Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dawn_of_an_Age 01-16-07, 03:28 PM	I am starting a campaign in which one of the protagonist is either going to be a Knight of Thrane, or a Knight of Old Cyre (right now I am leaning more towards Old Cyre). In addition to this he will also be, or rather become the first "Heir of Siberys" in a Dragonmarked House; in this case the house will be Deneith. (Though the character will not actually be born within the House, he will be born into a "normal family" and his dragonmark will not manifest until somwhere between his 14th and 16th birthday thereabouts.). How do you think "The Chamber" will respond to this? I was thinking of going with something along the lines of; the first time his dragonmark manifests itself it would do so with such power that the Dragons of Argonesson would take note. The overall effect of the manifestation would probably only be the Least or Lesser effect of the Mark of the Sentinel. What the Dragons would be sensing then would be the innate raw power of a Siberys Mark (This would be a mystery because they would have never sensed a power such as this before.) to be, which at the time of manifest would be untapped.
DargonSwift 01-17-07, 08:48 AM	First, this is only to clarify things and not to stomp on your story, a Siberys dragonmark can only manifest on someone who has no other dragonmarks and on someone of a pretty significant level. I don't have my books handy, but I believe the skill requirement is 2-3 skills at rank 15, which would be at least 12th level. Now, I doubt your Denieth cub is 12th level at 16 years old? If so, that'd be quite impressive. That said, lets assume you've waived some or all of these rules in favor of good storytelling, something I've done often enough. The dragons are not omniscient, and do not automatically sense every dragonmark to come along, however, many prophets may have anticipated his coming through interpretations of the Prophecy and thus may be looking for him before he's even born. If the Draconic Prophecy indicates his birth is important (good/bad), then they are likely to have an agent (draconic or not) in place near the boy. This could be the odd "Obi Wan" type of hermit/wanderer, or even a member of the kid's family. It could even be the innkeeper or village idiot. Whether they even sense him or know about him is really all up to you and the story you want to tell. Dragons would not likely impose on his life, unless his coming would jeopardize the Prophesy in some way - in which case a rogue dragon or Chamber member might make a quick snack of him. More likely those dragon's interested may simply watch from afar using various scrying methods. The child may grow up feeling "watched". Technically, some dragons could want him alive and other may want him dead. A dragon who believes he could benefit the Prophesy may have shielded him from those who want him dead - until ignorant adventurers came in and killed the good dragon. The good dragon's agent, such as the village idiot, comes rushing into the PC's home in the middle of the night stating he needs to flee immediately. Basically, the evil dragon has finally found him, and they need to run or the it will lay waste to his entire village looking for him. Perhaps they quest to find an item that will protect the lad from scrying, or otherwise seek out his destiny. However, if you're going with a grandiose story, give the boy a full Siberys Dragonmark. Even if you don't claim it's the only Siberys mark in House Denieth, having one appear on a boy that young would be quite significant in its own right. You might even modify it so it's a different spell. A force shield (10 ft. diameter spherical wall of force) would be nice, as it'd protect him from the bad dragon or his agents mentioned above.
Alex_ 01-17-07, 09:30 AM	I am starting a campaign in which one of the protagonist is either going to be a Knight of Thrane, or a Knight of Old Cyre (right now I am leaning more towards Old Cyre). In addition to this he will also be, or rather become the first "Heir of Siberys" in a Dragonmarked House; in this case the house will be Deneith. (Though the character will not actually be born within the House, he will be born into a "normal family" and his dragonmark will not manifest until somwhere between his 14th and 16th birthday thereabouts.). How do you think "The Chamber" will respond to this? I was thinking of going with something along the lines of; the first time his dragonmark manifests itself it would do so with such power that the Dragons of Argonesson would take note. The overall effect of the manifestation would probably only be the Least or Lesser effect of the Mark of the Sentinel. What the Dragons would be sensing then would be the innate raw power of a Siberys Mark (This would be a mystery because they would have never sensed a power such as this before.) to be, which at the time of manifest would be untapped. If you're making up how Syberis Dragonmarks work, then you can really make up how the Dragons would react. Dargon has very good suggestion. Argonessen generally never takew direct action, and instead prefer to watch everything happen without direct interference. Conflict only occurs if they see something they have great interest in threatened with destruction, and even then, they're still unlikely to take direct action. But all of this is based more on the Eberron world as described in the actual books, where Syberis marks don't appear on anyone of low level, are not particulalry dangerous/world changing in and of themselves, and nobody, not even dragons can just sense their power. Although for pure crunch purposes, I don't see the harm in a 12th level child commoner manifesting a Dragonmark. Jaela's only a kid, and she's an 18th level Cleric. There are people who have been in the church many times as long as her, and probably aren't even 4th level experts, while 20 somethings are 6th level adepts. Age and social status should not really indicators of an NPC's level in DnD. Level is a game mechanic meant more for the PCs' devlopment than the game world's.
GreenWarlock 01-17-07, 09:45 AM	Well do't forget that Jaela is only 18th level while inside of Flamekeep, outside of it she is a 3rd level cleric.
Alex_ 01-17-07, 10:39 AM	3rd level Cleric is still very impressive for an 11 year old for most campaigns.
DargonSwift 01-17-07, 10:43 AM	Well do't forget that Jaela is only 18th level while inside of Flamekeep, outside of it she is a 3rd level cleric. This is really a moot point. If she needs access to high level divine magic, she simply steps into the keep. One would assume her duties would keep her there most of the time any way.
DargonSwift 01-17-07, 10:59 AM	...the first time his dragonmark manifests itself it would do so with such power that the Dragons of Argonesson would take note... I'd split this up a bit, for more detail. For the dragons, one of the most magical beings on the planet (if not THE most magical), to stand up and take notice, you'd have to give a low-level PC a pretty potent spell effect (9th level or higher) for his mark. This doesn't bug me at all; rules are meant to be broken. Maybe you can stick with cannon, and make this something even bigger than a Siberys mark altogether. Or give him a Siberys abberant mark. Mix it up even further and give him a mark based on a high-level psionic power rather than an magical spell. Maybe the Dreaming Dark are mucking with the Prophesy. I like stories that make people ask a lot of questions, and question what they know, or think they know. The overall effect of the manifestation would probably only be the Least or Lesser effect of the Mark of the Sentinel. Bah, think BIG. It'll make the player feel special, lol. However, not too imbalancing. The are a lot of high-level effects that aren't going to give him a huge advantage, except in specific situations. Mainly, I'd go with the defense theme. I wish I had my books handy so I could suggest some spells. Maybe a Mordenkeinan's disjunction spell, or a Time Stop (with some limitations). Whatever it is, don't tell the PC, and only you control the activation of it (until the PC reaches the appropriate level, or takes the Heir of Siberys PrC). Time Stop would certainly get people's attention, and would be a very dramatic power to give him. Sure, the rules lawyers will flame me for suggesting it, but its all in good fun. What the Dragons would be sensing then would be the innate raw power of a Siberys Mark (This would be a mystery because they would have never sensed a power such as this before.) to be, which at the time of manifest would be untapped. Like I said, maybe its not even a Siberys mark. Maybe its something else entirely. That would make the dragons poke their heads up and go, "Hmmm?"
GreenWarlock 01-17-07, 12:08 PM	Dragonswift: It isn't really a moot point as Alex was talking about high level NPCs, and if it would be alright to have an 11 year old who was 12th level or higher. Jaela essentially has a level granting magic item (albeit a really huge VERY burny one) and as such if you take her as the character she is only 3rd level which whle impressive for one so young isn't nearly the granduer implied by Alex Alex: yes I completely agree Jaela is very advanced for someone her age. The reason for this is I think is having her clericly duties drilled into her head day in day out from the moment she was identified as the speaker...and just think of the xp award for averting just one country spanning problem, so by a crunch state she is levling up fast, and by a fluff state she is leveling up fast.
Dawn_of_an_Age 01-17-07, 12:10 PM	I'd split this up a bit, for more detail. For the dragons, one of the most magical beings on the planet (if not THE most magical), to stand up and take notice, you'd have to give a low-level PC a pretty potent spell effect (9th level or higher) for his mark. This doesn't bug me at all; rules are meant to be broken. Maybe you can stick with cannon, and make this something even bigger than a Siberys mark altogether. Or give him a Siberys abberant mark. Mix it up even further and give him a mark based on a high-level psionic power rather than an magical spell. Maybe the Dreaming Dark are mucking with the Prophesy. I like stories that make people ask a lot of questions, and question what they know, or think they know. Bah, think BIG. It'll make the player feel special, lol. However, not too imbalancing. The are a lot of high-level effects that aren't going to give him a huge advantage, except in specific situations. Mainly, I'd go with the defense theme. I wish I had my books handy so I could suggest some spells. Maybe a Mordenkeinan's disjunction spell, or a Time Stop (with some limitations). Whatever it is, don't tell the PC, and only you control the activation of it (until the PC reaches the appropriate level, or takes the Heir of Siberys PrC). Time Stop would certainly get people's attention, and would be a very dramatic power to give him. Sure, the rules lawyers will flame me for suggesting it, but its all in good fun. Like I said, maybe its not even a Siberys mark. Maybe its something else entirely. That would make the dragons poke their heads up and go, "Hmmm?" Dargon, I like you. :D You have really taken to heart what I am looking for and given me some great ideas, Thank You very much.
Alex_ 01-17-07, 01:33 PM	Alex: yes I completely agree Jaela is very advanced for someone her age. The reason for this is I think is having her clericly duties drilled into her head day in day out from the moment she was identified as the speaker...and just think of the xp award for averting just one country spanning problem, so by a crunch state she is levling up fast, and by a fluff state she is leveling up fast. Jaela is the age/level she is because the plot demands it so. If they had decided to make her 18 instead of 11, that doesn't mean they would have chosen level 6 instead of 3 to signify an increase in age and what that would mean in terms of crunch. She could be 8th level in Eberron, and you would probably would have used that same justification. For NPCs, issues regarding experience are not really that important. NPCs, like all things the PCs interact with, should be at a level that functions for the affect the DM wants to achieve. If one of a kind girl little girl intended to be the leader of a religion can be a 3rd level cleric, a young adult male can probably reach level 12ish commoner if, for the pusposes of the story, he's destined to possess the world's only Syberis dragonmark. The rationale behind it is tenuous at best. Classes and levels attached to NPCs are more indicative of the challenge/type of interaction they're to have with the PCs for the sake of the story. Not entirely based on a the actual normal workings of a ficticious world where really almost anything can and does happen.
Seghan 01-17-07, 02:40 PM	I wish I could be as insightful or helpful as Dargon and some of the others, but all I have is this. It sounds like you want your character to be a "the one" sort. That is, unique and perhaps one of the most important people in your entire campaign world. In that case, I personally think that it would be perfectly appropriate to bend a few rules within the guidelines of what would break the actual game. I don't really think this is all that different than somebody beginning their becomeing at an age far beyond what should be possible, and that is a common motif in popular stories (Neo in the Matrix, Garion in the Belgariad, and of course Luke Skywalker in whatever movie that was). This makes a lot of sense when the whole aspect of prophecy comes into play. This kid has to be the one to manifest this for whatever reason, so he does.
Dawn_of_an_Age 01-17-07, 02:45 PM	I wish I could be as insightful or helpful as Dargon and some of the others, but all I have is this. It sounds like you want your character to be a "the one" sort. That is, unique and perhaps one of the most important people in your entire campaign world. In that case, I personally think that it would be perfectly appropriate to bend a few rules within the guidelines of what would break the actual game. I don't really think this is all that different than somebody beginning their becomeing at an age far beyond what should be possible, and that is a common motif in popular stories (Neo in the Matrix, Garion in the Belgariad, and of course Luke Skywalker in whatever movie that was). This makes a lot of sense when the whole aspect of prophecy comes into play. This kid has to be the one to manifest this for whatever reason, so he does. Well said Seghan, and Thank You!:D