Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dirkk 03-07-05, 03:16 PM	After running Forgotten Forge and SotLW with some friends and my gf I want to make my own eberron campaign. I assume most of you guys won't like my idea but basically i'm going to prepare characters for them in advance. Why? Because i let them did make their previous characters themselves and those were constructed poorly with very few background and personality, not even a good powergaming combo. However, I can't blame them since none of them read the players handbook or the eberron books. Unfortunately I myself am not that experienced myself (altho alot more experienced with the rules then my group) so i'm looking for some ideas for some good eberron characters. I don't want any of the new 4 races because i want to wait till i get the upcoming races book. When i have it i might let some players replace their char with a forged, changeling or shifter. I will try to make as much characters as possible so there is a wide choice. They could even switch characters and when a new person enters the group he could take a character out of the remaining char sheets. I'm going to give them a short background, personality, motives and connections with eberron organisations. I'd like to have most races and classes represented however i'm going to exclude wizards and clerics because none of them know the rules enough and don't have acces to players handbooks. IMO giving these chars to inexperienced players is asking for trouble in the rules department. I'd like to focus on roleplaying, so i don't want to explain spells all the time. I also try to steer clear of characters with marks that belong to houses that are quite complex (cannith for example) so far i've only worked on race/class/region combinations this is what i got so far (chars will be lvl3 probably: - rogue halfling of talenta with a dinosaur (handle animal, connections to house vadalis?) - valenar elf bard (if noone picks this char it will be an awesome NPC) - Mror dwarf fighter with Kundarak mark (favored in house and marks) - a (gnome?) sorceror (not to sure what to pick as a sorceror but i need one) - gatekeeper half-orc druid with quarterstaff and tons of strength (only female char, my gf her char) - Human paladin of the silver flame - Human rogue, lhazaar principalities (pirate kinda char) - Human Seren Barbarian - some kind of sentinel marshal (can i combine this with the paladin idea or would this be too much?) sorry if this is a tad too long and sorry for my not too perfect non-native english. Dirk
Vharuck 03-07-05, 03:36 PM	Comments in red. - rogue halfling of talenta with a dinosaur (handle animal, connections to house vadalis?) House Vadalis is a human house, and if you bought something from them you're just a customer, not a connection. Plus I don't think they sell dinosaurs. And barbarians are more likely to ride dinosaurs. - valenar elf bard (if noone picks this char it will be an awesome NPC) Sounds OK. - Mror dwarf fighter with Kundarak mark (favored in house and marks) Good good. - a (gnome?) sorceror (not to sure what to pick as a sorceror but i need one) A gnomish diplomat/sorcerer sounds good. - gatekeeper half-orc druid with quarterstaff and tons of strength (only female char, my gf her char) Very nice, very fitting. - Human paladin of the silver flame Good ol' Flamers. - Human rogue, lhazaar principalities (pirate kinda char) Nice touch. - Human Seren Barbarian I'm gonna say no. Serens use longboats almost incapable of travelling to Khorvaire. However, should one have come back with the famed Morgrave professor who was the only one to return from Seren Island, it may work. - some kind of sentinel marshal (can i combine this with the paladin idea or would this be too much?) I'd say pick up the classes you didn't include: clerics, monks, and rangers. A monk of Dol Dorn or a half-elf cleric of the Sovereign Host would do well. sorry if this is a tad too long and sorry for my not too perfect non-native english. Dirk Note that all my comments are meant as criticism only, and you are free to ignore them as you will.
Dirkk 03-07-05, 03:56 PM	rogue halfling of talenta with a dinosaur (handle animal, connections to house vadalis?) House Vadalis is a human house, and if you bought something from them you're just a customer, not a connection. Plus I don't think they sell dinosaurs. And barbarians are more likely to ride dinosaurs. P203 in the ECS under the industries title says clearly that vadalis has a growing interest in the exotic creatures raised, captured and hunted by the halfling nomads. hmm maybe i'm better off making him a ranger... - Human Seren Barbarian I'm gonna say no. Serens use longboats almost incapable of travelling to Khorvaire. However, should one have come back with the famed Morgrave professor who was the only one to return from Seren Island, it may work. why does the ECS then gives Seren barbarians as an option under argonessen? they have feats like dragon totem and they advise the dragon disciple prestige class for them. Altho i guess you're right about the longboat thingie, I guess i'll need to come up with a good background for him... Anyway thanks for pointing out, also extra character ideas are always welcome
Siduakal 03-07-05, 03:57 PM	Okay.. First, I have to say before I give my suggestions.. You should really have them read the PHB and ECS.. Even if its just stuff that will involve them.. I'd say do it this way. Decide the roles you need. Have them fill them first come first serve. IE: Sponge-Melee (Paladin, Fighter excel at this), Damage-Melee (TWF Ranger or Barbarian), Healer (Artificier can fill this role with potions/scrolls, but Cleric/Paladin/Druid may work better), Arcane Blaster(Wizard, Warmage[From Complete Arcane], Sorcerer) Then after those primary 4(If you have more than 4 players).. Support (Bards fit this, as do Rogues) Now once they pick what they WANT to be, ask them "What race?" "Well what else?" "Okay, so why does your character adventure?" "Why do you fight with (X weapon)?" (Or "Why do you follow (X Diety)?" if a cleric or "Why do you specialize in (X School)?" if a Wizard) Just ask them CONSTANT questions Make sure to have them write down answers, or you can. This is how I've created all my decent chars, was my DM doing this. He offered a few suggestions along the way, but most of it I just spit out as I was asked. However, if you REALLY don't want to do that.. - rogue halfling of talenta with a dinosaur (handle animal, connections to house vadalis?) Make the Talenta Halfling a Barbarian, Druid, or Ranger. No connections to Vadalis. - valenar elf bard (if noone picks this char it will be an awesome NPC) BAD IDEA! Only the Keepers of the Past are really Bards/Clerics. They are more or less leader types. The typical Valenar is a Ranger or Fighter. They're a race all about warfare. If you want a Bard, I'd say consider a different race. (Though with less than 4 other people besides the bard, bards aren't that vital.. you really need other things more than a bard til you have a tank, healer, and nuker) - Mror dwarf fighter with Kundarak mark (favored in house and marks) Ehm, if you really want.. But the Dwarves with the mark are more.. bankers. If you want a truly bad ass fighter, make a Deneith marked Human Mercenary or a Valenar Elf Fighter/Ranger.. or a Warforged. - a (gnome?) sorceror (not to sure what to pick as a sorceror but i need one) I'd consider a Wizard instead of a Sorcerer. Gnome is a good race, though. - gatekeeper half-orc druid with quarterstaff and tons of strength (only female char, my gf her char) This one works, but I'd say not to limit any of the chars to gender. Let them pick their char based on concept.. not on its genitalia. - Human paladin of the silver flame That works. - Human rogue, lhazaar principalities (pirate kinda char) Doesn't quite work if you want him to be a Lhazaar Prince.. Just a pirate, sure. But not a prince. Princes earn their renown the hard way. A sneaky guy is not likely to get hundreds of followers. - Human Seren Barbarian This works. Read the dragonshard on Seren, though. And give him a good reason to of left Seren. (Maybe even say a dragonspeaker told him it was part of the prophecy and that he had to go protect someone.. I don't know) - some kind of sentinel marshal (can i combine this with the paladin idea or would this be too much?) Sentinel Marshal = House Deneith. A Paladin of the Silver flame is not goin to be in Deneith. I wouldn't merge the two ideas. You're lacking any healers. Be it Artificier, Druid, or Cleric. make set roles, and then make concepts to pick from in those roles.. And only allow one of each role.
nyysjan 03-07-05, 04:03 PM	personally i'd suggest Halfling Barbarian Gnome Rogue (assassin style:D) Dwarven Artificer with dragonmark and Half-Orc Druid with alligator animal companion Aerenal elvish Necromancer that has been driven of from his home practicing the dark arts might also be interesting and Gnome Bard (Like James Bond but does not get caught evertime he goes out of his home)
Siduakal 03-07-05, 04:09 PM	Role A: Primary Tank/Melee Sponge Human Paladin of the Silver Flame Adamantine Warforged, formerly a soldier for (Insert Nation) he has now begun adventuring because he knows nothing but war. Human Fighter - Sentinel Marshal of House Deneith (Medium or Heavy Armored may be best, but it's your call) Role B: Secondary Tank/Melee Damage Dealer Seren Barbarian, sent by the Dragonspeakers to protect another person in your party who is going to fulfill a role of importance in the prophecy Valenar Elf Ranger, adventuring in the footsteps of his ancestor seeking to bring his patron ancestor great glory --- Monk Shifter Barbarian of the Eldeen Reaches Role C: Arcane Blaster Gnome Wizard Seren Sorcerer (With Draconic Heritage), same reasons as the Barbarian of Seren. Kalashtar Psion, he left Sarlona so that he could warn others of the dangers of the Inspired. Role D: Healer Human Artificier of House Cannith, (You really gotta know what they're doin to know why the marked people are involved - this character makes it so that the Adamantine Warforged has an easy tie in) Halfling Druid of the Talenta Plains Shifter Druid of the Eldeen Reaches Human Cleric of the Silver Flame Halfling Cleric (NOT TALENTA HALFLING) of House Jarasco, carries the Mark of Healing Role E: Varying Support Elven Bard of House Phiarlan, carries the Mark of Shadow Elven Rogue of House Thuranni, carries the Mark of Shadow Changling Rogue, raised in the streets of Sharn. etc...
DanjaNinja 03-07-05, 04:11 PM	Let them play what they want. If you don't approve of their characters, don't shove some sheets in their face and say, "You're playing this!" If you're worried about ineffective characters, you can always take some time to help them out during creation. Before they choose a feat, skill, spell, etc., ask them if and how they intend to use it. If they can't come up with an explanation or it's a stretch, recommend something else. If you're worried about roleplaying, then just ask them some simple questions to get them thinking about the character. "Where did you come from?" "Why are you adventuring?" "What are your long-term goals?". Tell them to try and keep these things in mind when playing their characters. If they do something you would consider out of character, point it out to them. They're only going to learn by experience. But most importantly, let them play what the want. It's much more satisfying to play a character that you made yourself than one that was made for you. Also, you should definitely get them to read the Player's Handbook, even if only the sections pertaining to their characters.
Gunrock 03-07-05, 04:23 PM	Any Race / Class combination can be great if built correctly. Siduakal mentioned roles. That is the most important aspect of a pre-built party, filling all the roles. You'll need a melee tank, an blaster, a healing battery, and a trap detector for most games. I've seen this done with 4 Cleris and with the archetypical Fighter / Wizard / Cleric / Rogue. You have most of this already. The race / house discrepancies have been mentioned. As has been pointed out, you'll need a Druid or Cleric (unless everyone takes the Rapid Metabolism feat from Expanded Psionics Handbook). You have Rogues already. If you do have Expanded Psionics, there are some fun classes in there. If you have Complete Adventurer you may want to do something with the Scout. They are not broken (over-powered) or weak, they are just weird and require some thought to play effectively. And remember, almost everyone fears the Dwarven Barbarians (it's a tradition).
nyysjan 03-07-05, 04:29 PM	And remember, almost everyone fears the Dwarven Barbarians (it's a tradition). personally i'd be more afraid of Dwarven banker or Gnomish accountant :D whats the barbarian going to do, hit me with an axe, but those others can make my life into a living hell
Siduakal 03-07-05, 04:32 PM	Yea, no kidding.. I can stop an axe, I can't stop my funds from vanishing into the vaults of House Kundarak.
Dirkk 03-08-05, 12:01 PM	Hmm i've been thinking alot today about what was posted and have come up with the following ideas... I dunno who posted it again but yes, you're right, i shouldn't just give the players a completely predetermined character. So i'm going to do it differently. I also read the dragonshard about seren barbarians again and this too gave me some ideas. What about an all-out Seren barbarian party? A mighty quest that will ultimately end with fighting against Vol and her many many minions. I will give them the information of their secluded tribe and give them information about the Serens and what the draconic prophecy is. That way their characters won't have to deal with the entirety of khorvaire at once but learn it from the viewpoint of a savage. Oh i also want to clarify that my players are simply not interested in reading through the eberron and phb books. They're all ppl with busy schedules and many many hobbies. They like RPGs tho and thats what matters. I'll limit them to human then and some classes but which ones? I'd say -barbarian -sorceror -rogue -? I also want to send them a questionnaire in a e-mail that they can fill out with roleplay info about their character. Does anyone know a good one somewhere online?
Gunrock 03-08-05, 12:17 PM	Fighter Cleric Druid Ranger Basically Paladin, Monk and Wizard are the only Core Classes that should be exclued; and I can make solid arguements for allowing Palladin and Monk (and I bet someone could argue Wizard well too). I like the idea of introducing everyone to the setting as outsiders. It's a great idea that I will probably use for another game. Good Luck For Players that don't have the time / desire to go through the books, Rogues, Rangers, and Barbarians are the simplest classes. Casters all take more time. I suggest that you help the casters choose their spells. Fighters need thought and an understanding of the rules to be really effective.
Dirkk 03-08-05, 12:43 PM	From the dragonshard and the books I kinda see the Serens as a indian kinda culture...does anyone had the same idea? What dragon would I give their clan affinity with? Maybe Vol her dragontype? Btw where do i find Vol her dragontype! Can't find it :(
Siduakal 03-08-05, 01:14 PM	Umm dude.. If you want Blood of Vol, play Karrnathi characters. But Seren? -shakes his head- First off.. Seren are Barbarians and Sorcerers mostly. A few Clerics. A Seren Rogue is far-fetched, and that's being polite.. Same for a Seren Fighter(THat's extensive combat training.. Where as Barbarians learned from living in a harsh environment.. Fighters are raised from child hood to do what they do).. etc.. You have to pick something that opens up more classes. Now if they don't want to take the time to read the PHB, do not allow Monks, Wizards, Bards, or Paladins (That's just my opinion) I'd recommend sticking to Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue namely. Maybe Cleric(But they have to read a good deal to understand clerics, clerical domains, etc.. and Clerics in Eberron are a special thing altogether)... Maybe Ranger (More finely toned than Fighter, they gotta read spells)... Maybe Sorcerer. But those who DO NOT want to read a lot, don't let them play anything but Fighter, Barbarian, or Rogue.. Because really those are the only ones you can understand at a glance imo. Now as for region.. Seren just doesn't work, they aren't likely to leave their island in a pack. It just isn't likely at all. One or two from Seren, maybe. But a pack? It's just not feasible. If you have The Expanded Psionics Book, you could have them play Kalashtar.. ANd do a Dreaming Dark oriented Campaign. (Kalashtar are best at Psionics, though, mind you.) But with them not wanting to read, you really are extremely limited. The having them all be from one nation is a good idea. Consider Cyre-Displaced. (Guys who were from Cyre, and it got destroyed and turned to the Mournland.. But they weren't in it at the time or survived..somehow) Consider Breland. (Sharn is a city that is massive.. it has a lot of stuff you can do, and you can do an entire campaign in Sharn) Consider Talenta Plains (Barbarians, Rangers, Druids..mostly.) Consider Karrnathi (Necromancer oriented Wizards, Sorcerers, Fighters, Rogues, etc... No Paladins from here though, that's just wrong. Paladins are the rarest thing in Eberron, and not likely to be from Karrnathi) Consider Darguul even (You can do an all Hobgoblin/Goblin/Bugbear campaign then, and as DM you can choose to get rid of the Hobgoblin level adjustment since it's not justified -- these 3 races are in Monster Manual) Consider all the same race of a specific House
Siduakal 03-08-05, 01:17 PM	Also, Vol is a Lich.. (Neutral Evil Lich, Elf Half-Dragon, Wizard 16) They are not exactly dragon-ish.. They're pretty much undead guys.
Dirkk 03-08-05, 01:37 PM	Hmm i do have the Sharn book...I could restrict them to some races (human, half-orc etc) and maybe allow the deneith dragonmark. And then only allow fighters or rogues (maybe ask them if ,given this situation, they would want to read the phb and some info on eberron so they could play something else?). They could be some kind of warriors, mercenaries or city watch or just plain thieves and roleplay from there in Sharn, doing the odd quest outside the city as they grow in fame and power... Although I still want them to start out as outsiders. How do I do that then? Damn soo many options...
nyysjan 03-08-05, 01:40 PM	make a Gnome accountant they are real scary :P
Siduakal 03-08-05, 01:55 PM	Cyre-Displaced are outsiders everywheres. Their home was destroyed and the war has only been over 2 years. The tensions are still somewhat high. Cyre-Displaced can be any classes, but I wouldn't make them of a house (That's just one more thing to learn about) The ones who don't want to read at all, make them Fighters.. since that takes hardly any reading (It's really that simple)
Doctor X 03-08-05, 02:20 PM	Hey... I have an idea. Instead of limiting their options so early on, maybe you could give them the books and let them read into it themselves? This isn't just your game. Everyone is supposed to be taking part in it, and believe me, they'll have a lot more fun doing so if they have a say in the creation of their characters and the style of the campaign. The're new... they don't know the rules or the setting. So, it's your job to help them out. Sit down with each of them and work out a character. Make suggestions every once in a while. If there's something that the party particularly needs, you can try to nudge them towards it if you want, but don't force ANYTHING on them. Believe me. You'll be doing more harm than good if you tried that. People rarely enjoy playing characters that aren't their own.
Siduakal 03-08-05, 02:22 PM	FYI.. I just bought D&D um.. December 2004. It isn't hard to learn with your DMs help. (I just bought Eberron in January 2005) Doc pretty much helped me figure out a good majority of it. And I read up on the rest of the stuff I was curious about.. Now I sometimes correct him...
Dirkk 03-08-05, 02:30 PM	For Christs sake, if i'm saying they don't want to put the effort in to read the books why don't you just believe me? They ASK me to make their characters all the time you know what? frag it, Everyone starts out as a commonerish kinda person in a hood in sharn, we'll freeform from there, throwing levels out the window and just adding stats as we see fit. That will probably be the most fun for everyone involved. My players just aren't interested in a rules heavy rpg I'm afraid.
Siduakal 03-08-05, 02:33 PM	Wow, snippy are we? I've done nothing but make suggestions all thread, my little friend. If you're that way about it.. I'd recommend all getting a copy of Neverwinter Nights or Vampire: Redemption : The Masquerade for your PCs, and playing that. That way you can do what it seems all of you want to, and it's far simpler than doing it table top if no one wants the rules.
Doctor X 03-08-05, 03:17 PM	My players just aren't interested in a rules heavy rpg I'm afraid. Then maybe they shouldn't be playing D&D... you can't get much more rules-heavy than that, really. :rolleyes:
Fedifensor 03-08-05, 03:18 PM	If it helps, I made a selection of sample characters for the round-robin campaign I play/DM in. You can find them here (http://www.peakpeak.com/~fedifensor/games/dnd3e/eberron/sample.htm).
Cloud Divider 03-08-05, 06:40 PM	Hmm i do have the Sharn book...I could restrict them to some races (human, half-orc etc) and maybe allow the deneith dragonmark. And then only allow fighters or rogues (maybe ask them if ,given this situation, they would want to read the phb and some info on eberron so they could play something else?). I personally see no problem giving the players their choice of pregen characters. There's a lot of advantages that has to offer the GM: 1) You can make characters that fit the story you're wanting to tell, rather than shoehorn/tweak things so that whatever the players come up with works. 2) You can ensure the characters mesh (or at least have a good reason to), and furthermore, you can plant the plot hooks you'll be wanting later. 3) Because you know how the character is supposed to work rules-wise, you can use that as a teaching exercise for your players (assuming they want to). 4) Because you're writing them, you KNOW you'll have material to work with when it comes to character backgrounds. If your players aren't the type to put effort into that (I've got one of those), it can be problematic for GMs who like character-centric games. Ultimately, it's basically just like running a convention game. They could be some kind of warriors, mercenaries or city watch or just plain thieves and roleplay from there in Sharn, doing the odd quest outside the city as they grow in fame and power... That'd certainly work. Your previous couple lists of characters weren't too bad either. Actually, a fun way to run things might be to set the game during (or VERY shortly after the Last War), and the PC's are from a Brelish a military unit that is on leave in Sharn. That'd give you a good deal of flexibility in character archetypes, yet still give you a common tie to work with. If you prefer a postwar setting, perhaps the PC's unit was officially disbanded, but they've decided to stick together and try to build a new life in Sharn. Hm...The more that I think about it, a similar idea that may work better: the PC's (as they are level 3 in PC classes) actually belonged to something rather like a Brelish special operations unit... They could even have been a team for another nation. But now that the war's over, their unit has been officially disbanded (...or if they were Cyran, they have no nation to fight for anymore). Heh. They're the A-Team! B.A. the half-orc! Episode I is their breakout from a POW camp...they flee to Sharn because it happens to be a really great place to hide out). Although I still want them to start out as outsiders. How do I do that then? All you really need to do is find a reason for all the PCs to want to go to Sharn. Maybe they're all Brelish farmhand hicks, that've decided to "go see the Big City," after fulfilling their tour of duty because that other soldier that was in their unit (now deceased) kept talkin' up how awesome the city was. Maybe they all have ties to one person (say, a girl - one PC's sister, another's sparring partner, a third's ex-girlfriend, the fourth's best friend, etc). And said person ran away/was kidnapped/disappeared and is apparently now in Sharn. PCs head off to look for her. Damn soo many options... Yes. Options are good... By the by, I don't think a Spellcaster should be automatically discounted... A Sorcerer (even a 3rd level one) is still pretty straightforward. They've got a very short list of powers, and they don't have to worry about preparing spells. You could even have some fun with some suboptimal multiclass PCs (say, a Sor/Ftr that focuses on combat-boosting magic, like Shield and True Strike, etc). True Strike + Power Attack can be fun (and YES, I know that the TS bonus isn't transferrable - the key is that you can now afford to dump all of your BAB into smacking them...and with a 2h weapon, it can be pretty decent). :) A Cleric's probably worth including, and perhaps you'd do well to simplify things and just list the 5-6 spells they most commonly use. Actually, that Seren "Barbarian" party you suggested earlier could be pretty interesting, really. And I don't really think there's any of the classes that would be blatantly nonsensical. You can have a "barbarian" rogue - even "primitive" people have thieves. Even a paladin would be doable. The kicker is that this party was sent by a Dragon for...some reason. Maybe he bothered to tell them. Or maybe not. Maybe he's just into social experiments...
Dirkk 03-09-05, 04:18 PM	Thanks! No really thanks alot, that was a cool reply :) I don't know yet what to do, i can't decide. lol recently i applied for the military here in belgium and after i took the psychology test i had to see a shrink who told me i doubted too much :rolleyes: Anyways i still got a good mark and theres a good chance i'll get enlisted (for administrative duty tho, i'm not a fighter kinda type) So what about a seren barbarian party that has to go to sharn to go find something? Maybe a person or a object. Maybe they have to visit an important dragonmarked member of each House because of the prophecy and give them a piece of important yet highly cryptic information? Does anyone have a cool idea? And what type of dragon would i give their village affinity with? I'd say a mettalic one but thats probably just because i'm used to their fixed alignment in vanilla d&d
Cloud Divider 03-09-05, 06:16 PM	I don't know yet what to do, i can't decide. lol recently i applied for the military here in belgium and after i took the psychology test i had to see a shrink who told me i doubted too much I wish you luck, then. So what about a seren barbarian party that has to go to sharn to go find something? Maybe a person or a object. Maybe they have to visit an important dragonmarked member of each House because of the prophecy and give them a piece of important yet highly cryptic information? Honestly, I think you'd be best served by leaving the details of why they're in Sharn totally open ("You must go to a strange land, where the earth pierces the sky, to fulfill a Prophecy of grave importance!"). Then you've got wiggle room for when you finally come up with something spectacularly clever later. In other words, one morning, each PC wakes up with the village elder/shaman/wiseman/nutjob banging on their...uh...hut. He tells them to go to the coast, and meet with someone there. They find a ferryman with a boat - he's there to take them "across the sea." Maybe go for a whole Charon-type thing (creepy hooded guy who doesn't talk much - maybe the PC's are even supposed to pay him off somehow, maybe with some shiny rocks - or perhaps more interestingly, the PC's most valued possession from their childhood). The ship's clearly of the variety that shouldn't make it worthy of blue-sea travel (ie it's a small boat), not that the PC's will know the difference. In any case, the PC's cross the sea, and end up at on the docks in Sharn. Pretty much as soon as they step off the boat, the boatman turns around and heads out. Or if you want added creepiness, the PC's turn around and there's no boat, but here they are, standing on the docks. Alternately, said small boat could have capsized out at sea, and the PC's find themselves rescued by a fishing boat based in Sharn - this might be useful because it'd give them at least somewhere to start, socially. You could even start out with a "trial" adventure of sorts, which turns out to have been a dream (while they were drifting in the ocean), which may or may not be prophetic in nature. In the dream, perhaps there's always some kind of draconic symbolism (I think you should throw in lots of random objects of interest that could be considered symbolic... Dragon-shaped sculptures, a necklace of human teeth, clouds, snakes, ravens, what-have-you). Does anyone have a cool idea? And what type of dragon would i give their village affinity with? I'd say a mettalic one but thats probably just because i'm used to their fixed alignment in vanilla d&d That's what I've got. As far as a flavor for the dragon...I'd just pick one at random. The personality will be the part that matters (but I think it'd be particularly important to ensure that they remain a mysterious personage). I'd actually recommend picking a chromatic dragon, as you could then play up the "chromatic dragon's aren't necessarily evil in Eberron" angle. Alternately, maybe their patron is an evil gold dragon, but he just works very, very subtly (...and thus can appear "good" when he wants to).
Naudachu 03-09-05, 07:19 PM	Lots of good ideas here. Sounds like you're going with the Seren barbarians. Sounds like fun. I don't remember where it was mentioned, but I believe Keith Baker said Vol was a half Green dragon (ala Order of the Emerald Claw). Might be fun to use this as their totem like you suggested, reclaiming the good name of Green dragons. Instead of Sharn, you might have them land on the shores of Q'Barra. While being much closer (although you could still go with the mysterious small boat disappearing into the fog and emerging hours later many miles away), there is also a black dragon living in the heart of the jungle worshipped by lizardmen. Lizardmen vs. Seren Dragon totem. Could be interesting. And you wouldn't have to deal with the immensity and complexity of Sharn.
DanjaNinja 03-09-05, 09:43 PM	Just a quick aside: You mentioned your players aren't really interested in rules-heavy games. Well, D&D is about as rules heavy as it gets. You may want to seriously check out some other systems. That being said, your players should really read the PHB, even if they just skim it. They may not be into the rules as much as roleplay (which is ok :)), but you're not getting the most out of your D&D if you're not familiar with the core mechanics. A little effort on their part will really pay off in the long run. Also, if you're players really don't care for rules at all, then that freeform notion wouldn't be such a bad idea at all.
Dirkk 03-10-05, 02:46 AM	Well thats the weird thing they do care for the rules thing. They just don't have the time to memorise the phb. They do pay attention during the game and try to pick up as much as possible. Character creation however can be a very daunting task. Nobody i know except for me thought it was fun to do... They all end up saying "what do you advise me". So then then they have their (usually very stock fantasy basic concept) with me building them up. It works but for clerics and wizards and the like it doesn't work that well. I just don't know the spells and stuff by heart myself. Besides imho d&d can be modified to be one of the more simply rules systems on the market because of the very simply d20+mod equals or is larger then a AC or DC. All in all thats very intuitive. The q'barran idea is neat. I have a player who loves lizardmen. I like the other ideas so far too. Maybe i could give them all dragon totem (green dragon) with acid resistance for free (it isn't that rulebreaking) and the end fight in the campaign is against Vol so thats a piece of the prophecy thats true, they were the best warriors to face her. I was thinking of using some house rules for action dice. Has anyone played spycraft before? Anyway they use the APs much more extensively there and i like it how the DM gives them as a reward and gives them at the start of each session. Giving them at the start of each level is dumb imho. We did that in sotlw and everyone tried guessing when the next level would be...(i never tell them how much xp they get, makes it less complicated). I also liked how you could use them to raise your AC (defense in spycraft). Also from spycraft (and star wars i think but i don't own the system) is the wounds/point vitality system. I'm not going to explain how it all exactly works but basically the Hit points are your vitality and represent the impossible luck heroes always seem to have in movies. They only receive minor scratching, don't get hit even tho the other shot them practically in the face and get bruised a little by being tossed meters away. Then you have your wound points, thats were the blood starts flowing. This equals your con score and you have to make some check when you dip in it after losing all your vitality and then theres some stun effect or something like that. I'm sure most DMs use such a description system for themselves already but this helps relating it to the players. Hmm I might make a new thread where I will pin down my campaign idea so I can (hopefully with your help) expand on my idea. Thus so far: -PCs are seren barbarians with a green dragon totem -They have to fullfill a vague draconic prophecy -They can pick any character type and i'll try to guide and help them as much as possible in the process (trying to dissuade them from taking classes such as paladin and wizard) -They go to either Sharn or Q'barra because they are most appropriate but i intend it to be a travelling heavy campaign (as an eberron campaign should be ;) ) -I don't use psionics. I don't have the book and not planning to buy it. -I want to use some House rules described above and I use a 3.0/3.5 hybrid (own the 3.0 books and i take the best things i like from the srd, not much of a problem since my players don't read the book anyway) Thanks for the replies untill now by the way, this way its much easier to form a coherent idea. edit: This is another idea I had. Maybe I could give them a psychic link to some dragons of the chamber. These whisper to them in their sleep. The dragons start out as a cell working towards solving one piece of the prophecy but at some point they disagree and start sending conflicting messages to different party members (maybe each of the dragons is in contact with one player because they each want one representative in the party)
Cloud Divider 03-10-05, 09:36 AM	Well thats the weird thing they do care for the rules thing. They just don't have the time to memorise the phb. They do pay attention during the game and try to pick up as much as possible. Character creation however can be a very daunting task. I have players the same way. Not so much my current bunch, but I've dealt with it in the past (Players who are essentially happy to be told what to add together and what to roll, and NOT have to memorize the rulebook, especially with a GM like me who has a tendency to enjoy experimenting with a whole library of game systems). Furthermore, a good GM can really make or break a system - a GM who really knows his stuff can almost make the system transparent to the players... They all end up saying "what do you advise me". Which is a pretty sensible answer. They've hopefully got an idea in mind, but they come to you to figure out how to do it in System X. Actually, that's a really good way to do semi-pregen characters. You (the GM) do the full statting out, but you do it with the player sitting next to you to answer fiddly-bit questions. I've had really good luck doing it this way... I was thinking of using some house rules for action dice. Has anyone played spycraft before? Anyway they use the APs much more extensively there and i like it how the DM gives them as a reward and gives them at the start of each session. Yes, I've pretty extensively houseruled AP in my campaign, and I've been VERY pleased with the results. I treat AP as having the additional uses rather similar to the Buffy the Vampire Slayer RPG's Drama Points, and WW's Adventure!'s Script Editing/Inspiration. So you can still do the 1AP = +1d6 and so on, but you can also spend AP to automatically succeed. One AP usually buys a "Success+Complication," and more AP can be spent, but how many will depend on what the success results in. Furthermore, I hand out AP as rewards - usually the PC's will get 1-2 extra every couple sessions when XP is awarded, and I've issued on-the-spot AP awards for particularly in-genre actions (up to and including taking a plot complication). However, nobody in the group has any of the special Feats that take AP to use. One could imagine that getting fairly abusive if you can use Mega Feat once per session or so (because you can bank on an AP). If that comes up, I'll probably split AP into raw AP and Drama Points (DP). In any case, so far, these expanded-use AP have REALLY improved my game, I think. Giving them at the start of each level is dumb imho. We did that in sotlw and everyone tried guessing when the next level would be...(i never tell them how much xp they get, makes it less complicated). I also liked how you could use them to raise your AC (defense in spycraft). Indeed. I like the AC bonus trick - I think I'll add that to the repertoire (+1d6 to AC? Reduce it to 1d4?). -I don't use psionics. I don't have the book and not planning to buy it. -I want to use some House rules described above and I use a 3.0/3.5 hybrid (own the 3.0 books and i take the best things i like from the srd, not much of a problem since my players don't read the book anyway) As a by-the-by, I'm generally using full 3.5 rules, even though I don't own any 3.5 books (except MMIII and the Expanded Psionics Book - but I bought that well after starting the 3.5 game). Online SRD's are your friend! edit: This is another idea I had. Maybe I could give them a psychic link to some dragons of the chamber. These whisper to them in their sleep. The dragons start out as a cell working towards solving one piece of the prophecy but at some point they disagree and start sending conflicting messages to different party members (maybe each of the dragons is in contact with one player because they each want one representative in the party) That would make things interesting...