I can't escape making Karrnath too Gothic [Archive] - Wizards Community

I can't escape making Karrnath too Gothic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Charles Phipps
08-31-06, 11:57 PM Looking over my Karrnathsylvania thread, it occurs to me that I have some serious issues in trying to portray Karrnath as anything other than a place for Gothic Horror.

I admit the Vampire King and armies of the undead DO lend themselves towards this sort of thing but my Ravenloft instincts keep kicking in to try and make Kaius a badguy where they have to break into his undead infested castle to get the Holy Symbol of Ravenkind.

It affects every part of my storytelling until the Karns are Transylvanian peasants and the nobility is a bunch of bloodthirsty evil Eastern European looney toons.

:-p

Anyone else have this problem? Should I embrace it or should I try and find other angles to approach adventuring in Wallac...err Karrnath from.
Nived
09-01-06, 12:06 AM While I play my Karrnath very eastern European (I stop short of putting the commoners in lederhosen... but damn its tempting), I haven't felt that my Karrnath has come across like cliche Transylvanian superstition town.

I suppose the thing to keep in mind about Karrnath is there are no 'scared pesants'. Nearly everyone (including women) has served at least two years in Karrnath's military. These are tough proud people. Actually my Karrns are more than a bit bosterous, proud, even *gasp* happy decent folk.

Course my game is set in Western Karrnath... Eastern Karrnath, away from the capital, in places like the City of Night would be a bit more dour.
Azazyll
09-01-06, 10:53 PM I actually think of it as more Prussian or northern Germany than bavarian or Romanian. But I agree with Keith, one should try to fight real world parallels and try to think outside the box (which you obviously are, since you posted this thread).
taski
09-02-06, 01:56 AM In my game, Karrnath has three very different culture groups.

Western Karrnath, the urbanized group. These people live in or near large cities, comparitively safe from monsters (though other people become a bigger threat), benefit from a well-established middle-class, have good health care, are literate and educated, and are by no means a "backward" people. Western Karrnath is the source for avante garde symphonies, novels, plays and sculpture, all of which are discussed in their numerous coffee houses. Here, which parties a person gets invited to is one of the best measures of their status. The atmosphere is, primarily, culturally and intellectually sophisticated, with complex social manuvering. In general, this group supports Kaius, because he is trying to centralize the government (and they happen to be the center).

Northern Karrnath, the warlord territories. Here's where your rural peasants come in. They occationally have to fight roaming monsters, but more often have to struggle against the elements to eke out a living. The middle-class is paltry at best, but health care is not non-existant; Jorasco often sends doctors-in-training up north from Vedykar. Dispite the relative poverty of the peasants, they still manage to be literate and educated in Karrnathi history -- reading up on one's ancestors is a common pastime. Because of this, family feuds can last for many generations, almost becoming a pastime in themselves. Tale-telling is another way to wait through the winter, and the folklore is rich, dark, and wierd; enchanter-sorcerers and witch-druids figure prominently, and heroic vampire-warlords fight off encroaching evil fey, wendigos, and Risian invasions (never actually happened). The atmosphere is a paradoxical mix of down-to-earth pragmatism and fearful superstition. Because the warlords own most of the land, being a landowner is a good sign of high status. While the warlords themselves might not like some of Kaius' policies, the peasants rarely pretend to know or care about politics.

South-Eastern Karrnath, the traders. This is where most of the Talentan and Mrorish influences come in. Vulyar is the center of trade between Karrnath, the Talenta plains and the Mror holds, and subsiquently has an enormous market distrct and some of the finer hotels in Karrnath. Money is the barometer of status here, and owning exotic wares is one of the best ways to show off. The atmosphere is one of open-minded mercantalism, and the traders are somewhat in favor of Kaius; the less power for the nobles have, the more power is available to the merchants.

Anyway, when my gaming group works on Karrnath (or any other nation), we try to start with the facts we're given in the ECS, and draw from those to build a world-internal atmosphere. Then we also pull small things from various real-world cultures that fit into the established atmosphere. The coffee houses, for instance, are inspired from Turkish coffee houses. Coffee is a great beverage for the Karrns, as it's something to counter-act the cold, bleak weather.
Seghan
09-05-06, 10:33 PM I have been trying to develop a Karrn character for our upcoming campaign, and am thus basically in charge of developing our Karrn flavor. I tend to have Karrn fashion be gothic influenced, dark and a bit baroque. The female Beguiler image in PHB II is an influence for me. A lot of the darkness has more to do with the harsh coldness and martial influence of the area than with the undead aspect. Though negitive energy does play a role in that. Short of that, I tend to go with the northern German influence. The people of Karrnath are just the same as anyone else. In fact, I see major cities like Karrlakton as non-homogonized as even native Karrns seek to ape and incorperate the styles and mannerisms of other nations and their own new ones. Okay, I'm ramblling. Out.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Charles Phipps 08-31-06, 11:57 PM	Looking over my Karrnathsylvania thread, it occurs to me that I have some serious issues in trying to portray Karrnath as anything other than a place for Gothic Horror. I admit the Vampire King and armies of the undead DO lend themselves towards this sort of thing but my Ravenloft instincts keep kicking in to try and make Kaius a badguy where they have to break into his undead infested castle to get the Holy Symbol of Ravenkind. It affects every part of my storytelling until the Karns are Transylvanian peasants and the nobility is a bunch of bloodthirsty evil Eastern European looney toons. :-p Anyone else have this problem? Should I embrace it or should I try and find other angles to approach adventuring in Wallac...err Karrnath from.
Nived 09-01-06, 12:06 AM	While I play my Karrnath very eastern European (I stop short of putting the commoners in lederhosen... but damn its tempting), I haven't felt that my Karrnath has come across like cliche Transylvanian superstition town. I suppose the thing to keep in mind about Karrnath is there are no 'scared pesants'. Nearly everyone (including women) has served at least two years in Karrnath's military. These are tough proud people. Actually my Karrns are more than a bit bosterous, proud, even gasp happy decent folk. Course my game is set in Western Karrnath... Eastern Karrnath, away from the capital, in places like the City of Night would be a bit more dour.
Azazyll 09-01-06, 10:53 PM	I actually think of it as more Prussian or northern Germany than bavarian or Romanian. But I agree with Keith, one should try to fight real world parallels and try to think outside the box (which you obviously are, since you posted this thread).
taski 09-02-06, 01:56 AM	In my game, Karrnath has three very different culture groups. Western Karrnath, the urbanized group. These people live in or near large cities, comparitively safe from monsters (though other people become a bigger threat), benefit from a well-established middle-class, have good health care, are literate and educated, and are by no means a "backward" people. Western Karrnath is the source for avante garde symphonies, novels, plays and sculpture, all of which are discussed in their numerous coffee houses. Here, which parties a person gets invited to is one of the best measures of their status. The atmosphere is, primarily, culturally and intellectually sophisticated, with complex social manuvering. In general, this group supports Kaius, because he is trying to centralize the government (and they happen to be the center). Northern Karrnath, the warlord territories. Here's where your rural peasants come in. They occationally have to fight roaming monsters, but more often have to struggle against the elements to eke out a living. The middle-class is paltry at best, but health care is not non-existant; Jorasco often sends doctors-in-training up north from Vedykar. Dispite the relative poverty of the peasants, they still manage to be literate and educated in Karrnathi history -- reading up on one's ancestors is a common pastime. Because of this, family feuds can last for many generations, almost becoming a pastime in themselves. Tale-telling is another way to wait through the winter, and the folklore is rich, dark, and wierd; enchanter-sorcerers and witch-druids figure prominently, and heroic vampire-warlords fight off encroaching evil fey, wendigos, and Risian invasions (never actually happened). The atmosphere is a paradoxical mix of down-to-earth pragmatism and fearful superstition. Because the warlords own most of the land, being a landowner is a good sign of high status. While the warlords themselves might not like some of Kaius' policies, the peasants rarely pretend to know or care about politics. South-Eastern Karrnath, the traders. This is where most of the Talentan and Mrorish influences come in. Vulyar is the center of trade between Karrnath, the Talenta plains and the Mror holds, and subsiquently has an enormous market distrct and some of the finer hotels in Karrnath. Money is the barometer of status here, and owning exotic wares is one of the best ways to show off. The atmosphere is one of open-minded mercantalism, and the traders are somewhat in favor of Kaius; the less power for the nobles have, the more power is available to the merchants. Anyway, when my gaming group works on Karrnath (or any other nation), we try to start with the facts we're given in the ECS, and draw from those to build a world-internal atmosphere. Then we also pull small things from various real-world cultures that fit into the established atmosphere. The coffee houses, for instance, are inspired from Turkish coffee houses. Coffee is a great beverage for the Karrns, as it's something to counter-act the cold, bleak weather.
Seghan 09-05-06, 10:33 PM	I have been trying to develop a Karrn character for our upcoming campaign, and am thus basically in charge of developing our Karrn flavor. I tend to have Karrn fashion be gothic influenced, dark and a bit baroque. The female Beguiler image in PHB II is an influence for me. A lot of the darkness has more to do with the harsh coldness and martial influence of the area than with the undead aspect. Though negitive energy does play a role in that. Short of that, I tend to go with the northern German influence. The people of Karrnath are just the same as anyone else. In fact, I see major cities like Karrlakton as non-homogonized as even native Karrns seek to ape and incorperate the styles and mannerisms of other nations and their own new ones. Okay, I'm ramblling. Out.