Khoravar Cant [Archive] - Wizards Community

Khoravar Cant [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Peter the Hegemon
12-01-04, 05:49 PM I'm possibly going to be playing a changeling bard in a play-by-post campaign, and one of the things I'd like to give him Khoravar Cant as one of his languages so that he can blend in with the half-elves of Khorvaire. :)

However, do you think that someone can know how to speak it from just knowing Common and Elven? Keith Baker's famed Half-Elves of Khorvaire article only gave the DCs for listening to Khoravar but no guidelines if someone wanted to emulate it.

So, should I be able to spend a skill point to learn Khoravar Cant?
Edymnion
12-01-04, 05:53 PM Yeah, I'd say you have to buy it just like any other language.
While the words may be the same as some elvish and common words, the entire meaning of things has gotten changed around.

Think of it being sort of like Ebonics.
"Yo yo, was up in the hood wit muh dog?"

Now, if you weren't used to that sort of talk, I just said something about a toy made by Duncan, asked about something in the hood of a coat, and there was something about a canine involved.

The literal meaning of the words are not the same as the connotation of "Hello, how are things with you?"
Khovare Cant would be even more differant, IMO.
Of course, you'd have to get a half-elf to teach it to you. No suddenly figuring it out in the middle of nowhere, somebody has to show you how its done.
Splendide
12-01-04, 05:55 PM I would expect that Khoravar Cant is a bit like Singlish (Singapore English) in that its not codified. Maybe there would be some mixed grammatical structures (Elven words in Common sentence structure), with a bit of people using whichever word rolls off the tongue, or expresses the concept more clearly.

If you had Elven and Common as languages already, I'd probably just make it a roleplaying thing where you can learn it quickly through exposure. A skill point I would reckon would sort it right out though.

As a bard though, I would argue that you can just do it. Mucking about with words is what they do.
okaynowa
12-02-04, 09:16 AM I'd agree that spending a skill point should let you get by just fine in Khoravar. Without that skill point you could understand it, but your attempted replies would be a confusing mishmash. An actual Khorvaire half-elf I'd probably give it to for free, but a changeling bard has to approach it from the outside (at least at first...)

I'd view Khoravar kind of like Liberian English. Technically, it's English, and if the speaker is going slowly enough, a Yank (like me) can probably understand it. But to actually answer back in it, I'd have to have a lot more knowledge about the peculiar word choices and "unwritten" variant grammar rules. It'd take some time and effort.

Oddly enough, I'd already decided that in my game Khoravar is as Splendide described it-- Elven vocabulary and Common syntax/grammar. I'm an amateur linguist, and love theorizing about junk like this :)
Gurv
12-02-04, 10:43 AM I'd view Khoravar kind of like Liberian English. Technically, it's English, and if the speaker is going slowly enough, a Yank (like me) can probably understand it. But to actually answer back in it, I'd have to have a lot more knowledge about the peculiar word choices and "unwritten" variant grammar rules. It'd take some time and effort.
Thats how I see it. The variations in a single language are incredible. After reading the threads on accents, I did a search online and found a ton of recordings where hundreds of people, many who have English as a second language, say the same thing. It is shocking how different, even within America, English can sound. And I picked out my local accent instantly (Boston area).

There was a movie I saw recently which was in French, so I had the subtitles on. But there was a pair of English characters in the movie who would speak to one another, so the movie itself had translation subtitles, presumably for the French viewers. I have no idea where these Englishmen were from, but I was glad for the subtitles; I had to read and listen at the same time before I could understand what they were saying.
Joni-san
12-02-04, 02:47 PM Now being bilingual and comming from an area where mixing Finnish and Swedish happens on a regular basis*, my opinion would be to place the Khoravar Cant in a similar position. Basicaly one uses words from the other if it seems apropriate or if one doesn't remember it one language (This can speed up communication a bit and give a more precise meaning on occasion) and mix in some local and/or cultural stuff or grammar from the other language.

One could thus mix in some Khoravar specific proverbs and jokes and other things for extra Eberron flavor.

Perhaps one could also use Yiddish as an example (If one is allowed to simplify a complex and interesting language like Yiddish) wich IIRC is a blend of Hebrew, German and Polish. It has it's own rules for grammar and it's filled with inside jokes, proverbs and I've heard that it is very good at describing feelings.

*(I've heard of stories where out-of-towners don't understand what local people are saying becuase they mix the two so much :D )
Magagumo
12-02-04, 03:51 PM There's also always the "pikeys" from the movie "Snatch."

It's like the singing of the angels.. ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Peter the Hegemon 12-01-04, 05:49 PM	I'm possibly going to be playing a changeling bard in a play-by-post campaign, and one of the things I'd like to give him Khoravar Cant as one of his languages so that he can blend in with the half-elves of Khorvaire. :) However, do you think that someone can know how to speak it from just knowing Common and Elven? Keith Baker's famed Half-Elves of Khorvaire article only gave the DCs for listening to Khoravar but no guidelines if someone wanted to emulate it. So, should I be able to spend a skill point to learn Khoravar Cant?
Edymnion 12-01-04, 05:53 PM	Yeah, I'd say you have to buy it just like any other language. While the words may be the same as some elvish and common words, the entire meaning of things has gotten changed around. Think of it being sort of like Ebonics. "Yo yo, was up in the hood wit muh dog?" Now, if you weren't used to that sort of talk, I just said something about a toy made by Duncan, asked about something in the hood of a coat, and there was something about a canine involved. The literal meaning of the words are not the same as the connotation of "Hello, how are things with you?" Khovare Cant would be even more differant, IMO. Of course, you'd have to get a half-elf to teach it to you. No suddenly figuring it out in the middle of nowhere, somebody has to show you how its done.
Splendide 12-01-04, 05:55 PM	I would expect that Khoravar Cant is a bit like Singlish (Singapore English) in that its not codified. Maybe there would be some mixed grammatical structures (Elven words in Common sentence structure), with a bit of people using whichever word rolls off the tongue, or expresses the concept more clearly. If you had Elven and Common as languages already, I'd probably just make it a roleplaying thing where you can learn it quickly through exposure. A skill point I would reckon would sort it right out though. As a bard though, I would argue that you can just do it. Mucking about with words is what they do.
okaynowa 12-02-04, 09:16 AM	I'd agree that spending a skill point should let you get by just fine in Khoravar. Without that skill point you could understand it, but your attempted replies would be a confusing mishmash. An actual Khorvaire half-elf I'd probably give it to for free, but a changeling bard has to approach it from the outside (at least at first...) I'd view Khoravar kind of like Liberian English. Technically, it's English, and if the speaker is going slowly enough, a Yank (like me) can probably understand it. But to actually answer back in it, I'd have to have a lot more knowledge about the peculiar word choices and "unwritten" variant grammar rules. It'd take some time and effort. Oddly enough, I'd already decided that in my game Khoravar is as Splendide described it-- Elven vocabulary and Common syntax/grammar. I'm an amateur linguist, and love theorizing about junk like this :)
Gurv 12-02-04, 10:43 AM	I'd view Khoravar kind of like Liberian English. Technically, it's English, and if the speaker is going slowly enough, a Yank (like me) can probably understand it. But to actually answer back in it, I'd have to have a lot more knowledge about the peculiar word choices and "unwritten" variant grammar rules. It'd take some time and effort. Thats how I see it. The variations in a single language are incredible. After reading the threads on accents, I did a search online and found a ton of recordings where hundreds of people, many who have English as a second language, say the same thing. It is shocking how different, even within America, English can sound. And I picked out my local accent instantly (Boston area). There was a movie I saw recently which was in French, so I had the subtitles on. But there was a pair of English characters in the movie who would speak to one another, so the movie itself had translation subtitles, presumably for the French viewers. I have no idea where these Englishmen were from, but I was glad for the subtitles; I had to read and listen at the same time before I could understand what they were saying.
Joni-san 12-02-04, 02:47 PM	Now being bilingual and comming from an area where mixing Finnish and Swedish happens on a regular basis, my opinion would be to place the Khoravar Cant in a similar position. Basicaly one uses words from the other if it seems apropriate or if one doesn't remember it one language (This can speed up communication a bit and give a more precise meaning on occasion) and mix in some local and/or cultural stuff or grammar from the other language. One could thus mix in some Khoravar specific proverbs and jokes and other things for extra Eberron flavor. Perhaps one could also use Yiddish as an example (If one is allowed to simplify a complex and interesting language like Yiddish) wich IIRC is a blend of Hebrew, German and Polish. It has it's own rules for grammar and it's filled with inside jokes, proverbs and I've heard that it is very good at describing feelings. (I've heard of stories where out-of-towners don't understand what local people are saying becuase they mix the two so much :D )
Magagumo 12-02-04, 03:51 PM	There's also always the "pikeys" from the movie "Snatch." It's like the singing of the angels.. ;)