Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Black_Kaioshin 11-16-05, 01:56 AM	My character Jennsen Aoshar, an artificer 8/renegade mastermaker 1 is sitting on about 70,000 gp. What should I spend/make with it?
LaoKhanWei 11-16-05, 01:57 AM	Doomsday device.
BrainInAJar 11-16-05, 02:18 AM	Phase 1: Invest in small businesses until you have enough for a phylactory. Phase 2: Lichdom Phase 3: ???? Phase 4: Profit
aelryinth 11-16-05, 02:29 AM	Well, first thing is to get the Artisan feats so you can get a bonus in your production off the gold. Quite a nice windfall you have there. Then you ask the party if there are any magic items you can retain Essence on, to save your craft reserve, and custom make items for everyone. As for yourself, can't go wrong with UMD buffing tools, defensive magic, and/or some blast/buff wands. I expect that if other members of the party got similar windfalls, you are going to be doing a lot of equipping...and you should be, if at all possible. ==Aelryinth
Black_Kaioshin 11-16-05, 02:49 AM	I have all of the artisan feats at this time. The main reason I have so much money is the party. I have been crafting magic items for them at a 15% discount since 1st level. As time went by, they wanted bigger and better things, like +3 swords and the like. As a result, I am very wealthy and they are not. Thye have magic, but not cash. I like the idea of investing the money into business, but really, how much cash could I get in return?
LaoKhanWei 11-16-05, 02:55 AM	Does your DM allow you to sell things at or close to full price if you have a real shop? If so then your profits are only limited by XP and time.
Just another user 11-16-05, 03:08 AM	Phase 1: Invest in small businesses until you have enough for a phylactory. Phase 2: Lichdom Phase 3: ???? Phase 4: Profit with Renegade mastermaker he is becoming a living construct, lichdom would be redundant. my suggestion, ale and *****s, before you are at the point where you can't enjoy them anymore. ;) That, or a house in Sharn.
Black_Kaioshin 11-16-05, 03:10 AM	Heh, I have a feat from the Players Guide to Faerun that allows me to sell loot at 75% instead of 50, so I'm golden when it comes to that.
Splendide 11-16-05, 07:03 AM	Rebuild the bridge between Karrnath and Aundair, I forget the name. Charge a toll ;)
DarkWarriorKarg 11-16-05, 07:59 AM	A shield Guardian :D
MarkB 11-16-05, 10:17 AM	My character Jennsen Aoshar, an artificer 8/renegade mastermaker 1 is sitting on about 70,000 gp. What should I spend/make with it? 3/4 of an airship. Buy the rest in installments. Then take Leadership, and get yourself a renegade Lyrandar pilot cohort.
Altaris13 11-16-05, 10:50 AM	3/4 of an airship. Buy the rest in installments. Then take Leadership, and get yourself a renegade Lyrandar pilot cohort. Booyah. Hey MarkB, I'm quoting you here when I get this much cash later on. :D
Brastan 11-16-05, 01:20 PM	As a Renegaded Mastermaker you already have a decent craft skill, and if you can get involved with a business partner (a fellow PC) go setup a shop (see DMG II). You have enough money to get a business in Sharn and do an upgrade on it. Craft shops are nice because they are turn a decent profit for the cost of setup. They provide a monthly income that can be put to buying those costly spice-oil components. See Explorers Hand book for investing in Wayfinder Foundation Xen'drik expeditions. If you can become a member you can buy up to two shares at a time. Not as sure as the shop but its a good way to put your money excess money to use. As for items, any of the Artificer Items from MoE should be on your list. The goggles and the Belt are two I would seriously consider. Particularly the multi-armed version of the Belt with an Artificers Ring. [Edit]Oh, and enchant your Fist. Having a natural fall back weapon is good to have. Especially if you face opponents who have acid skins that destroy weapons. I almost lost my prized Guisarme. Further you should take any left over gold and put it a Kundarnk account. Other items: The standard Portable Hole, bag of holding, and other utility items. Maker or buy stat enhancement items. The key is your looking to improve yourself and your situation so you can go get more money.[Edit]
Lurkalot 11-16-05, 01:32 PM	Organise THE BIGGEST PARTY EVER! Seriously - get the best bards, a massive venue, oceans of liquor and a guest list that ranges from the Dhakaani to the Aerenal Elves. If you get everyone drunk enough together then you might just have made the greatest contribution to peace in Khorvaire since the Thonehold treaty (watch out for Dreaming Dark gatecrashers). I'm not kidding - it's what I'd do. (Just watch out for the resulting abberant dragonmarks later in the year)
Edymnion 11-16-05, 02:48 PM	I have been crafting magic items for them at a 15% discount since 1st level.:nonono: IMO, charging the party members anything more than cost is unnacceptable. These are the people that are keeping you alive, and you are charging them for it? Long as they pay the base cost for crafting, it costs you nothing to make stuff for them, and you get a stronger party in return. Personally, if I had to choose between buying something at full cost, and lining the pockets of a greedy PC for a 15% discount, then I'm just going to pay full price to somebody else just to spite the greedy little so and so party member that is profiting off of his friends. And yes, I do play an artificer. Been playing one for over a year now. And yes, I have made magic armor and weapons for everyone in my party. And no, I have never charged them for my services beyond the gp it takes me to craft them. And I have the Artisan feats, so I'm making items even cheaper than base cost, and I still only charge them what it takes for me to make them.
Altaris13 11-16-05, 03:57 PM	Ah, but any crafter is also investing time & resources (XP and/or reserve) on behalf of other people. As such, I see absolutely nothing wrong with charging my fellow players for items. I've even heard of Clerics who charged NPC spellcasting prices for healing...
Inkling 11-16-05, 04:33 PM	:nonono: IMO, charging the party members anything more than cost is unnacceptable. These are the people that are keeping you alive, and you are charging them for it? Long as they pay the base cost for crafting, it costs you nothing to make stuff for them, and you get a stronger party in return. Personally, if I had to choose between buying something at full cost, and lining the pockets of a greedy PC for a 15% discount, then I'm just going to pay full price to somebody else just to spite the greedy little so and so party member that is profiting off of his friends. And yes, I do play an artificer. Been playing one for over a year now. And yes, I have made magic armor and weapons for everyone in my party. And no, I have never charged them for my services beyond the gp it takes me to craft them. And I have the Artisan feats, so I'm making items even cheaper than base cost, and I still only charge them what it takes for me to make them.How is it fair that artificer loses hard-earned xp and craft reserve and not get some gold back for it? The artificer is merely trading xp/cr for gold...seems perfectly fine to me, in fact if anything a 15% markup is way too cheap. You aren't a Communist are you? :eek:
Hideous Phidias 11-16-05, 04:40 PM	Well I don't know if you spend much time around Sharn but that maybe the best place to send some of the money. I would start off with maybe a home, upscale of course something in the 5000-10000gp range. Then I think if I were an artificer I would invest some money into my homunculus, you know more hit dice and more then one. Then I think maybe in vest in a ring or two, something like the ring of Artificer or one of Evasion if you are the party theif it will hell with traps. the just maybe just bank the rest there are dwarven banking clans all over.
Inkling 11-16-05, 04:47 PM	I would take the Craft Construct feat and spend the money on a vicious golem. Add the construct augmentations from Dragon mag (335? 337?) and get Rudimentary Intelligence and/or extra arms and you can sit back and sip margaritas while your bodyguard crushes your enemies
Raziel_Brokodar 11-16-05, 04:47 PM	spend it on beer and booty! :w00t: uh..... and crafting/buying magic stuff...
Inkling 11-16-05, 05:04 PM	A Portable Hole full of beer...and not the suds from Breland either, but the good stuff from Korranberg.
Raziel_Brokodar 11-16-05, 05:08 PM	A Portable Hole full of beer...and not the suds from Breland either, but the good stuff from Korranberg. That and booty! :tongue:
Inkling 11-16-05, 05:26 PM	That and booty! :tongue:How about booty effigies? And not the duds from Korranberg but the good stuff from Breland. Yep, that has to be it: spend the money on a Portable Hole full of beer and a small army of fembot effigies.
Black_Kaioshin 11-16-05, 05:36 PM	Thanks for all the reply's, guys! I'm loving the ideas, especially the huge party. Up to date, we own two homes: an up-scale townhouse inSharn, and a house in Wroat. We've been concentrating on having a nice base of operations for a while now. I've been thinking of investing in ways to defend the house (traps and the like). I charge the other PC's money for a few reasons: I'm a little greedy, as an artificer, I need more cash than the other PC's do, and because of all the item creation I have done for the party, I am always a level behind. That last is the main issue. Everyone else in the party is 10 level, while I am ninth. Now, I could simply decide not craft for them anymore, but I feel that would be wrong. All of the stuff we find on adventures have been minor items that we all already have (we have 7 rings of protection +2, for instance). The only reason our hexblade has a nice +3 longsword is because of me. I am giving them a nice discount on expensive stuff, so they have had no reason to complain. I don't currently own the DMG II, so I am unfamilair with any of the material in it. Is it possible for you to tell me a little more about it, Brastan?
Raziel_Brokodar 11-16-05, 05:49 PM	How about booty effigies? And not the duds from Korranberg but the good stuff from Breland. Yep, that has to be it: spend the money on a Portable Hole full of beer and a small army of fembot effigies. construct booty? *shudders* that's odd stuff there man... LOL
Inkling 11-16-05, 06:42 PM	construct booty? *shudders* that's odd stuff there man... LOLHey with the beer-goggles on who's going to succeed on the Spot check to know it's an effigy? :D
Lurkalot 11-17-05, 02:16 PM	Thanks for all the reply's, guys! I'm loving the ideas, especially the huge party. "I spent a lot of my money on booze and fast women. The rest of it I just wasted." -Georgio B'Est, Human Expert 5. ;) Go with party. Acquiring the Construct Booty feat will just lead to an even bigger income you don't know what to do with.
LaoKhanWei 11-17-05, 03:21 PM	Huh? *Gasp!* Edymnion is a communist...EDYMNION IS A COMMUNIST!! I wont let you steal my hard earned social advantages!
cancerousmango 11-17-05, 03:26 PM	I like the idea of investing the money into business, but really, how much cash could I get in return? The DMG II, one of the more...semi-useful books, has rules for starting up a business. It's very tedious, and the returns are chump change to a higher level character.
LaoKhanWei 11-17-05, 03:55 PM	The DMG II, one of the more...semi-useful books, has rules for starting up a business. It's very tedious, and the returns are chump change to a higher level character. That depends on the amount of downtime in your game. A 10th level character can easily turn out 1,000 GP a month running a high risk business. If this is worth it or not depends on how often you get to make these checks. It'll probably be years before you start making profit on your investment but once you do you'll make very large profits.
walker on the horizon 11-17-05, 04:17 PM	Yo gust get 22,000 more gp and by an air ship. then pimp it out playa halla
Edymnion 11-17-05, 04:49 PM	Huh? *Gasp!* Edymnion is a communist...EDYMNION IS A COMMUNIST!! I wont let you steal my hard earned social advantages!Nah, I just don't believe in charging someone to do your job. Ya don't pay the fighter for every monster he kills, you don't pay the wizard for casting spells, and you don't pay the artificer for making items. Just me though.
ahiman 11-17-05, 06:01 PM	if it were me I would spend some money on the magic things I "need" then invest the rest. If you character is a longer living race then this is good because then you can watch your money grow for 100 years or more. that is just me though. Also I would buy a little place in a nice neighborhood in sharn, just for me and my characters GF soon to be wife. BUt that me.
Inkling 11-17-05, 06:32 PM	Nah, I just don't believe in charging someone to do your job. Ya don't pay the fighter for every monster he kills, you don't pay the wizard for casting spells, and you don't pay the artificer for making items. Just me though.Yeah but fighting doesn't burn the fighter's hard-earned experience points and put him a level lower than the rest of the party for doing so.
Necr0mancer 11-17-05, 07:43 PM	I think that an Artificer should be charging something higher then cost. They are losing XP/CR for it. And there is the whole idea on how valuable time is to a character. Then you also have to consider that he has spent feats to become better at crafting. He's going to put XP and feats into ... giving away stuff? The least the fighter can do is say "hey you made me my +3 sword cheap? Here, make yourself a ring of protection +3."
Edymnion 11-17-05, 08:55 PM	Yeah but fighting doesn't burn the fighter's hard-earned experience points and put him a level lower than the rest of the party for doing so.Well, neither does the artificer.
Wasteland Knight 11-17-05, 09:16 PM	My character Jennsen Aoshar, an artificer 8/renegade mastermaker 1 is sitting on about 70,000 gp. What should I spend/make with it? Make magic items. Some nice stuff for yourself and maybe a few choice items for other party members. Sitting on 70K in g.p. just isn't wise in D&D. Gold won't cure injuries, protect you from harm, or help you vanquish foes. You'd be much better off converting the gold into items you and your party could use. I'm assuming your playing in a standard type game where you're doing the usual D&D stuff (dungeons, slaying monsters, etc). If your're game is more of a roleplaying experience, then maybe invest in a business or some other plot device.
LaoKhanWei 11-17-05, 09:25 PM	Well, neither does the artificer. Hey, I don't know where you're from buddy but here in AMERICA we charge for our services. Economics is the new form of natural selection! Edymnion just wants to take hard earned gold away from the common man and give it to the beggers and the leppers! Go back to Canada Stalin! We don't need your kind here!
Inkling 11-17-05, 10:17 PM	Hey, I don't know where you're from buddy but here in AMERICA we charge for our services. Economics is the new form of natural selection! Edymnion just wants to take hard earned gold away from the common man and give it to the beggers and the leppers! Go back to Canada Stalin! We don't need your kind here!Yep, Eddy's a Commie alright. Nobody told him that the Giving Tree was a chump. He probably never takes any deductions on his taxes either...such a shame! Where did we go wrong with him? I blame the schools.
Raziel_Brokodar 11-17-05, 11:42 PM	Well, neither does the artificer. SNAP! Right, I don't think you can spend the experience and lose a level... plus even if you could, who'd be stupid enough to spend enough xp to lose a level? :doh:
Raziel_Brokodar 11-17-05, 11:43 PM	Hey, I don't know where you're from buddy but here in AMERICA we charge for our services. Economics is the new form of natural selection! Edymnion just wants to take hard earned gold away from the common man and give it to the beggers and the leppers! Go back to Canada Stalin! We don't need your kind here! HEY! don't make fun of Canada! :nonono: ...and don't be disrespecting Edymnion... :mad: ...and talking about Communism as if it was the Cold War? come on... :noway:
Black_Kaioshin 11-17-05, 11:58 PM	I didn't spend enough xp to drop me a level; the rules prevent anyone from doing that, I believe. No, what I did was craft stuff for the party and lowered my xp, while the rest of the part gained xp and leveled. I'm still about 3000 short right now. I would have to look at the DMG II in order to get a better feel for the business thing. Magic items are nice, of course, but I have some pretty wide-reaching plans, and I don't want to squander all of that gold on magic items. I appreciate the posts, but I would prefer that we move away from the ethical ramifications of me charging party members money to craft; I don't think it is qwrong, and the party members have made no objections, so there is no point in debating it. I don't think it is wrong, its not causing any game conflicts, so let's just leave it at that. Agree to disagree. Along the line of magic items, which would be good? I have a few bags of holding and a portable hole. I have recently burned out a wand or two, so I need to make some more; does anyone have any suggestions?
Inkling 11-17-05, 11:59 PM	HEY! don't make fun of Canada! :nonono: ...and don't be disrespecting Edymnion... :mad: ...and talking about Communism as if it was the Cold War? come on... :noway:These are jokes folks. Someone get Raziel some booty effigies, he seems tense.
ohako79 11-18-05, 12:22 PM	Right now I'm Artificer5/Reforged 2, here's what I have to say about crafting for free. My character's a warforged, and was more or less a soldier (for free) for a number of years. Making stuff for free makes me feel like I'm in the army again, so, no dice. Here's my deal a) You can buy stuff from me at retail price. b) You can get a 10% discount from retail if you agree to being autopsied by me when you die. If one of my inventions was the thing that killed you, then your heirs get your money back. c) This one time I made a scroll of reincarnation for free to use on our fallen paladin. It's good press. Forging a titanic business/luxury empire (not to mention a magic chainsaw) is expensive, darnit! As for what to do with heaping piles of cash...screw airship, go floating fortress (like the Argonth), convert it into a luxury airliner, and sell luxury cruises to Khorvaire's nobility.
Edymnion 11-18-05, 12:35 PM	I didn't spend enough xp to drop me a level; the rules prevent anyone from doing that, I believe. No, what I did was craft stuff for the party and lowered my xp, while the rest of the part gained xp and leveled. I'm still about 3000 short right now.Yes, but you see, when you are a level behind your party, you should be getting more xp per encounter than they do until you've caught up again. And if you're crafting so much that you have to start using your normal xp, and you're doing it for the good of the party, a good DM is going to start handing out more magic items you can Retain Essence on. You can craft for everyone in the party, including yourself, without losing any power or wealth, and still come out ahead, in all ways, without charging your party members a single copper more than it costs you to make it.
Altaris13 11-18-05, 01:54 PM	Edy, I must say that you are first person I've known to not charge his comrades even a little bit. Would you charge as a wizard or cleric for the same benefits?
Edymnion 11-18-05, 04:26 PM	Edy, I must say that you are first person I've known to not charge his comrades even a little bit. Would you charge as a wizard or cleric for the same benefits?Yes, crafting cost plus 25 gp for every xp spent (normal gold/xp exchange rate) or market price, whichever is lower. The game is about teamwork, not how powerful my character can be at the expense of everyone else. Anything that makes my party more powerful as a whole is good for the party as a whole, including myself. IMO, charging party members more than it costs you to make something ranks right up there with stealing out of their packs while they're asleep. These guys are supposed to be your best friends, your closest allies, and you're trying to make a profit off of them?
LaoKhanWei 11-18-05, 04:36 PM	Yes, crafting cost plus 25 gp for every xp spent (normal gold/xp exchange rate) or market price, whichever is lower. The game is about teamwork, not how powerful my character can be at the expense of everyone else. Anything that makes my party more powerful as a whole is good for the party as a whole, including myself. IMO, charging party members more than it costs you to make something ranks right up there with stealing out of their packs while they're asleep. These guys are supposed to be your best friends, your closest allies, and you're trying to make a profit off of them? I've tried that but there's this damn warforged there, all the time...watching... I can't even get close to their packs!
Lurkalot 11-18-05, 04:45 PM	Yes, but you see, when you are a level behind your party, you should be getting more xp per encounter than they do until you've caught up again. That's not quite the way it will work though. As the party progresses, they will continue to want more and better items. The artificer character is effectively a level behind all the time. Unless he stops crafting items for them so that he can catch up, in which case they begin to outgrow the items previously made. There is no free lunch here - the artificer chooses between personal power or party support. You can craft for everyone in the party, including yourself, without losing any power or wealth, and still come out ahead, in all ways, without charging your party members a single copper more than it costs you to make it. Before the player can get to the normal xp, he or she first burns through their craft reserve. This is something the character could use for his own benefit so if he applies it for the rest of the party, doesn't it balance things by them paying him gold? And if you're crafting so much that you have to start using your normal xp, and you're doing it for the good of the party, a good DM is going to start handing out more magic items you can Retain Essence on. As to providing more items for reclaim essence, the Artificer is essentially a tool for transforming gold and useless items into more powerful items. Follow the path you've just outlined, and you follow the path to over-inflating PC wealth. You can't "plug" the hole that is the artificer with more items. They just get turned into more party goods. The situation remains the same (artificer a little behind), but with more toys for the party than you had before. And that's aside from the value of the items if they decide not to reclaim essence, but just to sell them. I don't think you can really say to players, I'll give you more items if you promise to use them for such and such a purpose. This is just an interesting discussion though. The player has already said that his party are happy with this arrangement, so suggestions for what to spend it on if he really doesn't want to blow it all on a party (which I still think is the ultimate role-playing opportunity), then an item that offers a bonus to UMD, perhaps? EDIT: By the way - do I sense the presence of Americans in this thread? Something to do with considering communist is an offensive term. ;)
LaoKhanWei 11-18-05, 04:55 PM	But honestly, what's wrong with taking advantage of this situation? The other party members would just spend it on silly things like better equipment. All they care about is becoming more powerful. I'll spend it on important things! It's not so much that I'm stealing from them...more like I'm being entrusted with deciding what to do with party resources in exchange for item discounts. I'm like the treasurer, you see?
Altaris13 11-18-05, 05:35 PM	Yes, crafting cost plus 25 gp for every xp spent (normal gold/xp exchange rate) or market price, whichever is lower. OK, so how is that different for the Arti? He is investing just as much of him/herself into the group. Honestly though, I agree with the suggestion to buy an airship. According to EH, you can purchase airships that do not require Dragonmarks to operate, providing you can make the UMD checks.
icharbezol 11-18-05, 06:21 PM	Yes, but you see, when you are a level behind your party, you should be getting more xp per encounter than they do until you've caught up again. Regular encounter rules for XP are based off of the average of the party level as a whole, not the individuals' levels. So he really wouldn't be gaining more per encounter unless his DM was being really generous with him. Whenever my PCs get in this kind of situation, I usually throw a couple of single encounters to close in on the difference. Usually only happens with the Warforged cleric, and he's hunted by a bunch of Cannix guys so he's got some ample opportunities. And no, he doesn't charge for the items he makes his party, at all... I don't think his companions would take it very well if he decided to do so. As far as the subject at hand, I would say that you need to spend it on booze, women and song...for everyone in your group...have a party :)
Inkling 11-18-05, 07:18 PM	Right now I'm Artificer5/Reforged 2, here's what I have to say about crafting for free. My character's a warforged, and was more or less a soldier (for free) for a number of years. Making stuff for free makes me feel like I'm in the army again, so, no dice. Here's my deal a) You can buy stuff from me at retail price. b) You can get a 10% discount from retail if you agree to being autopsied by me when you die. If one of my inventions was the thing that killed you, then your heirs get your money back. c) This one time I made a scroll of reincarnation for free to use on our fallen paladin. It's good press. Forging a titanic business/luxury empire (not to mention a magic chainsaw) is expensive, darnit! As for what to do with heaping piles of cash...screw airship, go floating fortress (like the Argonth), convert it into a luxury airliner, and sell luxury cruises to Khorvaire's nobility.That's awesome dude! I gotta steal the "money back guarantee pending an autopsy" and use it as boilerplate in my contracts.
Inkling 11-18-05, 07:30 PM	And if you're crafting so much that you have to start using your normal xp, and you're doing it for the good of the party, a good DM is going to start handing out more magic items you can Retain Essence on.Oh I get it, Eddy's isn't a Communist, he's a Buddhist! The Buddha says: "Karma will be returned by the Deus Ex Machina in the form of a Benevolent DM." He may have a point there...my DM is kinda fat and bald...the very picture of a Happy Buddha. He may even have a clock in his belly, but I don't want to check.
nihility 11-18-05, 09:36 PM	Along the line of magic items, which would be good? I have a few bags of holding and a portable hole. I have recently burned out a wand or two, so I need to make some more; does anyone have any suggestions? A common money-making suggestion on the CO boards that doesn't revolve around exploiting broken spells goes something like this: 1) Get several wands of Shrink. 2) Get several storage systems (bags of holding, private demiplane, whatever). 3) Strip every dungeon/adventure site clean. 4) Profit. Huge copper statue? Shrink it, pack it out, and sell it. Melt it down if it's of something offensive or evil. Stone mural? Carve it out, shrink it, and sell it. Just killed 20 level 1 goblins? Take every single thing they own, including the fur pelts they were sleeping on, and sell it all. Everything can be sold for at least some small bit of cash. Just killed a dragon? Pack out the whole carcass and sell it piecemeal to armorsmiths, collectors, and anyone else with an interest. I'm sure that powdered dragon bones must have some alchemical use to someone. Take the doors. Take the hinges. Take the locks. Take everything that isn't nailed down, and pry up anything that is nailed down. You might find the dungeons you enter quite empty after pulling this once or twice, but it generates some nice cash in the meantime.
LaoKhanWei 11-18-05, 09:45 PM	I have a slightly different moneymaking strategy. It involves several things, mainly robbing the Kundarak Bank of Sharn...well...actually that's pretty much the whole thing. We have a few houndred security personel, magical traps and alarms and one slaughterstone behemoth to deal with. Tough but rewarding :)
nihility 11-18-05, 09:50 PM	IMO, charging party members more than it costs you to make something ranks right up there with stealing out of their packs while they're asleep. These guys are supposed to be your best friends, your closest allies, and you're trying to make a profit off of them? Even if this were considered true, that's still a perfectly good way to play a character provided that everyone has fun. As the OP has stated that the other players are fine with the arrangement, there is no cause for alarm or concern. Just thought I'd support what a few others had already said.
Lurkalot 11-19-05, 10:24 AM	Take the doors. Take the hinges. Take the locks. Take everything that isn't nailed down, and pry up anything that is nailed down. :rofl: I'm getting visions of Thief from 8-Bit Theatre. Why not just set up a permanent gate inside the dungeon and collapse the entrance on the way out too. When you get back, you can sell it as storage space for people in cramped apartments. Sorry... did I say sell? I meant lease. ;)
Edymnion 11-19-05, 03:34 PM	Regular encounter rules for XP are based off of the average of the party level as a whole, not the individuals' levels. So he really wouldn't be gaining more per encounter unless his DM was being really generous with him.Nope, default 3.5 rules say that lower level party members get more xp, and higher level characters get less xp. As in, if you've got a party of four PCs, three of which are lvl 5, and one of which is lvl 4, and they beat something and gain xp. Three of those characters use the normal xp of a CR 5 encounter, and each get 1/4th of that amount. The lvl 4 though gets 1/4 of the xp as if the party were lvl 4. It means anyone that falls behind will catch back up, and that anyone who gets ahead will lag behind until he's balanced out again. And I never said that the Artificer player had to be the sole source of all things magical for the party. Craft for as long as you have craft reserve. When you run out, STOP CRAFTING. The party isn't going to suddenly start lagging behind because you're not constantly crafting any more than a party without an artificer is doomed to have mundane gear for their entire career.OK, so how is that different for the Arti? He is investing just as much of him/herself into the group.Thats just it though. No, he isn't. The craft reserve is use it or lose it, and it refills every time you level up. There's no point to NOT using it whenever you've got the chance. It doesn't cost the Artificer anything that he won't get back and more in a level anyway. Its like saying you should charge the party every time you use an Action Point to help them out. No, because you get them every level, and you've got no reason not to use them when you need them. I'd charge for xp because it genuinely is putting your character behind the curve for a while. If you use every drop of your Craft Reserve, you're still just as powerful as everybody else. If you craft every last xp for the level you've got, everybody else is going to level and it will likely take you a level or two just to catch up. So don't craft more than you have Craft Reserve, and if you've already started dipping into your real XP, stop crafting until you get more Craft Reserve, and then don't craft more than your reserve's worth until you catch back up. Trust me people, I've been running an artificer character under this mindset for over a year now. She's not lagging behind in any way, she's still got some of the best gear in the party, and she's got a PAIR of warforged that she's keeping up to date with the latest enchantments. How? By rationing the Craft Reserve, and making liberal use of Retain Essence. For example, we fought elves that had +1 chainmail armor. None of us wore chainmail, so I used Retain Essence to suck them dry, and the two WF payed the base enchanting cost for me to "transfer" the +1 over to them. It works, and I know it works because I've been doing it for quite some time now :)
Crystalforged 11-19-05, 04:55 PM	Eh, I guess if you are limiting yourself to your craft reserve and retain essence you should probably be crafting at cost. However if you are dipping into your XP pool like the OP, then you really sould get some sort of compensation for it. Only giving a 15% discount on market price seems a little steep to me but you should be getting something since you are probably going to end up behind in levels even with the XP bump for being lower level. On what to spend all that money on... well how can you say no to an airship. Also you might want to consider some of the other elemental bound vessels from MoE. In particular there is one, the name escapes me at the moment, that you can use to glide through stone like an earth elemental. Anyone want to put bets on what the little dwarfies are going to make their bank vaults out of? :evillaugh
Raziel_Brokodar 11-19-05, 05:57 PM	These are jokes folks. Someone get Raziel some booty effigies, he seems tense. bah! ...fine, no problem then man...
Jaek 11-21-05, 02:32 PM	With my Artificer if party members want custom magic items created that's fine. I don't charge them anything above cost, however they are responsible for covering ALL costs other than time. The gp cost is covered in cold hard cash or magic items in trade that I would most likely use Retain Essence on for personal use. The XP cost is covered one of two ways. The first is that our DM allows use of the crafting pool concept where someone other than the caster can voluntarily provide as little or as much XP as they want, in this case 100%. This is mainly to keep the item crafter on par with the other members of the group be the caster an artificer, wizard, cleric or any other with item crafting feats. Mainly this is a holdover from when we just had the 3.0 PHB, DMG, and MM. The second method we use now is simply for the person who desires a custom to provide me with enough magic items to cover the XP cost for the custom item. For a simple example say they want Flaming added to a +1 longsword. Well that is going to cost 6000 (difference in price between a +2 and +1 item) resulting in a base XP requirement of 240 XP. Since I'm such a nice guy I give them the benefit of my feat knocking 25% off that resulting in 180 XP. That's enough to make an item worth 4500 gp. So if they provide me with 3000 gp and an item worth at least 4500 gp that I can sacrifice to Retain Essence then they get their +1 Flaming Longsword. Their total loss in cash and equipment is more than the actual price of the upgrade, 125% actually, but they do get exactly what they want rather than relying on random loot rolls. My earned XP and my Crafting Pool are for my character. Yes the items I create for my character's use assist the party, however those items are my resources to keep my class balanced with the others. Considering all the XP or Crafting Pool points I use to create disposable items, potions, scrolls, wands, and staffs are gone permanently through their use in assisting the party as a whole I'm not willing to sacrifice more of my XP directly to make items for them. I also have no problem telling them they may have to wait a bit for their order to go through if I already have something in the works. Hell in Eberron if they REALLY want something made and just can't wait there are quite a few magic shops in Sharn. Go talk to them. Sharn even has a magic item auction house. As far as what to do with extra mad cash laying around, make a wishlist of items you'd like. Healing items are always nice. A Wand of Web is useful even at higher levels and easy enough to make at your level. Actually that's another item I need to put together for myself. Very nice for crowd control even if the targets make their saves. Reread the spell description if you need to. Especially the bit about how the normal rules for entanglement apply, but it's even harder to move than normal entanglement. Look into good utility items. Check into that scrollcase in Magic of Eberron that holds 50 scrolls. Check Arms and Equipment for that infinite spool of rope. The Useful Buckler from Arms and Equipment. A +1 Buckler that can convert into 5 useful tools. How about a +1 Precise Seeking Self-Loading Light Crossbow? Fire into combat without a penalty, ignore any concealment, and fire as fast as your BAB allows like with a Bow. You're at two shots now as a full attack. A +Int item? A +Cha item? A +10 UMD item? That alone would have a price of 10,000. Also talk to your DM about hitting the auction in Sharn...more or less solo out of game if possible so it doesn't take away table time from everyone else in your group. Items at the auction tend to go for 60%-140% of their listed price according to Sharn: City of Towers. Your DM may modify this a bit if he's willing to go along with this idea. Side note, our DM has actually dealt with the auction by telling us to just go with 50%+1d8x10% to determine how much we can sell items for, and rolling some arbitrary DM roll to determine how many days before there is space available to get it up on the auction block. No we can't ever get the max of 140% of the listed price, but it's still much more generous than the standard 50%. If we don't want to wait for it to sell we can always dump it for the standard 50%. If you do have access to the auction buy some items low to use Retain Essence on to fuel the creation of custom items. You might be able to pick up some items that work as base items to build better custom items off of. Find a +1 Light Crossbow at 60% of the listed price at the auction? Well hey there's the base for that item I mentioned above at only 10% over the gp cost you'd pay anyway at no XP cost to you what so ever. Push the point with your DM if need be that item creation is a key ability of your class, and that you're just trading cash for XP. Remember, Artificers can make pretty much anything given time and the resources. You've got a lot of resources. Start thinking of situations in the past where you've thought "Man it sure would be nice if I could [fill in the blank]." Create an item to fill that role. Make some good utility items, make some purely fun BOOM type items, go crazy, have some fun and spend ALL of it on yourself.