Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Charles Phipps 08-28-05, 01:57 PM	This is a thread that's of course inspired by Edymnion's own thread about how to run the Dreaming Dark. I feel that a moment is needed to talk about the Rakashasa lords. They deserve some credit where credit is do. The Lords of Dust, at heart, are much the same as Dragons and one cannot talk about one without talking about the other. Whereas the Quori use power politics and play games with human's brains, the Lords of Dust are a group that plays with the very nature of the fabric of the universe itself. Their lifespans stretch back to the very dawn of Eberron civilization and quite possibly well beyond that. They wield as much power as their archfoes from the First Age and likely stretch well into the power that shattered Dal Quora from Eberron or bound the Daelkyr in the first place. Many Rakashasa nobility are likely epic levels and their leadership would not be terribly out of character if it was in the area of thirty levels of so (20th level illusionist and 12th level Priest was the original stats after all for a Caliph). The first question is, you are no doubt asking, if they are so ungawdly powerful then why haven't they destroyed Khovaire? At heart, I don't imagine that the Lords of Dust are particularly interested in humanity at all. They saw the rise of the Giants of Xen'drick and the Goblin Empire and both were more interesting civilizations than Khovaire is to them currently. While a rare few rogue Lords of Dust might have an unusually high interest in the "insignificant fleas", the majority of them could care less who sits on the throne of Galifar or how much gold lines the purse of a potentate. They probably made the Demon Wastes just so they could operate undisturbed. The Lords of Dust fight an elaborate chess game with the Dragons of Argonessan that is best likened to the Cold War. Collectively, The Lords of Dust and the Dragons could both destroy Eberron totally if they placed their power together against the forces of the other directly. Humanity, Goblins, Elves, and possibly the whole of the planet would be shattered likely in the resulting conflaguration. While it is not confirmed that they were the party behind the creation of the Mournland, it's creation would not be an exercise of much of their power. Neither wants to tip their hand that badly and both want to make sure that they triumph in the end with no causalties. There ARE warhawks though on both sides and the PCs might be forced to track down a Lord of Dust for the greater body of the organization so he doesn't begin a war that makes the Great War look like a squirt gun fight. Lords of Dust plans are not as specific as the plans of the Dreaming Dark, not because they have trouble understanding the human psyche. Eat, Release, Sex, Protection against environment, Protection of young, and pretensions that they are doing all they do for reasons other than this. Their plans largely have no need for specific human beings. The 12 adventure plot to bring about the "Age of Worms" is a typical example of a Lord of Dust plot. Another plot that might be disturbing would be to channel the power of human worship into the Rajahs. Thus, the Rakashasas set up the religion of the Sovereign Host. You can't fight against the 'evil' involvement of the Rakashasas because aside from the founding, they don't need to involve themselves since humans will carry out the work for them from that point. The exception to their plots that do things that human beings could not possibly fathom the importance of, like severing a moon of Eberron from it's orbit to totally alter all magical spells on the planet but those the Rakashasa practice, are the one's that are by their nature the most blatant in the releasing of their masters in the Overlords. It is a source of perpetual irritation for them that the Dragons of Argonessan have done their best to keep watch over the sleeping gods. It's difficult to comprehend if it's even POSSIBLE to free the Rajahs but there's many a religious fanatic amongst their kind who'd like to try. It's even possible that there are several awake and active in the Demon Wastes...or perhaps the giant crystal cliffs of the Mournland is one. It is wrong to assume that the Lords of Dust are going to fail always in these quests. Most ages did not have the power of beings like the PCs. When dealing with a Lord of Dust directly, rare as this occasion might be, there will be rarely an attempt at deception. The Lords of Dust are masters of illusion, deception, and lies but that is contrasted with their overwhelming arrogance and that they only are able to subdue their pride for their 'Mission.' The Lords of Dust, bluntly, consider themselves gods and expect to be treated with the same awe and reverence that you might treat the sudden appearence of Wee Jas or Hextor in your midst. Many a tale of the Traveller or the relevative knowledge of the Lords of Dust is from their occasional ego indulgences where they appear to a mortal and for sheer amusement value, change that entire mortals' life for the better with granted wishes like Faust and Mestipholes...or just start a war. Lords of Dust consider themselves to also have a form of honor and while they certainly don't think that human beings could possibly understand or appreciate their code (insignificant fleas that they are), they largely will honor whatever agreements they make that are by the oaths that are important to them. If a Lord of Dust promised a fortune in gems, a castle, and a magic steed, that's a half hour's work. The Lord's needs are different than mans. A few acknowledge that a few rare humans are of interest and some take them back to become eternally young and beautiful pets in their homeland. Though the Lords of Dust might be responsible for the Daelkyr and the arrival of the Quori on Eberron, both having destroyed the civilizations of which might have been starting to become dangerous, they do not particularly care for said beings. The Lords of Dust supported the gatekeepers binding of the Madness Lords in Khyber, in a bit of irony, and watch the Quori's attempt to manipulate humans with the same feeling that you might watch a child try to teach a dog tricks. They consider both races beneath them (though more in terms of you might think of a hillbilly or child to a sophisticate) and believe that the Daelkyr's destruction of worlds is needlessly wasteful and the Quori fail to comprehend that humanity will not be the turners of the next age but them (or at least so they believe, some Rakashasas have enough experience to know that humanity occasionally produces men almost as worthy as they are). This is the Lords of Dust in a nutshell.
Rechan 08-28-05, 03:03 PM	A lot of this has me confused primarily because, if their plots are unfathonable, and they have no use or interest in mortals, then what are their plots? Or rather, what are they doing that PCs can get in the middle of? Would the PCs interrupt one of their maneuvers to remove a key individual/place/resource of the Dragons in Khorvaire? Would the LoD try to start a war so that their "insignificant fleas" that are getting too close would get sucked into the conflict? Would they try to counter the Quori's plans for the same reason you would take the toys away from a child? Might they try to unleash another great force to shatter Khorvaire if it's getting a little too dangerous? (A fourth supernatural powergroup - yikes!) As you say, they still need mortal vassals as there may be some things they need to free the Rajash that the rakshasas cannot get. Perhaps some things are warded against fiends, or evil beings, or need someone pure of heart to claim/use/etc.
Charles Phipps 08-28-05, 03:49 PM	Touche Rechan...you touch on a big part I missed. I suppose that the best thing to think of Lord of Dust plots is a bit of a primer. 1. It's got to be big The Lords of Dust don't settle for things that can be accomplished from the local grocery store. They move the planet's rotation and trigger an eternal ice age, they attempt to flood a continent, they attempt to create a landbridge to Sarlona, they split Valenar from the land, and they attempt to move a 10,000,000 pound block of Khyber Shard from the planet core into the middle of Droam. They don't have to do things that necessarily destroy the world but they should have huge and lasting physical affects on the campaign world. Things like a new manifest zone like the one in Shard or a massive crater/opener to Khyber and thousands of demons poured forth from Shalvaresh are typical things. 2. It's going to be something that is largely going to be unrelated to Politics or human concerns if it's a plot of the Lords of Dust as a whole The Lords of Dust view magic, the continents, dragons, genies, Daelkyr, the Rajahs, and fellow demons/angels as eternal and thus worth noticing. A powerful Lich like D'vol or other immortal entity might bear noticing and dealing with on a level that could be considered "new money" but that's being extremely generous. The vast majority of Lords of Dust incidents will be effecting humanity by side effect rather than intent. If they, for whatever reason, want to harvest all the lifeforce of Thrane for a gigantic machine of some kind then they're barely considering the human beings as anything other than batteries for this purpose. Humans are a means, not an end. 3. Conversely, Lords of Dust do things related to Eberron kingdoms on their lunchbreak In the Ravenloft novel Shadowborne, it talks about how the demon Ebonbane arranged a massive crusade against the Muslim and Christian equivalents of his homeland that consumed tens of thousands of lives and caused everything from demon worship to terrifying massive magical conflagurations. Ebonbane then causally informed the characters that it wasn't part of a master plan, it was largely a diverstisement. Just as the Quori are 'playing' with humans, some Rakashasas view the lesser races with the same view as you have an antfarm or wargaming. If the Pc's stop a plot of the Lords of Dust to cause the warforged to take over Breland and manufacture a Robot nation, it's as likely as not that there is no master plan and the particular Lord did it because he had some time off and bet another Lord of Dust he could do it. 4. The full wrath of the Lords of Dust are extremely difficult to bring down on the party's heads This may be surprising but even if a PC manages to slay a Lord of Dust, the majority of the group will consider the Pc's more akin to a tiger than a rebel (and some will think of it more like the Rakahasa victim died of the equivalent of an allergy to a bee sting). I.e. it was more the Rakahasa's fault for his 'big game hunting' than any particular action of the pCs. Even elvish PCs will die in the equivalent of a blink of an eye as far as Rakahasas are concerned and most are content to wait out so called "heroes" or simply pay them no mind, even if they are "the avowed enemies of all Rakashasas." Their arrogance is appalling, even with all their power. This extends even to other kinds of beings. The Rakashasas largely don't interfere with the Quori in their manipulation of human kind because they consider the idea of controlling human society to be a bizarre hobby rather than something important. Thus the Dreaming Dark is free to meddle in human affairs so long as it affects none of their activity. It might change considerably were they to somehow cross Rakashasa honor in some manner or they ever thought the Quori would try and prevent their raising of the Rajahs. Humanity would be unlikely to survive the conflaguration of a direct assault but the Lords of Dust just might as easily craft weapons for human beings that imprison Quori or immunize humans to said possession as a "lesson." The oddest fact likely is if the PCs DO make themselves somehow powerful enough to warrant the LoD's undivided attention, they may find themselves trucked with by the LoD with honor and tribute as much as enemies. The Rakahasas are very civilized people and though they hate Dragons and their ilk, they wage war in a very different way than others. 5. Their minions are very memorable The Rakahasas tend to let humans and other 'pack animals' handle what they need to be done with a slight bit of prodding but the Rakashasas are just as likely to create their own minions when they need them out of illusions turned reality or similiar reality bending magics. This isn't to say that they will create a Tarrasque (though certainly such a creature might be an example of Rakahasas magic) but they might command a legion of their own kind that spellbinds whatever's necessary, animates the ground with flocks of elementals, and raise vast armies of evil. In microism the PC's might find the least Lord of Dust out on his own business could become his own minature Sauron. 6. Their reasons don't have to be immediately perceptible Why DO they want a split continent of Khovaire? It could be because it's necessary for a gigantic magical ritual that will allow all the Overlords to awaken in 10,000 years with the erosion of soil against the spells binding them. Another reason could be is that one of their Caliphs is tired of the view of the continent he already has and has paid whatever coin the LoD use to get the others to go along with him changing it. This very lack of concern towards the lesser races is what's so frightening about them. 7. The Dragons may involve themselves in a minute way...or they may not As stated, the Dragons are the chief obstacles to LoD plans and they both know that it's a nuclear holocaust and then some if there's outright war. That means that most dragons will be opposed to the spread of LoD power and their achievements but won't wield their full power in such. In many ways, Khovaire and Sarlona might be the place for Vietnams. Both support one side or another but leave themselves out of it. 8. Khovaire is on the verge of being noticible Just to give DM's a bit more room, it's not yet noticible like the Giants or the Goblins but it's coming close. 9. Some plots are very noticible. Some are not Unlike the Dreaming Dark, the Rakahasa may cloak himself with illusions and start a vast network of masonically constructed castles for raising his Dark Lord into the world....or he might just causally appear and enslave people to do it pubically. It depends on the personality. 10. They're all evil masterminds who know the TRUTH about the world It's possible to point out that the Rakashasas all know the truth of Eberron's many mysteries....the problem is they're just as likely (and more so) to lie as to share.
Kid SixXx 08-28-05, 03:52 PM	A lot of this has me confused primarily because, if their plots are unfathonable, and they have no use or interest in mortals, then what are their plots? Or rather, what are they doing that PCs can get in the middle of? Like Charles said, the Lords of Dust don't tend to do anything the easy way. Most likely the PC's will be shocked to find out that in their confrontations with the Lords of Dust, they will soon realize that the "lesser races" of Eberron aren't even the targets of their schemes in most cases. We're just.. collateral damage... if you will.. If there is some grand scheme which affects Khorvaire, it is more than likely the result of a bored Lord of Dust having a bit of fun than it would be the result of a serious plan. The Lords of Dust have better things to do than trifle with mortals, but if we make a nuisance of ourselves we will get the unwanted attention we seek.
Charles Phipps 08-28-05, 04:31 PM	Like Charles said, the Lords of Dust don't tend to do anything the easy way. Most likely the PC's will be shocked to find out that in their confrontations with the Lords of Dust, they will soon realize that the "lesser races" of Eberron aren't even the targets of their schemes in most cases. We're just.. collateral damage... if you will.. If there is some grand scheme which affects Khorvaire, it is more than likely the result of a bored Lord of Dust having a bit of fun than it would be the result of a serious plan. The Lords of Dust have better things to do than trifle with mortals, but if we make a nuisance of ourselves we will get the unwanted attention we seek. Exactly what I wanted to get across. I've only had one encounter with a LoD in game that wasn't epic confrontation The PC's were invited into it's home and I played the creature bizarrely. He wore a fez, silk pajamas, and slippers and rang a little bell to summon his Unseen Servitors as his museum was filled with portraits that contained the imprisoned souls of two armies ever reinacting their battle, the talking head of a Lich King, and a zoo of powerful figures he had ressurected and stuck in perpetually altering illusions to make them think they were in the real world doing glorious deeds. He wanted the PCs to give a strand of hair from each one to clone himself one of them for his collection. It was a group that wasn't too bright and I never got to tell them that they were the clones and he still had the originals in his zoo.
a_psh 08-28-05, 04:32 PM	Yes, there is a sort of cold war, but Khorvaire and the mortals are the battleground. As such, both the Lords of Dust and the Chamber spend a lot of time manipulating the humanoid races, and a heck of a lot of time among them in disguise. A rakshasa can literally spend a lifetime disguised as a mere mortal, all for the sake of accomplishing one thing at one perfect moment (and, given that, short of the dragons themselves, they probably know the most about the Prophecy, and they really like to upset the dragons' plans, they're good at finding those perfect moments). And, yes, there is arrogance and vanity - this is why the rakshasa use human agents, such as the "brothers" in the Aundarian embassy in Sharn or the dust-stuffed creatures mentioned in the Explorer's Handbook,to accomplish the more trivial or demeaning tasks at times, - but the rakshasa aren't stupid. They definitely don't go out of their way to reveal themselves to mortals just for the sake of a little boot-licking and groveling. And I disagree with the bit about not understanding human emotion. The existence of every single member of the Lords of Dust is defined by jealousy and nostalgia the likes of which no human will ever know, for one. More importantly, their goals necessitate a keen understanding of mankind's greater vulnerabilities: I don't think there's anything about lust, avarice, or fear that a rakshasa doesn't know. And I wouldn't put love entirely past them just because they're evil, either. Now, it's true that they don't experience things the same way that a human or orc does, but I think they definitely understand people very, very well. Some of the stuff in the original post seems to be completely out of left field to me... the Lords of Dust supported the Gatekeepers binding the daelkyr? How do we know that? Are we sure the rakshasa think of quori as merely children beneath their notice?
Charles Phipps 08-28-05, 04:36 PM	Some of the stuff in the original post seems to be completely out of left field to me... the Lords of Dust supported the Gatekeepers binding the daelkyr? How do we know that? Are we sure the rakshasa think of quori as merely children beneath their notice? Those are just "most likelys" on my part from reading what I've read about them. Also, I personally tend to think that if you understand sex, food, and pecking order then you really do need to know all you need to about humans :D
a_psh 08-28-05, 05:34 PM	Misread there being a negative in the statement when there wasn't one... You may wish to flag the definite statements and the speculation a bit more clearly.
Charles Phipps 08-28-05, 05:51 PM	Misread there being a negative in the statement when there wasn't one... You may wish to flag the definite statements and the speculation a bit more clearly. Noted. It's a good idea to consider most of my work speculation due to the undetailed nature of the Lords of Dust. However, this was a serious attempt to extrapolate everything to cannon and not attempt to make things up randomly. I don't believe they'd treat the Quori as anything but children and fools for their games.
aelryinth 08-28-05, 06:52 PM	The rise of paladins and the Church of the Silver Flame would definitely make mortals noticeable by even the densest Rajah. Consider that mortals can add their Souls to the bindings of the Silver Flame now. This means that the bindings won't go weaker over time...with potentially unlimited amounts of mortal souls, they'll just get stronger and stronger... While individual mortals might be unworthy of notice, the Lords of Dust probably spend a good deal of subtle effort on slowing down the efforts of the Church of the Silver Flame JUST to slow the growth of the binding force while they search for a solution. Individual mortals might be ants, but as a whole, mortals are an army of killer ants that could eat the whole of the Lords of Dust whole, given time. ==Aelryinth
Charles Phipps 08-28-05, 06:54 PM	I never was certain if that was true or a myth in cannon re: the Silver Flame and joining the Coatl.
a_psh 08-28-05, 07:07 PM	Nonetheless, mortals have the power to use the Flame, making them a major threat to the fiends. While the orcs of the Labyrinth have stood watch over the Demon Wastes for thousands of years, humans and others are taking a much more aggressive approach to their religion, working hard to both seek out evil and find new believers. Overall, regardless of what you believe about souls, this has the power to strenghten the Silver Flame. You'll also note that a human paladin managed to bind a freed rajah, and that others (e.g. Brightspear from Keith's warforged article) have killed rakshasa impostors. Moreover, it is amid the humanoid races of Khorvaire that the true battle between fiend and dragon is waged. I think the Lords of Dust care about humans. I think they really, really care.
Edymnion 08-28-05, 07:49 PM	He wanted the PCs to give a strand of hair from each one to clone himself one of them for his collection. It was a group that wasn't too bright and I never got to tell them that they were the clones and he still had the originals in his zoo.Ha! Now *THAT* is the sort of thing that should have been in the BoVD! :D
Charles Phipps 08-28-05, 08:10 PM	Thank you. I just love the image of a Rakashasa being a Victorian Aristocrat with things like a trophy collection of heads. I still think that giving humans too much credit is a personal mistake on the part of people RPGing the Rakashasas. While they may recognize the potential and the danger of the people of Khovaire, at heart they've survived this long through far worse storms. Their enemies are, at heart, the Dragons and to them its probably likely Mirron is a one in a billion case or (like the Gatekeepers) had been manipulated by outside forces. It's a fatal flaw but one that's largely panned out. Even the Flame itself is a victory not a defeat. The Coatl are no more and the Lord of Dust probably have drinks about their destruction and swap stories about it still. It's only a small remnant of a once vast civilization.
aelryinth 08-28-05, 10:01 PM	Individuals are not a danger to the Rakshasa. The mere implication that they could fuel the Silver Flame and potentially end up binding ALL the rakshasa, not just the Rajahs, should make for a very nervous race of immortals, indeed. ==Aelryinth
Charles Phipps 08-28-05, 10:08 PM	Individuals are not a danger to the Rakshasa. The mere implication that they could fuel the Silver Flame and potentially end up binding ALL the rakshasa, not just the Rajahs, should make for a very nervous race of immortals, indeed. ==Aelryinth Then they'd just kill all humanity probably. The Lords of Dust have that power (barring PCs). It's not like they really have a use for them like the Quori who use us as a food source.
Manyfist 08-28-05, 10:52 PM	I say that the Rajahs found a way out of the flame, it wasn't a pretty way but it was the only way. They manifested them selves as mortals, as such the first mortals are actually really de-evolved Rakashasa Rajahs. The Bloodline sparks a bit when individuals change the coarse of History. Gailfar, and the PCs were/are amongst the strongest. The Rajahs have put one past all beings on Eberron. The Rakashasa's play with the Mortals unaware they're actually their Rajahs. Eventually the Rajahs will surpass their old existance, as Mortals with their ever changing ways mutate. As such Rakashasa's will become play things of mortals given time. :D
Gurv 08-28-05, 11:40 PM	This is a very long, and somewhat rambling description what the Lords of Dust are doing in respect to the group I DM. My players are currently on their way back to civilization from Ashtakala, where they just dealt with one of the Lords of Dust. A recap of various incidents leading to this gives an idea of the scope of their goals in my mind: The party is seeking a holy Grail, a relic devoted to Kol Korran, to defeat a curse caused by an unholy counterpart devoted to his brother, the Keeper (some may recognize this plot, and I thank whoever came up with the concept originally). Previously, the party had worked for the powerful seer Havakhad (S:CoT), and because of this association, the kalashtar leader agreed to use his powers to discern the location of the Grail. Unfortunately, the Grail was in Ashtakala, and the backlash of the ancient divination wards left poor Havakhad in a microcosm/coma, although his powers allowed him to survive in this fashion. Being PCs, they soon stole a device from the local Reidran embassy which allowed them to enter Havakhad's mind in hopes of waking him. While most of the party was caught in an ancient dream-battle between quori-spirits, one stumbled across a rakshasa. This Lord of Dust had not expected to become trapped in the psion's mind, but was not overly worried about it, and was taking advantage of the situation. He had captured the old psion's spirit already, and was willing to hand it over to the PC if the character made a deal with the fiend: the spirit would be returned, but the PC had to agree to a trade: one equal item in the rakshasa's possession would become the PC's, while another of equal value would become the rakshasa's. The only catch would be that the PC would not know what the trade had been. The player, knowing that they were otherwise in way over their heads, agreed to this seemingly favorable deal. Later, after returning to the real world with the knowledge of where the needed Grail lay (and the knowledge that they had saved Havakhad's soul from being captured by a Lord of Dust), they went to the Demon Wastes. After having their butts whipped several times by the locals, they reached the Storm Around Ashtakala. Their attempt to Shadow Walk through the Storm led to the separation of the party, with one PC ending inside the city and the others lost outside. The one inside found herself without her items, all having been replaced by accouterments of the past (which were not illusionary, as the legends stated, but quite real). She panicked at being surrounded by illusions which she knew merely concealed the real threats. When she was approached by a single rakshasa who claimed to be willing to offer her sanctuary against the threats of the city and reunite her with her friends, she agreed to pay his price. She agreed to give up her (ready for this cliché?) firstborn child. Naturally, she isn't the motherly type anyway and plans to thwart this by simply not having children. Much later, after a series of strange coincidences allowed the party to reunite, they found the Lord of Dust they were seeking to gain the needed Grail from. After joining him in some high stakes gambling (one player now "owns" the region around Festering Holt!), he agrees to deal with them for the Grail they need. The deal? They perform three tasks for him: "One now, one later, and one which has already done". If they agree to perform his tasks, he will trade one Grail for another. He also promises that the tasks will not be beyond what they could morally accept. Now the players have possession of a limited time-travel item, so they think they're onto his reference to a task which has already done. They don't like the idea of doing three tasks at all, but figures that it is the only way to get the Grail they need to save all the cursed people. So, they agree. The first task, to be completed as soon as possible: they must fulfill the heart's desire of each of their fellow party members. Yes. That’s what I said. They are now bound by a fiendish pact to help one another reach their various goals. They thought this sounded too good to be true, and they were right. One player (I had asked them the "heart's desire" question last session) wanted her own deities equivalent of these annoying Grails. Another wanted to know the secret of Draconic (epic) magic. Another wants political power, to whisper into the ears of kings. And the last wants to found an Adaran Embassy in Sharn. Now, they planned to do all these things eventually anyway. But now they must do them immediately. But what benefit to the Lord of Dust, they ask? Needless to say, the Lord knows the location of this third Grail (and why not, he obviously had one to begin with). And he is willing to tell them...if they're willing to do something else for him. :devil: He wants them to destroy an ancient relic left behind by the daelkyr, something that supposedly threatens his power. This is true. But another truth is that it is protected by a grisgol, which will have to be destroyed in order to reach the relic, thus freeing the animating spirit. This ancient wizard has some unfinished business with the Chamber. That is their current mission: to destroy an evil relic for one of the Lords of Dust, and accidentally free a powerful lich obsessed with destroying one of the rakshasa's enemies. Oh yeah. And earlier, when the other rakshasa traded one of its possessions for another of equal value? Same Lord of Dust, and he switched the two Grails at that time, you see. Which means that they've basically agreed to all of this in exchange for the Grail they were trying to get rid of, while letting one they needed slip from their fingers. When they learn this, they'll have little choice but to enter into another deal with the Lords of Dust. That is the kind of subtlety I think can be credited to the Lords of Dust. And more will follow, haunting my players for years, although the details are still in development. Besides the obvious advantage of being the one who placed one person in charge of an embassy, one at the side of a king, and aided two others along the path to greater power, there are other tricks up this Lord's sleeve. The final mission, the one involving travel to the past, will be a journey back to the time of Prince Jarot, to learn some secret (yet to be decided). Ultimately, this party deals with such situations by diplomacy and even seduction. I expect the situation won't come up for quite some time, but it begs the question: If a child is born of King Jarot before he become king, might divination magic reveal him as the heir of Galifar? Because the clerics and diviners in my setting have been seeking such a child for quite some time...and they won't be happy to learn that the child's mother has made an agreement to give her firstborn son to one of the Lords of Dust.
Euangelion 08-28-05, 11:55 PM	Even the Flame itself is a victory not a defeat. The Coatl are no more and the Lord of Dust probably have drinks about their destruction and swap stories about it still. It's only a small remnant of a once vast civilization. (This response may seem belligerent, but it's not meant to be! :D) What!?!? No more couatl? Heh! If that's the way you play the LoD in your campaign, fine. But that would have to be a house rule on your part. There are several couatl left in the world. Many of them stand eternal watch over bound rajahs or other nasties. A few wander the world, seeking worthy members of the lesser races to recruit to their cause. Still others watch over groups of people faithful to the Flame. There's a couatl watching over the Ghaash'kala. There's one in Flamekeep (and not just the one bound to the fiend!). There's at least one in Krezent. Their chosen servants, the Shulassakar, are actively opposing the LoD as well. And then there's the Silver Flame itself, which is the collective souls of the couatl who sacrificed themselves to allow the rajahs to be bound in the first place (not the dragons, as you assert in your original post). In fact, the lack of mention at all of the Silver Flame and the couatl in your original post really does a disservice to any who might look to it for insight on the LoD. I suggest reading up on the Shulassakar Dragonshard web article and reading through the AKB FAQ looking for mention specifically of the couatl and the LoD. Then I urge to you edit your original post, giving credit where credit is due.
Charles Phipps 08-28-05, 11:58 PM	My apologies. SOME Coatl are around but the rest are allll dead. It's like the Giants of Xen'drick only instead of the Quori/elves smashing their grand civilization, it's the loD who now know there's only a handful. Yes, the Rebel Alliance may win thanks to princess leia but Alderaan is still toast.
a_psh 08-29-05, 01:21 AM	"One now, one later, and one which has already done". I really like this (though I'm not bringing the time travel into it... I just like the idea of a rakshasa pointing out that the PCs have already been of great use to it previously) and the "fulfill your own desires" bit. Really, really good ideas for any hyper-tricksy villains.
Euangelion 08-29-05, 01:26 AM	They're not dead! They've been transformed into an entity of vast power, at which the LoD certainly is not just sitting around snickering. They know what keeps the rajahs from freedom. What's worse for the the LoD is that the power of the Silver Flame is growing, since with the death of each person who is faithful to the Flame the lifeforce of another soul joins with those of the original couatl and those who have died since. Certainly you haven't fallen for the progaganda that the Silver Flame is limited to Flamekeep and it's flawed Church, have you? ;)
Charles Phipps 08-29-05, 04:30 AM	Sorry, I guess I never realized the Coatl were insidious enough to burn up human souls to continue powering their Rajah trap. ;-) Strange how these alleged souls show up in Dol Quora though. Must be a plot of the LoD to cover up the truth.
Euangelion 08-29-05, 09:49 AM	Sorry, I guess I never realized the Coatl were insidious enough to burn up human souls to continue powering their Rajah trap. ;-) Strange how these alleged souls show up in Dol Quora though. Must be a plot of the LoD to cover up the truth. Talk about putting things in the worst possible light! Second, the couatl (that's c-o-u-a-t-l ;) ) aren't asking people (not just humans) to do something they themselves aren't willing to do as well. They're not hiding from the people what happens to them when they die. As for the other statement in your post, I'm guessing you meant Dolurrh, the Realm of the Dead, and not Dal Quor, the Region of Dreams, unless you meant to combine them into one plane, Dol Quora, the Realm of Dead Dreams. But assuming that you did mean Dolurrh, in fact the souls of those bound to the Silver Flame are not found on that plane, which indeed is the point, giving those faithful to the Flame something to look forward to in the afterlife (being part of a force of goodness and purity forever) than the alternative (slowing fading into apathy and despair until nothing is left, and from there who knows what). (Consequently, it's particularly hard to convince one who has been bound to the Silver Flame in death to accept being raised from the dead.) Dude, you need to take a few more ranks in Knowledge (religion), Knowledge (arcana), and Knowledge (the planes). You're butchering your checks! ;)
aelryinth 08-29-05, 11:18 AM	Then they'd just kill all humanity probably. The Lords of Dust have that power (barring PCs). It's not like they really have a use for them like the Quori who use us as a food source. They try anything overt like that, and they are hosed instantly...the Dragons, and probably the elves, will come down on them like the Wrath of the HEavens. Remember, humans hold a lot of Dragonmarks, which ties them to the Prophecy. Trying to exterminate mortals means trying to alter a huge portion of the Prophecy, which likely means direct Draconic opposition...not to mention what would happen if exposed fiends started showing up everywhere. Suddenly, there'd be a lot more heroes and Eberron wouldn't be such a low level place anymore. ==Aelryinth
Gurv 08-29-05, 12:46 PM	They try anything overt like that, and they are hosed instantly...the Dragons, and probably the elves, will come down on them like the Wrath of the HEavens. The Dragons have been trying to rid the world of the demons since...well, since they helped cause the end of the Age of Demons. The key thing to note here is...they've failed. The Dragons don't have the power to eliminate the rakshasa. The best they could do was aid the couatl in binding the rajahs, and force a bit of a retreat. The rakshasa are not afraid of the Dragons, because if the Dragons could really do something about them, they would have.
Charles Phipps 08-29-05, 01:03 PM	And if the elves cared.... Oooo...the elves are coming! I'm so frightened. *shudder* And the couatl bit was sarcasm. First of all, the whole idea of joining with the Silver Flame is just as likely church myth as anything else. Next, I just never liked the feathered serpents.
sus323 08-29-05, 02:13 PM	I think Charles presents a good overview of how the Lords of Dust would act as a group. Of couse, those times that they do act as a group would be few and far between. The way the LoD are presented in the books suggests to me that they are constantly working on their own individual plans. Sometimes to free the Rajah, sometimes to reach their own goals. If this is the case, then the plans of an individual Rakshasa would not nessessarily be larger than life. Perhaps the Rakshasa wants to get his hands on a particular item/person/monster. They seem too cunning or perhaps too weird to just walk up and steal it. They would create a convoluted plan to get someone else to steal it for them. In terms of the Silver Flame, I would not think that the Rakshasa are drinking toasts to the death of the Coualt. The sacrifice of the Coualt was a major Lord of Dust defeat. It bound their eternal masters behind seemingly unbreakable seals. To be sure there aren't many winged serpents running around any more. But they are there, in energy form, in the Silver Flame. Think of it like Obi Wan telling Darth that if he is struck down he will return more powerful than can be imagined. Just my two cents.
Charles Phipps 08-29-05, 02:19 PM	I'll concede the feathered serpents won in death.
UnkemptSage 08-29-05, 02:22 PM	I thought they were only MOSTLY dead? (Hmm, that's the second reference I've made to "The Princess Bride" on this board in the last 24 hours) Are the couatls really all dead?
Charles Phipps 08-29-05, 02:24 PM	I thought they were only MOSTLY dead? (Hmm, that's the second reference I've made to "The Princess Bride" on this board in the last 24 hours) Are the couatls really all dead? No, a TINY few are running around. As stated, it's like the Irda in Dragonlance or the Jedi around the time of Star Wars. Their fire has gone out of the universe, Obi Wan is the last of thier religion and all that.
UnkemptSage 08-29-05, 02:25 PM	Ah, okay, that's what I thought.
Euangelion 08-29-05, 05:09 PM	No, a TINY few are running around. As stated, it's like the Irda in Dragonlance or the Jedi around the time of Star Wars. Their fire has gone out of the universe, Obi Wan is the last of thier religion and all that. Just remember that the dude who said that ended up vaporized by an untrained son of a fallen Jedi!