Keep on the Borderlands...of the Demon Wastes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Keep on the Borderlands...of the Demon Wastes [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ashrem Bayle
09-19-05, 12:31 PM So I'm looking at doing a total conversion of (B2) Keep on the Borderlands, but in the Eberron setting. I think I'm going to drop it west of Alvirad, in the Eldeen Reaches, at the slopes of the Icehorn Mountains.

It's going to be a Brelish outpost, put into place to scour the surrounding area of resources and as a base of operation for expiditions into the mountains and across into the Wastes.

I'm posting because, for those of you familiar with the adventure, what ideas do you have for incorporating Eberron flavors, creatures, etc.

I'm thinking the Caves of Chaos will be home to several goblinoids and orcs who have fallen under the leadership of an evil force, a demon from the Wastes and the cultists that worship it.
Kolvin
09-19-05, 12:48 PM Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to send low-level PCs near rebellious elements of Daarghun rather than near the clutches of extremely powerful fiends in the Demon Wastes?

The orcs might require some explaining but I wouldn't speak much for the chances of a party of low-level PCs in my game if they ever made a little trip to the Demon Wastes in my game.
Sereno
09-19-05, 12:48 PM Sounds like a good idea. I'd like to see lots more threads about adapting other familiar adventures and stories to Eberron.

Question: why would it be a Brelish outpost up there almost square between the Eldeen Reaches and Aundair?

It's been a long, long, LONG time since I've played that adventure ... but aren't nearly ALL of the challenges based on the ol' "orcs are the bad guys" philosophy?

For an Eberron twist, you could use the Ghaash’kala orcs as the *good guys* manning the now-abandoned-by-Aundair keep, and the Carrion tribes as the bad guys; the Moon Reavers are good ... they worship night hags instead of rakshasa, though (see below).

Most obvious would be to use a low-level member of the Lords or Dust (a rakshasa of some kind) -- or a night hag, if using the Moon Reavers, -- as the head of the cult in the Caves of Chaos rather than just orcs and goblins.

Of course, anyone using the Demon Wastes would EXPECT the BBEG to be a rakshasa, that's why a night hag is a cool twist.

Of course, the PCs wouldn't be actually encountering a night hag! :)
Ashrem Bayle
09-19-05, 12:54 PM Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to send low-level PCs near rebellious elements of Daarghun rather than near the clutches of extremely powerful fiends in the Demon Wastes?

The orcs might require some explaining but I wouldn't speak much for the chances of a party of low-level PCs in my game if they ever made a little trip to the Demon Wastes in my game.

First of all, the Keep will be on the Eldeen Reaches side of the mountians, so while creatuers from the Waste would certainly be seen, it wouldn't be so bad that low level character's couldn't visit. After all, with Eberron being, for the most part, a low-level setting, that area can't have many powerful demons or it would simple be deserted.

As for the orcs.. There are certainly good aligned orcs around, but this particular tribe fell in with the "wrong crowd".
Ashrem Bayle
09-19-05, 01:02 PM Question: why would it be a Brelish outpost up there almost square between the Eldeen Reaches and Aundair?

Why not? Resources.

From what I can tell, both Breland and Aundair spent a lot of time in the Reaches during the war. It would make sense that Breland may still have a functioning outpost there after the signing of the Treaty of Thronehold. And, since the "governement" of the Reaches isn't really active in that area, nobody has pitched a fit about the Brelish forces being there. And besides, the Keep is in a dangerous area. If Breland is willing to expend it's resources fighting back evil creatures who cross the mountians, well, why would the Reacher's argue? Let them kill each other.

It's been a long, long, LONG time since I've played that adventure ... but aren't nearly ALL of the challenges based on the ol' "orcs are the bad guys" philosophy?

There are some, but there are a lot of goblinoids and evil cutlists too. IMC, this particular splinter clan of orcs believe that the people at the Keep are invading their territory and made a "deal with the devil" for aid in getting rid of them. The goblinoids and kobolds are locals who joined up for the same reason as the orcs, and the human cultists worship the demon.

However, I'm tinkering with making the BBEG a dragon. Not sure where I want to go with that train of thought though.
Brastan
09-19-05, 01:23 PM If I remember right there was a trade route through the adventure region and one of the concerns about the Caves was it infringing on the route. You could pull it back way from the Icehorn and put it further in the Reaches. Placing it along the Orien trade route(between Merylsward and Owl's Perch) would be reasonable. That zone was the boarder land for the civilized nations of Khorvaire even before the last war. An Orien trade route also provides an excuse for a higher GP limit so players and dump their plunder without worry. That route is 225 miles, that's a long stretch to guard in a hostile region.

The Beeman or whoever that mad hermit is seems like a good candidate for a druid from anti-civilization sect. I think he had some animal with him so it makes a stronger case for a druid replacement.
Ashrem Bayle
09-19-05, 01:28 PM If I remember right there was a trade route through the adventure region and one of the concerns about the Caves was it infringing on the route. You could pull it back way from the Icehorn and put it further in the Reaches. Placing it along the Orien trade route(between Merylsward and Owl's Perch) would be reasonable. That zone was the boarder land for the civilized nations of Khorvaire even before the last war. An Orien trade route also provides an excuse for a higher GP limit so players and dump their plunder without worry. That route is 225 miles, that's a long stretch to guard in a hostile region.

Hmm...Good idea. I may go with that.

The Beeman or whoever that mad hermit is seems like a good candidate for a druid from anti-civilization sect. I think he had some animal with him so it makes a stronger case for a druid replacement.

Yeah, since the evil cult is recruiting the locals under the banner of "the humans are infringing on our territory", I plan to have the Ashbound druids be a problem for the PCs.
Tom McCarthy
09-19-05, 02:50 PM In Eberron, I might be tempted to have fewer types of humanoids in the Caves. Kobolds, goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, orcs and evil cultists in one spot ? It's a bit much since in Eberron there's geographical divides between them, typically. Also, the goblinoids don't necessarily prey on each other so much in Eberron.

But you can certainly give the place some interesting Eberron specific treasure, like Dhakaani relics, dragonshards, artificer equipment. Undead legions smack of Emerald Claw as an option. Warforged can spice the place up, too. The captives would be a nice place to plant an Eberron stamp.
demonpunk
09-19-05, 03:40 PM I like the idea. I ran a weird high level KotB campaign a while back.

Here's some ideas. The evil clerics can worship the Dragon Below/rakshasa lords. I would keep all of the humanoid types, just give them reasons for being there.
The kobolds worship Khyber as a dragon god, and have a few sorcerors in their ranks.
The goblins are mercenaries from Aundair during the Last War. They got lost in the Eldeen, and it was easy to convert them to the cult.
The orcs are a group from the Carrion Tribes and are the sacred warriors of the Cult of Chaos.
The gnolls could simply be mercenaries from Droaam hired by the cult.
The ogre, minotaur, stirges, and owlbear are just monsters attracted by the evil of the cult.

I would replace the lizardmen with something else, as lizardfolk are usually found in Q'barra. Maybe a tribe of shifters, wary of intruders. The mad hermit would seem an excellent case for a mad Ashbound--the cult isn't a problem, because its divine magic; the problem is the PC wizard...

Throw some house enclaves and secret organizations in the Keep to make it Eberron. A Jorasco hospital provides healing, a Vadalis enclave has magebred animals, etc.

If its a Brelish outpost, that's cool. But many in Aundair still think of the Reaches as their territory. An Aundair spy, working against the PCs, would be interesting.

And remember, "bree-yark" is goblin language for "we surrender"!
im_robertb
09-19-05, 07:35 PM Wow, how about that. A month or so ago, I set about the same project. My plan was to place it in Xen'Drik - not far into Xen'Drik, mind you, but it was the first thing that came to mind for a wild, untamed borderland. Near Darguun/Droaam works as well.

I haven't thought much about completely changing monster types, but I was thinking of making the Keep's Guild be an outpost of one of the Dragonmarked houses (House of Sentinel makes sense), which makes the 'merchant' easily translatable to a possibly dragonmarked, or just favored, member of the house. He could even be the reason the PCs initially come, and after he's rescued, the PCs might decide to stick around (hopefully).

One of the issues I've had to deal with is the relative poverty of some of the weaker monsters in the original KotB, particularly the kobolds. It doesn't quite seem right to keep them down to clubs or something similar.
demmons
09-20-05, 01:59 AM Keep (pardon the pun) the ideas going! I'd like to use B2 in Eberron to introduce my 10 and 6 year old to the game. We've played miniatures, but would really like to get into characters. B2 as I remember it was a perfect launch place for learning the game. I might start em off with the Dark and Stormy Knight free adventure to ease them in on the way to the Keep.

Thanks!

-Dave

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ashrem Bayle 09-19-05, 12:31 PM	So I'm looking at doing a total conversion of (B2) Keep on the Borderlands, but in the Eberron setting. I think I'm going to drop it west of Alvirad, in the Eldeen Reaches, at the slopes of the Icehorn Mountains. It's going to be a Brelish outpost, put into place to scour the surrounding area of resources and as a base of operation for expiditions into the mountains and across into the Wastes. I'm posting because, for those of you familiar with the adventure, what ideas do you have for incorporating Eberron flavors, creatures, etc. I'm thinking the Caves of Chaos will be home to several goblinoids and orcs who have fallen under the leadership of an evil force, a demon from the Wastes and the cultists that worship it.
Kolvin 09-19-05, 12:48 PM	Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to send low-level PCs near rebellious elements of Daarghun rather than near the clutches of extremely powerful fiends in the Demon Wastes? The orcs might require some explaining but I wouldn't speak much for the chances of a party of low-level PCs in my game if they ever made a little trip to the Demon Wastes in my game.
Sereno 09-19-05, 12:48 PM	Sounds like a good idea. I'd like to see lots more threads about adapting other familiar adventures and stories to Eberron. Question: why would it be a Brelish outpost up there almost square between the Eldeen Reaches and Aundair? It's been a long, long, LONG time since I've played that adventure ... but aren't nearly ALL of the challenges based on the ol' "orcs are the bad guys" philosophy? For an Eberron twist, you could use the Ghaash’kala orcs as the good guys manning the now-abandoned-by-Aundair keep, and the Carrion tribes as the bad guys; the Moon Reavers are good ... they worship night hags instead of rakshasa, though (see below). Most obvious would be to use a low-level member of the Lords or Dust (a rakshasa of some kind) -- or a night hag, if using the Moon Reavers, -- as the head of the cult in the Caves of Chaos rather than just orcs and goblins. Of course, anyone using the Demon Wastes would EXPECT the BBEG to be a rakshasa, that's why a night hag is a cool twist. Of course, the PCs wouldn't be actually encountering a night hag! :)
Ashrem Bayle 09-19-05, 12:54 PM	Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to send low-level PCs near rebellious elements of Daarghun rather than near the clutches of extremely powerful fiends in the Demon Wastes? The orcs might require some explaining but I wouldn't speak much for the chances of a party of low-level PCs in my game if they ever made a little trip to the Demon Wastes in my game. First of all, the Keep will be on the Eldeen Reaches side of the mountians, so while creatuers from the Waste would certainly be seen, it wouldn't be so bad that low level character's couldn't visit. After all, with Eberron being, for the most part, a low-level setting, that area can't have many powerful demons or it would simple be deserted. As for the orcs.. There are certainly good aligned orcs around, but this particular tribe fell in with the "wrong crowd".
Ashrem Bayle 09-19-05, 01:02 PM	Question: why would it be a Brelish outpost up there almost square between the Eldeen Reaches and Aundair? Why not? Resources. From what I can tell, both Breland and Aundair spent a lot of time in the Reaches during the war. It would make sense that Breland may still have a functioning outpost there after the signing of the Treaty of Thronehold. And, since the "governement" of the Reaches isn't really active in that area, nobody has pitched a fit about the Brelish forces being there. And besides, the Keep is in a dangerous area. If Breland is willing to expend it's resources fighting back evil creatures who cross the mountians, well, why would the Reacher's argue? Let them kill each other. It's been a long, long, LONG time since I've played that adventure ... but aren't nearly ALL of the challenges based on the ol' "orcs are the bad guys" philosophy? There are some, but there are a lot of goblinoids and evil cutlists too. IMC, this particular splinter clan of orcs believe that the people at the Keep are invading their territory and made a "deal with the devil" for aid in getting rid of them. The goblinoids and kobolds are locals who joined up for the same reason as the orcs, and the human cultists worship the demon. However, I'm tinkering with making the BBEG a dragon. Not sure where I want to go with that train of thought though.
Brastan 09-19-05, 01:23 PM	If I remember right there was a trade route through the adventure region and one of the concerns about the Caves was it infringing on the route. You could pull it back way from the Icehorn and put it further in the Reaches. Placing it along the Orien trade route(between Merylsward and Owl's Perch) would be reasonable. That zone was the boarder land for the civilized nations of Khorvaire even before the last war. An Orien trade route also provides an excuse for a higher GP limit so players and dump their plunder without worry. That route is 225 miles, that's a long stretch to guard in a hostile region. The Beeman or whoever that mad hermit is seems like a good candidate for a druid from anti-civilization sect. I think he had some animal with him so it makes a stronger case for a druid replacement.
Ashrem Bayle 09-19-05, 01:28 PM	If I remember right there was a trade route through the adventure region and one of the concerns about the Caves was it infringing on the route. You could pull it back way from the Icehorn and put it further in the Reaches. Placing it along the Orien trade route(between Merylsward and Owl's Perch) would be reasonable. That zone was the boarder land for the civilized nations of Khorvaire even before the last war. An Orien trade route also provides an excuse for a higher GP limit so players and dump their plunder without worry. That route is 225 miles, that's a long stretch to guard in a hostile region. Hmm...Good idea. I may go with that. The Beeman or whoever that mad hermit is seems like a good candidate for a druid from anti-civilization sect. I think he had some animal with him so it makes a stronger case for a druid replacement. Yeah, since the evil cult is recruiting the locals under the banner of "the humans are infringing on our territory", I plan to have the Ashbound druids be a problem for the PCs.
Tom McCarthy 09-19-05, 02:50 PM	In Eberron, I might be tempted to have fewer types of humanoids in the Caves. Kobolds, goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, orcs and evil cultists in one spot ? It's a bit much since in Eberron there's geographical divides between them, typically. Also, the goblinoids don't necessarily prey on each other so much in Eberron. But you can certainly give the place some interesting Eberron specific treasure, like Dhakaani relics, dragonshards, artificer equipment. Undead legions smack of Emerald Claw as an option. Warforged can spice the place up, too. The captives would be a nice place to plant an Eberron stamp.
demonpunk 09-19-05, 03:40 PM	I like the idea. I ran a weird high level KotB campaign a while back. Here's some ideas. The evil clerics can worship the Dragon Below/rakshasa lords. I would keep all of the humanoid types, just give them reasons for being there. The kobolds worship Khyber as a dragon god, and have a few sorcerors in their ranks. The goblins are mercenaries from Aundair during the Last War. They got lost in the Eldeen, and it was easy to convert them to the cult. The orcs are a group from the Carrion Tribes and are the sacred warriors of the Cult of Chaos. The gnolls could simply be mercenaries from Droaam hired by the cult. The ogre, minotaur, stirges, and owlbear are just monsters attracted by the evil of the cult. I would replace the lizardmen with something else, as lizardfolk are usually found in Q'barra. Maybe a tribe of shifters, wary of intruders. The mad hermit would seem an excellent case for a mad Ashbound--the cult isn't a problem, because its divine magic; the problem is the PC wizard... Throw some house enclaves and secret organizations in the Keep to make it Eberron. A Jorasco hospital provides healing, a Vadalis enclave has magebred animals, etc. If its a Brelish outpost, that's cool. But many in Aundair still think of the Reaches as their territory. An Aundair spy, working against the PCs, would be interesting. And remember, "bree-yark" is goblin language for "we surrender"!
im_robertb 09-19-05, 07:35 PM	Wow, how about that. A month or so ago, I set about the same project. My plan was to place it in Xen'Drik - not far into Xen'Drik, mind you, but it was the first thing that came to mind for a wild, untamed borderland. Near Darguun/Droaam works as well. I haven't thought much about completely changing monster types, but I was thinking of making the Keep's Guild be an outpost of one of the Dragonmarked houses (House of Sentinel makes sense), which makes the 'merchant' easily translatable to a possibly dragonmarked, or just favored, member of the house. He could even be the reason the PCs initially come, and after he's rescued, the PCs might decide to stick around (hopefully). One of the issues I've had to deal with is the relative poverty of some of the weaker monsters in the original KotB, particularly the kobolds. It doesn't quite seem right to keep them down to clubs or something similar.
demmons 09-20-05, 01:59 AM	Keep (pardon the pun) the ideas going! I'd like to use B2 in Eberron to introduce my 10 and 6 year old to the game. We've played miniatures, but would really like to get into characters. B2 as I remember it was a perfect launch place for learning the game. I might start em off with the Dark and Stormy Knight free adventure to ease them in on the way to the Keep. Thanks! -Dave