Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord Of Xoriat 06-15-05, 08:11 AM	Ok here goes nothing...I am throwing this out there to all for some help. If my question has been posed before please point me in the right direction... 1) Can a shifter M.u. who becomes a lich still shift??? 2) Any ideas out their on the 13th mark? I'm thinking of a house of Time i.e. Chronomancers..but any ideas are appreciated. 3)Lastly has anyone thought of the role of the 'Cabinet of Faces' in Eberron, and why haven't they taken over the world. A cabal of dopplegangers could surely get their act together to rig up a plan and rule.... As I said all help is needed right now as writers block has kicked in and I'm working on my P.C's (well one in particular who has lied to the others for the entire campaign) to resurrect the 1st Shifter Mu (in help against 'The Cabinet of Faces)..yadda yadda yadda process goes wrong?!? and lich is born
a_psh 06-15-05, 09:43 AM	2. It's Death, the mark of House Vol. 3. Because they don't want to. Doppelgangers are weird, like the Traveller. Massive amounts of direct or semi-direct temporal power are not really what they're after.
Ibbins 06-15-05, 09:52 AM	1) Can a shifter M.u. who becomes a lich still shift??? A lich retains all special attacks and qualities of the base creature, so I imagine it could. I'm thinking of a house of Time i.e. Chronomancers..but any ideas are appreciated. That is a decidedly random and insanely cool idea. I likey. But a_psh is right; the 13th mark is the mark of Death.
The White Sorcerer 06-15-05, 10:44 AM	1) Can a shifter M.u. who becomes a lich still shift??? 1) Does a gnome retain his spell-like abilities? 2) M.u.? What's that? 2) Any ideas out their on the 13th mark? Mark of Death, once carried by House Vol.
travellersside 06-15-05, 11:31 AM	1) Thee's no reason why not. After all, almost all of them are physical modifications, which are still valid in a lich's form. The dream thingy is also fine as it has no real link to the body at all. The only iffy one is as to whether the scent ability would make sense, bearing in mind that the nose is decaying. Still, I'm 95% sure that there are undead with Scent, so no reason that they can't smell. btw. M.U. = Magic User. Traditionally a wizard, but could apply to any one really. 2) The 13th Mark is officially Vol's Mark - the Mark of Death. There's even a bearer of it still in the world: Erandis herself. (She's d'Vol, therefore she bears a dragonmark. If she didn't, she'd just be plain old Vol) What the Mark does is subject to interpretation, but that's the official answer. 3) Umm. 2 different answers. 3a) We're talking about doppelgangers and other very similar people yes? Stealth, misdirection and subtlety? Ruling the world, as you put it, would have them at the forefront, where everyone can see them. Why would they want that? It takes a lot of effort to rule the world, and they've always struck me more as parasites than masters. 3b) See a. Who'se to say that they don't already control it? After all, when most of the monarch's advisors are replaced by exact duplicates and all his advice is 'tainted' they have influence. Look at Zilargo. If it turned out that dops were in charge of the whole ultra-secretive espionage-based Trust, who would honestly be surprised? Everyone knows that Kharnath is ruled by Kaius III, but very few people know that it's actually Kaius I, who's replaced his grandson. What if there's another layer? That actually it's a doppelganger named Zippy who runs the place. Those who find out are turned into the amazing undead that they have running around the place - perfect for eliminating troublemakers. And, don't forget, those undead are sentient, so what's to stop dops from imitating them if they take the fancy to it? Even though, at the end of the Last War, Breland was in the strongest military position, yet Boranel asked for peace, and got it. Why? Had he been replaced? Or were his advisors secretly cooperating with the advisors of the other monarchs? As I said, who can say that they don't already rule the world? And even if you can't find proof, doesn't that simply reinforce the idea that they're doing a very good job of covering it up? Conspiracy theorists of the world unite! You know full well that all the others are plants!
Isran_Imrador 06-15-05, 11:43 AM	i posted any idea on The mark of Time last year...not using it in Eberron but... Mark of Time L: Least: Haste G: Siberys: Time Stop
DoveArrow 06-15-05, 01:22 PM	Can a shifter M.u. who becomes a lich still shift??? A lich retains all of the special attacks of the base creature. So yeah, it could still shift (though I imagine it would be a rather disgusting alteration, with the ripping of rotting flesh that is no longer as elastic as it was in life).
Sakeninja 06-15-05, 01:41 PM	i read somewhere, i think Libre Mortis, that druids lose their wildshape if they turn undead. i would look to that tome for info on undead and shifting.
DoveArrow 06-16-05, 11:54 AM	Keep in mind that Libris Mortis is a D&D supplement and that you 'should' rule in favor of the Core Rulebooks whenever there is a dispute over a call. In this case, the Monster Manual clearly states that liches retain all the special attacks of the base creature and thereby the rules in the Monster Manual take precedence over anything included in the Libris Mortis. Of course, you could always rule in your own game that this isn't the case, but it's something to keep in mind.
Hellcow 06-16-05, 12:07 PM	3. Because they don't want to. Doppelgangers are weird, like the Traveller. Massive amounts of direct or semi-direct temporal power are not really what they're after. With the Cabinet of Faces, this is the critical issue. The CoF IS tied to the Traveler, and the goals of the Traveler are never clear or simple. They don't want power for power's sake. With that said, as others have suggested, how do you know that they DON'T already rule the world, and have simply chosen to rule it in exactly the same manner that their human countparts would? How do you know that the entire village you're in isn't entirely composed of doppelgangers and changelings - and, for that matter, that the buildings themselves aren't just enormous mimics? The Cabinet of Faces are more interested in shaping reality than in ruling the world - and shaping reality can take many forms.
a_psh 06-16-05, 06:05 PM	With the Cabinet of Faces, this is the critical issue. The CoF IS tied to the Traveler, and the goals of the Traveler are never clear or simple. They don't want power for power's sake. On the note of shapechangers ruling the world, Keith (or anyone else who has cool ideas to share), How exactly do the Cabinet, the shapeshifting dragons, and the Lords of Dust (and the Dreaming Dark, given that possessing people secretly is a lot like shapechanging) interact? How strongly are these groups aware of each other (pretty strongly, I'd bet, as they've all been around), and how often do they find themselves interfering in each others' plans? Are they ever allies in anything other than a working-towards-the-same-ends-independently kind of way? Other than the obvious dragons vs. rakshasa thing, what sort of opinions do they have of each other?
Kinger 06-16-05, 06:15 PM	I have a sneaking suspicion the dragons and Lords of Dust view the Quori as upstart wannabes. Imagine, if you will, some rajahs lounging around in Khyber, stroking their beards and clucking their tongues. "I say, old bean, these confounded dream-creatures wouldn't know a conspiracy if it bit them in the behind. We were hatching plots and intrigue before they even learned to lie! Speaking of which, how goes your attempt at usurping the worshippers of the Shadow? Oh, jolly good."
Setherial 06-17-05, 03:40 AM	i posted any idea on The mark of Time last year...not using it in Eberron but... Mark of Time L: Least: Haste G: Siberys: Time Stop I haven't actually used marks yet myself so I only vaguely remember what powers were associated with them but from what I remember those powers were prety minor. This is of the scale. A least dragon mark enabling Haste (awesome 3th level spell) would be very unbalanced. Time Stop.... not even going there... nice idea though ;)
aelryinth 06-17-05, 04:35 AM	Also, keep in mind that there are ways to detect shapechangers, racism to rise against them, and non-shapechangers vastly outnumber Dops. Not every dop can possibly have access to powerful enough magic to avoid detection...and then someone is going to do just that, reveal their masquerade, and probably kill them. The Cabinet is on the Council of Sharn, but it is likely deluding itself that the other members of the Council don't know that it isn't the same Shapeshifter taking the same seat and name. The same coin that it uses to hide an identity can be used by opponents to overcome that protection. Shapechangers do NOT do well in positions of important, public interest, because their nature can become readily visible to those looking for an advantage. A shapechanger does best staying out of the limelight, unobtrusive, forgetable, and manipulating. Slay and replace is fine in theory, but gets a lot of stupid dops killed if they choose powerful people to try it with. The last thing dops want is to start a purge of their kind, especially after seeing how effective the last one was. ===Aelryinth
a_psh 06-17-05, 09:20 AM	Well, the Tyrants are on the Council. Their interests are somewhat more straight-forwardly worldly that the Cabinet's, most of the time. Not that there can't be a little overlap between the two, mind you... But, according to a variety of sources, it seems to me that the Cabinet is just that: *powerful* doppelgangers and changelings that can get away with this masquerade (take a look at the abilities of the Cabinet Trickster in RoE, for example). Certainly not your average shapechangers by any measure.
MarkB 06-17-05, 10:50 AM	I haven't actually used marks yet myself so I only vaguely remember what powers were associated with them but from what I remember those powers were prety minor. This is of the scale. A least dragon mark enabling Haste (awesome 3th level spell) would be very unbalanced. Time Stop.... not even going there... nice idea though ;) Actually, for the Siberys mark (the one-in-a-million superDragonmark that barely anyone ever manifests), that isn't too overpowered. As for the rest, how about this: Least: Timekeeping 2/day (lets you know the exact time and date, adjusted for longitude) or Gentle Repose 1/day, and bearer gains +2 bonus to Initiative Lesser: Haste 1/day or Augury 2/day Greater: Permanency 1/day* or Accelerate Magic 1/day * Requires expenditure of XP component Accelerate Magic is an ability unique to this dragonmark. It creates a 20-foot emanation centred on the caster, duration 1 minute/level (Dismissable). All duration-based spell effects within the emanation (including area effects whose centre of emanation is within this ability's radius) are accelerated. This has two effects: First, the spell's total duration is halved. Second, any periodic effects caused by the spell (such as damage inflicted once per round, or once-per-round saving throws) double in frequency - so any effects that occur once per round will now occur twice each round (assuming the spell still has two rounds of its original duration left). For instance, if a person affected by a CL 9 Melf's Acid Arrow were within this effect, he would take 4d4 points of damage in the first round, and 2d4 in the second, after which the spell would end. If he were affected by a CL 6 Hold Person, the spell's duration would be 3 rounds, and he would receive two Will saves each round to break free.