Keith Baker in Order of the Stick [Archive] - Wizards Community

Keith Baker in Order of the Stick [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Charles Phipps
09-25-07, 06:45 PM Hey, I just popped open my copy of "Start of Darkness" and found out Keith Baker (ours) happens to be one of Xykon's early associates along his long road to evil.

I found that really very funny.

Good for our Origins winner.
Toloran
09-25-07, 07:03 PM From: http://www.giantitp.com/articles/gk7uKJeF296jRcx1NJw.html

Keith Baker is a talented game designer and novelist who has written work for Atlas Games, Goodman Games, Green Ronin Games, and Wizards of the Coast. His card game, Gloom, won the 2005 Origins Award for Traditional Game of the Year. He also designed some campaign setting or something. At long last, his will has been crushed beneath the iron heel of his archnemesis, Rich Burlew, and he has been chained to a desk somewhere in Colorado to churn out fodder for this website. His bizarre cow fixation is frequently on display at his personal website, www.bossythecow.com.

Rich Burlew can't draw anything but crappy stick figures.

They have bit of a... history together.
Charles Phipps
09-25-07, 07:33 PM ....Okay.

That's a new one to me.
Label
09-25-07, 08:54 PM Yeah and Keith has Rich on his website too
http://www.bossythecow.com/genconphoto05-24.htm
Rechan
09-25-07, 09:49 PM Is this online? o.o
Charles Phipps
09-25-07, 10:15 PM No, I don't think that Rich Burlew appreciates reproducing the only thing he actually sells for money either.
Bluebrush
09-26-07, 03:30 AM It's a book of prequel strips, telling the tale of the rise of Xykon, Redcloak and the Monster in the Dark.

Go buy it, it's awesome.
ZeroSD
09-26-07, 03:55 AM It is dark.

Good, but some parts are really really dark.
DBlizzard
09-26-07, 01:47 PM It is dark.

Good, but some parts are really really dark.That's just the way the monster likes it.
Garden_State_Gamer
09-26-07, 03:17 PM Ah, those crazy kids.

Their friendly (?) rivalry only enhances the entertainment value of their work.
eehamburg
09-26-07, 05:28 PM Ah, those crazy kids.

Their friendly (?) rivalry only enhances the entertainment value of their work.
So ... maybe it isn't just a friendly rivalry. Maybe ... just maybe.. it is a planned conspiracy to make their works worth more? huh? hmm? Anyone? :plotting: :evillaugh :lightbulb :devil: :schemes: :bow: :hides: :incog: :doh: :thinks:
Jürgen Hubert
09-27-07, 07:42 AM From: http://www.giantitp.com/articles/gk7uKJeF296jRcx1NJw.html

They have bit of a... history together.

To be more specific, I think they were both finalists for the WotC Setting Search of 2002.

And we all know who won that one, don't we? ;)
eehamburg
09-27-07, 10:15 AM To be more specific, I think they were both finalists for the WotC Setting Search of 2002.

And we all know who won that one, don't we? ;)

Yes we do ... and thus the other was sadly ... the loser ... and thus the rivalry grew
JayDubya
09-30-07, 01:37 AM It would be nice to know what the other two finalists had in mind. I'm so curious.
doctorhook
09-30-07, 06:47 PM Yes we do ... and thus the other was sadly ... the loser ... and thus the rivalry grew

Isn't Rich Burlew's setting one of the other two final settings that WotC kept, aside from Eberron?

Maybe we can count on seeing his setting within the next year or two as a new "vehicle" for 4E. (Similar to how Eberron was the "vehicle" for 3.5E.)
Altar_Boy
09-30-07, 09:49 PM It would be nice to know what the other two finalists had in mind. I'm so curious.

I bet that his world for OOTS is what he submitted. Ninjas, anachronistic cities, and huge Dungeons in the same setting. Who could resist?

But yeah, they're doing themselves a big favour by playing it up. Keep it up.
Bluebrush
10-01-07, 03:12 AM I think I remember hearing it was actually some kind of aquatic world.

But either way, we probably won't find out, since WotC bought all three finalists (They don't just give away novelty oversized cheques) and Rich is probably under a NDA.
eehamburg
10-01-07, 10:22 AM I bet that his world for OOTS is what he submitted. Ninjas, anachronistic cities, and huge Dungeons in the same setting. Who could resist?

All settings that were submitted became the property of WotC. Therefore, the OOTS setting is not the one that was submitted because then Burlew would be in violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement. And since WotC doesn't seem to want use any of the other settings, it is unlikely that we will ever see what the other settings were like.
ZeroSD
10-02-07, 07:32 AM Plus, I think the OotS world is too parody-ish for them.

Pit of unupdated 2ed monsters? :D
larry_the_titan
10-02-07, 08:34 AM Now imagine if the comic updates again. There will now be a Pit on unupdated monsters from 3.X ed :D . I can see it now. Crystal dragons, Gnomes and a few different slimes all huddled in the corner discussing the hey days.
Salathiel
10-02-07, 08:41 PM All settings that were submitted became the property of WotC. Therefore, the OOTS setting is not the one that was submitted because then Burlew would be in violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement. And since WotC doesn't seem to want use any of the other settings, it is unlikely that we will ever see what the other settings were like.

This is absolutely correct, eehamburg.

You can read about it in the Foul Knave's own words here (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq9) and here (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq26). Because of the NDA, I would be extremely skeptical about any rumors that make any kind of claim about what was in those other two proposals.
Garden_State_Gamer
10-03-07, 09:09 AM As the surveillance photos posted in the above links clearly show, Mr. Baker had blundered too far into the truth. He had to be silenced somehow. You'll notice a strange whirring noise at "Mr. Baker's" recent appearances. I believe you all know what this means.

What is that truth you might ask? Is it perhaps, that Mr. Burlew's "illness" is in fact a secret WotC cover up for him to R&D his setting to unleash upon an unsuspecting populous come May 2008?

In lieu of such a catostrophic event, I will be selling triangular repellant helmets made of a special repellant material, see working prototype below

http://www.thegayblackjew.com/images/Tin_foil_hat.jpg

Remember, it's not paranoia if they really are out to get you. Have a nice day :D
Wih
10-03-07, 06:50 PM Ever since the 2002 competition, Rich and Keith have had a huge rivalry, though it's pretty much tongue in cheek; they've worked together in a few different things before (see The Gleaner on Rich's website, for instance). Neither of them are quite serious enough not to poke fun at it (more Rich than Keither tho).

Rich has stated many times that the world he made was completely new an had never and will never be used (except by WotC) - part of the deal was that WotC bought the setting - completely and utterly.

Personally, I'm more of a fan of Giant in the Playground than Ebberon (not saying that Ebberon isn't good, mind you), so I'm hoping they use Rich's setting in 4th Ed. They've got Rich to do books before, such as Dungeonscape, Monster Manual III and ironically even the Explorer's Handbook.
ArcTan
10-08-07, 03:54 AM I bet that his world for OOTS is what he submitted. Ninjas, anachronistic cities, and huge Dungeons in the same setting. Who could resist?

Unlikely, since that would be a direct violation of the WotC NDA about the settings in the Setting Search. Notice that the "world" of OotS didn't really become a full-fledged "world" (rather than a cardboard-thin parody of the standard D&D dungeon crawl) until it was already pretty popular and well-established -- and therefore I doubt Rich ever purposely intended OotS to be an adaptation of any particular campaign world, his or anyone else's, rather than simply letting references adapt and evolve on their own. (I mean, one of the actual big world elements of OotS, the quasi-modern city of Cliffport, is a setup for a joke about Eberron.)

Also, everyone totally knows that Rich and Keith are buddies in real life. There's just a lot of entertainment value and publicity to be gotten from playing up what Rich himself describes as a ludicrous over-the-top Dr. Doom-like "hatred" of Keith Baker (and his Fantastic Four).

The funny thing is that I think Order of the Stick at this point actually has way more universal popularity in the D&D community than Eberron has. Hell, it may even be worth more *money* than Eberron is -- since Rich owns all the IP for OotS and sells merchandise and books for it that he pockets the profits from, while Keith is still a freelancer who negotiates with WotC for each contract to publish each Eberron book he works on. (I'm just guessing here, though, and don't know enough about the way freelance RPG publishing or OotS work to say for sure. I do know, though, that Rich has mentioned at fan events that he certainly no longer *needs* to ever work on RPG books again in order to earn a living, thanks to OotS, and does what RPG work he still does for the love more than anything else.)
ArcTan
10-08-07, 03:59 AM Ever since the 2002 competition, Rich and Keith have had a huge rivalry, though it's pretty much tongue in cheek; they've worked together in a few different things before (see The Gleaner on Rich's website, for instance). Neither of them are quite serious enough not to poke fun at it (more Rich than Keither tho).

Rich has stated many times that the world he made was completely new an had never and will never be used (except by WotC) - part of the deal was that WotC bought the setting - completely and utterly.

Personally, I'm more of a fan of Giant in the Playground than Ebberon (not saying that Ebberon isn't good, mind you), so I'm hoping they use Rich's setting in 4th Ed. They've got Rich to do books before, such as Dungeonscape, Monster Manual III and ironically even the Explorer's Handbook.

While Rich is certainly capable of writing in a completely serious tone -- just as he's certainly capable of drawing non-stick-figures -- his ability to poke tongue-in-cheek fun at the unrealistic contrivances of the world of D&D has become just as much a signature of his as the stick figures. At least, the sense I got from both of the WotC supplements I've read that he worked on is that they are written from a self-aware perspective of how over-the-top and wacky the fundamental concepts of D&D are (all these huge damn ruins and constant opportunities to get captured and *just barely* escape from certain death, again and again and again -- all these huge dungeons filled with horrifying monsters that are just kinda *there*) and hence tend to have knowing winks to the D&D community. The idea of a "Class-in-a-Box" containing useful magic items for parties that happen not to have a Rogue or a Cleric is totally classic Burlew, for instance.

I really think D&D could use a setting or line of books that didn't take itself *quite* so seriously -- while cartoonish D&D humor can certainly go too far, and frequently has in the murky past of TSR, I really disagree that the D&D books are made better by constantly taking a dry, leaden, serious tone that refuses to acknowledge the fourth wall at all. A setting written with an OotS-like *tone* would do pretty well, I think, even if it had nothing to do with OotS, and I wouldn't mind buying such a thing in 4e. (After all, Hackmaster basically did this and achieved a surprising degree of success.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Charles Phipps 09-25-07, 06:45 PM	Hey, I just popped open my copy of "Start of Darkness" and found out Keith Baker (ours) happens to be one of Xykon's early associates along his long road to evil. I found that really very funny. Good for our Origins winner.
Toloran 09-25-07, 07:03 PM	From: http://www.giantitp.com/articles/gk7uKJeF296jRcx1NJw.html Keith Baker is a talented game designer and novelist who has written work for Atlas Games, Goodman Games, Green Ronin Games, and Wizards of the Coast. His card game, Gloom, won the 2005 Origins Award for Traditional Game of the Year. He also designed some campaign setting or something. At long last, his will has been crushed beneath the iron heel of his archnemesis, Rich Burlew, and he has been chained to a desk somewhere in Colorado to churn out fodder for this website. His bizarre cow fixation is frequently on display at his personal website, www.bossythecow.com. Rich Burlew can't draw anything but crappy stick figures. They have bit of a... history together.
Charles Phipps 09-25-07, 07:33 PM	....Okay. That's a new one to me.
Label 09-25-07, 08:54 PM	Yeah and Keith has Rich on his website too http://www.bossythecow.com/genconphoto05-24.htm
Rechan 09-25-07, 09:49 PM	Is this online? o.o
Charles Phipps 09-25-07, 10:15 PM	No, I don't think that Rich Burlew appreciates reproducing the only thing he actually sells for money either.
Bluebrush 09-26-07, 03:30 AM	It's a book of prequel strips, telling the tale of the rise of Xykon, Redcloak and the Monster in the Dark. Go buy it, it's awesome.
ZeroSD 09-26-07, 03:55 AM	It is dark. Good, but some parts are really really dark.
DBlizzard 09-26-07, 01:47 PM	It is dark. Good, but some parts are really really dark.That's just the way the monster likes it.
Garden_State_Gamer 09-26-07, 03:17 PM	Ah, those crazy kids. Their friendly (?) rivalry only enhances the entertainment value of their work.
eehamburg 09-26-07, 05:28 PM	Ah, those crazy kids. Their friendly (?) rivalry only enhances the entertainment value of their work. So ... maybe it isn't just a friendly rivalry. Maybe ... just maybe.. it is a planned conspiracy to make their works worth more? huh? hmm? Anyone? :plotting: :evillaugh :lightbulb :devil: :schemes: :bow: :hides: :incog: :doh: :thinks:
Jürgen Hubert 09-27-07, 07:42 AM	From: http://www.giantitp.com/articles/gk7uKJeF296jRcx1NJw.html They have bit of a... history together. To be more specific, I think they were both finalists for the WotC Setting Search of 2002. And we all know who won that one, don't we? ;)
eehamburg 09-27-07, 10:15 AM	To be more specific, I think they were both finalists for the WotC Setting Search of 2002. And we all know who won that one, don't we? ;) Yes we do ... and thus the other was sadly ... the loser ... and thus the rivalry grew
JayDubya 09-30-07, 01:37 AM	It would be nice to know what the other two finalists had in mind. I'm so curious.
doctorhook 09-30-07, 06:47 PM	Yes we do ... and thus the other was sadly ... the loser ... and thus the rivalry grew Isn't Rich Burlew's setting one of the other two final settings that WotC kept, aside from Eberron? Maybe we can count on seeing his setting within the next year or two as a new "vehicle" for 4E. (Similar to how Eberron was the "vehicle" for 3.5E.)
Altar_Boy 09-30-07, 09:49 PM	It would be nice to know what the other two finalists had in mind. I'm so curious. I bet that his world for OOTS is what he submitted. Ninjas, anachronistic cities, and huge Dungeons in the same setting. Who could resist? But yeah, they're doing themselves a big favour by playing it up. Keep it up.
Bluebrush 10-01-07, 03:12 AM	I think I remember hearing it was actually some kind of aquatic world. But either way, we probably won't find out, since WotC bought all three finalists (They don't just give away novelty oversized cheques) and Rich is probably under a NDA.
eehamburg 10-01-07, 10:22 AM	I bet that his world for OOTS is what he submitted. Ninjas, anachronistic cities, and huge Dungeons in the same setting. Who could resist? All settings that were submitted became the property of WotC. Therefore, the OOTS setting is not the one that was submitted because then Burlew would be in violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement. And since WotC doesn't seem to want use any of the other settings, it is unlikely that we will ever see what the other settings were like.
ZeroSD 10-02-07, 07:32 AM	Plus, I think the OotS world is too parody-ish for them. Pit of unupdated 2ed monsters? :D
larry_the_titan 10-02-07, 08:34 AM	Now imagine if the comic updates again. There will now be a Pit on unupdated monsters from 3.X ed :D . I can see it now. Crystal dragons, Gnomes and a few different slimes all huddled in the corner discussing the hey days.
Salathiel 10-02-07, 08:41 PM	All settings that were submitted became the property of WotC. Therefore, the OOTS setting is not the one that was submitted because then Burlew would be in violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement. And since WotC doesn't seem to want use any of the other settings, it is unlikely that we will ever see what the other settings were like. This is absolutely correct, eehamburg. You can read about it in the Foul Knave's own words here (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq9) and here (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq26). Because of the NDA, I would be extremely skeptical about any rumors that make any kind of claim about what was in those other two proposals.
Garden_State_Gamer 10-03-07, 09:09 AM	As the surveillance photos posted in the above links clearly show, Mr. Baker had blundered too far into the truth. He had to be silenced somehow. You'll notice a strange whirring noise at "Mr. Baker's" recent appearances. I believe you all know what this means. What is that truth you might ask? Is it perhaps, that Mr. Burlew's "illness" is in fact a secret WotC cover up for him to R&D his setting to unleash upon an unsuspecting populous come May 2008? In lieu of such a catostrophic event, I will be selling triangular repellant helmets made of a special repellant material, see working prototype below http://www.thegayblackjew.com/images/Tin_foil_hat.jpg Remember, it's not paranoia if they really are out to get you. Have a nice day :D
Wih 10-03-07, 06:50 PM	Ever since the 2002 competition, Rich and Keith have had a huge rivalry, though it's pretty much tongue in cheek; they've worked together in a few different things before (see The Gleaner on Rich's website, for instance). Neither of them are quite serious enough not to poke fun at it (more Rich than Keither tho). Rich has stated many times that the world he made was completely new an had never and will never be used (except by WotC) - part of the deal was that WotC bought the setting - completely and utterly. Personally, I'm more of a fan of Giant in the Playground than Ebberon (not saying that Ebberon isn't good, mind you), so I'm hoping they use Rich's setting in 4th Ed. They've got Rich to do books before, such as Dungeonscape, Monster Manual III and ironically even the Explorer's Handbook.
ArcTan 10-08-07, 03:54 AM	I bet that his world for OOTS is what he submitted. Ninjas, anachronistic cities, and huge Dungeons in the same setting. Who could resist? Unlikely, since that would be a direct violation of the WotC NDA about the settings in the Setting Search. Notice that the "world" of OotS didn't really become a full-fledged "world" (rather than a cardboard-thin parody of the standard D&D dungeon crawl) until it was already pretty popular and well-established -- and therefore I doubt Rich ever purposely intended OotS to be an adaptation of any particular campaign world, his or anyone else's, rather than simply letting references adapt and evolve on their own. (I mean, one of the actual big world elements of OotS, the quasi-modern city of Cliffport, is a setup for a joke about Eberron.) Also, everyone totally knows that Rich and Keith are buddies in real life. There's just a lot of entertainment value and publicity to be gotten from playing up what Rich himself describes as a ludicrous over-the-top Dr. Doom-like "hatred" of Keith Baker (and his Fantastic Four). The funny thing is that I think Order of the Stick at this point actually has way more universal popularity in the D&D community than Eberron has. Hell, it may even be worth more money than Eberron is -- since Rich owns all the IP for OotS and sells merchandise and books for it that he pockets the profits from, while Keith is still a freelancer who negotiates with WotC for each contract to publish each Eberron book he works on. (I'm just guessing here, though, and don't know enough about the way freelance RPG publishing or OotS work to say for sure. I do know, though, that Rich has mentioned at fan events that he certainly no longer needs to ever work on RPG books again in order to earn a living, thanks to OotS, and does what RPG work he still does for the love more than anything else.)
ArcTan 10-08-07, 03:59 AM	Ever since the 2002 competition, Rich and Keith have had a huge rivalry, though it's pretty much tongue in cheek; they've worked together in a few different things before (see The Gleaner on Rich's website, for instance). Neither of them are quite serious enough not to poke fun at it (more Rich than Keither tho). Rich has stated many times that the world he made was completely new an had never and will never be used (except by WotC) - part of the deal was that WotC bought the setting - completely and utterly. Personally, I'm more of a fan of Giant in the Playground than Ebberon (not saying that Ebberon isn't good, mind you), so I'm hoping they use Rich's setting in 4th Ed. They've got Rich to do books before, such as Dungeonscape, Monster Manual III and ironically even the Explorer's Handbook. While Rich is certainly capable of writing in a completely serious tone -- just as he's certainly capable of drawing non-stick-figures -- his ability to poke tongue-in-cheek fun at the unrealistic contrivances of the world of D&D has become just as much a signature of his as the stick figures. At least, the sense I got from both of the WotC supplements I've read that he worked on is that they are written from a self-aware perspective of how over-the-top and wacky the fundamental concepts of D&D are (all these huge damn ruins and constant opportunities to get captured and just barely escape from certain death, again and again and again -- all these huge dungeons filled with horrifying monsters that are just kinda there) and hence tend to have knowing winks to the D&D community. The idea of a "Class-in-a-Box" containing useful magic items for parties that happen not to have a Rogue or a Cleric is totally classic Burlew, for instance. I really think D&D could use a setting or line of books that didn't take itself quite so seriously -- while cartoonish D&D humor can certainly go too far, and frequently has in the murky past of TSR, I really disagree that the D&D books are made better by constantly taking a dry, leaden, serious tone that refuses to acknowledge the fourth wall at all. A setting written with an OotS-like tone would do pretty well, I think, even if it had nothing to do with OotS, and I wouldn't mind buying such a thing in 4e. (After all, Hackmaster basically did this and achieved a surprising degree of success.)