Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Faithful_One 03-29-07, 03:46 PM	i've got a player who wants to play an unmarked Half-Elf of the Shadow Network. The Elf Shadow marked house incase i am remembering the Guild name wrong. Both his parents had the mark of Storm and where members of House Lyrandar, but are both now dead. How would it work for him to not be in the Lyrandar Guilds? And be in the Shadow network instead? He is an assassin type so he would fit into the Shadow Network real easy, but i am wondering what all this would mean for him. Also assuming he can get in the Shadow Network what would happen if he got a least DM of Storm later on? Sybris mark? Thanks for your help!
Nundahl 03-29-07, 04:03 PM	I love the potential here ... so I'll start by saying I think you should definately allow it. First, I'd say no reason that if he tends to push more stealthy endeavors, and catches the eyes and ears of the Shadow network, I see no reason they'd not try to hire him in the guild. Your story so far supports that, so not much to say there. What I love, is his potential to manifest a 'mark later. how awesome would it be for him to get the Siberys Mark of Storm as a Thuranni or Phiarlan guildmember. Lyrandar would try to steal him back, he'd question his allegiance ... Things could even get hostile, so yes to one house anger the other ... Spy on Lyrandar for Thuranni ... Fun. -Nundahl
Syltorian 03-29-07, 04:17 PM	Well, first, the Shadow Houses might be the experts in espionage and assassination (to a lesser degree), but Lyrandar might have its own use for such agents. For instance to go undercover and root out pirates, or, less nicely, to sabotage enemy ships (such as those pesky Lhazaarites). The Shadow Network could be difficult. In general, I believe they are reluctant to let anyone in who is not a member of House Phiarlan - the Serpentine Table hasn't done that so far, for example. He is, possibly, a valuable asset. But one whose loyalties will be divided... or at least, seem to be. That means that he is unlikely to rise to any position of authority. Thuranni just cannot trust him, and trust is what their work is all about. It would work, but he'll be watched. Lyrandar will also understand that his loyalties are divided, provided they find out who he is working for. If they do not, questions could be raised as to why he kept that secret... was he working against them? If he is, they'll exclude him from every secret of the family. If he develops a dragonmark, and becomes able to use the dragonshard items, he becomes potentially able to use them for Thuranni instead of for Lyrandar. Even if both sides trust this character, they still do not trust his other contacts. Thuranni could manipulate him into working against Lyrandar, if they were so inclined. They might or might not have a reason. Perhaps they are paid by Orien to trouble Lyrandar's currently superior transport links. Perhaps Kaius wants to sow discord between the Lyrandar and the Valenar. Lyrandar cannot trust Thuranni. Few who know who they are would do so unreservedly. As for a Siberys Mark: they are so rare that the House will do whatever it can to control it, or see to it that nobody else does. Now, with all that said: you are the DM. If you want to go easier on your player, declare that there is less intrigue between the houses, and that cooperation within the Twelve is better than the above view would indicate. The Shadow Network is quite happy to have operatives from other houses, with the understanding, of course, that they will not be used against either house...
Vharuck 03-29-07, 04:31 PM	He'll only ever be considered part of the House's guild, never the House. Houses are very strict about keeping all chances of mixed marks from occurring.
Faithful_One 03-29-07, 04:36 PM	I love the potential here ... so I'll start by saying I think you should definately allow it. So do i.:devil: What I love, is his potential to manifest a 'mark later. how awesome would it be for him to get the Siberys Mark of Storm as a Thuranni or Phiarlan guildmember. Lyrandar would try to steal him back, he'd question his allegiance ... "Steal back"....:plotting: I think he would try to stay with Thuranni or Phiarlan though. He is loving the idea of an assassin network and Lyrandar doesn't really have one. Spy on Lyrandar for Thuranni ... Fun. Very Fun. I can see him doing this aswell. Holding true loyalty to Thuranni or Phiarlan, but when the Mark shows up his bosses see a golden oppertunity for a powerful and high ranking spy. Well, first, the Shadow Houses might be the experts in espionage and assassination (to a lesser degree), but Lyrandar might have its own use for such agents. For instance to go undercover and root out pirates, or, less nicely, to sabotage enemy ships (such as those pesky Lhazaarites). The idea that he could still work for Lyrandar in a spy/assassin way actually helps me quite a bit. I'll have to talk to him about this. That means that he is unlikely to rise to any position of authority. i dont think he every really planned to. He has his own second agenda (just like everyone else in Eberron;) ). As for a Siberys Mark: they are so rare that the House will do whatever it can to control it, or see to it that nobody else does. Kind of what I was think was that the player would hide the mark. No one has to know and even if the Shadow network finds out why would they let him go? As you said Siberys Marks are very rare, wouldn't Thuranni or Phiarlan want to keep it for themselves? He'll only ever be considered part of the House's guild, never the House. Houses are very strict about keeping all chances of mixed marks from occurring. Ya i figured niether Thuranni or Phiarlan would let him become a House member. It mostly being in the guild i am wondering about.
Cifer 03-29-07, 06:57 PM	Kind of what I was think was that the player would hide the mark. This might be a little tricky. Syberis marks cover almost the entire body. You would need illusion spells for that - and illusion spells raise questions as soon as they are detected.
Vharuck 03-29-07, 07:26 PM	This might be a little tricky. Syberis marks cover almost the entire body. You would need illusion spells for that - and illusion spells raise questions as soon as they are detected. Except in a guild of spies. If I'm meeting with a spy peer, I'd be more offset if I didn't see any hint of a disguise.
Zombomaniac 03-29-07, 07:59 PM	This might be a little tricky. Syberis marks cover almost the entire body. You would need illusion spells for that - and illusion spells raise questions as soon as they are detected. Another thing to remember is ordinary clothing. What if he constantly wears full body clothing, even before the mark shows? This combined with some simple illusion should have him covered. @OP sounds like you got quite the game planned. Planning anything else we can help with?:)
Cifer 03-29-07, 08:36 PM	Except in a guild of spies. If I'm meeting with a spy peer, I'd be more offset if I didn't see any hint of a disguise. There? Sure. Everywhere else? Not really, unless I want to scream "Hey guys, I'm someone who has something to hide!". Another thing to remember is ordinary clothing. What if he constantly wears full body clothing, even before the mark shows? This combined with some simple illusion should have him covered. Pray you never, ever, need to go to Breland or Xen'Drik. Plus, there's a good chance the mark will show up on his face, too. And "a heavily concealed stranger" is not a good alias.
Vharuck 03-29-07, 08:43 PM	There? Sure. Everywhere else? Not really, unless I want to scream "Hey guys, I'm someone who has something to hide!" "Hey, you're radiating illusionary magic! What're you hiding?" "What do you mean, hiding? It's just my glamerweave shirt." I don't really remember how detect magic works exactly, but that might explain it to most people.
Faithful_One 03-29-07, 10:33 PM	There? Sure. Pray you never, ever, need to go to Breland or Xen'Drik. :confused: Why? Plus, there's a good chance the mark will show up on his face, too. And "a heavily concealed stranger" is not a good alias. True, but can't he more or less choose where it shows up? I know it is huge, but couldn't he say "It doesn't show up on my PC's face."? I also know he will be getting the Crystal Mask of Dread form the MIC so that will cover his face. Plus he wont have a Siberys Mark for awhile so he could set it up now and it'ld fit in later. @OP sounds like you got quite the game planned. Planning anything else we can help with? Actually, yes. And since I am getting good replys here I'll post them up, but I want to handle this one thing at a time. Don't worry there are only like two other things.:D
Cifer 03-30-07, 09:07 AM	Why? Tropical climate is fun. True, but can't he more or less choose where it shows up? I know it is huge, but couldn't he say "It doesn't show up on my PC's face."? Meh. I also know he will be getting the Crystal Mask of Dread form the MIC so that will cover his face. And all of his disguises will also use the mask? "What do you mean, hiding? It's just my glamerweave shirt." I don't really remember how detect magic works exactly, but that might explain it to most people. Where was glamerweave from?
Hideous Phidias 03-30-07, 07:09 PM	Ok I admit I did not read all the post so this may have been covered already, if so oh well my time spent not yours. One why not just keep it simple he is a Lyrandar by birth right. Well have him in the windwright guild openly,it would be exspectedfrom him. But if he goes durid or cleric with control over the weather then the rainmakers guild for him. Now comes the fun part, Being a lyrandar is what he is cannot help that, but we all want more in life. This is were the shadow network comes in, they are always looking to recruit members from all walks of life even other dragonmaarked houses. He would be their inside man so to speak. Spying for the Thuranni on the Lyrandars. He coould be giving information on shipments of cargo movments of importation people travely on Lyrandar ship or even House Personel. The thing a good spy does not say "Hey I am a register spy with the shadow network I need you to give me the information I want ok." I mean what are you James Bond the worst spy in the history of well any thing. What next are going to let him pull a class out of the Book of Erotic Fantacy so he can shag his way out of a fight. I mean just because he is a spy does not mean every one knows it and doesnot trust him. I would let him play the spy he does not even have to have hide and move silent skillsjust Bluff, Diplomicy, gather information and sence motive. Remember as the DM you will be the people at House Thuranni he works for give him the job of getting as high in Lyrandarr as he can.Itis a great hook to build a campaign around. Maybe even get every Player to take a dragonmark and have the Thuranni shadow network try to get them all under their thumb. Have the campaign based out of the Twelve.