Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sythspawn 10-26-06, 11:52 PM	I saw the book in my local bookstore the other day and have been considering buying it since. I'm hesitant though because gaming supplements are so expensive these days. What are some of the pros and cons to Eberron from both a DM and a player's perspective? I'm currently reading one fo the novels, hoping that it will give me a good idea of what the world is like, and whether or not I'll want to play in it. But I'd love some info from people who are actually playing the game.
yossarius 10-27-06, 02:40 PM	There are a great deal of plot devices we could share with you, regarding various bad guys, and settings, and possibilities for world-shattering struggles, and conspiracies. However, I'd like to take a moment to discuss what, more than anything else, draws me to this campaign setting. I believe Eberron fills a void which has existed in D&D for some time. For a lot of us that are veterans, long, involved dungeon crawls and rescue-the-princess senarios feel as spontaneous and new as taking out the garbage. D&D has attempted to evolve past this kind of setting in the past, such as with Ravenloft or Dark Sun, but I believed that it failed more than it succeeded. Running a campaign with a horror-based or post-apocolyptic theme can be fun, but even under those themes there are certain base assumptions in the game that are difficult to escape. An example of one of these base assumptions is a kind of acceptable racism that has existed since D&Ds beginning. Racism against what the game calls "monster races." In generic D&D, when a group of adventures goes off to kill a group or orcs, say, or goblins, this is generally considered a 'good' act, since everyone well knows that orcs and goblins are evil. After all, it says so in the Monster Manual. Eberron doesn't say that orcs and goblins aren't evil. What it DOES say, IMHO, is that even though they might be evil, that doesn't make it 'good' for you to go around and kill every one of them you see. Some people on these boards seem to think that, since the rules on alignment are somewhat more lax in Eberron, this must mean that Eberron is a morally ambiguous place. I disagree. Instead, I think what it does is take away from the players part of the game mechanics that allows them to justify their behavior ("It's evil, so I'm allowed to kill it.") Another aspect of Eberron that appeals to me is the fact that the gods never interfere with the lives of mortals. Divine intervention, in the style of Greek or Norse mythology, can be a fun tool in storytelling. It can also be an obstacle to suspension of disbelief. Especially, I think, to veteran players. The first time Thor or Paladine or Torm gave one of your characters a personal audience, it was probably lots of fun. After a while, though, it starts to feel like the DM is just trying to prevent you from screwing up his game, so he places before you an ultra-powerful monster that can slap you around at will. I have read some say that Eberron is D&D with a slight comic book feel, and that isn't an entirely false analogy. But I also think that, magic and monsters aside, it's the most realistic setting ever published. We are encouraged to consider what might happen in the real world if we would do what we are planning to do in the game world. Eberron, I believe, is designed to be the cure for those of us trying to escape the video game mentality that seems to grip our game (kill monster, collect treasure & xp, repeat.....). Forgive me if it seems as though I am sermonizing. I don't mean to. But after 17 years of playing this game, this is the only campaign setting that I have run as written, rather that just borrowing some material and discarding the rest. Eberron is the D&D game that I've always wanted to run, but didn't know how to create for myself. As much as I admire Ed Greenwood, Margret Weiss and Tracy Hickman for how they've enhanced my life over the years, through his creation, Keith Baker feels to me like a kindred spirit, even though I've never met the man. I hope you find this useful.
sythspawn 10-27-06, 11:00 PM	That's an interesting point you make about the "racism" inherent to the game. I've never really thought of it like that before. I've read the game is fantasy with a pulp feel. What about the setting is pulp-ish? How are the Action Point mechanics? I wonder if they're anything like the Force points in the Star Wars RPG.
Shady314 10-28-06, 05:49 PM	Look for it at any local bookstore. Once you've found it just start flipping through it. I guarantee after a few minutes you'll know if you want it or not. I'm guessing you'll want it.
goblin_pride 10-31-06, 02:04 AM	Forgive me if it seems as though I am sermonizing. I don't mean to. But after 17 years of playing this game, this is the only campaign setting that I have run as written, rather that just borrowing some material and discarding the rest. Eberron is the D&D game that I've always wanted to run, but didn't know how to create for myself. As much as I admire Ed Greenwood, Margret Weiss and Tracy Hickman for how they've enhanced my life over the years, through his creation, Keith Baker feels to me like a kindred spirit, even though I've never met the man. I agree wholeheartedly, but it's a bit closer to 22 years (man, I'm starting to feel old)
Goon_for_Hire 10-31-06, 09:48 AM	Eberron is an excellent resource because it gives you a framework for almost any kind of plot. I DM just about anything from cloak-and-dagger intrigue, to cyberpunk corporate corruption plots, to exploration, to evil world-domination stories. In the past I've had to custom-tailor worlds for each type of plot depending on what my players asked for. This can be a lot of fun with soem types of campaigns, but murder for others. Intrigue campaigns just aren't all that recylable: you have to create a legion of NPCs, complex plots, and political tangles that one group of PCs solve, but then, those plots are gone, and the next pary wouldn't be able to play another round of cloak and dagger in the same world. World Domination is about the same. The PCs steamroll over heroes, nations, churches, etc., and permanently cripple them. unless you want to switch perspective and attack the game from the opposite angle and have the players fight their old characters, your game world ends up a one-shot deal. And both are a lot of work... immense in fact. Eberron is the first campaign world since Mystara that doesn't seem built exclusively around war-stories and exploration (even Mystara was somewhat guilty of favouring those styles.) It has resources for any style of play you could ask for, and is so expansive, you can repeat the same style dozens of tiems without running out of plots, secret societies, and villains. The politics are snarled enough for a good spy-thriller or your standard Machiavellian set of courtly games. Eberron several big corporate bodies (The Dragonmarked Houses) ruling multiple guilds and funding inter-house organizations that can be rife with corruption, and yet are so big and fractious, that you can be guaranteed that the organization always has deniability and rogue factiosn to use late. Want a heavily mystical game? No problem, the Draconic Prophecy is vast, anceint, living, complicated, and can never be "fulfilled" but complex parts of it can come to pass while barely touching the whole. Want exploration? There are three dangerous, barely-inhabited continents to try your luck in. They set the game up so the environment books like FORSTBURN have material already integrated. Horror stories? Every country has at least two hideous, nightmarish places, whose corruption threatens to spread and consume us all. Brooding Angxt-saturated role-play fests? Just read up on the Warforged or the lost nation of Cyre. You have a nation of refugees scattered to the winds, unwanted, and slaughtered, alongside a race of living, breathing, feeling constructs thatnobody wants because they remind them of the War. Not to mention anation that turned most of it's dead soldiers into intelleigent undead who are starting to rmember the lives they lost. Fantasy Steampunk? There are several massive, magic-saturated cities run by corporate power. There is tons of material on dark and dangerous cities like Sharn. Hack-and-slash? Two nations on the Primary continent are ruled by monsters, who would normally be considered "just people" in the low-racism world of Eberron, except that they raid, slave, and pillage their hateful hearts out. About the only thing Eberron is a little short on is Epic play and Planar Adventuring material. And not even those are out of the question. Yes, I still use my custom worlds for some of those styles, but now I don't have to agonizingly piece together an intrigue campaign, just to watch players methodically unravel it never to be used again, for some of the others. Eberron can be used over and over again whenever I need a good, rich, and complicated setting for a style of play that demands richness and complexity. Not to mention, that if your players change on you suddenly, the world already can handle the new direction. My current Eberron campaign just ended a faerie-tale arc, and as the characters are looking for a more intrigue-laden story, they have a week-long airship journey that I can turn into Casablanca and Murder on the Orient Express with all of the factions and motives for spies I could ever ask for. Once my characters reach their destination (assuming they watch their expensive Karnaati wine for poison,) they will sign up for some time as explorers and guides for a University-funded expedition into a deep-dark jungle to search ruins for occult/archaeological finds while dodging cannibal Drow and savage gaints. Dr. Livingston, I presume? ;)
eehamburg 10-31-06, 01:27 PM	(man, I'm starting to feel old) And just how old is that??
johnkretzer 10-31-06, 01:42 PM	I reccomand highly that you buy Eberron, it is a great and rich world. It has a lowlevel feel but there is plenty of room for high level play. I personaly like it because it deals with my to biggest hang ups about D&D in general and the FR(I still like FR though). 1) I despies the alignemt system. When I hear a player said lets kill it it is evil it grates on me but D&D is very good vs evil which is fine but it lacks depth. Eberron has shades of evil and good which adds depth. 2)The pantheon of the FR is too involved in the affairs of mortals. Their existence is proven and if you play a aitheist you get completely screwed. In Eberron not only the gods don't get involved at all there mere existence is a mystery. With the possible exception of the Traveler. Though what he is exactly is a mystery.
Pallin Rahl 10-31-06, 02:19 PM	Introduce me to Eberron! Me: "sythspawn, this is Eberron. ...Eberron, sythspawn." Eberron: "Nice to meet you, sythspawn!" *shake-hands* /bow :dancin: :rimshot: --- Just picture a fantasy world where society has evolved logically with the use of magic... and you're on the right track. ;) Eberron's a solid setting that you can set just about any plot in... and the only published campaign setting I've ever fealt driven to actually run an campaign in (as opposed to homebrew). :)
Doom_Linnorm 10-31-06, 03:18 PM	Dang, what a good intro... I'm hooked on my own homebrew at the moment but this actualy made me waver. I think I'm atleast going to buy an Eberron book for ideas on political intregue. What would be the best book to buy for lots of info on that topic? I LOVE monstrous characters and thus also hate the traditional D&D racism. (In fact in my campaign world, the core races with the exception of orcs are huddled together in the southern part of the largest continent bickering while huge exotic cultures of mostly monstrous humanoids dominate the rest of the world.) (I have seven different lizardfolk cultures, one of which makes the greatest elven cities curl up in shame, no less then twelve homebrew humanoid cultures and twenty heavy alterations to existing D&D monster races.) Argh but I'm ranting on again... anyway, with so many cultures I can really use pointers on politics and games of cloak and dagger. WHICH BOOK?!
Goon_for_Hire 10-31-06, 03:39 PM	Argh but I'm ranting on again... anyway, with so many cultures I can really use pointers on politics and games of cloak and dagger. WHICH BOOK?! The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli ;) But seriously, I'd reocmmend having a nice long look at the Player's Guide to Eberron, and Sharn: City of Towers for good Cloak and Dagger material. I'd imagine the Dragonmarked book coming out next month will be a goldmine for C&D material.
Pallin Rahl 10-31-06, 04:06 PM	I was building a new homebrew world for a new campaign when I finally got around to reading the Eberron stuff... ...that homebrew world is still sitting there unfinished ;) By the time I got halfway through the Eberron Campaign Setting book I was already saying to myself "I so need to run a game in this world..." :D
sythspawn 11-01-06, 07:58 AM	Sounds cool. I bought the Campaign book the other day. Now I must find time to read it! :D
Thwyvylyn 11-01-06, 05:12 PM	Eberron is one of those things that breaks new ground rather than simply being an old something in a different skin. The level of "technology" in Eberron is one of the things I like the most. It has a very post world war 1 europe feel to me right down the use of poison gas (Eternal Wand of Stinking Cloud or Prismatic Mist does a decent job). Tanks show up (Warforged Titans) and the endlessness of the last war and the feeling of it reflects the feeling Europe had on WW1 afterwards. And yet just like WW1 Europe, things aren't over and done, they have simply paused.
lordalm 11-05-06, 07:09 AM	I agree wholeheartedly, but it's a bit closer to 22 years (man, I'm starting to feel old) Lets see I was about 10 when I got the basic box for my birthday....28 years. What have you been doing with your spare time???
lordalm 11-05-06, 07:16 AM	I reccomand highly that you buy Eberron, it is a great and rich world. It has a lowlevel feel but there is plenty of room for high level play. I personaly like it because it deals with my to biggest hang ups about D&D in general and the FR(I still like FR though). 1) I despies the alignemt system. When I hear a player said lets kill it it is evil it grates on me but D&D is very good vs evil which is fine but it lacks depth. Eberron has shades of evil and good which adds depth. 2)The pantheon of the FR is too involved in the affairs of mortals. Their existence is proven and if you play a aitheist you get completely screwed. In Eberron not only the gods don't get involved at all there mere existence is a mystery. With the possible exception of the Traveler. Though what he is exactly is a mystery. YES!!! I love the fact that I can take the world view of D&D and make it topsy turvey. There is a lich! "Oh my!" says the PCs. "Let us kill its evil!" they cry. But wait, you see it tending to the locals offering its centuries of knowledge to improve there lives and to heal them. Still want to kill the lich? Cause the group of 20 expert farming families just all got up in your face.....
lordalm 11-05-06, 07:23 AM	Dang, what a good intro... I'm hooked on my own homebrew at the moment but this actualy made me waver. I think I'm atleast going to buy an Eberron book for ideas on political intregue. What would be the best book to buy for lots of info on that topic? I LOVE monstrous characters and thus also hate the traditional D&D racism. (In fact in my campaign world, the core races with the exception of orcs are huddled together in the southern part of the largest continent bickering while huge exotic cultures of mostly monstrous humanoids dominate the rest of the world.) (I have seven different lizardfolk cultures, one of which makes the greatest elven cities curl up in shame, no less then twelve homebrew humanoid cultures and twenty heavy alterations to existing D&D monster races.) Argh but I'm ranting on again... anyway, with so many cultures I can really use pointers on politics and games of cloak and dagger. WHICH BOOK?! I would look at the City of Sharn source book. It has a lot of nifty infighting type stuff and puts it in a city that you can borrow bits from for your home brew. However, you'll need the Eberron Campaign Setting to really make sense of some of the references. I would also look at the Five Kingdoms for a more country vs. country political setting. It also details various prestige class based on spy on behalf of your country. Which, unlike most prestige classes to me, make sense and worth investing your time and energy in. So those 3 books aught to cover it for you. They also are pretty much all really need to have never ending fun on the continet of Khorvaire (where basically the game world is centered around).
OneWinged4ngel 11-06-06, 03:42 AM	There's quite a few reasons I find Eberron awesome. First, it tries to clear up the alignment system. Unlike most settings, it seems to *get it* (at least as far as is possible with such a self-contradictory system) when it comes to alignment, something that more than half of people seem lost on, while the rest just make assumptions based on their own beliefs which don't actually set any real standard. This can, in part, be blamed on the ambiguous wording in the PHB, and the generally poor way alignments are implemented (It's really a flawed system at heart, but that's another discussion). Regardless, Eberron shows us a world where 3 in 10 commoners are Evil. This doesn't mean that they go out and stab people, it just means they're not nice people. They still have their positive sides, however. An evil person can love and care. The Oathbreaker drow may be brutal and vicious to outsiders, but they are loyal and steadfast to their friends. Furthermore, it encourages more of the moral ambiguity and depth of character that we see in the real world. A visit to the Eberron board will show in a short moment how successful this has been. Debates rage on about why Aurala would stand as Neutral Good, though she plots to conquer the whole of Khorvaire by force, or why King Kaius is Lawful Evil, despite his role in the peace process ending a hundred year war, his devotion to his nation and its people, and his own secret war against the evil lich Vol. Eberron breaks the stereotypes, and encourages a deeper perspective. Second, the races are revitalized and invigorated with new and unique flavor. Few would argue that Zilargo gnomes fill the common gnoll role of comedic relief in Eberron. They're scheming, backstabbing little manipulators. Elves finally have a culture where I can really believe they have truly ancient traditions and cultural practices that seem to reflect a race that lives for hundreds of years that sets them apart, rather than being prettyboy, long-lived humans who like to live in the woodlands. Halflings are actually cool! The list goes on... even extending far beyond the PC races. Every single race has an interesting flavor. This leads to my third point... There are no fodder races. Be they orcs, kuo-toa, beholders, gnolls, goblins or medusas, everything with an intelligence score of 8 or higher is going to have a culture, and a history, and its own unique motivations. There is no such thing in Eberron as a race that is there for the sake of getting killed in battle by adventurers. Fourth, Eberron introduces a theme of faith based religion, which in my opinion vastly expands the horizons for interesting roleplay. There is no top authority in religion, and religion doesn't boil down to serving some guy because he's more powerful than you (like a king) and you want spells from him. You can have heretical sects of worshippers of the Draconic Sovereigns or sects that believe that Dolurrh leads to reincarnation. Clerics of evil deities can have perfectly noble causes, such as sacrificing things to the Devourer so that one can choose what is sacrificed, rather than allow the evil god to choose. You can create any sort of dogma you'd like, and have all sorts of discussions or morals, philosophy, and religion within the setting. Faith based religion allows for religious issues just as deep as the real world. Fifth, in Eberron the heroes are the PCs; not every other NPC born with a +4 pacifier (As some may be familiar with in Forgotten Realms). You aren't saving the world because some 25th level wizard in the hamlet over yonder is too lazy to get up and do something, but because by middle-range levels you're the only ones who can! Even at low levels, your PCs are truly exceptional. This is how it should be. PC classes have always supposed to be something exceptional, while most fall into the realm of NPC classes. Action points contribute even more to the heroism of the PCs, allowing for all sorts of heroic stunts. Sixth, Eberron embraces magic in its culture and world, rather than awkwardly placing it in some places to create extraordinary locations or just using it as a tool to kill monsters by PCs. Magic is put to use by society, and used for practical things, such as lighting the city streets endlessly with everbright lanterns or sending messages at the speed of wind. Eberron takes a rather low powered angle on magic, but that magic is as fully utilized as you would expect industrious humans to go. I've always sort of wondered about that in some other situations... Seventh, Eberron can be whatever the DM makes it, and leaves lots of room for the DM to develop. Eberron allows a place for just about everything you can think of. If you want to include material from whatever book that you like, you can bet that you'll find a place where it fits in snugly with Eberron. It leaves realms ripe for the shaping hands of the DM. You can fit whatever you like into it, with the proper synergizing of flavor, and it will fit snugly into Eberron. The DM's vision can vastly reshape this mutable setting into whatever he want it to be; the tools are certainly there. Finally, Eberron is a fully-supported setting, just like Forgotten Realms. We get a great supply of material for it coming out, including web articles, and the chance to talk to Keith Baker whenever we like on the forums! And despite being a well-supported setting, Eberron leaves us with a promise that it will not degrade in a way that a certain other campaign setting has. Eberron leaves room for the DM to create the world and tailor it to his wants and needs, taking comfort in the setting's promise to always leave many parts of the setting open and unexplained. WOTC promises to improve on mistakes of the past. Where Forgotten Realms' timeline was advanced out of hand by the novels, thus far it seems like they plan to stick hard and fast to the 998 YK limit, setting all novels before that time. Where other settings may map out all the details, DMs can find comfort in the faith that the cause of the Mourning will never be revealed, and Xen'drik will always remain a land of mystery. Hopefully, we can count on WOTC to stick to these promises, as they constitute part of the core of the setting's development (As Keith Baker has said himself, on numerous occasions). All of these things contribute to and reinforce my love for the setting. Eberron, to me, is a fresh addition to the D&D settings that was sorely needed, especially as it finally gives another fully-supported campaign setting to choose! Well, that's a start to reasons why it's awesome. These are really just basic, core concepts that contribute to making the setting great. Really, it goes much farther than this. There is incredible flavor and detail in the setting that really brings it to life, and a high energy pulp-action feel, and the more I learn of it the more I like it. However, to get the "details," you'll just have to buy the books. Happy gaming -OneWinged4ngel.
OzyBurrfoot 11-07-06, 11:13 AM	Me: "sythspawn, this is Eberron. ...Eberron, sythspawn." Eberron: "Nice to meet you, sythspawn!" *shake-hands* I had the exact same thought when I read the title of this thread.