Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Setherial 01-06-06, 08:32 AM	Hey guys I was reading the forum and this idea just hit me: What if the players somehow overheard or found out about a complex plan to smuggle a weapon, a magical fang dipped in the blood of a werewolf, into the most sacred building (sorry it's been a while since I read up on Thrane or the Silver Flame) of the Flame and infect some very high placed cardinal or some important figure with Lycanthropy. It would be a revenge action with roots dating back to the time of the purge, with many people involved, a lot of bribery and scandal, it would be a plan to disgrace one of the church's finest and embarrass the church. They would have to kill on of their own leaders... (lets say there was no cure or a very hard to get your hands on cure...). Is this an idea worth digging into or is it a dead end ? cheers Seth
Turkforged 01-06-06, 09:06 AM	That is a great and sadistic idea! That kind of revenge will be the best. Like any pure revenge, it is meaningles. BUT if that cardinals/priest influence is damaging yours, it is really hard, but some actions goal and satisfy is greater than profit. If the cardinal is not zealous or pure, he/she will try to hide this curse, and will try to end it. But, if it has great faith in Flame, he can just kill himself. That can make him hero too. A painful and disappointing death, but with faith.
Nurgan_the_drunked 01-06-06, 09:25 AM	This has potential, I like. Depending on how you run Lycanthropy, you may also then run it so that the now infected Cardinal is unaware of his actions, or potentially that he is somehow keeping his lycanthropy under control using spells or potions (or maybe he just thinks he is). The potential for a werewolf who can keep himself concealed in Flamekeep has great potential for mayhem. It's also acknowledged that there are occasional lycanthropes around, so perhaps a vengeful one of these wishes to infect the Flame as revenge? This gives a great stance for some moral greying of issues, letting him really play the "sympathy" card.
Setherial 01-06-06, 09:52 AM	It's also acknowledged that there are occasional lycanthropes around, so perhaps a vengeful one of these wishes to infect the Flame as revenge? This gives a great stance for some moral greying of issues, letting him really play the "sympathy" card. yes ofcourse, this is my aim as well, it is very Eberronish and forces the players to take sides about an issue that is way more complex then your typical everyday black and white Dnd. Both of you already gave me new ideas, keep 'm comming !! some questions: - who is the antagonist - what are his motivations (these must be something the party can feel for) - who is involved, how far does this thing reach - what is the ultimate goal - how will the plan be executed - where do the pc's come in - how do they get manipulated/played -...
Melvin the Mediocre 01-06-06, 10:21 AM	Once the fang is properly enchanted, how about hiring the PC's to infect him?
Nurgan_the_drunked 01-06-06, 11:30 AM	OK, this'll need tweaking, filling out and some defenestrating, but here's my plan: The party are hired to deal with a group of shifters, and look for (and return) an assassin amongst their midst, who attempted the murder of Cardinal Acheroy of the church of the Silver Flame. The Cardinal gave them a description, but is not about at current. The PCs travel to the location of the shifters, and can deal with them suitably. The shifters may well be hostile to outsiders, but they aren't very hostile, and can be talked with. Either way, whilst the party are "negotiating", out of the woods emerges a very nasty lycanthrope hybrid- thing (this one may call for templates and beefing) attacks the encampment, in a furious crazed rage. The party, with some aid from the shifters, deal with the creature, which turns into a human upon death. The party then find the "assassin" (named Lupin), who explains the following: - Cardinal Acheroy had ordered a cleansing attack upon his people (some of whom were full werewolves), and he had tried to get vengeance by stabbing him with the lycanthrope dagger, to teach him a lesson. - He got the dagger from a "sympathetic benefactor" (who is in fact, a member of an evil group, perhaps the Lords of Dust?) - He was told the dagger would cause some fairly harmless form of werewolf lycanthropy to anyone it cut, and that its affects would fade. Lupin wanted to teach Acheroy a lesson, but not change him too greatly (or perhaps give him a memory of his past actions) - He recognises the form of the monster that attacked as a bandit who attacked him on his return. He retaliated with the dagger, and the bandit retreated. Lupin is deeply shocked by what happened to the bandit, and is even more concerned about what he has done to Acheroy. He will ask the party to help Acheroy, and offers to go with them to make amends. Acheroy himself quickly realised about his infliction but has decided to keep it quiet. He has discretely purchased some potions to keep his affliction under control, and is regularly drinking them, although he's having to keep increasing his doses to maintain control. After all, it would be terrible if the council of Flamekeep found out about this before his election to archbishop. He can get it treated after then, surely? Nothing can go wrong....
Rechan 01-06-06, 12:51 PM	The only thing I can add, Nurgan, is rather than use the LoD, why not something like the Pack, The Droaam werewolves. Or, even better, the Traveler. After all, this seems like something right up the Traveler's alley; someone intending to do wrong to another, and it being a much more powerful wrong-doing than they intended (the road to hell is paved with good intentions).
Aldarc 01-06-06, 02:30 PM	But at the same time you must refabrications of this act of turning a high priest into a lycanthrope. There will indeed be scandal, but it may also cause a backlash against shifters and a renewal of sorts into the Purge.
Euangelion 01-07-06, 01:33 AM	I believe that you'll have to come up with a better reason why the Cardinal won't go immmediately to Jaela and say "Umm, I've just been infected with lycanthropy!" and get cure disease or heal if within 3 days of affliction or remove curse faster than you can say "With twelve moons in the sky one of them has to be full soon!" There would be no stigma to being an afflicted lycanthrope in her eyes, since this isn't the Church of the Silver Flame circa YK 845, after all. There's probably a group in the theocracy specifically trained to help those afflicted with lycanthropy (and not by running a sword through them!) Then again, among the Puritans in Aundair that may be a different story... perhaps they would move against the Cardinal fearing that his cure may have been faked.
Setherial 01-08-06, 08:20 AM	I believe that you'll have to come up with a better reason why the Cardinal won't go immmediately to Jaela and say "Umm, I've just been infected with lycanthropy!" and get cure disease or heal if within 3 days of affliction or remove curse faster than you can say "With twelve moons in the sky one of them has to be full soon!" There would be no stigma to being an afflicted lycanthrope in her eyes, since this isn't the Church of the Silver Flame circa YK 845, after all. There's probably a group in the theocracy specifically trained to help those afflicted with lycanthropy (and not by running a sword through them!) Then again, among the Puritans in Aundair that may be a different story... perhaps they would move against the Cardinal fearing that his cure may have been faked. Yes that's why I said, lets presume there is no easy cure... Anyway, what if the Dark Pack worked a 100 years at perfecting a mutated strand of lycanthrophy just to get back at the flame. Now their dark plans are about to become reality. They'll hire some shady organization (Daask maybe) to hit and kidnap a highly placed Thrane diplomat and Cardinal of the Flame while he visits Sharn. They'll infect him without him knowing about what they did and they let him escape. Here the party might already have been put into play to track down the kidnappers and free the Cardinal. This in fact might be what happens, they free him but by doing so cause catastrophy. Cardinal returns to Flamekeep, a month goes by, 12 moons align and the good Cardinal changes into a monster. Something like the new type of vampires in Blade II, genetically manufatured by the Vampires but now their enemies. The Pack might have cut a deal with Mordain the Fleshweaver to create this new mutation. Once the Cardinal changes he starts feeding, he attacks at random causing mayhem and terror. Those not killed outright change into new mutated werewolfs within the hour. The disease spreads faster then the plague as more and more werewolfs are formed... Seth
Lurkalot 01-08-06, 10:28 AM	Just to offer another tweak, it doesn't have to be the cardinal himself that is infected. How about someone close to him? That could give him even more motivation to conceal the infection and it makes it more likely that a cure isn't sought right away. Suppose your daughter returns from Aundair after a couple of months away. She's acting a bit jumpy for some reason. If she's already killed, then simply asking for a cure through the normal channels wont be an option. So now the cardinal has a secret that is just as damaging to him, is even more of a dillema and is compelled to seek help outside the church. Besides, who wants to see a musty old cardinal rampaging through the pews? Turning his only child is a much colder revenge for some surviving lycanthrope, perhaps the daughter of a werewolf the cardinal killed in his younger days.
Turkforged 01-08-06, 10:43 AM	Well, another side to this story; what if Aundair learns this plan? Or What if Aundair planned this mission? Aundair hates both groups (Eldeen Reaches and Thrane). He may choose to support one, or create a scandal which will raise tension between two of them.
Setherial 01-08-06, 05:30 PM	Just to offer another tweak, it doesn't have to be the cardinal himself that is infected. How about someone close to him? That could give him even more motivation to conceal the infection and it makes it more likely that a cure isn't sought right away. Suppose your daughter returns from Aundair after a couple of months away. She's acting a bit jumpy for some reason. If she's already killed, then simply asking for a cure through the normal channels wont be an option. So now the cardinal has a secret that is just as damaging to him, is even more of a dillema and is compelled to seek help outside the church. Besides, who wants to see a musty old cardinal rampaging through the pews? Turning his only child is a much colder revenge for some surviving lycanthrope, perhaps the daughter of a werewolf the cardinal killed in his younger days. brilliant, I love it !! Well, another side to this story; what if Aundair learns this plan? Or What if Aundair planned this mission? Aundair hates both groups (Eldeen Reaches and Thrane). He may choose to support one, or create a scandal which will raise tension between two of them. yes, this is good twist. Aundair sure hates thrane so if it can cause some mayhem over there it's in. If Aundair has a hand in creating a magical disease that looks a lot like lycanthrophy but is far worse and unleashes it among the flamers it does not only deal them a blow but it will start something far more ugly. A new Purge. This would weaken both Thrane and it's enemies, Droaam, The Eldeen Reaches among others. If thrane grows weaker the opportunity for both Karnath and Aundair to take back some land will quickly rip apart a helpless Thrane.
Rechan 01-08-06, 06:28 PM	Cardinal returns to Flamekeep, a month goes by, 12 moons align and the good Cardinal changes into a monster. To quote the Moon Dragonshard (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050307a): The full moon has a powerful effect on lycanthropes -- and on Eberron, a shapeshifter may have to contend with the influence of multiple moons on a single night. A creature afflicted with lycanthropy changes involuntarily into animal form whenever one of the twelve moons is full. An afflicted creature can resist the involuntary transformation with a successful Control Shape check (see Monster Manual, page 303); however, for each additional full moon after the first, apply a -2 penalty to the check. This means that an afflicted lycanthrope has to contend with the effects of the curse an average of nineteen nights of the month. Thus, rarely does an afflicted lycanthrope last a week before the curse takes hold and permanently alters her alignment.
Turkforged 01-09-06, 01:31 PM	yes, this is good twist. Aundair sure hates thrane so if it can cause some mayhem over there it's in. If Aundair has a hand in creating a magical disease that looks a lot like lycanthrophy but is far worse and unleashes it among the flamers it does not only deal them a blow but it will start something far more ugly. A new Purge. This would weaken both Thrane and it's enemies, Droaam, The Eldeen Reaches among others. If thrane grows weaker the opportunity for both Karnath and Aundair to take back some land will quickly rip apart a helpless Thrane. Indeed, a great campaign mission for PC's who work for (or against) the Royal Eyes of the Queen. But, there is a problem. Shapechangers (werewolves etc...) are near to extinct. So, If we want to make Flame mad, it has to be a really nasty plan. What if; firstly doing the job and secondly;(secretly, and effectively) accuse the Eldeen Wolves. Eldeen Wolves is fanatical, and has little (nearly none) influence on changing the reality so that won't be an impossible task..
Lurkalot 01-09-06, 02:58 PM	brilliant, I love it !! yes, this is good twist. Aundair sure hates thrane so if it can cause some mayhem over there it's in. If Aundair has a hand in creating a magical disease that looks a lot like lycanthrophy but is far worse and unleashes it among the flamers it does not only deal them a blow but it will start something far more ugly. A new Purge. This would weaken both Thrane and it's enemies, Droaam, The Eldeen Reaches among others. If thrane grows weaker the opportunity for both Karnath and Aundair to take back some land will quickly rip apart a helpless Thrane. Thanks - I live for praise. :) Just had another idea regarding the role of Aundair in the scheme, though. The disease you've outlined is pretty frightening. If I were Aundair, I wouldn't unleash something like that onto the world unless I had the means to stop it. Perhaps they have the master cure, or an Eldritch machine drawing power from the moons to maintain the 'false lycanthropy'. And sign of it spreading into Aundair and they pull the plug. That way you have an instant plot device for the PCs to use to end this. You can also use it to avoid the total destruction of your campaign world if things go wrong, too. Of course, if the device was stolen or somesuch...
Vikjunk 01-09-06, 04:21 PM	You don't need the fang to turn someone into a lycanthropy. You could have the players get a hold of a Potion of Curse of Lycanthropy, spell from Complete Divine, if your DM allows you to tweak the Master Alchemist prc Magic of Faerun so that Artificer can take it. That way you can get a hold of a sixth level potion. Yes, it’s easy to counter act but by the time they think of checking the official he would have must likely have infected someone else those hurting the reputation of the church. And the church is more likely to kill the official then check him for any magical effects on him. All the player would have to do is have one of the players sneak into the church and slip the potion into the officials drink and have some way cast Prestidigitate twice to change the flavor and color back to what it originally was, so that the player would have less of a chance of getting cot. And it would be extremely easy if they group had a Changeling in the group.
rampant 01-09-06, 08:22 PM	Of course tou realise that at least one high ranked member of the Silver flame is actually pushing for Shapeshifter Rights and may be a were-beast himself already if the cardinal answers to someone in that faction he may not be allowed to dispell the curse but be ordered to control and master it to prove that Lycanthropy is not evil, remember eberron alignments aren't fixed even for lycans
Setherial 01-10-06, 08:21 AM	Ok a few new ideas in response : - Aundair is the real antagonist behind this plan, they created both a terrible new form of lycanthrophy and a spell that can counter it. Now this is extremly far fetched and I know many won't like the impact upon the Eberron Setting but what if Aundair manages to spread the disease among the flamers and then sends in a team of wizards equipped with wands of detect new lycan mutant and wands of cure lycan mutant. They help evacuate and heal if needed a buch of highly placed thrane officials as a gesture of good will. Then they forc these officials to the negotiation table. In the end this deal they will cut will place a large part of Thrane or even Thrane as a whole under the rule of Aundair. Yes it might seem like a big change to the setting but actually it creates the kind of friction the setting is all about. Those thranians living under the supression of Aundair as they will se it will revolt. The other nations might not like to see Aundair suddenly expand like this and gain tremendous power, they too will resist. This entire situation will most likely create what is just a temporary imbalance that offers enormous potential for diplomatic and politicaly toned roleplay. In the end, it might even be the party that negotiates a new truth that prevents a war. - second idea in response to what rampant noted: If there is such a thing as pro lycan movement within the hierarchy of the flame, though to me it sounds like somthing that would exist during the purge and not afterwards when lycans are already near extinct, it might be thrane itself that is the antagonist. What if a fanatical cardinal is upset that lycans still exist and that the flame left a job unfinished. Maybe his father was killed by a werewolf or even a shifter and his hate has been building up for years. Anyhow what better way to make the church see that they have a job to finish as to release a new infection within the church. To quote the Moon Dragonshard (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050307a): The full moon has a powerful effect on lycanthropes -- and on Eberron, a shapeshifter may have to contend with the influence of multiple moons on a single night. A creature afflicted with lycanthropy changes involuntarily into animal form whenever one of the twelve moons is full. An afflicted creature can resist the involuntary transformation with a successful Control Shape check (see Monster Manual, page 303); however, for each additional full moon after the first, apply a -2 penalty to the check. This means that an afflicted lycanthrope has to contend with the effects of the curse an average of nineteen nights of the month. Thus, rarely does an afflicted lycanthrope last a week before the curse takes hold and permanently alters her alignment. wow you're a great help man, you really helped build the story here, congrats!
Rechan 01-10-06, 08:44 AM	Where do the PCs fit in all this?
Euangelion 01-10-06, 09:56 AM	- Aundair is the real antagonist behind this plan... There's a goldmine of opportunity with this one statement. Who in Aundair is responsible for the plan? Adal? The LoD cabal/Dust Motes? Someone else in Arcanix? The Queen? Pulling different factions into the plot will deepen it, just as pulling in different factions in Thrane has. One thing to keep in mind when deciding who in Aundair is responsible is that no nation suffered more from the first Lycan outbreak than Aundair. They were the people screaming for help from anyone, and it was the Silver Flame (among others) that responded. Also, most of the people that the Flame persecuted in the Purge were not citizens of what is now Aundair, they were people living in what is now the Eldeen Reaches, and modern Aundarians aren't going to care too much about what they think. That's why the Puritans are so strong in Aundair, because there are many, many people in Aundair who remember and appreciate what the Silver Flame did to save them, and don't really care that much for those that the Church persecuted. The Last War has damaged to a certain extent the reputation of the Church of the Silver Flame as a whole in Aundair, but not so much the Puritan Flamites of their own nation. If anything, the Last War weakened the ties of the Puritans to the theocracy in Flamekeep. Thus a resurgence of the Lycan threat will cause the Puritans to spring into action, and their efforts will be supported by a large number of Aundarians. In fact, such a plot could cause civil war in Aundair should the truth as to who is behind it be revealed.
Lurkalot 01-10-06, 02:00 PM	Ok a few new ideas in response : - Aundair is the real antagonist behind this plan, they created both a terrible new form of lycanthrophy and a spell that can counter it. Now this is extremly far fetched and I know many won't like the impact upon the Eberron Setting but what if Aundair manages to spread the disease among the flamers and then sends in a team of wizards equipped with wands of detect new lycan mutant and wands of cure lycan mutant. They help evacuate and heal if needed a buch of highly placed thrane officials as a gesture of good will. Watch out for that alignment change with infection. What if they don't want a cure? Can you picture a nation of werewolves? Fundamentalist werewolves? What if you get Jaela? She's the voice of the Silver Flame. She might just be capabable of unleashing what that flame guards. And to the person who said that lycanthropy doesn't change alignment in Eberron, yes it does. That's why the Silver Flame were so determined to wipe it out - it overrode people's free will to chose good.
Euangelion 01-10-06, 02:31 PM	I think rampant just meant that lycanthropy doesn't necessarily change your alignment to evil, even if you become a werewolf or wererat.
rampant 01-11-06, 03:59 AM	precisely and the flame was determined to wipe out the lycans for the same reasons Hitler's nazis wanted to off the jews, they told themselves they had a divine mandate
Lurkalot 01-11-06, 02:51 PM	precisely and the flame was determined to wipe out the lycans for the same reasons Hitler's nazis wanted to off the jews, they told themselves they had a divine mandate If you want to play it that way in your campaign, that's fine. But it IS a deviation from the campaign setting. I said this earlier, so I've gone to the trouble of digging out a quote (http%3A//boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4859985&postcount=3024) this time. The Silver Flame deemed Lycanthropes to be a terrible evil because it overrode people's free will. it is an inherent part of the curse of lycanthropy that the victim's alignment shifts to the listed alignment of the creature. ... So in my opinion, any AFFLICTED werewolf is eventually going to become chaotic evil. And in the views of the Keeper of the time (Jaela might say differently), even a shift to a non-evil alignment was still an enforced change that indicated the destruction of the original soul. Now THAT view can be questioned, but that was the basis of it: afflicted lycanthropes ultimately suffer a drastic change of personality as the lycanthropic curse takes hold. So play how you like, but that's where I'm coming from.
demonic_dante 03-15-06, 11:44 PM	What about Jaela, if she became infected and was unable to cure herself (uncurable lycanthropy) the cardinals would surely keep it a secret. They would then hunt down the perpetrators with all there power (read: pay the PC's). The PC's must hunt down the lycans responsible (or allow a child to die) and must try to stifle the "new purge". They could do this by proving lycans aren't, and if they are making it seem like they aren't (saving criminals to save others).