Post/Author/DateTime	Post
WizO_Sith 01-05-05, 12:46 PM	January is a time for new beginnings, and what better represents a new beginning than a first level character? 1st level is when: 1000 Gp is a fortune! A +1 longsword is the weapon of a Hero! Three Orcs are a serious threat! You can die in a bar fight! your possibilities are limited only by your skill and your resourcefullness! You're not jaded and sick of cheesy hyperbole yet! ;) Eberron is unique among D&D settings in that low-level PCs are much more evenly matched with the world around them. There are no 40th level Wizard20/Loremaster10/Archmagi10 running around to make your character feel about as potent as a kid with a stick fighting an aircraft carrier. So this thread is to discuss ideas involving first-level characters, adventures for them, and ways to improve the fun-factor of your low-level games.
Golbez57 01-05-05, 02:16 PM	I started our Eberron game at 5th level, and the characters have since advanced to 7th level. While we are all having a great time and the players handle their characters wonderfully, there's definitely some feeling of loss and regret now. As the characters are at a place where eyes turn towards them as they stroll through the city streets, there's still not a sense of "WOOT, look what we've become!"... because there's no point of reference of "RUN! We do NOT want to mess with that grick, our weapons are useless!" All of the following is what-I-would-do-if-we-could-do-it-over rambling. So this thread is to discuss ideas involving first-level characters... Now that I have a twice-read copy of Sharn: City of Towers, I would most definitely start the campaign there. As much as my players were willing, I'd encourage them to create characters from different parts of the continent. This would allow me to describe situations to them from their unique perspectives and, through an ongoing campaign, really root the game in the world. For instance, suppose the heroes delved into the ruined district of Fallen. A dragonmarked Tharashk half-orc ranger might take a keen interest in the various crystalline shards scattered about the area. The embittered fighter who served in the Cyran cavalry might feel a gnawing ached in her chest as she is reminded of the ruin that her homeland has become. The faithful cleric of Boldrei native to the city might wonder how the city officials could heartlessly leave the area as it is. Finally, the goblin sorceror from Droaam might see the seemingly-empty spires around him as a likely spot where more powerful beings might fly down in ambush. ...adventures for them... Since "sponsors" are woven heavily into Eberron's plots, I'd make use of them from the start. I'd think that the Clifftop Adventuring Guild would be a fun way to introduce the spirit of high adventure and the cat-and-mouse sort of machinations that go on in Eberron. Perhaps bored, seasoned, and well-off members have placed a wager amongst themselves to achieve one end or another using hand-picked groups of adventurers. This would serve as a simple way to bring together such diverse characters as I'd encourage the players to try. For later adventures, I'd aim for thingsthat grounded them solidly in the world--plots involving refugees from the Last War, the politics of the cities/nations/continents from which one or more of them originate, one of the unique new races, or magic gone awry would all serve that purpose well, I think. ...and ways to improve the fun-factor of your low-level games. Even moreso than later on, it'd be important to specifically design challenges that would allow each and every character to really shine. Using the characters described above, I might: Include the opportunity to Track, or calm animals, or use other skills unique or specialized to the ranger Set a scene where the fighter can make good use of her chosen feats, or interact with a character who will only respond kindly to a fellow refugee from Cyre A faithless NPC whose heart can by kindled, if only shown some kindness or the benevolent touch of one of the seemingly-distant gods An important clue that can only be understood by one who is able to read and/or speak Goblin, or a significant obstacle that can be most easily overcome by creative use of sorcerous magics This sort of emphasis allows everyone to contribute and feel (rightfully so) that their characters have important roles to play within the group beyond "I'll use all of these unique skills sometime", "I fight", "I run in and heal you so you don't die", or "I stand back here and cast spells on the bad guys". When this sort of comraderie and 'team mechanic' gets set early on, everything that follows should ultimately be more enjoyable for each person around the gaming table. Also, it's especially important to let them celebrate their victories, I think. The sort of "we did good, but at what price...?" agonizing should be the province of characters (and players) that already have some success and some reasons to stick together. Good thread idea, WizO_Sith!
Blizzard_Bobsan 01-10-05, 04:08 PM	I like first level. Something more - I LOVE it. This is, of course, something very personal and probably most people wouldn't agree with me (you, munchkins, you :D ), but I never felt a character "real", if he hasn't been played, slowly and deliberately, from the first level up. In my opinion, every adventure adds some detail to the hero, and low-level adventures are particularly important. That's one very important reason why I'm so excited about Eberron - it offers endless possibilities for playing at low levels and the players still feel like true heroes and are not dwarfed by others (unless thay are drawrves, of course :rolleyes: ). In my main Eberron campaign I made the level advancment real slow - my players reached level 3 and we played over 20 sessions already, yet nobody is unhappy with this pacing. One reason is that the campaign has few combats and mostly puts emphasis on roleplaying, another is that my sessions are relatively short, and a third is that I don't use the official rules for calculating experience.
Master of shaarat'khesh 01-10-05, 05:12 PM	I also love a first level character. The way I view it is like building a house. Sure, the house, when finished and ready to move into is great. It's a beautiful monument to design. It's a sturdy structure ready to serve and be lived in. But, whatmakes the house really great? It's the foundation. Well that's what first level is to me. It's the foundation to what will eventually be great. I also DM advancement very slowly at the first few levels because it's the time that every player should build that foundation and develope the PC. The events that happen to us in real life are what shape who we are or will become. I tend to use this same philosophy when running or playing lower level PC's. Some of those events are some of the funnest and most memorable from a gaming standpoint. I mean, sure slaying a dragon at 17th-20th level is cool and talked about around the table out of character as well as in. But some of the most talked about events happen when everyone is just trying to survive. I mean who doesn't laugh when you try to accomplish some great heroic feat that you just know you can roll to beat that DC and save the day only to have you character waking up a few days later broken beat and bloody? I'll always remember when I was playing Ranger at first lvl. when a fire was sweeping through an inn and a girl was trapped in a second floor widow to afraid to jump. So I whipped out my rope and grappling hook and proceed to throw it up there with the intention of climbing up to rescue her. I mean how hard can that be? Well, I managed to throw the grappling hook allright, right into the girl. Yep I rolled so poorly that I actually managed to pierce her with one of the hooks and it caught and grabbed so I yanked not actually realizing that she was pierced. That is until she screamed in agony and then to top it all off I tried to make it better and pull the hook out of her only to actually pull her, via the grappling hook to the ground. As my DM put it, "You did manage to save her from the fire but... now all of the villagers are standing there in shocked awe at your utter incompetence, oh and the fire is still burning". "Oh and while you are trying to figure out what just happened, you all hear the cries of another trapped person on the second floor. So, what's everyone doing?" Anyway, I love first level. that little incedent happened a long time ago but I still get a good chucke when I think how much fun that character ended up being.
DJDave 01-11-05, 05:39 AM	first level is great fun but it's kinda scary when you nearly kill your entire party by accident :eek:
Grynn 01-11-05, 10:08 AM	This works perfectly for me, because I am actually starting up a new campaign at first level right now. I've got a NG Human cleric of Dol Arrah, CN Warforged soulknife, N Jorasco Halfling rogue, and a CN Shifter Barbarian. All of them are sturdy enough that I won't have to hold back with the encounters.
Kinger 01-11-05, 04:50 PM	I haven't played much at first level, really, but I have enjoyed it. It's actually rather humbling. :) Level 6 Party: "Oh hell! An Ogre-Mage!" Level 1 Party: "Oh hell! A 20ft pit in the floor!" Ah, good times...
scaryfroman 01-11-05, 09:11 PM	Ah. First level. fun times... fun times... It does seem to be what makes a character really amazing. I recall some great first (or near first) events of mine. Most don't involve combat. That is no surprise to me. First level characters, to be fair, arent the most powerful characters. Your fighter is dishing out 2d6+3 with a greatsword, your wizard is slinging MM's and your cleric is constantly losing init (and not on purpose). I find this to be when the characters are born. 1st levels are searching for ways not to be killed, not searching for pure XP (although, my 1st's and 2nds have killed bodaks and redcaps, but that's another story).
Nature-boy 01-11-05, 10:54 PM	Oh first level, of course. That was just last week! The warforged was hacking up those nasty rats with the Kalashtar right beside him with his Mind Blade while the half-elf rogue slipped off a railing in the high towers of Sharn. :w00t: I couldn't stress my players enough to have a well balanced party... i.e. a warrior, healer, arcanist, and a scout. Regardless they all played warrior types (the rogue and even the WF Wilder was geared toward combat) and they learned their lesson. For all you PCs out there, always ALWAYS listen to your DM. This is a major way to improve the fun factor of your characters--they last longer. Now the new party consists of a WF Wilder, a Kalashtar Soulknife, a Valenar Cleric (Silver Flame), and a half-elf Rogue. Now that's what I'm talking about, although that Wilder isn't heeding my advice to put an ability score higher than 13 in Charisma........especially if he wants to be a Pyromancer. Oh well, I've found another flaw with his character that I will be dropping on him next session. He is neither proficient with his greatsword nor the heavy armor of his Adamantine Body. What is that--a -9 to Atk rolls? Maybe next time he'll LISTEN to his DM. And I'll bet he takes a level of Fighter next to patch things up. ALWAYS LISTEN. Especially if your DM isn't the type who is out to get you.
helzapoppn 01-12-05, 03:47 PM	The enemies you make at 1st level are the ones who stay with you for life. The great thing about Eberron is the sheer variety of potential enemies. In my campaign, the PCs have already p.o.'d the Lord of Blades, the Emerald Claw, a Cult of the Dragon Below, Daask and at least one faction of House Cannith. And the highest level party member is 5th level (we've had four fatalities and two retirements, one of whom is now a recurring NPC villain). My only regret is not prolonging the 1st level "agony" more than I did.
helzapoppn 01-12-05, 03:50 PM	Now the new party consists of a WF Wilder, a Kalashtar Soulknife, a Valenar Cleric (Silver Flame), and a half-elf Rogue. Now that's what I'm talking about, although that Wilder isn't heeding my advice to put an ability score higher than 13 in Charisma........especially if he wants to be a Pyromancer. Oh well, I've found another flaw with his character that I will be dropping on him next session. He is neither proficient with his greatsword nor the heavy armor of his Adamantine Body. What is that--a -9 to Atk rolls? Maybe next time he'll LISTEN to his DM. And I'll bet he takes a level of Fighter next to patch things up.Just a quick side note...if a Warforged takes a Body type feat, he is assumed to be proficient. It's an Armor Bonus as if he were wearing Heavy Armor, not actual Heavy Armor requiring a separate Proficiency feat.
Nature-boy 01-13-05, 09:13 PM	Just a quick side note...if a Warforged takes a Body type feat, he is assumed to be proficient. It's an Armor Bonus as if he were wearing Heavy Armor, not actual Heavy Armor requiring a separate Proficiency feat. I would like to point you to this thread. Lots of discussion on that matter. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=5230795#post5230795
The Designated Rogue 01-14-05, 01:39 PM	Looks like someones getting krunky. :eek: :D Anyway, 1st level happens to be my favorite time of gaming. You get to start with a clean slate and throw out a fresh new idea. Its when 5 points of damage is a REALLY big deal.... ...except when your a Cleric of the The Silver Flame.... Then its just repetitive. :cool:
Yasumoto 01-16-05, 08:26 AM	1st lvl in Eberron should really emphasize more of an "exploration theme" to get to know the world and what not. i mean ... as it's been said before, the time to totally be godly is lvl 20ish, not when you have to run like crazy from an ambush of 2 goblins (don't ask ...) :)
rhoan_01 01-16-05, 04:34 PM	To help set the stage for a beginning party, I'll have them answer certain questions about their characters. Some of this comes straight from the Eberron book, a few I added myself. Call it my PC Questionnaire: 1. Why did you decide to be (insert class here)? 2. Where were you born? 3. How did the Last War affect you? (Possible responses: Ftr; I was a soldier, a lieutenant in charge of a platoon. Wiz; I was training fron-line soldiers in a few spells; mage armor, true strike, etc. Drd; I left Karrnath to live in the Eldeen Reaches to avoid being drafted; drafters usually are the first turned into skeletons.) 4. How did you get to Sharn? (We started here) 5. Do you have any enemies? How did you make those enemies? 6. What is your favorite: - Drink? - Food? - Pastime or thing to spend gold on? - Friend? - Insult? ("You slimy Karrnathi maggot-sweeper! Go kiss a lich!") Sometimes I give them worksheets, others I just ask them straight out. It really helps them put themselves in context with the world, and get more attached to their characters.
Calculus Brown 01-17-05, 09:43 AM	All kidding aside, I am actually considering starting an Eberron campaign with the players at "zero level". Essentially it will consist of the players arriving for the first day of classes at the oh-so prestige-less Morgrave University. The first adventure will be more of a young adult detective story. The action will come from tailing a suspicious character and a small encounter with a couple of first level thugs. I see it as more of a Hardy Boys thing than a Raymond Chandler novel to start them off. The reason I am leaning this way is that I want them to get a good feel for the differences between the majority of the D&D campaigns they have been in and the distinct attitude that Eberron embodies. It also stems from my feeling that D20 and Eberron in particular really provoke the player into asking, "Ok. Where do I want to be at 5th level, 10th, 15th, and 20th?". I would like them to make their decisions about their skills (and first level feats if at all possible) AFTER they have had a taste of the action that they are likely to encounter. I thought about having them run some pre-made characters through the forge adventure. However, I would prefer them to run the character they will be playing in order to enhance the story. My main concern is that there are a number of first level only feats. I would most likely have them choose that one that heroes start off with and level them after the first adventure. I would appreciate your views on this! Thanks
Yasumoto 01-18-05, 12:18 AM	it sounds good. in terms of first-level only feats, im assuming you mean things like racial feats and such. you could choose to let them choose them now, but that would defeat the entire purpose of this "try before you buy" adventure. so in this case, you could either ignore them for now and not really concentrate it. or, to try to make it more believeable, you could have everyone wearing cloaks, or not really knowing each other (i don't recall how big morgrave university is, but your pcs may not know each other) so it may be that only after the adventure, and they "level up" to 1st lvl and fill in their backstory fully that they get to know each other. *phew* im not sure if that all made sense ... but those are just some basic ideas.
Fedifensor 01-18-05, 01:19 AM	Well, I just ran the first adventure of our round-robin campaign. All the characters were first-level, except for the warforged fighter who started at 2nd (because he's a pretty standard model, and most of the standard warforged were 2nd level fighters). Everyone leveled to 2nd at the end of the adventure, save for the warforged fighter who simply stayed the same level. The adventure was a flashback set in Cyre, called The Fog of War. The characters were elite troops in their unit, often called upon to handle special tasks by the commander (such as capturing an enemy leader during an attack). Since the characters were on the side of Breland, I ran them through a few encounters with the other factions - a mission to take out a Karrnathi supply caravan, the aftermath of a Thrane attack on a Cyre inn, and then the big clash of Breland and Cyre forces. Then, the theme quickly changed from war to survival, as they barely survived the approaching fog (hiding in a cave, with the NPC artificer using a one-use item to create a wall of force over the entrance). The last encounter involved skeletons and living spells (burning hands and pyrotechnics), before they reached the edge of the fog and made it back into Breland. The group did pretty well. I think I accomplished my goal of giving a sense of the grim nature of war, the goals of the different factions, and the horrifying transformation of Cyre into the Mournland. The group agreed to meet on the anniversary of the disaster once the war was over. The next adventure for the group is The Forgotten Forge, modified to handle 2nd level characters. For the record, we had the following PC's: * Human Paladin - She was called by the Silver Flame, but not yet fully aware of her faith. She spent a considerable amount of time talking to the Thrane chaplain they captured. * Shifter Ranger - From the Eldeen Reaches. The player could have chosen either Cyre or Breland to assist, and finally chose Breland to make the scenario easier to run. Did very well as the group's scout. * Dwarven Artificer - A citizen of Breland with blood ties to House Kundarak. His Mark of Warding manifested while on the battlefield, but he chose to hide it until the end of the war. * Warforged Fighter (actually a Barbarian 1/Fighter 1) - A fairly standard assault model, the character was oddly interested in peaceful activities like picking daisies while not in combat. * Warforged Monk - A relatively-new design, it proved rather effective in combat, and was primarily responsible for taking down the Karrnathi zombie guarding the enemy commander. * Changeling Rogue - An infiltration and extraction specialist, she proved valuable in analyzing the aftermath of a Thrane attack (using her Investigate feat).
Calculus Brown 01-19-05, 04:03 AM	Very good indeed! I like the 'Flashback' introduction. It allows for the possibility of additional military units to arrive as 'backup' in case the characters think they are stronger than they actually are. It also gives em a chance to see what battle is like, provide the background for the inter-personal connection they have, and let them see what the world is like before they make too many choices about where they want to end up in it. To answer Yasumoto's question I would let the character in question have any one extra feet granted to him at first level. Say for instance you are a Human Fighter. 1st level gets them a feat, being a fighter gets them another, and being human another on top of that. They would have the option of filling in the feat that being Human grants them. Thanks for sharing your approach to this with me, It has REALY helped me out. Thanks again! -Sorry, I was half asleep when I originally wrote my response. I appologize if it was kind of garbled!
wisepeppy 01-26-05, 12:11 AM	I'm currently playing a 6th level artificer who I've leveled up from 1st level over the course of the last 5 months. This is my first time playing e3.5, and I insisted that our DM start us at 1st level so I could get a feel for how the game played. As an artificer, each level provides you with a new class feature that takes some time for familiarize yourself with. I wish I'd had more time at each level to play my character - we leveled up once every session for the first 3 sessions, as I recall. Also, an artificer needs some time at home between sessions to use up his craft reserve. When you level up, I think it's important to use every new skill or feat you aquire before you level up again. I didn't always get that chance - we leveled up on the run all the time.
PoeticJustice 01-26-05, 03:00 PM	Hoo boy, this is the first time I've really played from the first level up(I DM highpower campaigns mostly, currently taking a break from the screen), and it sure is an experience. So far my biggest thrill was finally being able to afford that suit of Flametouched Full-Plate (I'm a silver flame cleric). I'll echo what everyone has already said: It's much more fun when there is a very real possibility of losing in anygiven venture. It's a lot of fun working to gain spells of power. That first magic weapon (along with the subsequent sigh of relief "I don't have to waste spell slots with Magic Weapon anymore") is a lot of fun. Knowing that the prestige class is a distant dream is agonizing, but suddenly you're perched on the edge, about to take the first level in it, and its a good feeling.
The Steve 01-28-05, 10:39 AM	I'm personally starting a game with a group of 1st level non-PC class PCs (that's right, commoners, warriors, magewrights - that lot) They'll be starting in their home town and, essentially "growing up" for a level, finding their true calling, and then getting to choose PC classes at 2nd level onwards. Oh, and they're getting good, old fashioned 3d6 rolls, no switching, just to really weed out the min/maxxers. :D
Brastan 01-28-05, 11:12 AM	:pint: A Happy New Year 28 days late! It was time to start again, my first Eberron campaign stalled and just about died some time ago. Now, with a full set of adventures published and information gleamed from lurking on spoiler threads I can run a coherent campaign. I await my players final character stats but so far I know there's a Ninja, Daniel of Lessyk a Cleric of Dol Dorn, and some sort of spell caster or psion. A small group but the players backing them know first level very well and have something XP can't buy, love! No, wait that's not right. :thinks: Teamwork, that's what they have! Coming up this Saturday, The Forgotten Forge. :evillaugh