It's going to be a bad night for the shifters... [Archive] - Wizards Community

It's going to be a bad night for the shifters... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ORC_Paradox
10-02-05, 11:18 PM Living on a world with one moon, I am having a bit of a tough time trying to imagine one with 12 moons. I can visualize the ring and what it would look like in the night sky, but for the moons... eh...

So, I was looking at the Eberron Cosmology calander, and I wondered.. what date will have all the moons be full moons? It will happen at some point.

So far, I've got 9 moons on Sypheros 2nd, 2006. Can anyone figure out when all the moons will be full? (Or even the darkest night of Eberron- when all the moons are new!)

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebwe/20041129a
Beleriphon
10-02-05, 11:22 PM Living on a world with one moon, I am having a bit of a tough time trying to imagine one with 12 moons. I can visualize the ring and what it would look like in the night sky, but for the moons... eh...

So, I was looking at the Eberron Cosmology calander, and I wondered.. what date will have all the moons be full moons? It will happen at some point.

So far, I've got 9 moons on Sypheros 2nd, 2006. Can anyone figure out when all the moons will be full? (Or even the darkest night of Eberron- when all the moons are new!)

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebwe/20041129a

They all should be eventual, the problem is that Eyre in the utility is randomly assigned an orbit each time its launched. So the best that one can do is get all 11 full at the same time and hope that Eyre will be the same.
Tek
10-03-05, 12:19 AM As for the look of them in the night sky, some of them are smaller then our moon, and some of them are alot bigger.

I think the look going for some of the moons is this. (http://puvodni.startrek.cz/download/wall02.jpg)
Euangelion
10-03-05, 03:00 PM IIRC, someone mentioned that there's a date in the distant past in which all of the moons are full at the same time, and it was right about the time the first dragonmark appeared among the lesser races. This would have been posted sometime in early December, very soon after the moon calendar utility was published. But with search down, it'll be hard to find (and the poster may have been joking or something, I can't remember).
DoveArrow
10-03-05, 03:53 PM As for the look of them in the night sky, some of them are smaller then our moon, and some of them are alot bigger.

I think the look going for some of the moons is this. (http://puvodni.startrek.cz/download/wall02.jpg)

Actually, Earth's moon is rather unique in its size. Most earth-like planets, or at the very least earth-like planets in our solar system, have fairly diminutive moons that are little more than captured asteroids. Mars for example, has two moons, Phobos and Deimos, which can be seen in this picture (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap031024.html) as mere specks against the background of space. I would exect that Eberron's moons are comparable in size, because otherwise, their collective gravitational pull would cause enormous, fluctuating tides on the surface of the planet.

Another possibility is that Eberron's 'moons' are actually planets which have been mistaken for moons. One reason I suggest that is because even in Earth's history, we once believed that the planets were celestial bodies that circled the Earth. If the citizens of Eberron suffer from a similar misconception, it could be that they've mistakenly identified the planets in their solar system as moons circling the planet of Eberron, when in fact they go around the sun. It's something to think about, anyway.
Tek
10-03-05, 05:10 PM Except people have done calculations that have shown some of Eberron's moons to be 9 times the size of our current moon.
yossarius
10-03-05, 07:16 PM I was thinking about the # of moons Eberron has the other day. I was trying to imagine what tide schedules would look like, and my brain just locked up. I'm talking blue screen of death. I had to reboot and everything.
ChimericalWolf
10-03-05, 07:39 PM Screwed up tides assume such things as real-world physics, which we have no real proof of.

In fact, does anyone have proof that Eberron is a sphere and not, say, an infinite plane?
Thievingrouge
10-03-05, 08:13 PM Don't forget about the other 1,000's of moons, due to the ring of Siberys!
Raster
10-03-05, 09:22 PM Screwed up tides assume such things as real-world physics, which we have no real proof of.

In fact, does anyone have proof that Eberron is a sphere and not, say, an infinite plane?

As a matter of fact, we do :D

The continent of Sarlona is Khorvaire's neighbor to the east and west.

That means that it has to be round. Well at least east-west. It could be a cylinder, but I'm not betting on it.
Fuzzyd20
10-03-05, 09:46 PM Screwed up tides assume such things as real-world physics, which we have no real proof of.

In fact, does anyone have proof that Eberron is a sphere and not, say, an infinite plane?

In general it should be assumed that real world physics apply unless the books specifically say otherwise... or you're in Xoriat.
Euangelion
10-03-05, 11:26 PM Just remember that it isn't the size of the moon that matters when it comes to tides, it's how dense it is. There's not much information on that, except that pieces of one moon at least sometimes fall to the ground of Eberron. Dense moons don't often lose material except through violent explosions/eruptions, but a very insubstantial moon might easily lose material even if it's very large in size, so there's some indication that one of the moons is in fact not dense at all. So if none of the moons are dense, then they're effect on the tides will be neglible, and one dense moon would create tides comparable to Earth's. So, in the famous words of George McFly: "I am your density."
Salla
10-04-05, 12:42 AM it's how dense it is.

Oddly, I've used this line in reference to many people I encounter in my life.
Tiberien
10-04-05, 01:09 AM As a matter of fact, we do :D

Originally Posted by The ECS, page 129
The continent of Sarlona is Khorvaire's neighbor to the east and west.

That means that it has to be round. Well at least east-west. It could be a cylinder, but I'm not betting on it.

It could also be flat or concave with wrap around edges brought about with a teleport field or something.

Perhaps Eberron could even have a Mobius Strip configuration, around which the moons and sun travel at variable rates. That would explain the "physics" plus it would be really cool when seen from a distance. ;).
Tom McCarthy
10-04-05, 04:00 PM I've played with the Eberron cosmology tool enough to discover that:

a) the moons are all full every 7500 years or so (IIRC; check my older posts for confirmation)
b) while there are some events in the timeline with 7500 year spacing, the Eberron cosmology tool actually has all the moons full on the first night of the new year the very year when the first dragonmarks appeared among the halflings
c) the lunar cycles in that tool are such that you never get a night when all the moons are new/dark; they share a common one week divisor which prevents it
Tom McCarthy
10-04-05, 04:36 PM http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4817081#post4817081

That should get you to the thread where an exact date is noted.
Tom McCarthy
10-04-05, 04:40 PM I asked if Eberron was a sphere, but the closest I got to an answer was that you could sail east or west from Sarlona and hit Khorvaire. So sphere or cylinder, I guess.
DoveArrow
10-05-05, 03:03 PM Except people have done calculations that have shown some of Eberron's moons to be 9 times the size of our current moon.

I forgot about the dragonshard Keith did, but someone had a link to it so I checked it out. The earth's moon has a diameter of 2,500 miles. The largest moon of Eberron, Dravago, has a diameter of 2,000 miles. So whoever did the calculations that the largest of Eberron's moons is 9 times the size of our moon failed math. Meanwhile, if anyone cares, the average diameter of Eberron's moons collectively is 1,254 miles. That's about twice as large as the largest known asteroid, Ceres, which is roughly 623 miles in diameter, and only a little smaller than the smallest planet in our solar system, Pluto, which has a diameter of roughly 1,429 miles. Meanwhile, Mars' moon, Phobos, is roughly 5 miles in diameter.

Anyway, no matter how you slice it, these statistics pretty much throw my theories of captured asteroids and misinterpreted planets out the window. Well, unless the planets in Eberron's solar system are very very small.
Tom McCarthy
10-05-05, 03:38 PM I think the calculation was based on the idea that amoon of the size described, orbiting an Earth-gravity planet with the period given, needs to orbit closer and so fills more of the sky than Earth's moon.
Tek
10-05-05, 03:40 PM So whoever did the calculations that the largest of Eberron's moons is 9 times the size of our moon failed math.

Ah, my apologizes. I did not mean actual size, I meant apparent size. The distance from Zarantyr to the surface of Eberron is 14,300 km - much shorter then from Earth to the Moon, therefore making it appear about 9 or 10 times larger than our moon.
Euangelion
10-05-05, 03:58 PM By the way, I have 10 moons full on Nymm 28 and Lharvion 1, 1000, launching the utility from the online link, not my downloaded version. (I checked it twice, and Eyre was full both times.) I also have the same # (and the same moons, by the way) full on the same dates in 1015, with Rhaan missing being full with them by 2 days. There does seem to be a pattern around that time of the year every 15 years or so.
Streamweaver
10-05-05, 03:59 PM Ah, my apologizes. I did not mean actual size, I meant apparent size. The distance from Zarantyr to the surface of Eberron is 14,300 km - much shorter then from Earth to the Moon, therefore making it appear about 9 or 10 times larger than our moon.

Yea people are having difficulties with the concept of apparent size in my Moons of Eberron Image thread as well.
TheLoneCleric
10-05-05, 04:15 PM I remember that shifters/were are all tied to 1 moon. Imagine the poor folks who were tied to the 13th moon before it *pop*ed.
Tek
10-05-05, 08:14 PM I remember that shifters/were are all tied to 1 moon. Imagine the poor folks who were tied to the 13th moon before it *pop*ed.

Yeah, poor Cyrans. ;)
Sir Elton
10-06-05, 12:59 AM Screwed up tides assume such things as real-world physics, which we have no real proof of.

In fact, does anyone have proof that Eberron is a sphere and not, say, an infinite plane?

I use real world physics.
:)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ORC_Paradox 10-02-05, 11:18 PM	Living on a world with one moon, I am having a bit of a tough time trying to imagine one with 12 moons. I can visualize the ring and what it would look like in the night sky, but for the moons... eh... So, I was looking at the Eberron Cosmology calander, and I wondered.. what date will have all the moons be full moons? It will happen at some point. So far, I've got 9 moons on Sypheros 2nd, 2006. Can anyone figure out when all the moons will be full? (Or even the darkest night of Eberron- when all the moons are new!) http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebwe/20041129a
Beleriphon 10-02-05, 11:22 PM	Living on a world with one moon, I am having a bit of a tough time trying to imagine one with 12 moons. I can visualize the ring and what it would look like in the night sky, but for the moons... eh... So, I was looking at the Eberron Cosmology calander, and I wondered.. what date will have all the moons be full moons? It will happen at some point. So far, I've got 9 moons on Sypheros 2nd, 2006. Can anyone figure out when all the moons will be full? (Or even the darkest night of Eberron- when all the moons are new!) http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebwe/20041129a They all should be eventual, the problem is that Eyre in the utility is randomly assigned an orbit each time its launched. So the best that one can do is get all 11 full at the same time and hope that Eyre will be the same.
Tek 10-03-05, 12:19 AM	As for the look of them in the night sky, some of them are smaller then our moon, and some of them are alot bigger. I think the look going for some of the moons is this. (http://puvodni.startrek.cz/download/wall02.jpg)
Euangelion 10-03-05, 03:00 PM	IIRC, someone mentioned that there's a date in the distant past in which all of the moons are full at the same time, and it was right about the time the first dragonmark appeared among the lesser races. This would have been posted sometime in early December, very soon after the moon calendar utility was published. But with search down, it'll be hard to find (and the poster may have been joking or something, I can't remember).
DoveArrow 10-03-05, 03:53 PM	As for the look of them in the night sky, some of them are smaller then our moon, and some of them are alot bigger. I think the look going for some of the moons is this. (http://puvodni.startrek.cz/download/wall02.jpg) Actually, Earth's moon is rather unique in its size. Most earth-like planets, or at the very least earth-like planets in our solar system, have fairly diminutive moons that are little more than captured asteroids. Mars for example, has two moons, Phobos and Deimos, which can be seen in this picture (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap031024.html) as mere specks against the background of space. I would exect that Eberron's moons are comparable in size, because otherwise, their collective gravitational pull would cause enormous, fluctuating tides on the surface of the planet. Another possibility is that Eberron's 'moons' are actually planets which have been mistaken for moons. One reason I suggest that is because even in Earth's history, we once believed that the planets were celestial bodies that circled the Earth. If the citizens of Eberron suffer from a similar misconception, it could be that they've mistakenly identified the planets in their solar system as moons circling the planet of Eberron, when in fact they go around the sun. It's something to think about, anyway.
Tek 10-03-05, 05:10 PM	Except people have done calculations that have shown some of Eberron's moons to be 9 times the size of our current moon.
yossarius 10-03-05, 07:16 PM	I was thinking about the # of moons Eberron has the other day. I was trying to imagine what tide schedules would look like, and my brain just locked up. I'm talking blue screen of death. I had to reboot and everything.
ChimericalWolf 10-03-05, 07:39 PM	Screwed up tides assume such things as real-world physics, which we have no real proof of. In fact, does anyone have proof that Eberron is a sphere and not, say, an infinite plane?
Thievingrouge 10-03-05, 08:13 PM	Don't forget about the other 1,000's of moons, due to the ring of Siberys!
Raster 10-03-05, 09:22 PM	Screwed up tides assume such things as real-world physics, which we have no real proof of. In fact, does anyone have proof that Eberron is a sphere and not, say, an infinite plane? As a matter of fact, we do :D The continent of Sarlona is Khorvaire's neighbor to the east and west. That means that it has to be round. Well at least east-west. It could be a cylinder, but I'm not betting on it.
Fuzzyd20 10-03-05, 09:46 PM	Screwed up tides assume such things as real-world physics, which we have no real proof of. In fact, does anyone have proof that Eberron is a sphere and not, say, an infinite plane? In general it should be assumed that real world physics apply unless the books specifically say otherwise... or you're in Xoriat.
Euangelion 10-03-05, 11:26 PM	Just remember that it isn't the size of the moon that matters when it comes to tides, it's how dense it is. There's not much information on that, except that pieces of one moon at least sometimes fall to the ground of Eberron. Dense moons don't often lose material except through violent explosions/eruptions, but a very insubstantial moon might easily lose material even if it's very large in size, so there's some indication that one of the moons is in fact not dense at all. So if none of the moons are dense, then they're effect on the tides will be neglible, and one dense moon would create tides comparable to Earth's. So, in the famous words of George McFly: "I am your density."
Salla 10-04-05, 12:42 AM	it's how dense it is. Oddly, I've used this line in reference to many people I encounter in my life.
Tiberien 10-04-05, 01:09 AM	As a matter of fact, we do :D Originally Posted by The ECS, page 129 The continent of Sarlona is Khorvaire's neighbor to the east and west. That means that it has to be round. Well at least east-west. It could be a cylinder, but I'm not betting on it. It could also be flat or concave with wrap around edges brought about with a teleport field or something. Perhaps Eberron could even have a Mobius Strip configuration, around which the moons and sun travel at variable rates. That would explain the "physics" plus it would be really cool when seen from a distance. ;).
Tom McCarthy 10-04-05, 04:00 PM	I've played with the Eberron cosmology tool enough to discover that: a) the moons are all full every 7500 years or so (IIRC; check my older posts for confirmation) b) while there are some events in the timeline with 7500 year spacing, the Eberron cosmology tool actually has all the moons full on the first night of the new year the very year when the first dragonmarks appeared among the halflings c) the lunar cycles in that tool are such that you never get a night when all the moons are new/dark; they share a common one week divisor which prevents it
Tom McCarthy 10-04-05, 04:36 PM	http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=4817081#post4817081 That should get you to the thread where an exact date is noted.
Tom McCarthy 10-04-05, 04:40 PM	I asked if Eberron was a sphere, but the closest I got to an answer was that you could sail east or west from Sarlona and hit Khorvaire. So sphere or cylinder, I guess.
DoveArrow 10-05-05, 03:03 PM	Except people have done calculations that have shown some of Eberron's moons to be 9 times the size of our current moon. I forgot about the dragonshard Keith did, but someone had a link to it so I checked it out. The earth's moon has a diameter of 2,500 miles. The largest moon of Eberron, Dravago, has a diameter of 2,000 miles. So whoever did the calculations that the largest of Eberron's moons is 9 times the size of our moon failed math. Meanwhile, if anyone cares, the average diameter of Eberron's moons collectively is 1,254 miles. That's about twice as large as the largest known asteroid, Ceres, which is roughly 623 miles in diameter, and only a little smaller than the smallest planet in our solar system, Pluto, which has a diameter of roughly 1,429 miles. Meanwhile, Mars' moon, Phobos, is roughly 5 miles in diameter. Anyway, no matter how you slice it, these statistics pretty much throw my theories of captured asteroids and misinterpreted planets out the window. Well, unless the planets in Eberron's solar system are very very small.
Tom McCarthy 10-05-05, 03:38 PM	I think the calculation was based on the idea that amoon of the size described, orbiting an Earth-gravity planet with the period given, needs to orbit closer and so fills more of the sky than Earth's moon.
Tek 10-05-05, 03:40 PM	So whoever did the calculations that the largest of Eberron's moons is 9 times the size of our moon failed math. Ah, my apologizes. I did not mean actual size, I meant apparent size. The distance from Zarantyr to the surface of Eberron is 14,300 km - much shorter then from Earth to the Moon, therefore making it appear about 9 or 10 times larger than our moon.
Euangelion 10-05-05, 03:58 PM	By the way, I have 10 moons full on Nymm 28 and Lharvion 1, 1000, launching the utility from the online link, not my downloaded version. (I checked it twice, and Eyre was full both times.) I also have the same # (and the same moons, by the way) full on the same dates in 1015, with Rhaan missing being full with them by 2 days. There does seem to be a pattern around that time of the year every 15 years or so.
Streamweaver 10-05-05, 03:59 PM	Ah, my apologizes. I did not mean actual size, I meant apparent size. The distance from Zarantyr to the surface of Eberron is 14,300 km - much shorter then from Earth to the Moon, therefore making it appear about 9 or 10 times larger than our moon. Yea people are having difficulties with the concept of apparent size in my Moons of Eberron Image thread as well.
TheLoneCleric 10-05-05, 04:15 PM	I remember that shifters/were are all tied to 1 moon. Imagine the poor folks who were tied to the 13th moon before it poped.
Tek 10-05-05, 08:14 PM	I remember that shifters/were are all tied to 1 moon. Imagine the poor folks who were tied to the 13th moon before it poped. Yeah, poor Cyrans. ;)
Sir Elton 10-06-05, 12:59 AM	Screwed up tides assume such things as real-world physics, which we have no real proof of. In fact, does anyone have proof that Eberron is a sphere and not, say, an infinite plane? I use real world physics. :)