Interfering with Prophecy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Interfering with Prophecy [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Fevil
08-31-04, 02:24 PM After a discussion with one of my players it occured to me that, having destroyed the house bearing the Mark of Death, the Dragons may well have disturbed the course of Prophecy.

If they did, did they do it willingly, or even knowingly? And why did they allow the other houses to scourge aberrant dragonmarks from their ranks. After all, these marks must also play some part in the Prophecy.

Unless the Prophecy is a lie.
Wolfspirit4W
08-31-04, 03:10 PM Well, the Mark of Death isn't completly wiped out, it can (and more than likely will) come back, and screw up the calendar with it. Call it a hunch.

Same thing goes with the Abberant marks. All it would take is people from different houses having children to have a good number of those floating around. Sure, the houses themselves probably aren't going to mingle, but descendants of those that are marked naturaly are going to increase over time.

I can see humans as the most likely to mess the "natural" order of things up. For one thing, they've got quite a few different "pure" marks available to the race. I don't have the book with me, but it's what, four, something like that? They also have a high birth / mortality rate. So a Marked human is possibly going to have grandchildren before a Marked elf would even have children. Now, it isn't exactly clear how the Mark is passed, and how the Abberant marks are formed, but eventually most humans would probably have at least one ancestor that was Marked. Might take a while, but still. And without exact family history, who knows what Marks might cross that way.

(man I have too much time on my hands right now ;))
ieattrollsforbreakfast
08-31-04, 04:07 PM For all we know, the fate of House Vol may have been written in the Prophecy. By destroying the family, the dragons may have been actually carrying out the prophecy rather than disturbing it.
Even if they did go against the prophecy, remeber that not all dragons follow it fanatically.
Dex The King
08-31-04, 10:11 PM The way I see it, the dragons probably looked at it logically, with two obvious choices.

1. Destroy House Vol.

2. Don't destroy House Vol. Allow them to mix with dragons.

Now, the question becomes not whether or not to alter the Prophecy, but instead how much. Option 1 definitely sounds more preferable, at least, it would, if I were a dragon.
AvonRekaes
08-31-04, 10:22 PM Perhaps, as the Mark of Death, it was meant to die.

Or perhaps once the last bearer of the mark is destroyed (Vol), it will return on a new family of elves. (As well as the 13th moon comming back from destruction and Dal Quor becoming coterminous with Eberron. Maybe. ^_-)
debatedeus
08-31-04, 11:41 PM I think people are obsessed with the mark of death when they needn't be. Although it is interesting because it is the only 'discontinued' dragonmark, the details about it are not important or even knowable to most people. I also think that people delve far too much into unneeded details to run adventures. If anyone knows a foreign language, it is just like trying to speak a foreign language by using vocabulary you have learned and the syntactical structure of your own language. But I digress.

One interesting thing about the Mark of Death is that its associated moon disappeared at about the time the Dal Quor was knocked off its planar axis. The moon disappeared a long time before the mark did. Moreover, the dragons GAVE the giants the magic to accomplish this.
Gurv
09-01-04, 08:13 PM There are too many unanswered questions about the missing Mark to be sure of anything. Conjecture about relationships between planes, moons, and dragonmarks are just that: conjecture. Some better supported than others.

Dragonmarks appear in many places. It is only in recent times that they have begun to appear on living beings. The Prophecy seems to be an ongoing event, like a text being scrolled across the universe. Perhaps, in the draconic perspective, the living dragonmarks are simply already-read runes that have yet to fade with the passing of time. The Chamber watches the lesser races for signs of anything new or different, but they don't record the doings of every marked individual, and they certainly don't act to make sure that they are not harmed. So in general, the dragons do not seem to think that preserving the dragonmarked is high priority.

Personally, I think the reason that the dragons helped destroy the House of Vol was more than the fact that she was a half-dragon. They might frown on that, but that wasn't the issue. Her Mark of Death was corrupted, not a proper part of the Prophecy at all. You see, the Mark of Death appeared on elves, and Vol was not entirely elf. Like any improperly drawn rune, her mark could have dire effects. And an improperly drawn rune that was part of the Prophecy itself?
The dragons know more about these things than a human ever will, and if they thought a half-dragon with a Dragonmark was a bad idea, I'm inclined to agree that it shouldn't be tried again.

Of course, I'm just the kind of DM who would have BBEGs with exactly that in mind, just this time they're not telling the dragons.
ZiD
09-01-04, 08:49 PM Well the exact nature of everything revolving around the MOD isnt exactly clear, as all of you have noted. In that case, make something up!!! Sure, it may not be politically correct in some aspects, but it would make for some interesting missions and conjectures. Sure, you cant solidify any facts on the mark, but you can create your own back history for it. Hell, its a new world, fiddle with it some!!! Sure, I've only read the first 100 or so pages in the Eberron book, and I may not have played with it yet, but I do plan on making some interesting missions revolving around the 'possibilitys' in the world. But thats coming from lil ol newb me :)
ChrisTheS
09-02-04, 02:52 AM One thing I think is fairly clear, is that the dragons are not the passive mystics that most people associate with 'keepers of prophecy'. They take an active hand in the proceedings, even if they mostly do so behind the scenes. But I think they recognize that if the Prophecy is the story of the world, and they are part of the world, then their own actions are part of the Prophecy too. I'd like to investigate the dragons in general (and the Chamber in particular) in more depth, to see how much of a Illuminati-esque conspiracy network I can drag out of Eberron's background. In general, I think the dragons are something akin to the Time Lords from Doctor Who: although officially they decry interference in the affairs of mortals, behind the scenes they are incorrigible meddlers.
ZiD
09-02-04, 11:11 AM One thing I think is fairly clear, is that the dragons are not the passive mystics that most people associate with 'keepers of prophecy'. They take an active hand in the proceedings, even if they mostly do so behind the scenes. But I think they recognize that if the Prophecy is the story of the world, and they are part of the world, then their own actions are part of the Prophecy too. I'd like to investigate the dragons in general (and the Chamber in particular) in more depth, to see how much of a Illuminati-esque conspiracy network I can drag out of Eberron's background. In general, I think the dragons are something akin to the Time Lords from Doctor Who: although officially they decry interference in the affairs of mortals, behind the scenes they are incorrigible meddlers.

Hmm... good idea. What I like is the fact that Eberron seems to be kind of centered around dragons... I mean, common, who doesnt like dragons?
ChrisTheS
09-02-04, 08:02 PM First-level characters don't care much for them, in general :P
Rajorke
09-03-04, 01:54 AM 12 planes 1 remote
12 moons 1 destroyed
12 dragonmarks 1 dead
12 nations 1 obliterated
hmmm... where to go next

12 classes...
12 races of mortals... (if you count the inspired)
yeah i know its a stretch but if you go looking for connections and conspiracies you'll find them whether there real or not that is the nature of paranoia and NOIR
Fevil
09-03-04, 12:45 PM 12 planes 1 remote
12 moons 1 destroyed
12 dragonmarks 1 dead
12 nations 1 obliterated

Another idea....Perhaps the Dragons have been directing the Prohecy then. Perhaps its the number 12 thats important to the Prophecy and not 13.

Using Vol as a reason to destroy the Mark of Death.
Destroying Cyre on the Day of mourning (either a randomly picked nation, or chosen for a reason)
The moon is difficult, as I dont quite remember how it came to be destroyed. Did the Giants not have a hand it that? And did the Dragons not teach them magic?

These are just random thoughts btw. Stuff to stir up discussion. Feel free to ignore me :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fevil 08-31-04, 02:24 PM	After a discussion with one of my players it occured to me that, having destroyed the house bearing the Mark of Death, the Dragons may well have disturbed the course of Prophecy. If they did, did they do it willingly, or even knowingly? And why did they allow the other houses to scourge aberrant dragonmarks from their ranks. After all, these marks must also play some part in the Prophecy. Unless the Prophecy is a lie.
Wolfspirit4W 08-31-04, 03:10 PM	Well, the Mark of Death isn't completly wiped out, it can (and more than likely will) come back, and screw up the calendar with it. Call it a hunch. Same thing goes with the Abberant marks. All it would take is people from different houses having children to have a good number of those floating around. Sure, the houses themselves probably aren't going to mingle, but descendants of those that are marked naturaly are going to increase over time. I can see humans as the most likely to mess the "natural" order of things up. For one thing, they've got quite a few different "pure" marks available to the race. I don't have the book with me, but it's what, four, something like that? They also have a high birth / mortality rate. So a Marked human is possibly going to have grandchildren before a Marked elf would even have children. Now, it isn't exactly clear how the Mark is passed, and how the Abberant marks are formed, but eventually most humans would probably have at least one ancestor that was Marked. Might take a while, but still. And without exact family history, who knows what Marks might cross that way. (man I have too much time on my hands right now ;))
ieattrollsforbreakfast 08-31-04, 04:07 PM	For all we know, the fate of House Vol may have been written in the Prophecy. By destroying the family, the dragons may have been actually carrying out the prophecy rather than disturbing it. Even if they did go against the prophecy, remeber that not all dragons follow it fanatically.
Dex The King 08-31-04, 10:11 PM	The way I see it, the dragons probably looked at it logically, with two obvious choices. 1. Destroy House Vol. 2. Don't destroy House Vol. Allow them to mix with dragons. Now, the question becomes not whether or not to alter the Prophecy, but instead how much. Option 1 definitely sounds more preferable, at least, it would, if I were a dragon.
AvonRekaes 08-31-04, 10:22 PM	Perhaps, as the Mark of Death, it was meant to die. Or perhaps once the last bearer of the mark is destroyed (Vol), it will return on a new family of elves. (As well as the 13th moon comming back from destruction and Dal Quor becoming coterminous with Eberron. Maybe. ^_-)
debatedeus 08-31-04, 11:41 PM	I think people are obsessed with the mark of death when they needn't be. Although it is interesting because it is the only 'discontinued' dragonmark, the details about it are not important or even knowable to most people. I also think that people delve far too much into unneeded details to run adventures. If anyone knows a foreign language, it is just like trying to speak a foreign language by using vocabulary you have learned and the syntactical structure of your own language. But I digress. One interesting thing about the Mark of Death is that its associated moon disappeared at about the time the Dal Quor was knocked off its planar axis. The moon disappeared a long time before the mark did. Moreover, the dragons GAVE the giants the magic to accomplish this.
Gurv 09-01-04, 08:13 PM	There are too many unanswered questions about the missing Mark to be sure of anything. Conjecture about relationships between planes, moons, and dragonmarks are just that: conjecture. Some better supported than others. Dragonmarks appear in many places. It is only in recent times that they have begun to appear on living beings. The Prophecy seems to be an ongoing event, like a text being scrolled across the universe. Perhaps, in the draconic perspective, the living dragonmarks are simply already-read runes that have yet to fade with the passing of time. The Chamber watches the lesser races for signs of anything new or different, but they don't record the doings of every marked individual, and they certainly don't act to make sure that they are not harmed. So in general, the dragons do not seem to think that preserving the dragonmarked is high priority. Personally, I think the reason that the dragons helped destroy the House of Vol was more than the fact that she was a half-dragon. They might frown on that, but that wasn't the issue. Her Mark of Death was corrupted, not a proper part of the Prophecy at all. You see, the Mark of Death appeared on elves, and Vol was not entirely elf. Like any improperly drawn rune, her mark could have dire effects. And an improperly drawn rune that was part of the Prophecy itself? The dragons know more about these things than a human ever will, and if they thought a half-dragon with a Dragonmark was a bad idea, I'm inclined to agree that it shouldn't be tried again. Of course, I'm just the kind of DM who would have BBEGs with exactly that in mind, just this time they're not telling the dragons.
ZiD 09-01-04, 08:49 PM	Well the exact nature of everything revolving around the MOD isnt exactly clear, as all of you have noted. In that case, make something up!!! Sure, it may not be politically correct in some aspects, but it would make for some interesting missions and conjectures. Sure, you cant solidify any facts on the mark, but you can create your own back history for it. Hell, its a new world, fiddle with it some!!! Sure, I've only read the first 100 or so pages in the Eberron book, and I may not have played with it yet, but I do plan on making some interesting missions revolving around the 'possibilitys' in the world. But thats coming from lil ol newb me :)
ChrisTheS 09-02-04, 02:52 AM	One thing I think is fairly clear, is that the dragons are not the passive mystics that most people associate with 'keepers of prophecy'. They take an active hand in the proceedings, even if they mostly do so behind the scenes. But I think they recognize that if the Prophecy is the story of the world, and they are part of the world, then their own actions are part of the Prophecy too. I'd like to investigate the dragons in general (and the Chamber in particular) in more depth, to see how much of a Illuminati-esque conspiracy network I can drag out of Eberron's background. In general, I think the dragons are something akin to the Time Lords from Doctor Who: although officially they decry interference in the affairs of mortals, behind the scenes they are incorrigible meddlers.
ZiD 09-02-04, 11:11 AM	One thing I think is fairly clear, is that the dragons are not the passive mystics that most people associate with 'keepers of prophecy'. They take an active hand in the proceedings, even if they mostly do so behind the scenes. But I think they recognize that if the Prophecy is the story of the world, and they are part of the world, then their own actions are part of the Prophecy too. I'd like to investigate the dragons in general (and the Chamber in particular) in more depth, to see how much of a Illuminati-esque conspiracy network I can drag out of Eberron's background. In general, I think the dragons are something akin to the Time Lords from Doctor Who: although officially they decry interference in the affairs of mortals, behind the scenes they are incorrigible meddlers. Hmm... good idea. What I like is the fact that Eberron seems to be kind of centered around dragons... I mean, common, who doesnt like dragons?
ChrisTheS 09-02-04, 08:02 PM	First-level characters don't care much for them, in general :P
Rajorke 09-03-04, 01:54 AM	12 planes 1 remote 12 moons 1 destroyed 12 dragonmarks 1 dead 12 nations 1 obliterated hmmm... where to go next 12 classes... 12 races of mortals... (if you count the inspired) yeah i know its a stretch but if you go looking for connections and conspiracies you'll find them whether there real or not that is the nature of paranoia and NOIR
Fevil 09-03-04, 12:45 PM	12 planes 1 remote 12 moons 1 destroyed 12 dragonmarks 1 dead 12 nations 1 obliterated Another idea....Perhaps the Dragons have been directing the Prohecy then. Perhaps its the number 12 thats important to the Prophecy and not 13. Using Vol as a reason to destroy the Mark of Death. Destroying Cyre on the Day of mourning (either a randomly picked nation, or chosen for a reason) The moon is difficult, as I dont quite remember how it came to be destroyed. Did the Giants not have a hand it that? And did the Dragons not teach them magic? These are just random thoughts btw. Stuff to stir up discussion. Feel free to ignore me :)