Karnnathi style [Archive] - Wizards Community

Karnnathi style [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CasonSnow
04-13-05, 10:57 AM Greetings all,

I have started to play a Karnnathi warforged who served as a guard at the Rekkenmark Academy. So what I was wondering is what does the military iconography of Karnnath look like?
The nation's flag? For me black and red comes to mind.
Level of ornamentation? I envision brass filagree, in either abstract designs or single words placed on the warforged.

Edit: I forgot to add a question about the symbology of the Rekkenamrk Academy as well?

Thanks.
Zunishahd
04-13-05, 11:42 AM I hope this sort of thing is addressed in the upcoming Five Nations Sourcebook (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/eberron/178680000). Just this morning I was wondering what the heraldry for the Wynarns or the Kingdom of Galifar would be. Animals seem to dominate... at least with the Dragonmarked Houses and Breland (from the Sharn Sourcebook).

But I can't think of an animal that "typifies" the Karrnathi. In the Forgotten Forge, one of the warforged is described as having "the Mark of Karrnath on her brow." I described it as a skull.

I think the Karrnathi military might use a lot of bone/death-related images for their insignia... seeing how much of their army was once comprised of undead. Skulls, stars/crosses/bursts wrought in bones, skeletal hands/fists all spring to mind. Look to Warhammer 40K rank insignia and unit markers for inspiration. Black and red seem appropriate colors, but black and metalics (silver or gold) also look striking.
TranquilDarkness
04-13-05, 12:07 PM The style of armor is described as being heavy and functional - as opposed to Cyres artistic beautifications. I'm using that all the way through; square buildings and simple cut in clothes.
I guess the same will hold true for the flag. At the time Karrnath was founded the use of undead had not started I think, so the warlord founder probably had some weapon or warlike animal as his symbol.

Hmm, maybe a rune representing the letter 'K' in the back ground, red on black. Surrounding the 'K'is a ring of branches and leaves of trees common in Karrnwald. Superimpose a horizontal sword or mace, and you've got a flag.

I believe it was mentioned the book of Five Nations would indeed include the flags. Let's hope so.
CasonSnow
04-13-05, 12:27 PM I think the Karrnathi military might use a lot of bone/death-related images for their insignia... seeing how much of their army was once comprised of undead. Skulls, stars/crosses/bursts wrought in bones, skeletal hands/fists all spring to mind. Look to Warhammer 40K rank insignia and unit markers for inspiration. Black and red seem appropriate colors, but black and metalics (silver or gold) also look striking.
I had the same idea and was drawing heavily on images of the Inquisition, e.g. wreathed skulls, scrolls, lost of fractur text.
Fordel
04-13-05, 12:41 PM I always thought of Karn to be almost Gothic in its apperance.
darkthought
04-13-05, 12:50 PM I always thought of Karn to be almost Gothic in its apperance.

I agree. It makes my heart jump to think of what the temple quarter of the capital looks like, or what all of Atur looks like. *chills*
Mike Czaplinski
04-13-05, 01:14 PM Agreed on the 'Gothic' motif for Karrnath.

I would even go so far as to model their looks after late 19th Century
German/Prussian uniforms. If I had any artistic ability, that is.

The only other point I might make about the original posters game is
that it sure seems to me that Karrnath had very few (if any) Warforged
in the war, and that they are the only major country that still treats
'forged as property, not sentient beings, and that one of the biggest
reasons that the Warforged became popular (ISTR) was due to the
success on the battlefield of Karrnathi undead soldiers, who were as
tireless as the 'forged and were relatively cheaper to make, as Karrnath
had an established tradition of necromancy and the 'raw manpower' to
supply lots of bodies for animation.

In my game, FWIW, I have figured that the Cannith East faction's power
in Karrnath is due largely to their manufacture of conventional weapons
and armor for the Karrnathi undead legions, not from Warforged, and so
there are almost none about.

MikeC
ThatOneMonk
04-13-05, 01:14 PM mmm, I don't know. In the description they had in the eberron book, i imagined the darkness was something that seeped out of the edges, not something that dominated the country side. I kind of imagined their image to be bold, demanding, and proud, like the traditions of the colonial british. Most of the citizens don't like the skeletons and zombie's marching around the borders. They don't complain simply because it keeps them protected.
CasonSnow
04-13-05, 02:51 PM The only other point I might make about the original posters game is
that it sure seems to me that Karrnath had very few (if any) Warforged
in the war, and that they are the only major country that still treats
'forged as property, not sentient beings, and that one of the biggest
reasons that the Warforged became popular (ISTR) was due to the
success on the battlefield of Karrnathi undead soldiers, who were as
tireless as the 'forged and were relatively cheaper to make, as Karrnath
had an established tradition of necromancy and the 'raw manpower' to
supply lots of bodies for animation.

I got that impression too that Karnnath did not have many warforged in their armies but they did have some, and Karrnath appealed to me with their strong martial tradition. The hate of warforged in Karrnath is also a factor in why he left. Also, apparently my DM is making the undead angle in Karrnath a bit less out in the open. Sort of a everyone knows that the Karrnathi use the undead but no one is going to call attention to it.
KP91
04-13-05, 05:38 PM I agree that the flag should probably be black and red. Perhaps the BoV symbol. Although, my other thoughts were maybe a skull.
Vharuck
04-14-05, 08:05 AM If you're going to base it on Gothic style, you need one of these animals:

1) Eagle for majesty and honor
2) Bear for strength
3) Lion for pride and rulership

Personally, I'd go with the eagle since Karrnath does seem close to old Germany. The clothing would be simple in design with dark colors but multi-colored nonetheless. However, useless things like capes and excessive fabric anywhere would be mocked as being "ostentatious" or "pointless."
CasonSnow
04-14-05, 09:15 AM Personally, I'd go with the eagle since Karrnath does seem close to old Germany. The clothing would be simple in design with dark colors but multi-colored nonetheless. However, useless things like capes and excessive fabric anywhere would be mocked as being "ostentatious" or "pointless."
I think i'd go with the eagle too. Thie flag in this image (http://us.games-workshop.com/download/popup.htm?/games/40k/spacemarines/extras/art/images/2b.jpg) fits pretty well what I had in mind for a flag. And here (http://us.games-workshop.com/download/popup.htm?/games/40k/spacemarines/extras/art/images/8b.jpg) for a look at a warforged unit assembled for deployment.

Maybe Keith, or someone working on The Five Kingdoms will chime in at some point and at least let us know if we are on the right track (depending on the restrictions of the NDA).
Isran_Imrador
04-14-05, 09:28 AM Maybe they will! Keith sayed that Cyres flag was basicly green with a Crown in it!
Reprisal
04-14-05, 08:17 PM I went with an Imperial Germany flavour for Karrnath. Their military uniforms are very reminiscent of the Napoleonic Era Prussians, though I went with navy blue, black and silver trim. In my campaign, their flag is a simple one with one blue bar over a black bar and a silver eight pointed star (like a compass) in the center. I also went with the eagle as their national animal.

The players in my group seem to like it for the look of the dress uniforms and such...

- Rep.
aelryinth
04-14-05, 11:11 PM Karrnathi are the 'most civilized' of the five nations, probably meaning the most lawful.

Germany seems a very good role model for that, but you could certainly argue British.

Karrnathi use of Necromancy in their armies didn't start until after the Great War began, when Kaius I the Idiot realized he didn't have enough men to do the job over richer Breland. Vol came in, offered the Brotherhood and the Priests of Vol willing to use Necromancy to bolster troops! Ta da, more armies, cost efficent...if you **** off Thrane, so what? And the loyal sons of Karrn certainly won't mind their corpses walking around after they are dead now, will they? It's for king and country, after all...

Now Karrns have been living with necromancy for ages, due to the Stuff Up North, and all that. So likely their mages focus on it more then any other area, what with the ready manifest zones to help out. But on that massive scale? Not until after the war began.

==+Aelryinth
PoeticJustice
04-14-05, 11:25 PM This is the kind of thing you should ask Keith about. I don't think he'd mind. Anyway, I see Karrnath's symbol as incorporating war. Keep in mind it is the most martial of all nations, the birthplace of Galifer and Karrn the conqueror, and all youths are conscripted for a two year run in the army. I'd incorporate Swords on a field of either red for blood or gold for victory. Or both.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CasonSnow 04-13-05, 10:57 AM	Greetings all, I have started to play a Karnnathi warforged who served as a guard at the Rekkenmark Academy. So what I was wondering is what does the military iconography of Karnnath look like? The nation's flag? For me black and red comes to mind. Level of ornamentation? I envision brass filagree, in either abstract designs or single words placed on the warforged. Edit: I forgot to add a question about the symbology of the Rekkenamrk Academy as well? Thanks.
Zunishahd 04-13-05, 11:42 AM	I hope this sort of thing is addressed in the upcoming Five Nations Sourcebook (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/eberron/178680000). Just this morning I was wondering what the heraldry for the Wynarns or the Kingdom of Galifar would be. Animals seem to dominate... at least with the Dragonmarked Houses and Breland (from the Sharn Sourcebook). But I can't think of an animal that "typifies" the Karrnathi. In the Forgotten Forge, one of the warforged is described as having "the Mark of Karrnath on her brow." I described it as a skull. I think the Karrnathi military might use a lot of bone/death-related images for their insignia... seeing how much of their army was once comprised of undead. Skulls, stars/crosses/bursts wrought in bones, skeletal hands/fists all spring to mind. Look to Warhammer 40K rank insignia and unit markers for inspiration. Black and red seem appropriate colors, but black and metalics (silver or gold) also look striking.
TranquilDarkness 04-13-05, 12:07 PM	The style of armor is described as being heavy and functional - as opposed to Cyres artistic beautifications. I'm using that all the way through; square buildings and simple cut in clothes. I guess the same will hold true for the flag. At the time Karrnath was founded the use of undead had not started I think, so the warlord founder probably had some weapon or warlike animal as his symbol. Hmm, maybe a rune representing the letter 'K' in the back ground, red on black. Surrounding the 'K'is a ring of branches and leaves of trees common in Karrnwald. Superimpose a horizontal sword or mace, and you've got a flag. I believe it was mentioned the book of Five Nations would indeed include the flags. Let's hope so.
CasonSnow 04-13-05, 12:27 PM	I think the Karrnathi military might use a lot of bone/death-related images for their insignia... seeing how much of their army was once comprised of undead. Skulls, stars/crosses/bursts wrought in bones, skeletal hands/fists all spring to mind. Look to Warhammer 40K rank insignia and unit markers for inspiration. Black and red seem appropriate colors, but black and metalics (silver or gold) also look striking. I had the same idea and was drawing heavily on images of the Inquisition, e.g. wreathed skulls, scrolls, lost of fractur text.
Fordel 04-13-05, 12:41 PM	I always thought of Karn to be almost Gothic in its apperance.
darkthought 04-13-05, 12:50 PM	I always thought of Karn to be almost Gothic in its apperance. I agree. It makes my heart jump to think of what the temple quarter of the capital looks like, or what all of Atur looks like. chills
Mike Czaplinski 04-13-05, 01:14 PM	Agreed on the 'Gothic' motif for Karrnath. I would even go so far as to model their looks after late 19th Century German/Prussian uniforms. If I had any artistic ability, that is. The only other point I might make about the original posters game is that it sure seems to me that Karrnath had very few (if any) Warforged in the war, and that they are the only major country that still treats 'forged as property, not sentient beings, and that one of the biggest reasons that the Warforged became popular (ISTR) was due to the success on the battlefield of Karrnathi undead soldiers, who were as tireless as the 'forged and were relatively cheaper to make, as Karrnath had an established tradition of necromancy and the 'raw manpower' to supply lots of bodies for animation. In my game, FWIW, I have figured that the Cannith East faction's power in Karrnath is due largely to their manufacture of conventional weapons and armor for the Karrnathi undead legions, not from Warforged, and so there are almost none about. MikeC
ThatOneMonk 04-13-05, 01:14 PM	mmm, I don't know. In the description they had in the eberron book, i imagined the darkness was something that seeped out of the edges, not something that dominated the country side. I kind of imagined their image to be bold, demanding, and proud, like the traditions of the colonial british. Most of the citizens don't like the skeletons and zombie's marching around the borders. They don't complain simply because it keeps them protected.
CasonSnow 04-13-05, 02:51 PM	The only other point I might make about the original posters game is that it sure seems to me that Karrnath had very few (if any) Warforged in the war, and that they are the only major country that still treats 'forged as property, not sentient beings, and that one of the biggest reasons that the Warforged became popular (ISTR) was due to the success on the battlefield of Karrnathi undead soldiers, who were as tireless as the 'forged and were relatively cheaper to make, as Karrnath had an established tradition of necromancy and the 'raw manpower' to supply lots of bodies for animation. I got that impression too that Karnnath did not have many warforged in their armies but they did have some, and Karrnath appealed to me with their strong martial tradition. The hate of warforged in Karrnath is also a factor in why he left. Also, apparently my DM is making the undead angle in Karrnath a bit less out in the open. Sort of a everyone knows that the Karrnathi use the undead but no one is going to call attention to it.
KP91 04-13-05, 05:38 PM	I agree that the flag should probably be black and red. Perhaps the BoV symbol. Although, my other thoughts were maybe a skull.
Vharuck 04-14-05, 08:05 AM	If you're going to base it on Gothic style, you need one of these animals: 1) Eagle for majesty and honor 2) Bear for strength 3) Lion for pride and rulership Personally, I'd go with the eagle since Karrnath does seem close to old Germany. The clothing would be simple in design with dark colors but multi-colored nonetheless. However, useless things like capes and excessive fabric anywhere would be mocked as being "ostentatious" or "pointless."
CasonSnow 04-14-05, 09:15 AM	Personally, I'd go with the eagle since Karrnath does seem close to old Germany. The clothing would be simple in design with dark colors but multi-colored nonetheless. However, useless things like capes and excessive fabric anywhere would be mocked as being "ostentatious" or "pointless." I think i'd go with the eagle too. Thie flag in this image (http://us.games-workshop.com/download/popup.htm?/games/40k/spacemarines/extras/art/images/2b.jpg) fits pretty well what I had in mind for a flag. And here (http://us.games-workshop.com/download/popup.htm?/games/40k/spacemarines/extras/art/images/8b.jpg) for a look at a warforged unit assembled for deployment. Maybe Keith, or someone working on The Five Kingdoms will chime in at some point and at least let us know if we are on the right track (depending on the restrictions of the NDA).
Isran_Imrador 04-14-05, 09:28 AM	Maybe they will! Keith sayed that Cyres flag was basicly green with a Crown in it!
Reprisal 04-14-05, 08:17 PM	I went with an Imperial Germany flavour for Karrnath. Their military uniforms are very reminiscent of the Napoleonic Era Prussians, though I went with navy blue, black and silver trim. In my campaign, their flag is a simple one with one blue bar over a black bar and a silver eight pointed star (like a compass) in the center. I also went with the eagle as their national animal. The players in my group seem to like it for the look of the dress uniforms and such... - Rep.
aelryinth 04-14-05, 11:11 PM	Karrnathi are the 'most civilized' of the five nations, probably meaning the most lawful. Germany seems a very good role model for that, but you could certainly argue British. Karrnathi use of Necromancy in their armies didn't start until after the Great War began, when Kaius I the Idiot realized he didn't have enough men to do the job over richer Breland. Vol came in, offered the Brotherhood and the Priests of Vol willing to use Necromancy to bolster troops! Ta da, more armies, cost efficent...if you **** off Thrane, so what? And the loyal sons of Karrn certainly won't mind their corpses walking around after they are dead now, will they? It's for king and country, after all... Now Karrns have been living with necromancy for ages, due to the Stuff Up North, and all that. So likely their mages focus on it more then any other area, what with the ready manifest zones to help out. But on that massive scale? Not until after the war began. ==+Aelryinth
PoeticJustice 04-14-05, 11:25 PM	This is the kind of thing you should ask Keith about. I don't think he'd mind. Anyway, I see Karrnath's symbol as incorporating war. Keep in mind it is the most martial of all nations, the birthplace of Galifer and Karrn the conqueror, and all youths are conscripted for a two year run in the army. I'd incorporate Swords on a field of either red for blood or gold for victory. Or both.