I miss the gods... [Archive] - Wizards Community

I miss the gods... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bubba333
03-23-05, 03:38 AM Ok, so I'm playing Demonstone (no snickers! :D) and after invading a cool Yuan-ti temple and defeating a god, I started to miss such this in Eberron. For those who've played the game, the entire jungle part is SO Xen'drik pulp and dropping a god to his "doom" was just plain neat! I can see that as the climax of a long search for "Item X" and the subsequent stopping of its evil usage. I often wonder (especially given the power-levels involved in Sigil and the like) how to use certain places and things.
Charles Phipps
03-23-05, 03:51 AM Keith actually said he incorporated "monster Gods."

The Rajahs, the Quori's head, and some dragons who have achieved divine status.

Vol and the Lord of the Blades are also "worshipped" with priests so its possible to play them and folk like them as gods in the Conan sense with no less.
Bubba333
03-23-05, 12:44 PM I just love the idea of horrid gods breaching Eberron to wreak havoc, the only chance for the world's survival our brave heroes!
darkthought
03-23-05, 01:21 PM I just love the idea of horrid gods breaching Eberron to wreak havoc, the only chance for the world's survival our brave heroes!

*Starts chanting* Cthulu Cthulu Cthulu
jesterjeff
03-23-05, 01:51 PM Yeah, saddly one of the guys who alternately runs a game with my group uses the standard, " no motivation for where to go and what to do, then a god will Tell you.....it get's old how often we've met the Asgardians. I wish he'd at least let us deal with some Grecian Gods."

Now with Eberron you get a great chance for change. The 'Gods' those that are worshipped in mass, well they never show up to rub elbows, hells there's no 'I believe in god cause he had lunch with me last week" it's real faith. So when ya face off against some powerful evil cult of some unknown diety, it can be an epic level NPC mortal, an outsider passing him/her/itself off as a god, some far realm alien being that might as well be one, some pwerful monster worshipped by ignorant savages to the point that their faith manifests as divine powers........ you have a chance for Variety and new.

and tell the truth, who doesn't like that New God Smell?
ImmortalBlueMage
03-23-05, 08:58 PM Besides, there's nothing stopping DMs from using the gods of Eberron in a campaign if they want to. It's detracting a little from the "point" of the campaign, but this is D&D, you can run your own game however you want.

Personally, I've always felt that if a "god" was pitiful enough to be defeated by mortals then he wasn't anyone people should have been worshipping anyway...
Bubba333
03-23-05, 09:29 PM It's not that I want Pitch the Barbarian to rubs elbows with Dol Arrah, it's more that whole pulp schtick of racing to stop the evil cult from summoning "?". I guess that role could be handled with a powerful outsider that's almost godlike. In fact, what could be better than a nefarious outsider taking the ROLE of a god? Yes! Now THAT'S got some potential that's made even better because of the way Eberron handles gods. Hmmm, can you imagine a noble champion of the Sovereign Host becoming enthralled to an evil demon masquerading as Dol Durn, or another of the Host? Seeing this once proud and righteous person slowly twisted into a pawn of darkness, all the while him believing his path is just, only to have his master's mask torn free and his wretched slavery revealed? it's been done to death, but if it's pulp and that's Eberron! ;)
darkthought
03-25-05, 02:37 AM Boooyaaah! And to make it worse, the rightous one's own family has been enthralled by the outsider as well. And his friends have all be taken by succubi and incubi... wait, that's a bad thing, right? ;)

Once my group finishes the Written adventure books, boy, they're gonna hate me when I DM. :)
Bubba333
03-25-05, 03:16 AM Anytime evil forces pervert the good it makes for great drama. So, taking places like the Far Realm (which I LOVE!) and freakish overlords such as daelkyr, you've got some serious potential for bizzare stories.
Von Ether
03-25-05, 08:01 AM It's not that I want Pitch the Barbarian to rubs elbows with Dol Arrah, it's more that whole pulp schtick of racing to stop the evil cult from summoning "?". I guess that role could be handled with a powerful outsider that's almost godlike. In fact, what could be better than a nefarious outsider taking the ROLE of a god? Yes! Now THAT'S got some potential that's made even better because of the way Eberron handles gods. Hmmm, can you imagine a noble champion of the Sovereign Host becoming enthralled to an evil demon masquerading as Dol Durn, or another of the Host? Seeing this once proud and righteous person slowly twisted into a pawn of darkness, all the while him believing his path is just, only to have his master's mask torn free and his wretched slavery revealed? it's been done to death, but if it's pulp and that's Eberron! ;)

Am I missing something, or isn't that the whole schtick of the Dragon Below Cults and the Daelkyr? Ancient cults, seals that plug extra dimensional alein invasion? While I've done a more "bio-organic alien invasion" theme to my game, they'd fit in perfect for a cuthulu beasty.
Bubba333
03-25-05, 01:59 PM Yea, maybe. I just didn't get that "feel" initially. Things like the Styes and Far Realm articles helped me realize the potential.
Emirikol
03-26-05, 07:56 PM I can't tell you how refreshing it is to be in a world that isn't using gods & alignments as a crutch for theme...ahem...FR...WoG...

jh
Gurv
03-26-05, 08:29 PM It's not that I want Pitch the Barbarian to rubs elbows with Dol Arrah, it's more that whole pulp schtick of racing to stop the evil cult from summoning "?". I guess that role could be handled with a powerful outsider that's almost godlike. In fact, what could be better than a nefarious outsider taking the ROLE of a god? Yes! Now THAT'S got some potential that's made even better because of the way Eberron handles gods. Hmmm, can you imagine a noble champion of the Sovereign Host becoming enthralled to an evil demon masquerading as Dol Durn, or another of the Host? Seeing this once proud and righteous person slowly twisted into a pawn of darkness, all the while him believing his path is just, only to have his master's mask torn free and his wretched slavery revealed? it's been done to death, but if it's pulp and that's Eberron! ;)

That's the right idea! Eberron doesn't need real gods. Because when you are using gods in a game, what you are really trying to do is say: "Here is a foe who cannot be defeated by you in the normal way. Find a better plan."

Using gods in that role is like using a nuke to hold up a convenince store: completely overdoing it. And the major drawback to the plot that most DMs overlook is once you have been threatened by a god and prevailed, what's next? If you use something closer to being reasonable, like an Daelkyr or a Rajah, you have some wiggle room for the next threat to be even bigger. If the players are 10th level, it hardly matters if the BBEG is a well designed CR 20 or a god...they can't beat it in a fair fight. But learning that the unstoppable force they stopped against all odds is just someone else's minion really makes them shake.

If you really like the idea of "seeing a once proud and righteous person slowly twisted into a pawn of darkness, all the while believing his path is just, only to have his master's mask torn free and his wretched slavery revealed", then you should take a good look at the Radiant Idol in Sharn: City of Towers. It is ideal for exactly what you describe, because the whole reason they become what they are is because they pretend to be gods incarnate.
scwolf
03-27-05, 12:20 AM Besides, there's nothing stopping DMs from using the gods of Eberron in a campaign if they want to.

Exactly. The "Hey, this setting actually does have gods that intercede in the affairs of mortals, they just slipped down between the couch cushions" style of Eberron play.
Hellcow
03-27-05, 02:04 PM Am I missing something, or isn't that the whole schtick of the Dragon Below Cults and the Daelkyr?
That's certainly the idea. Both the daelkyr and rajahs are supposed to be creatures that form a one-on-one challenge for epic-level parties, and which possess the power to threaten cities, nations, or even worlds. I'll note that the daelkyr listed in the book would definitely be the lowest rung on their power scale; there are certainly unique daelkyr that are for more powerful (a subject that will be explored in the future).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bubba333 03-23-05, 03:38 AM	Ok, so I'm playing Demonstone (no snickers! :D) and after invading a cool Yuan-ti temple and defeating a god, I started to miss such this in Eberron. For those who've played the game, the entire jungle part is SO Xen'drik pulp and dropping a god to his "doom" was just plain neat! I can see that as the climax of a long search for "Item X" and the subsequent stopping of its evil usage. I often wonder (especially given the power-levels involved in Sigil and the like) how to use certain places and things.
Charles Phipps 03-23-05, 03:51 AM	Keith actually said he incorporated "monster Gods." The Rajahs, the Quori's head, and some dragons who have achieved divine status. Vol and the Lord of the Blades are also "worshipped" with priests so its possible to play them and folk like them as gods in the Conan sense with no less.
Bubba333 03-23-05, 12:44 PM	I just love the idea of horrid gods breaching Eberron to wreak havoc, the only chance for the world's survival our brave heroes!
darkthought 03-23-05, 01:21 PM	I just love the idea of horrid gods breaching Eberron to wreak havoc, the only chance for the world's survival our brave heroes! Starts chanting Cthulu Cthulu Cthulu
jesterjeff 03-23-05, 01:51 PM	Yeah, saddly one of the guys who alternately runs a game with my group uses the standard, " no motivation for where to go and what to do, then a god will Tell you.....it get's old how often we've met the Asgardians. I wish he'd at least let us deal with some Grecian Gods." Now with Eberron you get a great chance for change. The 'Gods' those that are worshipped in mass, well they never show up to rub elbows, hells there's no 'I believe in god cause he had lunch with me last week" it's real faith. So when ya face off against some powerful evil cult of some unknown diety, it can be an epic level NPC mortal, an outsider passing him/her/itself off as a god, some far realm alien being that might as well be one, some pwerful monster worshipped by ignorant savages to the point that their faith manifests as divine powers........ you have a chance for Variety and new. and tell the truth, who doesn't like that New God Smell?
ImmortalBlueMage 03-23-05, 08:58 PM	Besides, there's nothing stopping DMs from using the gods of Eberron in a campaign if they want to. It's detracting a little from the "point" of the campaign, but this is D&D, you can run your own game however you want. Personally, I've always felt that if a "god" was pitiful enough to be defeated by mortals then he wasn't anyone people should have been worshipping anyway...
Bubba333 03-23-05, 09:29 PM	It's not that I want Pitch the Barbarian to rubs elbows with Dol Arrah, it's more that whole pulp schtick of racing to stop the evil cult from summoning "?". I guess that role could be handled with a powerful outsider that's almost godlike. In fact, what could be better than a nefarious outsider taking the ROLE of a god? Yes! Now THAT'S got some potential that's made even better because of the way Eberron handles gods. Hmmm, can you imagine a noble champion of the Sovereign Host becoming enthralled to an evil demon masquerading as Dol Durn, or another of the Host? Seeing this once proud and righteous person slowly twisted into a pawn of darkness, all the while him believing his path is just, only to have his master's mask torn free and his wretched slavery revealed? it's been done to death, but if it's pulp and that's Eberron! ;)
darkthought 03-25-05, 02:37 AM	Boooyaaah! And to make it worse, the rightous one's own family has been enthralled by the outsider as well. And his friends have all be taken by succubi and incubi... wait, that's a bad thing, right? ;) Once my group finishes the Written adventure books, boy, they're gonna hate me when I DM. :)
Bubba333 03-25-05, 03:16 AM	Anytime evil forces pervert the good it makes for great drama. So, taking places like the Far Realm (which I LOVE!) and freakish overlords such as daelkyr, you've got some serious potential for bizzare stories.
Von Ether 03-25-05, 08:01 AM	It's not that I want Pitch the Barbarian to rubs elbows with Dol Arrah, it's more that whole pulp schtick of racing to stop the evil cult from summoning "?". I guess that role could be handled with a powerful outsider that's almost godlike. In fact, what could be better than a nefarious outsider taking the ROLE of a god? Yes! Now THAT'S got some potential that's made even better because of the way Eberron handles gods. Hmmm, can you imagine a noble champion of the Sovereign Host becoming enthralled to an evil demon masquerading as Dol Durn, or another of the Host? Seeing this once proud and righteous person slowly twisted into a pawn of darkness, all the while him believing his path is just, only to have his master's mask torn free and his wretched slavery revealed? it's been done to death, but if it's pulp and that's Eberron! ;) Am I missing something, or isn't that the whole schtick of the Dragon Below Cults and the Daelkyr? Ancient cults, seals that plug extra dimensional alein invasion? While I've done a more "bio-organic alien invasion" theme to my game, they'd fit in perfect for a cuthulu beasty.
Bubba333 03-25-05, 01:59 PM	Yea, maybe. I just didn't get that "feel" initially. Things like the Styes and Far Realm articles helped me realize the potential.
Emirikol 03-26-05, 07:56 PM	I can't tell you how refreshing it is to be in a world that isn't using gods & alignments as a crutch for theme...ahem...FR...WoG... jh
Gurv 03-26-05, 08:29 PM	It's not that I want Pitch the Barbarian to rubs elbows with Dol Arrah, it's more that whole pulp schtick of racing to stop the evil cult from summoning "?". I guess that role could be handled with a powerful outsider that's almost godlike. In fact, what could be better than a nefarious outsider taking the ROLE of a god? Yes! Now THAT'S got some potential that's made even better because of the way Eberron handles gods. Hmmm, can you imagine a noble champion of the Sovereign Host becoming enthralled to an evil demon masquerading as Dol Durn, or another of the Host? Seeing this once proud and righteous person slowly twisted into a pawn of darkness, all the while him believing his path is just, only to have his master's mask torn free and his wretched slavery revealed? it's been done to death, but if it's pulp and that's Eberron! ;) That's the right idea! Eberron doesn't need real gods. Because when you are using gods in a game, what you are really trying to do is say: "Here is a foe who cannot be defeated by you in the normal way. Find a better plan." Using gods in that role is like using a nuke to hold up a convenince store: completely overdoing it. And the major drawback to the plot that most DMs overlook is once you have been threatened by a god and prevailed, what's next? If you use something closer to being reasonable, like an Daelkyr or a Rajah, you have some wiggle room for the next threat to be even bigger. If the players are 10th level, it hardly matters if the BBEG is a well designed CR 20 or a god...they can't beat it in a fair fight. But learning that the unstoppable force they stopped against all odds is just someone else's minion really makes them shake. If you really like the idea of "seeing a once proud and righteous person slowly twisted into a pawn of darkness, all the while believing his path is just, only to have his master's mask torn free and his wretched slavery revealed", then you should take a good look at the Radiant Idol in Sharn: City of Towers. It is ideal for exactly what you describe, because the whole reason they become what they are is because they pretend to be gods incarnate.
scwolf 03-27-05, 12:20 AM	Besides, there's nothing stopping DMs from using the gods of Eberron in a campaign if they want to. Exactly. The "Hey, this setting actually does have gods that intercede in the affairs of mortals, they just slipped down between the couch cushions" style of Eberron play.
Hellcow 03-27-05, 02:04 PM	Am I missing something, or isn't that the whole schtick of the Dragon Below Cults and the Daelkyr? That's certainly the idea. Both the daelkyr and rajahs are supposed to be creatures that form a one-on-one challenge for epic-level parties, and which possess the power to threaten cities, nations, or even worlds. I'll note that the daelkyr listed in the book would definitely be the lowest rung on their power scale; there are certainly unique daelkyr that are for more powerful (a subject that will be explored in the future).