I like drow... [Archive] - Wizards Community

I like drow... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bubba333
04-18-05, 04:02 AM Ok, I've been off the forums for a bit and was only skimming certain threads, but I noticed more than one "anti-drow" comments. I just wanted to say that although I can see annoyance at drow rangers with two swords (I'm not a Drizzt fan, BTW. Not a hater, but not a fan either), the drow in Eberron seem so different. I love their jungle-barbarian mysticism and what-not, which to me is a fresh take. I am however, a tad confused as to where they're from/ Are they from Khyber or the jungles? I read about the Umbragen, but they seem like a "sub-sub-race". Am I right? Admittedly I'm not on-the-ball about this, so any help is appreciated.
rwarner3701
04-18-05, 10:02 AM I agree that the drow are much differant than the ones that are hated so much in other settings. They do seem to be better and although I played them as disiplined and honorable that is not the only way. They were "created" by the giants to be servents but I'm not sure if they just selectivily bred elves to make them better at night or if they introduced some small amount of demonic/abberation blood. I would say the ones around in the jungle have been living there since the giants were destroyed while any underground may have been further corrupted by Khyber. This allows for both to be present while they are seperate groups.
Dex The King
04-18-05, 10:35 AM I like them too. I've never experienced the character cloning and unoriginality that others have cited as their reasons for hating drow.

I used them as honorable, isolationists following a bit of a druidic culture. They defended ancient Xen'drik ruins, to keep the giants' aritifacts from falling into the wrong hands. They felt a strong connection to Siberys, and venerated the Silver Flame, though by another name, of course.

As for their magical abilities (SR & spell-like abilities), I explained them as the result of experimentation done by their former masters. When one of them used their powers, I described it by saying intricately woven lines started to glow; like their whole skin was a large dragonmark.

It worked out well.
Romulus LoneWolf
04-18-05, 11:45 AM My take on the Drow is just to make Lolth less "chaotic insanely vicious", being the Scorpion God Vulkor's consort. The Drow society would still be female-dominant, but with males still considered important parts of society.

I'd also divide them into seperate tribes/nations, some more villainous then others, with some trying to keep the Giants' mystic lore lost and forgotten, and others trying to uncover it to exploit it...
Targos
04-18-05, 01:19 PM From what I gather from the Keith Baker thread, drow are to the umbragen as the valenar are to the arenal. The drow are the ex-slaves that live near the surface and hunt at night while the umbragen live deep in kyber and have developed their own culture. Merely cultural differences. I also recall that they were not created from the giants nor are they off shoots of the standard elf. The ECS says the giants enslaved the drow and the elves. The two are not so much subraces, but rather humanoids that both have the elf subtype much like the goblin and hobgoblin. Of course the drow have the kinship with scorpions and the umbragen are masters of shadow magic (I think).
Golbez57
04-18-05, 01:58 PM In addition to the Umbragen article in Dragon, dark elf goodness penned by The 'Cow has also recently appeared in the pages of Dungeon. The article in issue #122 called "The Ring of Storms" (and other things Keith has said about the skin pigmentation of dark elves having more to do with magical events rather than genetics or the environment) hints at the possibility that the drow are descended from elves that delved into some seriously wicked stuff.

I like the drow of Eberron, too. If one picks up a copy of one of Mr. Salvatore's recent hardcovers and holds it aside the cover of Races of Eberron, it should be clear that we're not retreading the same territory here.

That said, I don't hope for a proliferation of dark elves on Khorvaire or in any place other than Xen'drik, and even there I hope that encounters with them are sporadic, unique, and therefore exciting.
JimmyBones
04-18-05, 06:12 PM Trolling removed
Sturm Jaeger
04-18-05, 06:14 PM Quoted trolling removed

*breaks out the torches and flasks of acid* Troll!
deClench
04-19-05, 12:14 AM I personally love the new Drow. I must say that the local Drow-bashing is getting rather tedious. The only basis for it seems to be some over-zealous players wanting to emulate one particular novelized character that they adored. Look, if you as a DM do not wish to harbor that brand of Drow in your campaign, then it is up to you to come to terms with your players and reach a compromise, not to purge the race from the MM. This fictional race should not be evoking this irrational hatred.

I personally think that the previous incarnation of the drow were taken too far. They were fleshed out more than most other races and there was simply not much left for people to do anything original with. That may simply be my own lack of creativity, but the stereotypes were laid down and reinforced time and time again that there seemed to be other more interesting cultures in the game to play with. That does not make the drow race uninteresting or unusable or unworthy and I say more power to you if you like that form of Drow.

Now we have a fresh opportunity. These new drow have been delivered to us without the baggage (except for the carry-ons of the players :) ) of the old dark elves. Of course the possibility is there for abuse my DM, player, and game developer alike to try to milk these dark outcasts for all they're worth and turn them into over-the-top, tired, no fun rejects. So work to make this race your own before someone tries to do it for you. Make them fun. If you didn't like them before, change their focus. There's been some thought-provoking material written on them so far; make the most of it!

For my own campaigns, the drow of Eberron will not be the wholly evil thing that they once were. Granted that, as per the MM, they're typically evil; that can be worked around. These drow are tribal for the most part. They live in a harsh environment and have been treated harshly. Of course they may not look on outsiders with a generous eye. They're about survival. The Umbragen are a subset that were described very well in Dragon and are more cunning and magically-delicious than their more mundane counterparts -- these elves are the ones with agendas. The Umbragen are not likely though to simply go on killing raids of all things not twisted dark elf; they wouldn't do anything that doesn't look 4 or 5 steps ahead to the bigger picture; they seem very calculating.

I look forward to seeing more on the scorpion god religion of these elves. I believe it's been said somewhere to approximate (or actually be) the Mockery? That may be a bit too evil for my taste, but per chance that is not the only deity worshipped by these people. I like the idea of making them more druidic/animistic in flavor (or at least with a strong showing); I think the CoW would find so many new converts with these drow (I'm thinking-up a drow member of the CoW character as I write this).

They're a hard people. They tend toward tribal-style violence and maybe they are mostly looking out for number one and their family (read evil), but generally they have more pressing concerns (like staying alive) than world domination.

Well I'm done rambling... and besides, I'm sure my views on them will evolve daily. I hope that some people that didn't like drow in their previous incarnation will give these new and "improved" specimens from Eberron another chance or at least, please, just don't acknowledge them in your own world and leave the rest of us to our fantastic fun!
Xaaon
04-23-05, 03:06 AM I loved the old drow, as villains, Drizz't was a great character, but I considered him very unique.

The Eberron Drow are again a wonderful villainous race, but I can see them worked into an adventuring party...IF the party is exploring out of Stormreach. The freeform alignments really help with that in Ebberon.

Driders and "scorpion-driders" (I take these as Tlincallis - anyone else read that in RoE?) are also mentioned, and Driders are not considered outcasts...but the blessed of Vulkoor.

Much different than standard drow, and I think I may make the males the dominant gender, or perhaps it's dual-gender dominated, perhaps the male and female "elders" govern the rest of the family unit by gender, an alpha female and an alpha male in each family group. I'm leaning toward the dual-gender family unit now I think.
Zalaz Mavi
04-23-05, 09:35 AM The thing I like about them is that the lack of nationality and cultural unity allows for endless experimentation. I used models ranging from cargo cults to Amazons to cannibals for a variety of tribes.
My only contention is with the term "Drow" itself. All the other races in Eberron received name changes — gnomes become Zil; dwarves, the Mror; etc. — except the dark elves. A few of the group found this disappointing as well. So we houseruled that in the vernacular, they're "dark elves." The collective name for the people, will be an esoteric, academic term; we just haven't hit on a term everyone likes yet. We've tossed around names like "Kenkari," "Sithi," and others from a variety of sources, but nothing has stuck for one reason or other...
Malicant
04-23-05, 09:47 AM Hence the names used for Dwarves, Gnomes etc. were derived from they home country, I'd suggest to call the dark elves 'Xen' or something, if a different term is needed at all.

And I totally like the ebberon drow, 'cause they don't have this 'you're powerful in our society as long as you assasinate anyone more powerful than yourself, effectively weakening the race and hampering any goals'-attitude. Chaotis Stupid was the alignment most fitted for these damn spider huggers. And I'm a little concerned about people who actuelly speak drow (or elven or klingon or.. I think you get the point).
Medesha
04-23-05, 03:23 PM I've always liked drow. I like the new drow, too. I'm not much of a hater of anything, really.
D4rkchylde
04-23-05, 09:15 PM I like Drow (http://www.rottface.com/images/mg_dr_01.jpg) too :D
Andrus_Shade
04-24-05, 01:12 AM In addition to the Umbragen article in Dragon
what dragon issue talks about the Eberron Drow?
midniteprism
04-24-05, 03:27 PM The beauty of the new ECS, and the beauty of D&D as a whole, is the ability to create something new and make it your very own. I guess I've been blessed in the sense that most of the ppl I play w/ (are participate in the game I run) are ppl w/ very little knowledge of the game before i introduced them to it. So, no stereotypes and template Drow baggage was brought into the mix when they decided to play and thus I've breaded a sort of grey area when Drow are encountered in my campaigns. My players know of drow in the world as this sort of evil elvish race, but there are far more terrifiying and horrible things lurking in their own cities for them to be concerned about drow.

ECS puts a further spin on it by making drow almost a non issue for the starting campaign as a whole. On a continent that few groups will begin their adventures on. I sort of think of the Drow now as a very territorial race, not evil, not good, just minding their own business and working toward protecting their own lands. Sort of a "you leave ME alone, I leave YOU alone" sort of aspect. Just my 2cents.
RadicalTaoist
04-24-05, 04:53 PM *breaks out the torches and flasks of acid* Troll!
Ah, what'd it say? I missed it.
Medesha
04-24-05, 07:16 PM what dragon issue talks about the Eberron Drow?

#330
D4rkchylde
04-26-05, 03:36 PM Yes I like the spin Kieth Baker put on the Eberron Drow. Just look at the pic from the link I posted in my previous post.

Drow with Dreadlocks and dressed as tribal warriors while standing in the noon-day sun. Thats just awesome, its a far cry from the Drow I am use to and I love it.
LordofIllusions
04-27-05, 02:35 PM The Drow--as a character race--seems to draw bad players like a magnet. There are literally dozens of horrible gamers that for some reason are attracted to Drow. I think that is why they get such a bad name.

~~~

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bubba333 04-18-05, 04:02 AM	Ok, I've been off the forums for a bit and was only skimming certain threads, but I noticed more than one "anti-drow" comments. I just wanted to say that although I can see annoyance at drow rangers with two swords (I'm not a Drizzt fan, BTW. Not a hater, but not a fan either), the drow in Eberron seem so different. I love their jungle-barbarian mysticism and what-not, which to me is a fresh take. I am however, a tad confused as to where they're from/ Are they from Khyber or the jungles? I read about the Umbragen, but they seem like a "sub-sub-race". Am I right? Admittedly I'm not on-the-ball about this, so any help is appreciated.
rwarner3701 04-18-05, 10:02 AM	I agree that the drow are much differant than the ones that are hated so much in other settings. They do seem to be better and although I played them as disiplined and honorable that is not the only way. They were "created" by the giants to be servents but I'm not sure if they just selectivily bred elves to make them better at night or if they introduced some small amount of demonic/abberation blood. I would say the ones around in the jungle have been living there since the giants were destroyed while any underground may have been further corrupted by Khyber. This allows for both to be present while they are seperate groups.
Dex The King 04-18-05, 10:35 AM	I like them too. I've never experienced the character cloning and unoriginality that others have cited as their reasons for hating drow. I used them as honorable, isolationists following a bit of a druidic culture. They defended ancient Xen'drik ruins, to keep the giants' aritifacts from falling into the wrong hands. They felt a strong connection to Siberys, and venerated the Silver Flame, though by another name, of course. As for their magical abilities (SR & spell-like abilities), I explained them as the result of experimentation done by their former masters. When one of them used their powers, I described it by saying intricately woven lines started to glow; like their whole skin was a large dragonmark. It worked out well.
Romulus LoneWolf 04-18-05, 11:45 AM	My take on the Drow is just to make Lolth less "chaotic insanely vicious", being the Scorpion God Vulkor's consort. The Drow society would still be female-dominant, but with males still considered important parts of society. I'd also divide them into seperate tribes/nations, some more villainous then others, with some trying to keep the Giants' mystic lore lost and forgotten, and others trying to uncover it to exploit it...
Targos 04-18-05, 01:19 PM	From what I gather from the Keith Baker thread, drow are to the umbragen as the valenar are to the arenal. The drow are the ex-slaves that live near the surface and hunt at night while the umbragen live deep in kyber and have developed their own culture. Merely cultural differences. I also recall that they were not created from the giants nor are they off shoots of the standard elf. The ECS says the giants enslaved the drow and the elves. The two are not so much subraces, but rather humanoids that both have the elf subtype much like the goblin and hobgoblin. Of course the drow have the kinship with scorpions and the umbragen are masters of shadow magic (I think).
Golbez57 04-18-05, 01:58 PM	In addition to the Umbragen article in Dragon, dark elf goodness penned by The 'Cow has also recently appeared in the pages of Dungeon. The article in issue #122 called "The Ring of Storms" (and other things Keith has said about the skin pigmentation of dark elves having more to do with magical events rather than genetics or the environment) hints at the possibility that the drow are descended from elves that delved into some seriously wicked stuff. I like the drow of Eberron, too. If one picks up a copy of one of Mr. Salvatore's recent hardcovers and holds it aside the cover of Races of Eberron, it should be clear that we're not retreading the same territory here. That said, I don't hope for a proliferation of dark elves on Khorvaire or in any place other than Xen'drik, and even there I hope that encounters with them are sporadic, unique, and therefore exciting.
JimmyBones 04-18-05, 06:12 PM	Trolling removed
Sturm Jaeger 04-18-05, 06:14 PM	Quoted trolling removed breaks out the torches and flasks of acid Troll!
deClench 04-19-05, 12:14 AM	I personally love the new Drow. I must say that the local Drow-bashing is getting rather tedious. The only basis for it seems to be some over-zealous players wanting to emulate one particular novelized character that they adored. Look, if you as a DM do not wish to harbor that brand of Drow in your campaign, then it is up to you to come to terms with your players and reach a compromise, not to purge the race from the MM. This fictional race should not be evoking this irrational hatred. I personally think that the previous incarnation of the drow were taken too far. They were fleshed out more than most other races and there was simply not much left for people to do anything original with. That may simply be my own lack of creativity, but the stereotypes were laid down and reinforced time and time again that there seemed to be other more interesting cultures in the game to play with. That does not make the drow race uninteresting or unusable or unworthy and I say more power to you if you like that form of Drow. Now we have a fresh opportunity. These new drow have been delivered to us without the baggage (except for the carry-ons of the players :) ) of the old dark elves. Of course the possibility is there for abuse my DM, player, and game developer alike to try to milk these dark outcasts for all they're worth and turn them into over-the-top, tired, no fun rejects. So work to make this race your own before someone tries to do it for you. Make them fun. If you didn't like them before, change their focus. There's been some thought-provoking material written on them so far; make the most of it! For my own campaigns, the drow of Eberron will not be the wholly evil thing that they once were. Granted that, as per the MM, they're typically evil; that can be worked around. These drow are tribal for the most part. They live in a harsh environment and have been treated harshly. Of course they may not look on outsiders with a generous eye. They're about survival. The Umbragen are a subset that were described very well in Dragon and are more cunning and magically-delicious than their more mundane counterparts -- these elves are the ones with agendas. The Umbragen are not likely though to simply go on killing raids of all things not twisted dark elf; they wouldn't do anything that doesn't look 4 or 5 steps ahead to the bigger picture; they seem very calculating. I look forward to seeing more on the scorpion god religion of these elves. I believe it's been said somewhere to approximate (or actually be) the Mockery? That may be a bit too evil for my taste, but per chance that is not the only deity worshipped by these people. I like the idea of making them more druidic/animistic in flavor (or at least with a strong showing); I think the CoW would find so many new converts with these drow (I'm thinking-up a drow member of the CoW character as I write this). They're a hard people. They tend toward tribal-style violence and maybe they are mostly looking out for number one and their family (read evil), but generally they have more pressing concerns (like staying alive) than world domination. Well I'm done rambling... and besides, I'm sure my views on them will evolve daily. I hope that some people that didn't like drow in their previous incarnation will give these new and "improved" specimens from Eberron another chance or at least, please, just don't acknowledge them in your own world and leave the rest of us to our fantastic fun!
Xaaon 04-23-05, 03:06 AM	I loved the old drow, as villains, Drizz't was a great character, but I considered him very unique. The Eberron Drow are again a wonderful villainous race, but I can see them worked into an adventuring party...IF the party is exploring out of Stormreach. The freeform alignments really help with that in Ebberon. Driders and "scorpion-driders" (I take these as Tlincallis - anyone else read that in RoE?) are also mentioned, and Driders are not considered outcasts...but the blessed of Vulkoor. Much different than standard drow, and I think I may make the males the dominant gender, or perhaps it's dual-gender dominated, perhaps the male and female "elders" govern the rest of the family unit by gender, an alpha female and an alpha male in each family group. I'm leaning toward the dual-gender family unit now I think.
Zalaz Mavi 04-23-05, 09:35 AM	The thing I like about them is that the lack of nationality and cultural unity allows for endless experimentation. I used models ranging from cargo cults to Amazons to cannibals for a variety of tribes. My only contention is with the term "Drow" itself. All the other races in Eberron received name changes — gnomes become Zil; dwarves, the Mror; etc. — except the dark elves. A few of the group found this disappointing as well. So we houseruled that in the vernacular, they're "dark elves." The collective name for the people, will be an esoteric, academic term; we just haven't hit on a term everyone likes yet. We've tossed around names like "Kenkari," "Sithi," and others from a variety of sources, but nothing has stuck for one reason or other...
Malicant 04-23-05, 09:47 AM	Hence the names used for Dwarves, Gnomes etc. were derived from they home country, I'd suggest to call the dark elves 'Xen' or something, if a different term is needed at all. And I totally like the ebberon drow, 'cause they don't have this 'you're powerful in our society as long as you assasinate anyone more powerful than yourself, effectively weakening the race and hampering any goals'-attitude. Chaotis Stupid was the alignment most fitted for these damn spider huggers. And I'm a little concerned about people who actuelly speak drow (or elven or klingon or.. I think you get the point).
Medesha 04-23-05, 03:23 PM	I've always liked drow. I like the new drow, too. I'm not much of a hater of anything, really.
D4rkchylde 04-23-05, 09:15 PM	I like Drow (http://www.rottface.com/images/mg_dr_01.jpg) too :D
Andrus_Shade 04-24-05, 01:12 AM	In addition to the Umbragen article in Dragon what dragon issue talks about the Eberron Drow?
midniteprism 04-24-05, 03:27 PM	The beauty of the new ECS, and the beauty of D&D as a whole, is the ability to create something new and make it your very own. I guess I've been blessed in the sense that most of the ppl I play w/ (are participate in the game I run) are ppl w/ very little knowledge of the game before i introduced them to it. So, no stereotypes and template Drow baggage was brought into the mix when they decided to play and thus I've breaded a sort of grey area when Drow are encountered in my campaigns. My players know of drow in the world as this sort of evil elvish race, but there are far more terrifiying and horrible things lurking in their own cities for them to be concerned about drow. ECS puts a further spin on it by making drow almost a non issue for the starting campaign as a whole. On a continent that few groups will begin their adventures on. I sort of think of the Drow now as a very territorial race, not evil, not good, just minding their own business and working toward protecting their own lands. Sort of a "you leave ME alone, I leave YOU alone" sort of aspect. Just my 2cents.
RadicalTaoist 04-24-05, 04:53 PM	breaks out the torches and flasks of acid Troll! Ah, what'd it say? I missed it.
Medesha 04-24-05, 07:16 PM	what dragon issue talks about the Eberron Drow? #330
D4rkchylde 04-26-05, 03:36 PM	Yes I like the spin Kieth Baker put on the Eberron Drow. Just look at the pic from the link I posted in my previous post. Drow with Dreadlocks and dressed as tribal warriors while standing in the noon-day sun. Thats just awesome, its a far cry from the Drow I am use to and I love it.
LordofIllusions 04-27-05, 02:35 PM	The Drow--as a character race--seems to draw bad players like a magnet. There are literally dozens of horrible gamers that for some reason are attracted to Drow. I think that is why they get such a bad name. ~~~