How much Adamantine is in a Warforged Titan? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How much Adamantine is in a Warforged Titan? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ImmortalBlueMage
04-19-06, 04:26 PM I need to know because my players killed one and now they want to strip off it's composite plating, haul it all back to civilization, and sell it off. Thing is, the ECS doesn't even tell you how much a Titan weighs all materials put together, so it's hard to guess what the haul would be adamantine-wise. Any estimates?
Joni-san
04-19-06, 04:41 PM The Dragonshard, Warforged, part one (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050627a), has a line about parts of 'forged separated from the body 'decomposing' and I guess if we go by the intent of the article this could apply to the Titans.
Bluebrush
04-19-06, 05:19 PM Another thing to bear in mind:

The cost of adamantine items may not reflect the value of adamantine itself. Whether a pixie's dagger or a titan's maul, adamantine weaponry costs a flat 3000gp extra.

Instead it may reflect the rarity and skill involved in forging it. Take ice sculptures as another example. You can get ice pretty easily, but it takes an artist to make a half decent statue of Jonathan Frakes out of the stuff.

So basically, however much adamantine the players drag out of the titan (and whether it's in a easily portable or retreavable form or not) it may turn out to be worth less than they expect.
Kid SixXx
04-19-06, 06:37 PM Composite Plating would tend to imply that the adamantine is part of an alloy made with other metals. Pretty much the same principle as the WF Body feats: there are just enough traces of the special metal in the alloy to make the plating better than run of the mill composite plating.

It should be useless as a pure source of adamantine, especially if you use the alternate "once forged" rules for adamantine (ie. once it's molded, it cannot be shaped into anything else.)

That being said, it should not stop you from letting him sell the titan for scrap & you as DM deciding what the plating is worth.

House Cannith might pay handsomely for the plating.... so's they can secretly figure out how to build better WF Titans.
Subedei
04-19-06, 08:44 PM In my games all adamantine items are actually alloys of adamant ore (which isn't terribly hard or strong in it's natural state. So you've got something that's more like 93% iron, 4% carbon, 2% adamant, 1% misc that composes that 20 hardness item. Naturally occuring adamant ore has a few minor magical properties and is closer to quartz in hardness though it's not quite as brittle.

So you start off with the ore and depending on its purity you can refine it into a small percent of its original volume/mass of pure adamant. To say, alloy it with steel to create an extremely hard and strong sword with 2% adamant content one would need to consume several times that 2% in adamant to arrive at the finished product. At this point it's extremely difficult if not impossible to get that small amount of adamant out of the adamantine item in order to make a new one, melting it down would destroy it so it's pretty much pointless to try and reforge the item, especially considering it'd likely cost far more than the adamant is worth.
Edymnion
04-19-06, 09:20 PM I'll just say that characters in my game that try to strip plating off of WF and sell it in town get the same reaction they would for stripping the skin off of an elf and trying to sell it to the town leatherworker.

You murdered a sentient creature, you skinned it's carcass like an animal, and now you are trying to sell off it's dead body parts. That is a very Evil act, and you would very likely get hauled in for questioning if not outright jailtime for trying it.
JulesCARV
04-19-06, 09:50 PM I say that if you can't loot your fallen enemy's corpses without questioning, you're not playing D&D anymore. I mean, playing D&D where people think you're a psycho for looting enemy corpses is like playing D&D where there's no magic missile.

That said, Joni-san is right: according Keith Baker, warforged decay into unusable scrapheaps after death.
Raziel_Brokodar
04-19-06, 09:55 PM I say that if you can't loot your fallen enemy's corpses without questioning, you're not playing D&D anymore. I mean, playing D&D where people think you're a psycho for looting enemy corpses is like playing D&D where there's no magic missile.

That said, Joni-san is right: according Keith Baker, warforged decay into unusable scrapheaps after death.
Joni-san is indeed correct... (I've always been refering people to that Dragonshard since it's initial release)

in your arguement I don't think stripping 'forged of their metals counts as 'looting' in the normal sense... what part of 'living construct' do people keep forgetting about?
Subedei
04-19-06, 09:55 PM I think it really depends on where you are and who you're talking to. A lot of people don't even view warforged as alive at all. While their official stance is clearly for equal rights I really doubt most authorities would deal with a warforged murder the same as say, the murder of a human. I also suspect a warforged criminal would recieve much stricter punishments.
Lokiyn
04-20-06, 12:24 AM Any estimates?

About a henway or so...
Talkkno
04-20-06, 12:25 AM I think it really depends on where you are and who you're talking to. A lot of people don't even view warforged as alive at all. While their official stance is clearly for equal rights I really doubt most authorities would deal with a warforged murder the same as say, the murder of a human. I also suspect a warforged criminal would recieve much stricter punishments.

That is a given what nation you are in.. as that would apply more often perhaps in Karrnath or Thrane, but not in Breland, as thats a given though.
ImmortalBlueMage
04-20-06, 02:18 AM You murdered a sentient creature, you skinned it's carcass like an animal, and now you are trying to sell off it's dead body parts. That is a very Evil act, and you would very likely get hauled in for questioning if not outright jailtime for trying it.

For a normal Warforged I'd agree, but a Titan can hardly be called sentient, this is a creature that could get outsmarted by an Otyugh. Most Titans are barely more than animals.

I wasn't aware of the "Warforged decay" factor but it looks my players are out of luck. They'll have to content themselves with the unusually large and glittery treasure I gave them for offing the big baddy.
Kid SixXx
04-20-06, 09:36 AM For a normal Warforged I'd agree, but a Titan can hardly be called sentient.

That and normal WF are lawful citizens protected by the Treaty of Thronehold , while a WF Titan is pretty much a walking siege engine and a danger to society if it goes haywire.
(Psi)SeveredHead
04-20-06, 10:14 AM If you were to do that in, say, Thrane, some very angry warforged with "time off" would have something to say about that. Make 'em an adventuring-style party, so a WF (Scout) rogue, an adamantium body fighter, a mithral body artificer, etc. If you're in a good mood, give them each a level equal to average party level -1. If you're in a bad mood (eg you warned your PCs beforehand), make it party level +1 or +2.
Vegepygmy
04-20-06, 12:05 PM I say that if you can't loot flay your fallen enemy's corpses without questioning, you're not playing D&D anymore. I mean, playing D&D where people think you're a psycho for looting flaying enemy corpses and selling their skins is like playing D&D where there's no magic missile.I'm going to have to disagree with you.
JulesCARV
04-20-06, 12:07 PM Okay. Let's say that a human bandit attacks you. He loses the fight, and is slain. His mouth is hanging open after his death, and you notice that there's a lot of gold where many of his teeth used to be. If you take his gold teeth, are you a psycho? (leaving aside the holocaust connotations)
JayDubya
04-20-06, 12:33 PM I think it really depends on where you are and who you're talking to. A lot of people don't even view warforged as alive at all. While their official stance is clearly for equal rights I really doubt most authorities would deal with a warforged murder the same as say, the murder of a human. I also suspect a warforged criminal would recieve much stricter punishments.

Thrane and Karrnath view all Warforged as indentured servants until they pay off their own purchase cost (and they're paid so little they'll be indentured servants for perpetuity). Everywhere else they're viewed as standard citizens.

Given the Treaty of Thronehold, you'd deal with possible murder charges no matter where you were, but depending upon where you are, you might also get fined by the state to pay back the remainder of the dead warforged's debt.

As for how much usable adamantine would you get out of a WF titan? None. It's all "fake adamantine," artificially created by a Greater Dragonmark of Making (Fabricate) and a Creation Forge. When the Warforged dies, the magic that holds the composite plating together goes *poof* and the materials degrade.
JulesCARV
04-20-06, 07:05 PM I was wondering -- any opinions on this item and special material?

Dragonhide Plate: This suit of full plate is made of dragonhide, rather than metal, so druids can wear it. It is otherwise identical to masterwork full plate.

No aura (nonmagical); Price 3,300 gp.

Dragonhide: Armorsmiths can work with the hides of dragons to produce armor or shields of masterwork quality. One dragon produces enough hide for a single suit of masterwork hide armor for a creature one size category smaller than the dragon. By selecting only choice scales and bits of hide, an armorsmith can produce one suit of masterwork banded mail for a creature two sizes smaller, one suit of masterwork half-plate for a creature three sizes smaller, or one masterwork breastplate or suit of full plate for a creature four sizes smaller. In each case, enough hide is available to produce a small or large masterwork shield in addition to the armor, provided that the dragon is Large or larger.

Because dragonhide armor isn’t made of metal, druids can wear it without penalty.

Dragonhide armor costs double what masterwork armor of that type ordinarily costs, but it takes no longer to make than ordinary armor of that type.

Dragonhide has 10 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 10.
Edymnion
04-20-06, 07:28 PM I was wondering -- any opinions on this item and special material?Yeah, its either not available in Eberron, or is exceedingly more expensive than listed. There simply aren't dragons in every corner of Khovaire that a dragon hunter could make a living off of.

And for the record, I count intentionally wearing the hide of any sentient creature to be an evil act, even dragon hide.
Esgay
04-20-06, 07:38 PM The question is does the treaty of thronehold grant freedon to all warforged? Regular, scouts, chargers and titans or just your vanilla warforged?
Personally I would see warforged chargers and titans as excempt from the treaty, after all, titans are barely smarter than animals, about as smart as very stupid magical beasts and practically constructs. Looting them would be no different that hauling an iron golem back to town to flog to the local blacksmith.
Looting the parts of warforged scouts and regular WF would be a little more sensitive as these are viewed as free beings with many of the same rights as other races, some people may have no qualms in buiying WF parts (some would have no problem with buying human remains) but it would be best not to freely advertise the fact that you have a dismembered WF about your person (as it would be a bad idea to display your fresh new human torso)
JulesCARV
04-20-06, 07:41 PM Of course, in Eberron, Dragonhide is probably strictly superceded by Darkleaf, which has many advantageous properties, and is legal for druids too.

Dragonhide would be pretty rare, both because not many people want it (why not get Darkleaf instead?), and it's difficult to supply. It would be interesting to have an evil druid enemy -- Child of Winter, maybe -- who establishes his evil badass image by wearing a Dragonhide Breastplate.

I would be reluctant to say it doesn't exist at all, because of the "if it's in the Core, it's in Eberron" rule-of-thumb.

Also, I've started a thread on the mature boards (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=625473) for a more general, "alignment" oriented thread on this matter, in case we're going too far afield from the Eberron setting and too far into the generic "alignment" stuff.

Then again, I'm the guy playing a vegan paladin of the Silver Flame who has recently acquired exotic weapon proficiency (whip) from taking a level of bard (with the devoted performer feat to legalize the paladin/bard multiclass), who's probably going to start looking around for a non-leather whip, so I'm not entirely unsympathetic to the view that the good guys shouldn't be rampantly killing, looting, and desecrating so that they can get more l33t items. :cool:

UPDATE: For more disturbing questions, check out these wondrous items:
Hand of Glory: This mummified human hand hangs by a leather cord around a character’s neck (taking up space as a magic necklace would). If a magic ring is placed on one of the fingers of the hand, the wearer benefits from the ring as if wearing it herself, and it does not count against her two-ring limit. The hand can wear only one ring at a time.

Even without a ring, the hand itself allows its wearer to use daylight and see invisibility each once per day.

Faint varied; CL 5th; Craft Wondrous Item, animate dead, daylight, detect invisibility; Price 8,000 gp;Weight 2 lb.

Hand of the Mage: This mummified elf hand hangs by a golden chain around a character’s neck (taking up space as a magic necklace would). It allows the wearer to utilize the spell mage hand at will.

Faint transmutation; CL 2nd; Craft Wondrous Item, mage hand; Price 900 gp;Weight 2 lb.
(Psi)SeveredHead
04-21-06, 11:27 AM Okay. Let's say that a human bandit attacks you. He loses the fight, and is slain. His mouth is hanging open after his death, and you notice that there's a lot of gold where many of his teeth used to be. If you take his gold teeth, are you a psycho? (leaving aside the holocaust connotations)

You killed him for a good reason, not for his gold teeth. Having said that, I think the gold merchant would recoil, as that's too good a reminder that you just killed someone. I say get them melted down first.

I think that's different from carting the corpse to the doctor for practice.

The whole scenario can be avoided, however, by following what Keith Baker says - the stuff basically dissolves, so the point is academic.
Bluebrush
04-21-06, 12:42 PM I think dragonhide could possibly be available in Eberron, but mostly restricted to the Serens.

Such items would be tribe heirlooms, with new suits being granted by a dragon patron for exceptional service as part of the draconic equivalent of a will. (Dragons would be concerned with what happens to their treasures after they die, just as humans would be, and while there may not be dragon lawyer offices dotting the landscape, they're bound to have some way to make arrangements.)

Consider wigs. Sure I'd be majorly annoyed if some guy jumped me with a razor and stole my lustrous locks, but if I sold my hair, or gave it to a shiny-headed friend in need I wouldn't mind as much.

Similarly, if I had a majorly good friend who was saving up skulls for some reason (http://www.angryflower.com/trying.html), I may be willing to leave him my head while the rest of my body is pushed out to sea in a flaming rowing boat for my budget viking funeral.
After all, I wouldn't be needing it.

Of course, the whole thing is just a suggestion, in addition to being a bit of a stretch.
And not an invitation to harvest my skull.
JulesCARV
04-21-06, 12:51 PM Well, I had assumed ImmortalBlueMage's player hadn't killed the Titan just to harvest its plating, but for some other reason. If he did, though, yeah, that's pretty evil. Pointless, too, since it all becomes useless after the titan dies.
Edymnion
04-22-06, 06:44 PM UPDATE: For more disturbing questions, check out these wondrous items:The various hands would actually make very good items for Areneal Elves. Just say they're hands from a Deathless. Even the well guarded Deathless must have occassional accidents that reduce their numbers (like tripping and falling down stairs), but the pieces of the body are still revered in much the same way real life pieces of saints are revered. Sure, Bob the Deathless may be well and truely dead now, but his hands were made into necklaces for worthy followers, and who knows what his other body parts got turned into.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ImmortalBlueMage 04-19-06, 04:26 PM	I need to know because my players killed one and now they want to strip off it's composite plating, haul it all back to civilization, and sell it off. Thing is, the ECS doesn't even tell you how much a Titan weighs all materials put together, so it's hard to guess what the haul would be adamantine-wise. Any estimates?
Joni-san 04-19-06, 04:41 PM	The Dragonshard, Warforged, part one (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050627a), has a line about parts of 'forged separated from the body 'decomposing' and I guess if we go by the intent of the article this could apply to the Titans.
Bluebrush 04-19-06, 05:19 PM	Another thing to bear in mind: The cost of adamantine items may not reflect the value of adamantine itself. Whether a pixie's dagger or a titan's maul, adamantine weaponry costs a flat 3000gp extra. Instead it may reflect the rarity and skill involved in forging it. Take ice sculptures as another example. You can get ice pretty easily, but it takes an artist to make a half decent statue of Jonathan Frakes out of the stuff. So basically, however much adamantine the players drag out of the titan (and whether it's in a easily portable or retreavable form or not) it may turn out to be worth less than they expect.
Kid SixXx 04-19-06, 06:37 PM	Composite Plating would tend to imply that the adamantine is part of an alloy made with other metals. Pretty much the same principle as the WF Body feats: there are just enough traces of the special metal in the alloy to make the plating better than run of the mill composite plating. It should be useless as a pure source of adamantine, especially if you use the alternate "once forged" rules for adamantine (ie. once it's molded, it cannot be shaped into anything else.) That being said, it should not stop you from letting him sell the titan for scrap & you as DM deciding what the plating is worth. House Cannith might pay handsomely for the plating.... so's they can secretly figure out how to build better WF Titans.
Subedei 04-19-06, 08:44 PM	In my games all adamantine items are actually alloys of adamant ore (which isn't terribly hard or strong in it's natural state. So you've got something that's more like 93% iron, 4% carbon, 2% adamant, 1% misc that composes that 20 hardness item. Naturally occuring adamant ore has a few minor magical properties and is closer to quartz in hardness though it's not quite as brittle. So you start off with the ore and depending on its purity you can refine it into a small percent of its original volume/mass of pure adamant. To say, alloy it with steel to create an extremely hard and strong sword with 2% adamant content one would need to consume several times that 2% in adamant to arrive at the finished product. At this point it's extremely difficult if not impossible to get that small amount of adamant out of the adamantine item in order to make a new one, melting it down would destroy it so it's pretty much pointless to try and reforge the item, especially considering it'd likely cost far more than the adamant is worth.
Edymnion 04-19-06, 09:20 PM	I'll just say that characters in my game that try to strip plating off of WF and sell it in town get the same reaction they would for stripping the skin off of an elf and trying to sell it to the town leatherworker. You murdered a sentient creature, you skinned it's carcass like an animal, and now you are trying to sell off it's dead body parts. That is a very Evil act, and you would very likely get hauled in for questioning if not outright jailtime for trying it.
JulesCARV 04-19-06, 09:50 PM	I say that if you can't loot your fallen enemy's corpses without questioning, you're not playing D&D anymore. I mean, playing D&D where people think you're a psycho for looting enemy corpses is like playing D&D where there's no magic missile. That said, Joni-san is right: according Keith Baker, warforged decay into unusable scrapheaps after death.
Raziel_Brokodar 04-19-06, 09:55 PM	I say that if you can't loot your fallen enemy's corpses without questioning, you're not playing D&D anymore. I mean, playing D&D where people think you're a psycho for looting enemy corpses is like playing D&D where there's no magic missile. That said, Joni-san is right: according Keith Baker, warforged decay into unusable scrapheaps after death. Joni-san is indeed correct... (I've always been refering people to that Dragonshard since it's initial release) in your arguement I don't think stripping 'forged of their metals counts as 'looting' in the normal sense... what part of 'living construct' do people keep forgetting about?
Subedei 04-19-06, 09:55 PM	I think it really depends on where you are and who you're talking to. A lot of people don't even view warforged as alive at all. While their official stance is clearly for equal rights I really doubt most authorities would deal with a warforged murder the same as say, the murder of a human. I also suspect a warforged criminal would recieve much stricter punishments.
Lokiyn 04-20-06, 12:24 AM	Any estimates? About a henway or so...
Talkkno 04-20-06, 12:25 AM	I think it really depends on where you are and who you're talking to. A lot of people don't even view warforged as alive at all. While their official stance is clearly for equal rights I really doubt most authorities would deal with a warforged murder the same as say, the murder of a human. I also suspect a warforged criminal would recieve much stricter punishments. That is a given what nation you are in.. as that would apply more often perhaps in Karrnath or Thrane, but not in Breland, as thats a given though.
ImmortalBlueMage 04-20-06, 02:18 AM	You murdered a sentient creature, you skinned it's carcass like an animal, and now you are trying to sell off it's dead body parts. That is a very Evil act, and you would very likely get hauled in for questioning if not outright jailtime for trying it. For a normal Warforged I'd agree, but a Titan can hardly be called sentient, this is a creature that could get outsmarted by an Otyugh. Most Titans are barely more than animals. I wasn't aware of the "Warforged decay" factor but it looks my players are out of luck. They'll have to content themselves with the unusually large and glittery treasure I gave them for offing the big baddy.
Kid SixXx 04-20-06, 09:36 AM	For a normal Warforged I'd agree, but a Titan can hardly be called sentient. That and normal WF are lawful citizens protected by the Treaty of Thronehold , while a WF Titan is pretty much a walking siege engine and a danger to society if it goes haywire.
(Psi)SeveredHead 04-20-06, 10:14 AM	If you were to do that in, say, Thrane, some very angry warforged with "time off" would have something to say about that. Make 'em an adventuring-style party, so a WF (Scout) rogue, an adamantium body fighter, a mithral body artificer, etc. If you're in a good mood, give them each a level equal to average party level -1. If you're in a bad mood (eg you warned your PCs beforehand), make it party level +1 or +2.
Vegepygmy 04-20-06, 12:05 PM	I say that if you can't loot flay your fallen enemy's corpses without questioning, you're not playing D&D anymore. I mean, playing D&D where people think you're a psycho for looting flaying enemy corpses and selling their skins is like playing D&D where there's no magic missile.I'm going to have to disagree with you.
JulesCARV 04-20-06, 12:07 PM	Okay. Let's say that a human bandit attacks you. He loses the fight, and is slain. His mouth is hanging open after his death, and you notice that there's a lot of gold where many of his teeth used to be. If you take his gold teeth, are you a psycho? (leaving aside the holocaust connotations)
JayDubya 04-20-06, 12:33 PM	I think it really depends on where you are and who you're talking to. A lot of people don't even view warforged as alive at all. While their official stance is clearly for equal rights I really doubt most authorities would deal with a warforged murder the same as say, the murder of a human. I also suspect a warforged criminal would recieve much stricter punishments. Thrane and Karrnath view all Warforged as indentured servants until they pay off their own purchase cost (and they're paid so little they'll be indentured servants for perpetuity). Everywhere else they're viewed as standard citizens. Given the Treaty of Thronehold, you'd deal with possible murder charges no matter where you were, but depending upon where you are, you might also get fined by the state to pay back the remainder of the dead warforged's debt. As for how much usable adamantine would you get out of a WF titan? None. It's all "fake adamantine," artificially created by a Greater Dragonmark of Making (Fabricate) and a Creation Forge. When the Warforged dies, the magic that holds the composite plating together goes poof and the materials degrade.
JulesCARV 04-20-06, 07:05 PM	I was wondering -- any opinions on this item and special material? Dragonhide Plate: This suit of full plate is made of dragonhide, rather than metal, so druids can wear it. It is otherwise identical to masterwork full plate. No aura (nonmagical); Price 3,300 gp. Dragonhide: Armorsmiths can work with the hides of dragons to produce armor or shields of masterwork quality. One dragon produces enough hide for a single suit of masterwork hide armor for a creature one size category smaller than the dragon. By selecting only choice scales and bits of hide, an armorsmith can produce one suit of masterwork banded mail for a creature two sizes smaller, one suit of masterwork half-plate for a creature three sizes smaller, or one masterwork breastplate or suit of full plate for a creature four sizes smaller. In each case, enough hide is available to produce a small or large masterwork shield in addition to the armor, provided that the dragon is Large or larger. Because dragonhide armor isn’t made of metal, druids can wear it without penalty. Dragonhide armor costs double what masterwork armor of that type ordinarily costs, but it takes no longer to make than ordinary armor of that type. Dragonhide has 10 hit points per inch of thickness and hardness 10.
Edymnion 04-20-06, 07:28 PM	I was wondering -- any opinions on this item and special material?Yeah, its either not available in Eberron, or is exceedingly more expensive than listed. There simply aren't dragons in every corner of Khovaire that a dragon hunter could make a living off of. And for the record, I count intentionally wearing the hide of any sentient creature to be an evil act, even dragon hide.
Esgay 04-20-06, 07:38 PM	The question is does the treaty of thronehold grant freedon to all warforged? Regular, scouts, chargers and titans or just your vanilla warforged? Personally I would see warforged chargers and titans as excempt from the treaty, after all, titans are barely smarter than animals, about as smart as very stupid magical beasts and practically constructs. Looting them would be no different that hauling an iron golem back to town to flog to the local blacksmith. Looting the parts of warforged scouts and regular WF would be a little more sensitive as these are viewed as free beings with many of the same rights as other races, some people may have no qualms in buiying WF parts (some would have no problem with buying human remains) but it would be best not to freely advertise the fact that you have a dismembered WF about your person (as it would be a bad idea to display your fresh new human torso)
JulesCARV 04-20-06, 07:41 PM	Of course, in Eberron, Dragonhide is probably strictly superceded by Darkleaf, which has many advantageous properties, and is legal for druids too. Dragonhide would be pretty rare, both because not many people want it (why not get Darkleaf instead?), and it's difficult to supply. It would be interesting to have an evil druid enemy -- Child of Winter, maybe -- who establishes his evil badass image by wearing a Dragonhide Breastplate. I would be reluctant to say it doesn't exist at all, because of the "if it's in the Core, it's in Eberron" rule-of-thumb. Also, I've started a thread on the mature boards (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=625473) for a more general, "alignment" oriented thread on this matter, in case we're going too far afield from the Eberron setting and too far into the generic "alignment" stuff. Then again, I'm the guy playing a vegan paladin of the Silver Flame who has recently acquired exotic weapon proficiency (whip) from taking a level of bard (with the devoted performer feat to legalize the paladin/bard multiclass), who's probably going to start looking around for a non-leather whip, so I'm not entirely unsympathetic to the view that the good guys shouldn't be rampantly killing, looting, and desecrating so that they can get more l33t items. :cool: UPDATE: For more disturbing questions, check out these wondrous items: Hand of Glory: This mummified human hand hangs by a leather cord around a character’s neck (taking up space as a magic necklace would). If a magic ring is placed on one of the fingers of the hand, the wearer benefits from the ring as if wearing it herself, and it does not count against her two-ring limit. The hand can wear only one ring at a time. Even without a ring, the hand itself allows its wearer to use daylight and see invisibility each once per day. Faint varied; CL 5th; Craft Wondrous Item, animate dead, daylight, detect invisibility; Price 8,000 gp;Weight 2 lb. Hand of the Mage: This mummified elf hand hangs by a golden chain around a character’s neck (taking up space as a magic necklace would). It allows the wearer to utilize the spell mage hand at will. Faint transmutation; CL 2nd; Craft Wondrous Item, mage hand; Price 900 gp;Weight 2 lb.
(Psi)SeveredHead 04-21-06, 11:27 AM	Okay. Let's say that a human bandit attacks you. He loses the fight, and is slain. His mouth is hanging open after his death, and you notice that there's a lot of gold where many of his teeth used to be. If you take his gold teeth, are you a psycho? (leaving aside the holocaust connotations) You killed him for a good reason, not for his gold teeth. Having said that, I think the gold merchant would recoil, as that's too good a reminder that you just killed someone. I say get them melted down first. I think that's different from carting the corpse to the doctor for practice. The whole scenario can be avoided, however, by following what Keith Baker says - the stuff basically dissolves, so the point is academic.
Bluebrush 04-21-06, 12:42 PM	I think dragonhide could possibly be available in Eberron, but mostly restricted to the Serens. Such items would be tribe heirlooms, with new suits being granted by a dragon patron for exceptional service as part of the draconic equivalent of a will. (Dragons would be concerned with what happens to their treasures after they die, just as humans would be, and while there may not be dragon lawyer offices dotting the landscape, they're bound to have some way to make arrangements.) Consider wigs. Sure I'd be majorly annoyed if some guy jumped me with a razor and stole my lustrous locks, but if I sold my hair, or gave it to a shiny-headed friend in need I wouldn't mind as much. Similarly, if I had a majorly good friend who was saving up skulls for some reason (http://www.angryflower.com/trying.html), I may be willing to leave him my head while the rest of my body is pushed out to sea in a flaming rowing boat for my budget viking funeral. After all, I wouldn't be needing it. Of course, the whole thing is just a suggestion, in addition to being a bit of a stretch. And not an invitation to harvest my skull.
JulesCARV 04-21-06, 12:51 PM	Well, I had assumed ImmortalBlueMage's player hadn't killed the Titan just to harvest its plating, but for some other reason. If he did, though, yeah, that's pretty evil. Pointless, too, since it all becomes useless after the titan dies.
Edymnion 04-22-06, 06:44 PM	UPDATE: For more disturbing questions, check out these wondrous items:The various hands would actually make very good items for Areneal Elves. Just say they're hands from a Deathless. Even the well guarded Deathless must have occassional accidents that reduce their numbers (like tripping and falling down stairs), but the pieces of the body are still revered in much the same way real life pieces of saints are revered. Sure, Bob the Deathless may be well and truely dead now, but his hands were made into necklaces for worthy followers, and who knows what his other body parts got turned into.