Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Missekat 07-08-05, 10:51 AM	I absolutely suck at writing investigation scenarios. I always make the clue either too obvious or far to hard to find. Or i make them too few, or forget to plant red herrings and suspect people to stir things up. SO.. what im asking is could anyone help me with some good advice on some great detective adventures? What should i remember? How do i know if i made enough and good enough clues? What are good hooks and what is just too kliché or cheesy? etc. I just know there has got to be a ton of dm's out there who rock at this stuff, and im yearning to sit at your feet at lap up as much knowledge and inspiration as possible, + i can't be the only one who wants to get better at writing a "thinking adventure" :D
poeticyde 07-08-05, 11:11 AM	I like to set up investigations as logic puzzles...there is an excellent article about them in Dragon #282 about how to set one up. The key is to make clues essentially worthless by themselves, but when combined with other clues, they make sense and can be deduced. Here's a brief example... Let's say the characters are investigating a murder. They go to the scene of the crime, and find that the body had been stabbed multiple times in the stomach/lower torso area. There is a scrap of grey fabric in the victim's hand, and a few broken links from a gold chain lay about him. Eyewitnesses confirm that the attacker was of the Smallish sort, but no one got a clear look at his face. A city guard reveals that there were three individuals in the area that could possibly fit the description; Karl Kobold, Gary Gnome, and Harold Halfling. Now the characters have to do their investigation work. Using Gather Information, they can learn that Karl Kobold never wears jewelry and that Harold Halfling hates the color grey. Since this eliminates the two of them from being suspects based on the evidence, the only possible culprit becomes Gary Gnome. Again, this was a *really* brief example...but much more can be done by adding further variables and connections. It's all about making a graph, and creating questions that allow you to eliminate possibilities until only one fits all the clues. Hope this helps!
poeticyde 07-08-05, 11:13 AM	As an addendum, red herrings can be thrown in by expressing how much Karl Kobold loves his grey cloak or how flamboyant Harold's display of bling-bling is. ;)
Cloud Divider 07-08-05, 11:24 AM	I'm running a mystery adventure in Sharn right now. I'm hoping it's not too convoluted. I know at least one of my players reads these boards, so I won't reveal anything. If you're interested, I can give you specific details via PM. The biggest planning tool for me is the Relationship Map. What's a Relationship Map? It's kinda like a flowchart - you'll list items like "The Victim," "The Killer," "Suspect #1," and "Murder site." If you want to get fancy, you can key the items - a Circle denotes a person, a Square denotes a place, Diamond denotes an organization, Triangle denotes an object. Then, you'll draw connecting lines representing the relationship between the two items (write a keyword or a letter next to it, so you can describe it in expanded detail in the Key). The line could represent a Clue, a relationship, etc. So for instance, The Victim (item 1) was killed (by the Killer, Item 2) with a Bowie Knife (the clue - suggesting that he's got ties to the Brelish military; in my campaign, the Bowie Knife is standard issue to Brelish troops). Also, The Victim (Item 1) was last seen alive (Clue) at the Salty Dog Inn (Location Item 1). A visit to the Salty Dog (Location 1) will reveal that it's a pretty skanky bar, commonly used as a meeting house for the less virtuous vets who've taken up the rough-and-tumble lifestyle of a merchant marine/pirate/privateer (Item 3). Item 3 leads them back to the Killer (he's a pirate). There'd be another path of links that would suggest a motive. Red herrings become dead ends. Where the Relationship Map really becomes useful is when it starts looking more like a Web. This builds in the kind of redundancy you'll need to actually run a Mystery, without needing to artificially help the PC's along. In the example above, there's two links from the Victim to the Killer (murder weapon, and a longer investigation path that leads them to the Killer's occupation). If you'd like, I can scan a copy of my Relationship Map and email it to you. It's pretty complicated, but it hopefully explains things better being able to see one.
Master of shaarat'khesh 07-08-05, 11:27 AM	Well knowing where you are having problems is the first step... and since you seem to have an idea of where you're having problems, it's a good place to start. It may not be that you suck at writing the scenarios as much as you think. You seem to be describing a DMing problem more than a writing problem. It may be a simple solution of keeping notes at the game table to follow along while the players are moving their characters through your story. Highlighting certain elements of the story can help you to mention certain pertainent information they need, introducing the "red herring" , and so forth. As far as the difficulty of the clues and such, that's very dependent on your players as well as the DM. If they're just not getting it, you may need to introduce a "gimme" clue to help them along and keep things moving; like an DM played NPC who can drop less subtle hints to the mystery. Cheesy? There's always room for cheese :) . I've found that nothing can be too cheesy if it works, plus you might just get a chuckle to ease any tension in the game. Cheesy comic relief can be good as long as it's not overdone, usually once or twice a game is more than enough, and always be subtle with it and see if anyone picks up on the underlying clue. Good stories always have that cliched character that comes off as a little cheesy but says something that indicates he knew something or had knowledge that he didn't even know he had that helps to solve the mystery. My example would be that weasley guy from The Mummy or any of Indiana Jones's side kicks in those movies. Now inspiration for the mystery is difficult for most people. There are very few *good* mystery writers so, this just takes time and observation. You can easily get good ideas of how it's done by reading books by some one like Agatha Christy, or watching movies like the Maltese Falcon. They're not just good mysteries but sort of mood setting for Eberron as well. You can get good mystery comic books written today, Video games as well have alot to offer in the realm of mystery and action adventure, and there's always TV's very own Matlock or the old Unsolved mysteries show. :) Seriously, writing good storys is very rewarding you just have to be patient and observant and gain inspiration from whatever you can. I struggle sometimes as well and sometimes find alot of encouragement and inspiration on these boards from other DM's and players. I don't know if I helped any but good luck and good gaming :)
Missekat 07-08-05, 06:03 PM	U guys are actually helping a lot :-) And Cloud Divider, (u little ray of sunshine), once again i would very much like u to pm me some info. Not necessarily the whole adventure, just some basiqs. I've been using alot of time on the scenario i ran this evening, (they didn't finish it, but everyone seemed happy with the cliffhanger i threw at them when we had to stop). I know i missed out on some thing i should have remembered or thought of, like the players playing hardball on the gf to the suspect instead of just taking her word on face value. I ´didn't know just HOW paranoid these guys can be, (new group). And i didnt count on them returning to a npc used in an earlier adventure and wring him for info. So i just had to wing it. It went ok.. but its getting pretty obvious that a) im not used to players this paranoid and b) they are a bit more clever than i am! this is causing me some concern, since i might not give them enough of a challenge! Anyway.. we're playing the rest of the adventure wednesday, so i have about a week to try and tidy up my notes, and repair the worst holes in the plot with the "tools" u guys gave me. Still.. if anyone has even more ideas and advice, i wont say no :)
Hola 07-08-05, 06:09 PM	avoid slapping people with fish, it usually makes an adventure turn into chaos, the sad part is I'm not jokeing.
Naudachu 07-08-05, 06:31 PM	Smart players can actually be their own undoing. Players love to speculate and discuss at the table. That's where your best ideas come from. Oftentimes what they come up with is better than what you had planned. So, as long as nothing happened to contradict it, go with the new idea. The player will feel smart for figuring it out and you have a better story. Of course this will spawn other ideas that they may not see coming. Always have a twist. As far as clues and mystery. I agree that's great stuff, Cloud Divider. A much more visual approach. Something I think I've been trying to get at with scattered notes and emails to myself throughout the day. I'm going to try it when I get home. One thing that Eberron has brought to the fore is rival groups and factions. This is a great way to introduce clues. Although groups by themselves may be masterminds at stealth and subtlety, when they clash things are bound to fall through the cracks. Those sneaky assassins? Shadowy messengers delivering damning evidence? Its all out in the open without your organization looking like the Keystone Cops. Plus it adds another layer to a fight. Two groups are battling in the street, who do you side with? A large figure comes crashing through a hidden doorway. Something you may not have found by snooping around. But who's who? Especially now that goblinoids are citizens. Use the stereotypes as red herrings. The shining noble Hobgoblin. Greedy Kalashtar smuggler. The best part is you never stop learning. Use the players. They help make each campaign unique.
Missekat 07-10-05, 04:43 PM	Hola, i gotta hear that story!
Earthbinder 07-10-05, 07:43 PM	quick fix for patching up investigations that go wrong: think of three locations: 1. where they are now 2. where thay will go because of the problem 3. where you want them to be to get your plot back on-track then pick two people/adversaries 1 your BBEG/killer 2 the girl who has the clue put NPC 2 in location 2 because of what the BBEG/killer has done in location 3 with your players they should pop bak on track. oh an if your investigation ever bogs down have a man with a crossbow come in through the door "gunning" for the PC's (dont worry about why hes there just slap another link to location 3 on him)
Missekat 07-11-05, 04:38 PM	Actually my players have accomplished to utterly alienate "the girl with the clue". I made her as sympathetic as possible and still the fighter ends up slapping her around, (literally), to get her to "tell the darn truth!". It wont ruin anything.. it was just something i had never foreseen happening. Anyway, the girl in question is a changeling bard, and a tyrants agent at that. But since she is a small fish and the Tyrants are in good standing with the players, the only thing she can do to get even is to.. sully the stoopid fighters reputation :evillaugh It may not sound that evil, but since the player in question is rather pridefull and likes to have people think him tha cooles shifter ever to walk Sharn, it'll hurt him where he's bound to wince. I got Save-vs-DM to write me a wonderful taunting tune that will be distributed amongst the citizens of sharn in form of a flyer. I give ye, (in a slightly revised edition), the Ballad of Falco the Shifter by Mox, (Save-vs-DM) Falco is a strong young shifter There is no real doubt about that But from what I do hear It's certainly clear He's not so much muscles as fat Falco is a brave young shifter I know, ‘cos he says so himself But from what I do hear It’s certainly clear He’s courage is home on a shelf Falco’s a handsome young shifter So he acts, when around he struts But from what I do hear It's certainly clear That he is as handsome as grubs Falco is a wise young shifter Speak I lies, may I die from pox But from what I do hear It's certainly clear That he is as wise as an ox
Missekat 07-11-05, 04:40 PM	I've definetely needed that trick before, and I WILL use it :) Thnx
Airship_Pirate 07-11-05, 05:46 PM	My current game is actually based on the TV show Law and Order, but placed in Sharn. I structure the plot just like the TV show. Working backwards, I plan out the scenario (culprit, circumstances, plan, etc.), then I have the PCs called to the "crime scene". The trick is to give some obvious clues that lead to less obvious clues. In Law and Order, the first guy you suspect is almost never the actual culprit, though a good argument may convince the authorities that the person is actually responsible. Twists and turns are the key to a good mystery.
DoveArrow 07-11-05, 08:11 PM	I've only done one murder investigation campaign, but what worked for me was to start with the body. I then took the time to figure out who murdered him, why they murdered him and worked backwards from there. In this case, the body was a famous diplomat who, it turns out, is an inspired in disguise. The murderer was a half-elf sailor from Valenar. The reason he was trying to murder the diplomat was because he learned that the diplomat was trying to retrieve a special magic item for nefarious purposes from the country he was in negotiations with. Once I figured out who my murderer was and what his motives were, I started planning what kinds of encounters I wanted. In this adventure, I decided that that ultimately the PCs would wind up at the house of one of the diplomat's co-conspirators. There, they would discover that the diplomat's co-conspirator had reconstructed a goblinoid temple in the sewers for a special ceremony that would require the artifact the diplomat was trying to steal. Though the PCs might wind up there first, I figured the co-conspirator might be able to convince them that the half-elf was the real villain (the co-conspirator was a psion, after all). After that, it was just a matter of planting clues that would lead the PCs to the half elf (salty footprints, a few people in the tavern saying that they saw a shadowy figure heading for the docks), and a few clues that might help the PCs realize who the identity of the diplomat and finally some clues that might lead them to the co-conspirator (like a letter from the co-conspirator, an amulet linking him to the Dreaming Dark, a Spot check to notice the Inspired's disguise, and a diary with some sketches of the artifact he was trying to steal). My personal feeling is if you're worried that the PCs won't pick up on your clues, plant four or five. That way, if they don't notice the salty footprints, they have the address of the ambassador's letter to follow up on, and the people in the tavern who saw the half-elf. You might also plant other clues like a Valenarian poison found in the diplomat's goblet, or they might discover that a half-elf checked out of the tavern just hours before the body was discovered. In my adventure, the PCs didn't notice that the diplomat was an Inspired and they didn't recognize his amulet. They did discover the letter though, and the salty footprints. They talked to the tavern folk and learned that the half elf had gone to the docks, and ultimately they went to find him. Being an assassin/spy, the elf's ship was well guarded and there was a fight before the elf learned that the PCs were just investigating the situation. He then told them of the co-conspirator and together they went to take him down. Yay! Anyway, I hope this helps you with your adventure. Good luck.
Beleriphon 07-11-05, 08:32 PM	If you want good mysteries Law and Order, along with its many sister programs are excellent avenues for investigation type stories. Usually the easiest way to determine the clues is to start from the end and work towards the murder. Figure out the motive and you want the killer to be and you can work out the clues from that. Also see The Perfect Murder, preferably the original movie. It has wonderfully intricate murder plot, and a surprising twists to boot.