Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Charles Phipps 09-19-05, 06:22 PM	Okay, in the game, Boranal is dead and Parliament has "invited" the Riedrans to help maintain order in the transition from nobility to democracy. This is in preparation for Prime Minister's rather mad dream of himself as a returner of the glories of Galifar as a Republic. The Quori are coaxing him to prepare Breland to invade and annex Aundair or perhaps ally with Queen Aurala (the politics of the Quori will change at a drop of a hat to increase their power base) using a marriage of the now powerless Princess and Prince of the land against Thrane and Karrnath. Basically though, with the Riedrans in control of Breland...what exactly do they start doing?
a_psh 09-19-05, 06:55 PM	Making everyone docile and happy and not bringing a war down on their heads, I'd say. Much as they did before, letting Khorvaire fight amongst itself and trying to stay out of whatever happens. Pitting Thrane against Karrnath or Aundair against Thrane is probably the easiest choice, if they wanted to further weaken the governments by war. But the shouldn't join in openly, I think. This is based on the "massive turmoil in the material plane might lead to Wheel-turning turmoil in Dal Quor" idea, of course. Likewise, I don't think you'd suddenly see the Riedrans on every streetcorner or what have you. Just a few Inspired advisors here and there. Very low-key. One silver-tongue telepath is worth 100 troops when it comes to crowd control.
Charles Phipps 09-19-05, 07:25 PM	I...totally disagree. Obviously the first thing to do is start public executions, stockades, burning down dens of debauchery, and also rounding up people at night. Making use of Khovaire's education and using severe censorship with massive book burnings are all things that fit the Riedran mindset. Khovaire is a den of filth after all and the cleaning up of it is a paramount importance. Remember, this isn't going to be the Dreaming Dark alone but the Riedrans who no doubt will be utterly repulsed by the way humans live in the land. They have to be "civilized" The important thing to remember is that it's not enough that you are conquered, you must ACT WITH THE PURVIEW OF THE PARTY. The Quori may want to stop the turning of the Wheel but I point out that you don't do that by allowing people to act like adventurers and crimminals. You prohibit the alcohol and other problems that lead to chaos and disorder. You institute feelings of shame for the sinful sexual and other deviances. The Quori will win the hearts of the people but selling essentially their advantage and not IMPROVING the lives of visitors seems to be a bit unrealistic and underplaying their strength. I liken it to Faramir and his gurellia war against Mordor. It did pretty much zilch. Boramir, while less conservative, won where Faramir didn't. Sometimes you need to be direct and subtle manipulations do diddly.
Thrincold 09-19-05, 07:46 PM	If we're going with a thrird reich style propaganda, you need a scapegoat. It makes it so much easier for people to swallow a bunch of crap if it is doaled out as the fault of another party not the government. I'd say the Kalastar, but they are too small a group for that to work. Try Flamers for jews. The church is rich, influintial and corrupt. Everything you need. Now have quite a few moneylenders be flamers and there you go. The sheep, sorry excuse me, masses of humanity will do anything you tell them to do, you just have to convince them its for their own good, and anything bad that comes out of it is someones fault. Adventurers could be hired on either side. The good of country to covertly capture and eliminate threats to the new government SS style. Or against the NBG (New Brelish Gov't) as freedom fighters. Think of what would happen in places like Sharn also, I see it breaking away to make its own city-state if it can.
a_psh 09-19-05, 08:23 PM	You don't destroy. You don't burn. You don't limit. You don't do anything. You sit there and let the people of Breland do it for you. The problem is that Breland is one of the most free and happy nations, so it's hard to get the Brelish to accept a rigid society. The quori took their sweet time with Sarlona, after all... I'm thinking give them so much democracy that they choke on it. Let people get all the freedoms that the Parliament and the Swords of Liberty and the radicals and whoever else have been gushing about. Let them decide everything. Then manipulate them. Manipulate them into pure majority-rules democracy, where anything that isn't embraced by 51% of the population is wrong. Or manipulate them into self-desctructive anarchy, wait for a few years, and let them beg you to lead them. Take on a very limited role in the government: stand there with the new Prime Minister or whoever in a 110% passive advisory role and watch as disastrous policies are enacted, or at the very least make sure that hundreds of people all have veto power over anything you propose. Then, when everything has gone to the dogs, wash your hands of the whole affair and say you tried to help Breland but that your hands were tied by the stupid system and start packing your bags. The people will cry out for you to stay and lead them. (This is taking a page from the Ivan the Terrible playbook, which, aside from the chapter on killing your son in a fit of rage, is pretty solid stuff.)
TheRedRobedWizard 09-19-05, 08:33 PM	Well, in my campaigns, the Inspired are like the Big Brother-types. Thought Police, Victory Gin, proles, the whole lot of em. They walk in, they take over. Everyone is made docile through the dream manipulation of the Dreaming Dark. Everything is good, nothing is wrong. Breland goes from a den of deubachery to a model civilization. Thrane, in typical overzealous douchebag fashion, thinks that its their time to make a move on Breland. Karnnath takes the opportunity to move in on Thrane whilst their main army is out subjugating Breland. Aundair reclaims/annexes the Eldeen reaches, citing some kind of "stronger together than apart, for the good of the people" thing. The Valenar use this new opening to ride in Mongol style and slaughter the populace of Karnnath wholesale, leaving only a few fortifications unscathed. Thrane pulls its forces out of Breland, attacking Karnnath, finding that it has already been decimated and takes up custody of the broken nation. Aundair fears for its sovreignty and attacks Thrane. The Eldeen rebel again, with the Children of Winter at the forefront, bringing an Eldritch Machine driven winter into Aundair, killing most of the populace. Within three months, almost half of Khorvaire's population is dead, the other half is rather shaken and mainly displaced from their homes. This does not serve the Dreaming Dark goals very well, as they want docile cattle to harvest, not screaming masses that will fervently cling to the last vestiges of their homeland. In short, invading Breland (without first securing lackies all over Khorvaire) would be the worst thing they could do. Training the Valenar and the entirety of Houses Denieth and Lyrandar in the psionic arts THEN taking over Breland would work much better. Order is maintained, the Valenar act as the new elite guard of the Inspired on Khorvaire, and all goes according to plan. The combined might of the other nations could not stop the combined might of Breland, Valenar, House Denieth, House Lyrandar, and the Inspired. -TRRW
Charles Phipps 09-19-05, 08:40 PM	Well the key point to realize in this is the whole invasion is going to be a massive defeat for the Quori. DMs always should presuppose the fall of the Evil Overlord. In Riedra's case, the Empire is dealt a crushing blow. Part of the problem I see in these suggestions is that it defeats the whole purpose of using Riedra. This is not about a shadowy secret society of demons (That's the Lords of Dust) this is about a "V" style invasion where friends turn out to be conquerors. Yes, the Quori are afraid of disrupting things but they aren't going to make any progress by forwarding the goals of other people alone. Khovaire IS weak enough to move already...at least with the aid of one or more of her sister nations. That's what the Great War was FOR. Sometimes, I keep thinking that the readers on the board don't EXPECT the Pcs to ultimately triumph over the Dreaming Dark (which they obviously will because the heroes win the end in any well run campaign)
TheRedRobedWizard 09-19-05, 08:44 PM	The Dreaming Dark is not a quantifyable opponent, as such it cannot be truely defeated short of going to Dal'Quor and killing them all in their physical manifestations. They can be slowed down, they can be crippled, but they cannot be stopped. -TRRW
Charles Phipps 09-19-05, 08:46 PM	The Dreaming Dark is not a quantifyable opponent, as such it cannot be truely defeated short of going to Dal'Quor and killing them all in their physical manifestations. They can be slowed down, they can be crippled, but they cannot be stopped. -TRRW The Dreaming Dark is quantifiable in the sense they are villains. Whether it's because of Stormbringer sucking their souls up and eating them, being bound by Dragon Magic, or simply all of humanity turning against them....the fact remains that when they are the opponents of a campaign...events will align so the PCs are able to grind them to dust. It's like Sauron or Morgoth, there's no way in Hell they can be beaten yet the forces of story makes sure they will perish. That's how these things work. It's how Eberron works. The Quori aren't the heroes, the PCs are. Even if its in the context they will bring the next age, the Quori's mission (which is ridiculous and doomed to failure) is destined to fail I would argue...even without the PCs. You can't stop change and no matter how they backstab and slash...they're grasping at straws.
TheRedRobedWizard 09-19-05, 08:54 PM	I guess I just like my Eberron a bit more Cthulhu-y. The DD isn't a direct opponent to the PCs, because they're way-the-crap over in Reidra. They stay over there, save for a few sleeper agents and diplomats on mainland Khorvaire. Their plans are several hundreds, if not thousands, of years off. The pieces to form the base of their plans are just now being put together. Of course, Reidra/The DD aren't the main enemy in my campaign (that spot is reserved for Miss d'Vol) so YMMV. And now, back to your regularly scheduled thread, already in progress. -TRRW
Charles Phipps 09-19-05, 09:03 PM	Oh don't get me wrong Red Robed Wizard, you're quite correct in your interpretation. The Dreaming Dark under any and all normal circumstances are a group that should slowly but surely take over the world. If I have an opinion that they aren't going to suceed in their goal, it's mainly because humanity is a bit player in the Drama of the coming of the next age. The LoD, the Dragons, the Gods (if they exist), the Daelkyr, and the like are all beyond the Quori's power and wrenchs that the Quori cannot manipulate. What I'm simply pointing out is the fact that the Riedrans are the direct enemies in this respect and barring gross mistake by the PCs, going to lose. The PCs might beat Riedra and never suspect the Quori's existence However....it's not good to presuppose PC failure in a game of Pulp heroism.
Siran Dunmorgan 09-19-05, 09:56 PM	I...totally disagree. Obviously the first thing to do is start public executions, stockades, burning down dens of debauchery, and also rounding up people at night. Making use of Khovaire's education and using severe censorship with massive book burnings are all things that fit the Riedran mindset.Honestly, I don't think this is the first thing to do. Before you can start a campaign of persecution, you have to declare someone to persecute. In Riedra, it was kalahstar, lycanthropes, and arcane magic-users. To that list in Khorvaire will be added the dragonmarked houses. The Houses make a perfect target for the Inspired: they were certainly the only ones to come through the Last War with their fortunes relatively intact, and their production of magebred animals and warforged will raise more than a few suspicions, as does their ability to monitor Khorvaire-wide communications. In this scenario, their exclusivity, their monopoly, will weigh against them in the popular mind. The principal opposition to Riedra in this scenario is not the Houses themselves: they'll start on the defensive and never really regain the initiative, even the shadow Houses, Phiarlan and Thuranni, though they're in the best position to see what's happening. The Gatekeepers, whose job it actually is to defend Eberron from exactly this sort of attack, may not realize that an attack is underway until too late, and there are far too few Gatekeepers remaining to deal with it. No... the first line of defense against Riedra will be Zilargo, and the agents of the Trust. They'll be the first to put all of the pieces together, and see what's actually happening. They'll be the ones on the streets, subtly influencing the direction of music, comedy, the news, all the other unnoticed sources from which people derive their supposedly objective opinions. They'll be the ones to notice the disappearances in the night. They'll be the ones to correlate timetables, and the idea that this person suddenly took on the mannerisms of that person, half a continent away, when a Quori switches hosts for a few days. They'll be the ones to notice the changes in behavior that point to a mind seeded victim of the Riedran campaign. The only question is whether they'll be in a position to do anything about it once they figure it out. They aren't like elves, or thri-kreen, or warforged: the gnomes have to sleep sometime. And the quori are very, very, patient. —Siran Dunmorgan
Jeffersonian000 09-19-05, 10:30 PM	I'm running a game with a recurring Riedran villain. As the game is Magic/Psionic transparent, and I love juxtaposition, it's also very pulp-noir. We're talking post-WWII action serial style game play. It started with murder at the lightning rail station in Tavick's Landing, with a young woman in Riedran robes as the prime suspect who fought four 8th level war veterans to a near stand still before getting away. Then the character find out their patron may be a vampire. And the Riedran mystery women returned, and got away. After that one session, we've explored Sharns underworld, its ethnic diversity, intra-house politics, shifter sports, wars secrets and spycraft, religion ... all tied in some way to the Riedran embassy. Its not that the Riedrans are actually doing anything at all, its just that I've insinuated them into almost every shadow. Not everything leads to the Riedrans, which just keeps the players thinking that their missing something. And that is were the evil lies. Not in what Riedrans are doing, but what the players think the Riedrans are doing. :) SJ