Intercepting a Final Messenger [Archive] - Wizards Community

Intercepting a Final Messenger [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Darrek
08-05-04, 06:47 PM So after an amazing series of rolls, my players managed to catch a final messenger fleeing a slain warforged.

After letting it run down the requisite 8 hours, the party warforged decided to try it on. Now how would the final messenger react? Based on the coolness factor and as reward for a spectacular scene catching the messenger, I had it deliver the message to the PC and then become his own (The PC was extremely surprised to be fed an image of himself making the killing blow from his former enemy's eyes).

But now I'm beginning to think maybe since the messenger was sent to a specific warforged, it should have refused to accept the new master. Or possibly since it's "battery" was dead, the message would have been erased.

So I'm throwing it to the boards. Any thoughts? Any rules I missed?
footdownatgreen
08-05-04, 06:49 PM I dont see anything out of order in what you did, and its a cool reward for the lucky party.
ChronosCrow
08-05-04, 11:15 PM One of those things goes at 60 feet fly (perfect) per move action so if a PC catches that, kudos to them. Other than that, the books clearly states, "Any warforged who attaches the messenger an review the message that in contains."
Save_vs_DM
08-06-04, 02:03 AM I think you were spot on target.

Was this for The Forgotten Forge adventure? My players ALSO tried to catch the messenger, but failed. They got pretty clever at the end, readying actions and figuring out all these strange ways to catch it (uncluding, I kid you not, a readied scroll of web).

But they didn't manage to catch (and did they try to!)

Just out of curiousity, how did they end up catching it? I allowed them a reflex save vs the FM AC (26) at the first one...

Cheers,
Save vs DM
EberronJunkie
08-06-04, 07:41 AM when i read about the messenger, i thought thats so harry potter. but its also a great idea, i mean you try and covertly kill a warforged only to have his chest open and fly your personal details to any other baddy warforged
Darrek
08-06-04, 12:59 PM This did indeed take place during the Forgotten Forge.
When the first messenger started to take off, I figured it would act in a surprise round, with the PCs flat footed. Of course, no one likes a surprise round without some chance to act, so I let everyone take a DC20 Reflex save (instead of the usual spot or listen checks). Sure enough, the rogue with Lightning Reflexes made his save. Next he faced the initiative of the FM, and again won (Improved Initiative), and lastly made a touch attack to catch/"grapple" it. Natural 20. I couldn't refuse him the prize after that kind of luck. The character seemed almost designed to capture Final Messengers!
Oddly enough, despite readying actions, they didn't catch the FMs later in the adventure)
Save_vs_DM
08-06-04, 07:43 PM Actually, I played it that the group only had ONE final messenger between the three forged....you checked out the price of those! They're darn spendy!

Hmm...Now I feel bad...my warforged rolled a natural 20 on his saving throw to catch the snit...er final messenger.

I'm sorry...but the image I get in my head of a final messenger is the Golden Snitch.

Cheers,
Save vs DM
Darrek
08-06-04, 08:03 PM Trust me, you're not the only one whose players saw that. The poor rogue who made the catch has picked up the out-of-game nickname of 'Harry'.
MrFilthyIke
08-06-04, 09:49 PM Every single Final Messenger was Magic Missled by our party Sorcerer. :rolleyes:
Artur King of the Britons
08-06-04, 11:26 PM Originally posted by MrFilthyIke
Every single Final Messenger was Magic Missled by our party Sorcerer. :rolleyes:

Magic Missile
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets: Up to five creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
A missile of magical energy darts forth from your fingertip and strikes its target, dealing 1d4+1 points of force damage.
The missile strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee combat or has less than total cover or total concealment. Specific parts of a creature can’t be singled out. Inanimate objects are not damaged by the spell.
For every two caster levels beyond 1st, you gain an additional missile—two at 3rd level, three at 5th, four at 7th, and the maximum of five missiles at 9th level or higher. If you shoot multiple missiles, you can have them strike a single creature or several creatures. A single missile can strike only one creature. You must designate targets before you check for spell resistance or roll damage.

I always presumed magic missile couldn't harm an item as it is inanimate.
Remnant
08-06-04, 11:41 PM Originally posted by MrFilthyIke
Every single Final Messenger was Magic Missled by our party Sorcerer. :rolleyes:

Hmm... I'd probably make the thing fly out of line of sight moments after the party tried to catch it, unless they were really well prepared for it. And even that assumes magic missle would even work on the thing, as pointed out above.

At any rate, actually catching the thing, and the attempt to do so, is a heck of a lot more fun (IMHO) then just blasting it with a spell.
Falaer
08-07-04, 12:20 AM It isn't inanimate...IT IS MOVING!!!:D
It is pretty much the definition of an animated object.:smirk:
Artur King of the Britons
08-07-04, 03:02 PM MUST NOT FEED THE TROLLS :behold:
MUST NOT FEED THE TROLLS :behold:

LOL

:angel:
Doctor X
08-08-04, 02:43 PM Originally posted by Falaer
It isn't inanimate...IT IS MOVING!!!:D
It is pretty much the definition of an animated object.:smirk:

This is true. Final Messengers are constructs, and construcs are animate objects. There's nothing that says constructs cannot be harmed by magic missile. Not that it matters, however, unless there are two spellcasters who both had Magic Missiles ready or somehow beat the thing's initiative. After one round, the thing will probably be out of range and line of sight, considering the layout of Sharn. There's a lot for it to hide behind. At first level, a single magic missile cannot possibly take out a Final Messenger. They have 6 HP, as opposed to a maximum damage of 5.

Anyway... I probably won't be running the Forgotten Forge, so I probably shouldn't worry about it anyway (Rant Alert). There's too many assumptions made in this adventure, one of them being the Final Messenger thing. What if somebody in my party is lucky enough to grab one before it flies off? How is the Lord of the Blades supposed to find out what went down? And final messengers aren't exactly worthless trinkets, either. With a price of 6,000 gp, I would consider it an unbalanced thing for anyone in the party to possess or even sell at 1st level. I know they would deserve a reward for getting so lucky, but wouldn't that be a little extreme?

Same with the warforged rogue "hiding in the shadows" at the entrance to the Sharn sewers. How can he "hide in the shadows" from characters who are smart enough to bring a torch or some other source of lighting with them? And believe me, the people in my group are not stupid. I know for a fact that if my party was about to go underground into near complete darkness, they'd grab a torch, cast Dancing Lights, or something. Considering the hallway is only 5 feet wide, they'd pass within a few feet of him. A candle would give away his position at that range. There is no way they wouldn't see him. No way at all.

So when they do see him, how is the encounter supposed to go down? The room with the valves is now on the other side of the enemy... so do they just fight him in the 5-foot-wide hallway? Sounds like that would suck to me, and it would definitely put that cool valves-opening-during-the-fight mechanic in the next room to waste. It would all take place either in that hallway or in the area immediately outside of it. As much as I'd like the fight to be carried into the area around the valves, it probably wouldn't happen.

I really like the story behind the Forgotten Forge, but I really like to avoid situations like this. I hate making the PC's feel powerless. I know I'd hate it if a DM had a rogue somehow "attack from the shadows" even though I have darkvision, or tell me he doesn't care what I rolled; that I didn't catch the final messenger because he doesn't want me to have it.
sheik
08-09-04, 02:54 AM When does the flying messenger take flight? When the warforged is below 0 hp or when it is at -10.

Wouldn't it be fairly simple to fake a messege from a flying messanger? I'm obviously referring to the movie Mission Impossible. It could be a great noire style adventure.

dana. (sheik)
Darrek
08-10-04, 11:11 PM Personally, I think the Final Messenger is way over-valued. It's a Sending spell with far more vulnerabilities (including fake messages, hadn't thought of that. Thanks for the idea shiek). My players thought I was generous when Elaydren offered them 1000gp for it.

In response to Doctor X's rant, some of which is justified, I did feel the incessant urge to insert a caveat. The Lord of Blades can't possibly be relying on these Final Messengers to keep tabs on his minions. Yeah, they're fast, but they only have a lifetime of 8 hours. Without doing the measurements/multiplications, I'm pretty confident no FMs from his agents in Sharn are reaching him.
Deckofmanythings
08-11-04, 03:06 PM I simply gave the Final Messanger an initiative at the beginning of the combat, and every round the following action:

"Ready an action to fly away upon the Warforge I am attached to dropping below 0 HP"

So as soon as the Warforged dropped, the Messanger was immediately 120 feet away (first one was 120 feet in the heavy downpoor, i.e. out of sight, second one was 120 feet up the stairwell, i.e. again, out of sight.)

Worked pretty well with no complaints from my players. Although THEY never readied actions to intercept said messangers. :D
GoodTeletubby
08-11-04, 08:03 PM actually, it should only be 60 ft away, since you can only ready a single action, it would move a readied 60 ft. then another 120 ft the next round

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darrek 08-05-04, 06:47 PM	So after an amazing series of rolls, my players managed to catch a final messenger fleeing a slain warforged. After letting it run down the requisite 8 hours, the party warforged decided to try it on. Now how would the final messenger react? Based on the coolness factor and as reward for a spectacular scene catching the messenger, I had it deliver the message to the PC and then become his own (The PC was extremely surprised to be fed an image of himself making the killing blow from his former enemy's eyes). But now I'm beginning to think maybe since the messenger was sent to a specific warforged, it should have refused to accept the new master. Or possibly since it's "battery" was dead, the message would have been erased. So I'm throwing it to the boards. Any thoughts? Any rules I missed?
footdownatgreen 08-05-04, 06:49 PM	I dont see anything out of order in what you did, and its a cool reward for the lucky party.
ChronosCrow 08-05-04, 11:15 PM	One of those things goes at 60 feet fly (perfect) per move action so if a PC catches that, kudos to them. Other than that, the books clearly states, "Any warforged who attaches the messenger an review the message that in contains."
Save_vs_DM 08-06-04, 02:03 AM	I think you were spot on target. Was this for The Forgotten Forge adventure? My players ALSO tried to catch the messenger, but failed. They got pretty clever at the end, readying actions and figuring out all these strange ways to catch it (uncluding, I kid you not, a readied scroll of web). But they didn't manage to catch (and did they try to!) Just out of curiousity, how did they end up catching it? I allowed them a reflex save vs the FM AC (26) at the first one... Cheers, Save vs DM
EberronJunkie 08-06-04, 07:41 AM	when i read about the messenger, i thought thats so harry potter. but its also a great idea, i mean you try and covertly kill a warforged only to have his chest open and fly your personal details to any other baddy warforged
Darrek 08-06-04, 12:59 PM	This did indeed take place during the Forgotten Forge. When the first messenger started to take off, I figured it would act in a surprise round, with the PCs flat footed. Of course, no one likes a surprise round without some chance to act, so I let everyone take a DC20 Reflex save (instead of the usual spot or listen checks). Sure enough, the rogue with Lightning Reflexes made his save. Next he faced the initiative of the FM, and again won (Improved Initiative), and lastly made a touch attack to catch/"grapple" it. Natural 20. I couldn't refuse him the prize after that kind of luck. The character seemed almost designed to capture Final Messengers! Oddly enough, despite readying actions, they didn't catch the FMs later in the adventure)
Save_vs_DM 08-06-04, 07:43 PM	Actually, I played it that the group only had ONE final messenger between the three forged....you checked out the price of those! They're darn spendy! Hmm...Now I feel bad...my warforged rolled a natural 20 on his saving throw to catch the snit...er final messenger. I'm sorry...but the image I get in my head of a final messenger is the Golden Snitch. Cheers, Save vs DM
Darrek 08-06-04, 08:03 PM	Trust me, you're not the only one whose players saw that. The poor rogue who made the catch has picked up the out-of-game nickname of 'Harry'.
MrFilthyIke 08-06-04, 09:49 PM	Every single Final Messenger was Magic Missled by our party Sorcerer. :rolleyes:
Artur King of the Britons 08-06-04, 11:26 PM	Originally posted by MrFilthyIke Every single Final Messenger was Magic Missled by our party Sorcerer. :rolleyes: Magic Missile Evocation [Force] Level: Sor/Wiz 1 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level) Targets: Up to five creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft. apart Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: Yes A missile of magical energy darts forth from your fingertip and strikes its target, dealing 1d4+1 points of force damage. The missile strikes unerringly, even if the target is in melee combat or has less than total cover or total concealment. Specific parts of a creature can’t be singled out. Inanimate objects are not damaged by the spell. For every two caster levels beyond 1st, you gain an additional missile—two at 3rd level, three at 5th, four at 7th, and the maximum of five missiles at 9th level or higher. If you shoot multiple missiles, you can have them strike a single creature or several creatures. A single missile can strike only one creature. You must designate targets before you check for spell resistance or roll damage. I always presumed magic missile couldn't harm an item as it is inanimate.
Remnant 08-06-04, 11:41 PM	Originally posted by MrFilthyIke Every single Final Messenger was Magic Missled by our party Sorcerer. :rolleyes: Hmm... I'd probably make the thing fly out of line of sight moments after the party tried to catch it, unless they were really well prepared for it. And even that assumes magic missle would even work on the thing, as pointed out above. At any rate, actually catching the thing, and the attempt to do so, is a heck of a lot more fun (IMHO) then just blasting it with a spell.
Falaer 08-07-04, 12:20 AM	It isn't inanimate...IT IS MOVING!!!:D It is pretty much the definition of an animated object.:smirk:
Artur King of the Britons 08-07-04, 03:02 PM	MUST NOT FEED THE TROLLS :behold: MUST NOT FEED THE TROLLS :behold: LOL :angel:
Doctor X 08-08-04, 02:43 PM	Originally posted by Falaer It isn't inanimate...IT IS MOVING!!!:D It is pretty much the definition of an animated object.:smirk: This is true. Final Messengers are constructs, and construcs are animate objects. There's nothing that says constructs cannot be harmed by magic missile. Not that it matters, however, unless there are two spellcasters who both had Magic Missiles ready or somehow beat the thing's initiative. After one round, the thing will probably be out of range and line of sight, considering the layout of Sharn. There's a lot for it to hide behind. At first level, a single magic missile cannot possibly take out a Final Messenger. They have 6 HP, as opposed to a maximum damage of 5. Anyway... I probably won't be running the Forgotten Forge, so I probably shouldn't worry about it anyway (Rant Alert). There's too many assumptions made in this adventure, one of them being the Final Messenger thing. What if somebody in my party is lucky enough to grab one before it flies off? How is the Lord of the Blades supposed to find out what went down? And final messengers aren't exactly worthless trinkets, either. With a price of 6,000 gp, I would consider it an unbalanced thing for anyone in the party to possess or even sell at 1st level. I know they would deserve a reward for getting so lucky, but wouldn't that be a little extreme? Same with the warforged rogue "hiding in the shadows" at the entrance to the Sharn sewers. How can he "hide in the shadows" from characters who are smart enough to bring a torch or some other source of lighting with them? And believe me, the people in my group are not stupid. I know for a fact that if my party was about to go underground into near complete darkness, they'd grab a torch, cast Dancing Lights, or something. Considering the hallway is only 5 feet wide, they'd pass within a few feet of him. A candle would give away his position at that range. There is no way they wouldn't see him. No way at all. So when they do see him, how is the encounter supposed to go down? The room with the valves is now on the other side of the enemy... so do they just fight him in the 5-foot-wide hallway? Sounds like that would suck to me, and it would definitely put that cool valves-opening-during-the-fight mechanic in the next room to waste. It would all take place either in that hallway or in the area immediately outside of it. As much as I'd like the fight to be carried into the area around the valves, it probably wouldn't happen. I really like the story behind the Forgotten Forge, but I really like to avoid situations like this. I hate making the PC's feel powerless. I know I'd hate it if a DM had a rogue somehow "attack from the shadows" even though I have darkvision, or tell me he doesn't care what I rolled; that I didn't catch the final messenger because he doesn't want me to have it.
sheik 08-09-04, 02:54 AM	When does the flying messenger take flight? When the warforged is below 0 hp or when it is at -10. Wouldn't it be fairly simple to fake a messege from a flying messanger? I'm obviously referring to the movie Mission Impossible. It could be a great noire style adventure. dana. (sheik)
Darrek 08-10-04, 11:11 PM	Personally, I think the Final Messenger is way over-valued. It's a Sending spell with far more vulnerabilities (including fake messages, hadn't thought of that. Thanks for the idea shiek). My players thought I was generous when Elaydren offered them 1000gp for it. In response to Doctor X's rant, some of which is justified, I did feel the incessant urge to insert a caveat. The Lord of Blades can't possibly be relying on these Final Messengers to keep tabs on his minions. Yeah, they're fast, but they only have a lifetime of 8 hours. Without doing the measurements/multiplications, I'm pretty confident no FMs from his agents in Sharn are reaching him.
Deckofmanythings 08-11-04, 03:06 PM	I simply gave the Final Messanger an initiative at the beginning of the combat, and every round the following action: "Ready an action to fly away upon the Warforge I am attached to dropping below 0 HP" So as soon as the Warforged dropped, the Messanger was immediately 120 feet away (first one was 120 feet in the heavy downpoor, i.e. out of sight, second one was 120 feet up the stairwell, i.e. again, out of sight.) Worked pretty well with no complaints from my players. Although THEY never readied actions to intercept said messangers. :D
GoodTeletubby 08-11-04, 08:03 PM	actually, it should only be 60 ft away, since you can only ready a single action, it would move a readied 60 ft. then another 120 ft the next round