Khorvese alphabet [Archive] - Wizards Community

Khorvese alphabet [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ChrisTheS
07-22-04, 03:07 AM http://www.dromaskald.org/lingua/dnd/eberron/khorvese.jpg

Here is a little something I cooked up today, as my impressions of what written Eberronian Common might look like. However, there are only 4 images in the entire ECS book that contain any sort of script (one of which is Draconic, and another of which looks like it's just random scribbles anyway), not counting the planar runes or the dragonmarks. So it isn't really a precise transcription: I just used what distinguishable symbols I could, assigned them randomly to letters, and invented others that were similar in feel (and, coincidentally, resembled their Roman or Greek counterparts in some obscure way).

So... what does anyone think of it? Is there anything major that needs changing (letters too hard to distinguish, look silly, bear no resemblance whatsoever to what you would expect them to look like, etc)?

It's not a patch on Daedric, I know that much... I'm not overly keen on some of the letters either. But I'd like to know what others think before I start tinkering with it again.
EscherEnigma
07-22-04, 03:18 AM Looks good to me. I think I'll save that image so that I can make runic looking things in the future, I have no talent for making up symbols.

Question though: whats the difference in the line above the english alphabet and the one below? The one above looks more refined (as if you had made a font out of it) and the one below looks more scribbled (and bears at least a more superficial resemblance to greek... I think). Is there any difference other than stages that you were working on it?
ChrisTheS
07-22-04, 03:47 AM The upper one is a font (I developed the alphabet in High-Logic's Font Creator Program). The lower one is an attempt to reverse-engineer that font into non-calligraphed handwriting. That will be especially necessary later when I try to make a Korranberg typeface (like Times New Roman, only for these symbols).

If you want the font file, I'll post it as soon as I know whether I'm changing parts of it or not.
NOOC PHD
07-22-04, 04:19 AM I would love this in a .ttf. I just put together my campaign primer and borrowed the old Tsolyani script to give an arcane feel in places.

This would be just fabulous to have. Very nice work.:tiphat:
Bill Muench
07-22-04, 09:20 AM It looks really great. I'd love to get my hands on a copy. Thanks!
Greyson
07-22-04, 11:45 AM Originally posted by Bill Muench
It looks really great. I'd love to get my hands on a copy. Thanks! Ditto! Great job, Chris. That is a very creative effort, and the script looks clean and tight.

A True Type Font would be awesome, as expressed above. But the images in your link are a great resource to start with.
Kryptonian Scion
07-22-04, 12:12 PM I also think it would be most keen to have this font available.
ENHenry
07-22-04, 03:15 PM Add another appreciation for the font here. If you create a TTF, I'd also be interested.
ChrisTheS
07-22-04, 06:36 PM Well... more than 5 in favor, and none opposed, yet. I suppose that's good enough. :)

Very well... just give me a little while to come up with numerals and punctuation marks, and then I'll post the font file.

Thanks for the response, everyone! :)
MrFilthyIke
07-22-04, 07:38 PM No, thank YOU... :)
Cantuse
07-22-04, 08:37 PM This is some good stuff, great to use under headings in english for flavor. Or on hand made 'treasure map' style maps. Similar to the way the dwarven and daedric shrines are noted on maps in Morrowind, for those who are familiar.

I'm definately interested in getting that font as well!
ChrisTheS
07-22-04, 09:38 PM Well, you asked, and so here it is:

The Khorvese Font (http://www.dromaskald.org/lingua/dnd/eberron/khorvese_reg.zip)

Enjoy :)
Cantuse
07-22-04, 09:41 PM You are so cool, and when I say cool, I mean totally sweet.

:cool:
Greyson
07-22-04, 09:48 PM Originally posted by Cantuse
You are so cool, and when I say cool, I mean totally sweet. What he said!

Fantastic job, Chris. You're on the edge, man. The TTF looks great and I already put it to use for an adventure I am running tomorrow.

Thanks for the work on this.
EvilDrPuma
07-22-04, 10:20 PM Man, you will be remembered in my will.

(Disclaimer: The estate isn't really coming together the way I had originally hoped. You'll probably be getting Pez.)
Harmon
07-23-04, 02:30 PM Thats fantastic man seriously thank you, you rock...I love you.
Pallis
07-23-04, 03:51 PM Nice work Chris! If you're ok with this, I'll have a word with the KC team, see how we can use this in articles; maybe underscore headlines or run alphabet-coded treasure hunts (or similar...) from time to time...

:cool:
ChrisTheS
07-23-04, 09:25 PM Feel free :) I made it to be useful, after all.
Pallis
07-24-04, 06:07 AM Ok, cheers Chris - you'll see your Khorvese alphabet in a future issue of The Korranberg Chronicle!
ENHenry
07-25-04, 10:42 AM Chris, thank you. Excellent Work!
Liane the Wayfarer
07-27-04, 10:47 AM Truly, a work of art!
kroh
07-29-04, 10:30 AM HoLy SwEeT MoThEr Of .......

Very nice work....

;-)

WalT
Edymnion
12-17-06, 09:20 PM Schweet.
D_Lyrander
12-17-06, 10:45 PM This looks awesome, but I need some help. I downloaded the file, but I still cant access it in word. How do I get this so I can use it. I already unzipped it. Do I need to save it somewhere special?
Edymnion
12-18-06, 12:49 PM This looks awesome, but I need some help. I downloaded the file, but I still cant access it in word. How do I get this so I can use it. I already unzipped it. Do I need to save it somewhere special?Unzip it somewhere easy to find. Then go into C:/Windows/Fonts, goto File, Install New Fonts, and then point it to where you have the unzipped .ttf stored. Tell it to install, and then you will have it for whatever use you require.
Manyfist
12-18-06, 02:27 PM Looks like Morrowind language. Btw which is Uppercase and which is lowercase?
Thwyvylyn
12-18-06, 11:12 PM Looks like Morrowind language. Btw which is Uppercase and which is lowercase?

It's probably like Arabic or Hebrew in that languages have no upper/lower case distinction. Latin didn't either for that matter. Didn't have spaces either as I recall. SOLINVICTVS
zipdrive
12-20-06, 10:24 AM Just wanted to make a little correction:
Hebrew *does* have upper- and lower-case, although it's more appropriately Print and Hand-writing letters. (The first letter in a sentence won't be capital, for example).

Both Hebrew and Arabic, however, have some letters that are written differently if they're at the end of a word.
Nived
12-20-06, 10:51 AM Great and all, but uh...

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/pgte_gallery/95023.jpg

Looks like english to me.
hcotterson
12-20-06, 11:39 PM I would love this in a .ttf. I just put together my campaign primer and borrowed the old Tsolyani script to give an arcane feel in places.

My heart just leapt in my chest for joy at your Empire of the Petal Throne reference. We need more Tekumel!
HauptSin
12-21-06, 10:58 AM Nice!

/writes up some ID and travelling papers for upcoming character.
ChrisTheS
12-21-06, 01:48 PM Looks like english to me.
So does everything not written in tengwar in Lord of the Rings. Common isn't English - it just looks like it to us through the magic of 'convenient oversimplification' :p
ChrisTheS
12-21-06, 01:53 PM I don't think I made lower/uppercase stuff, actually (although it's over two years since I gave any thought at all to it)--I COULD make a 'typeset' version with both, if people would like me to...
Edymnion
12-21-06, 02:02 PM What program are you using for these, Fontographer, or Fontlab maybe?
ChrisTheS
12-21-06, 02:08 PM I drew the glyphs in Photoshop and then imported them into High-Logic Font Creator 3. I'm afraid FontLab's outside my budget :(
Edymnion
12-21-06, 02:12 PM I could see making fonts if I could draw the characters up in Paintshop Pro (which is basically the same as photoshop), where I could have more control, and then export them to something to make fonts out of them. Especially when I could scan a handwritting sample and trace it out with vectors.
ChrisTheS
12-21-06, 05:32 PM I just discovered that Illustrator CS2 can export a vector format that FCP5 can import instead of having to do everything in bitmaps, so I'm playing with that right now.
Edymnion
12-21-06, 05:51 PM Eh, I have ample experience working with vector formats, its actually my preferred method when doing artwork on the computer.
ChrisTheS
12-23-06, 07:42 PM Last few days I've been working on a broadsheet-style 'Korranberg' typeface. It's not quite finished yet, but here's a preview:

Sharn Inquisitive: Issue for Vult 8, 998 YK (http://www.dromaskald.org/lingua/dnd/eberron/sharn_inquisitive.jpg)
Ryuu_Tenshi
12-24-06, 01:38 PM About Arabic:

Arabic actually has different letter shapes depending on if it's in the beginning, middle, or end of a word. So in some ways, it has "capital" letters in that the first letter is different than how it looks in the middle or end of a word.

There's also special cases in handwriting for some letters, like the H sound (not h. lol arabic)
androkguz
12-27-06, 03:52 PM So does everything not written in tengwar in Lord of the Rings. Common isn't English - it just looks like it to us through the magic of 'convenient oversimplification' :p

Well, if you were to create a new languaje you shoulnd't just change the letters but the grammatics and the way words are created. That said, it's easier to asume that english is common.

But I have another idea, how about asinging each Eberronian languaje another languaje from the real world? That way, each would be complete and different. If you also asing a font like Chris did to Common to each alphabet that you might use, then you get something really cool.
ChrisTheS
12-28-06, 01:19 AM That said, it's easier to asume that english is common.
What if your native language isn't English, though? Then you're in a bit of a bind :p
Seriously, though, we can all accept for simplicity's sake that Common is functionally identical to the language we're most familiar with speaking ourselves. However, some of us have trouble accepting the idea that all cultures will start out their own alphabetic scripts with stylized pictograms for 'ox,' 'house,' and 'camel,' especially considering the wide diversity of cultures in the real world who haven't.

Besides which, Khorvaire doesn't exactly have much in the way of deserts, and you're more likely to find apatosaurs there than camels, so the basis for the 'c/g' glyph would require a bit of tweaking in any case :p

Well, if you were to create a new languaje you shoulnd't just change the letters but the grammatics and the way words are created.
I used to do that. Then I got tired of people telling me that I was an idiot for wasting my time on something that nobody but me would ever actually pay attention to. So now I only do stuff that'll make people go 'ooh' over how pretty it is, since that tends to provide a much better return on the investment of time, and only a few people telling me I'm an idiot for wasting my time on something that nobody but me would actually pay attention to.
Siberys
12-29-06, 03:25 AM Actually, I imagine a pictogram of an apatasaurus would look strikingly similar to that of a camel - both have arched backs and long necks...:P
androkguz
12-29-06, 08:34 PM I used to do that. Then I got tired of people telling me that I was an idiot for wasting my time on something that nobody but me would ever actually pay attention to. So now I only do stuff that'll make people go 'ooh' over how pretty it is, since that tends to provide a much better return on the investment of time, and only a few people telling me I'm an idiot for wasting my time on something that nobody but me would actually pay attention to.

Pretty fun, I've actually thought about doing that, but then got to the conclusion that it was way better to invent rules when it was convenient. And words.

Also, common is a languaje that is supposed to be no secret for anyone, so making it be your actual native languaje and saving those fonts for another languaje might not be that a bad idea. But it's your campaing, your time, and your call. Thanks for the alphabet, and my native languaje isn't english, in my campaings, everyone speaks spanish.
ChrisTheS
12-30-06, 12:47 AM Actually, I imagine a pictogram of an apatasaurus would look strikingly similar to that of a camel - both have arched backs and long necks...:P
True, but on a camel the hump is more distinctive than on an apatosaur--the 'gimel' glyph just depicts the hump. Whereas a glyph depicting an apatosaur would have to include neck, hump, and tail, since no one part of the animal is distinctive enough on its own to be represented so simply (it might look something like -^- , a bit more complicated than Γ)
The White Sorcerer
12-30-06, 10:09 AM Sharn Inquisitive: Issue for Vult 8, 998 YK (http://www.dromaskald.org/lingua/dnd/eberron/sharn_inquisitive.jpg)

Looks awesome, keep up the good work.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ChrisTheS 07-22-04, 03:07 AM	http://www.dromaskald.org/lingua/dnd/eberron/khorvese.jpg Here is a little something I cooked up today, as my impressions of what written Eberronian Common might look like. However, there are only 4 images in the entire ECS book that contain any sort of script (one of which is Draconic, and another of which looks like it's just random scribbles anyway), not counting the planar runes or the dragonmarks. So it isn't really a precise transcription: I just used what distinguishable symbols I could, assigned them randomly to letters, and invented others that were similar in feel (and, coincidentally, resembled their Roman or Greek counterparts in some obscure way). So... what does anyone think of it? Is there anything major that needs changing (letters too hard to distinguish, look silly, bear no resemblance whatsoever to what you would expect them to look like, etc)? It's not a patch on Daedric, I know that much... I'm not overly keen on some of the letters either. But I'd like to know what others think before I start tinkering with it again.
EscherEnigma 07-22-04, 03:18 AM	Looks good to me. I think I'll save that image so that I can make runic looking things in the future, I have no talent for making up symbols. Question though: whats the difference in the line above the english alphabet and the one below? The one above looks more refined (as if you had made a font out of it) and the one below looks more scribbled (and bears at least a more superficial resemblance to greek... I think). Is there any difference other than stages that you were working on it?
ChrisTheS 07-22-04, 03:47 AM	The upper one is a font (I developed the alphabet in High-Logic's Font Creator Program). The lower one is an attempt to reverse-engineer that font into non-calligraphed handwriting. That will be especially necessary later when I try to make a Korranberg typeface (like Times New Roman, only for these symbols). If you want the font file, I'll post it as soon as I know whether I'm changing parts of it or not.
NOOC PHD 07-22-04, 04:19 AM	I would love this in a .ttf. I just put together my campaign primer and borrowed the old Tsolyani script to give an arcane feel in places. This would be just fabulous to have. Very nice work.:tiphat:
Bill Muench 07-22-04, 09:20 AM	It looks really great. I'd love to get my hands on a copy. Thanks!
Greyson 07-22-04, 11:45 AM	Originally posted by Bill Muench It looks really great. I'd love to get my hands on a copy. Thanks! Ditto! Great job, Chris. That is a very creative effort, and the script looks clean and tight. A True Type Font would be awesome, as expressed above. But the images in your link are a great resource to start with.
Kryptonian Scion 07-22-04, 12:12 PM	I also think it would be most keen to have this font available.
ENHenry 07-22-04, 03:15 PM	Add another appreciation for the font here. If you create a TTF, I'd also be interested.
ChrisTheS 07-22-04, 06:36 PM	Well... more than 5 in favor, and none opposed, yet. I suppose that's good enough. :) Very well... just give me a little while to come up with numerals and punctuation marks, and then I'll post the font file. Thanks for the response, everyone! :)
MrFilthyIke 07-22-04, 07:38 PM	No, thank YOU... :)
Cantuse 07-22-04, 08:37 PM	This is some good stuff, great to use under headings in english for flavor. Or on hand made 'treasure map' style maps. Similar to the way the dwarven and daedric shrines are noted on maps in Morrowind, for those who are familiar. I'm definately interested in getting that font as well!
ChrisTheS 07-22-04, 09:38 PM	Well, you asked, and so here it is: The Khorvese Font (http://www.dromaskald.org/lingua/dnd/eberron/khorvese_reg.zip) Enjoy :)
Cantuse 07-22-04, 09:41 PM	You are so cool, and when I say cool, I mean totally sweet. :cool:
Greyson 07-22-04, 09:48 PM	Originally posted by Cantuse You are so cool, and when I say cool, I mean totally sweet. What he said! Fantastic job, Chris. You're on the edge, man. The TTF looks great and I already put it to use for an adventure I am running tomorrow. Thanks for the work on this.
EvilDrPuma 07-22-04, 10:20 PM	Man, you will be remembered in my will. (Disclaimer: The estate isn't really coming together the way I had originally hoped. You'll probably be getting Pez.)
Harmon 07-23-04, 02:30 PM	Thats fantastic man seriously thank you, you rock...I love you.
Pallis 07-23-04, 03:51 PM	Nice work Chris! If you're ok with this, I'll have a word with the KC team, see how we can use this in articles; maybe underscore headlines or run alphabet-coded treasure hunts (or similar...) from time to time... :cool:
ChrisTheS 07-23-04, 09:25 PM	Feel free :) I made it to be useful, after all.
Pallis 07-24-04, 06:07 AM	Ok, cheers Chris - you'll see your Khorvese alphabet in a future issue of The Korranberg Chronicle!
ENHenry 07-25-04, 10:42 AM	Chris, thank you. Excellent Work!
Liane the Wayfarer 07-27-04, 10:47 AM	Truly, a work of art!
kroh 07-29-04, 10:30 AM	HoLy SwEeT MoThEr Of ....... Very nice work.... ;-) WalT
Edymnion 12-17-06, 09:20 PM	Schweet.
D_Lyrander 12-17-06, 10:45 PM	This looks awesome, but I need some help. I downloaded the file, but I still cant access it in word. How do I get this so I can use it. I already unzipped it. Do I need to save it somewhere special?
Edymnion 12-18-06, 12:49 PM	This looks awesome, but I need some help. I downloaded the file, but I still cant access it in word. How do I get this so I can use it. I already unzipped it. Do I need to save it somewhere special?Unzip it somewhere easy to find. Then go into C:/Windows/Fonts, goto File, Install New Fonts, and then point it to where you have the unzipped .ttf stored. Tell it to install, and then you will have it for whatever use you require.
Manyfist 12-18-06, 02:27 PM	Looks like Morrowind language. Btw which is Uppercase and which is lowercase?
Thwyvylyn 12-18-06, 11:12 PM	Looks like Morrowind language. Btw which is Uppercase and which is lowercase? It's probably like Arabic or Hebrew in that languages have no upper/lower case distinction. Latin didn't either for that matter. Didn't have spaces either as I recall. SOLINVICTVS
zipdrive 12-20-06, 10:24 AM	Just wanted to make a little correction: Hebrew does have upper- and lower-case, although it's more appropriately Print and Hand-writing letters. (The first letter in a sentence won't be capital, for example). Both Hebrew and Arabic, however, have some letters that are written differently if they're at the end of a word.
Nived 12-20-06, 10:51 AM	Great and all, but uh... http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/pgte_gallery/95023.jpg Looks like english to me.
hcotterson 12-20-06, 11:39 PM	I would love this in a .ttf. I just put together my campaign primer and borrowed the old Tsolyani script to give an arcane feel in places. My heart just leapt in my chest for joy at your Empire of the Petal Throne reference. We need more Tekumel!
HauptSin 12-21-06, 10:58 AM	Nice! /writes up some ID and travelling papers for upcoming character.
ChrisTheS 12-21-06, 01:48 PM	Looks like english to me. So does everything not written in tengwar in Lord of the Rings. Common isn't English - it just looks like it to us through the magic of 'convenient oversimplification' :p
ChrisTheS 12-21-06, 01:53 PM	I don't think I made lower/uppercase stuff, actually (although it's over two years since I gave any thought at all to it)--I COULD make a 'typeset' version with both, if people would like me to...
Edymnion 12-21-06, 02:02 PM	What program are you using for these, Fontographer, or Fontlab maybe?
ChrisTheS 12-21-06, 02:08 PM	I drew the glyphs in Photoshop and then imported them into High-Logic Font Creator 3. I'm afraid FontLab's outside my budget :(
Edymnion 12-21-06, 02:12 PM	I could see making fonts if I could draw the characters up in Paintshop Pro (which is basically the same as photoshop), where I could have more control, and then export them to something to make fonts out of them. Especially when I could scan a handwritting sample and trace it out with vectors.
ChrisTheS 12-21-06, 05:32 PM	I just discovered that Illustrator CS2 can export a vector format that FCP5 can import instead of having to do everything in bitmaps, so I'm playing with that right now.
Edymnion 12-21-06, 05:51 PM	Eh, I have ample experience working with vector formats, its actually my preferred method when doing artwork on the computer.
ChrisTheS 12-23-06, 07:42 PM	Last few days I've been working on a broadsheet-style 'Korranberg' typeface. It's not quite finished yet, but here's a preview: Sharn Inquisitive: Issue for Vult 8, 998 YK (http://www.dromaskald.org/lingua/dnd/eberron/sharn_inquisitive.jpg)
Ryuu_Tenshi 12-24-06, 01:38 PM	About Arabic: Arabic actually has different letter shapes depending on if it's in the beginning, middle, or end of a word. So in some ways, it has "capital" letters in that the first letter is different than how it looks in the middle or end of a word. There's also special cases in handwriting for some letters, like the H sound (not h. lol arabic)
androkguz 12-27-06, 03:52 PM	So does everything not written in tengwar in Lord of the Rings. Common isn't English - it just looks like it to us through the magic of 'convenient oversimplification' :p Well, if you were to create a new languaje you shoulnd't just change the letters but the grammatics and the way words are created. That said, it's easier to asume that english is common. But I have another idea, how about asinging each Eberronian languaje another languaje from the real world? That way, each would be complete and different. If you also asing a font like Chris did to Common to each alphabet that you might use, then you get something really cool.
ChrisTheS 12-28-06, 01:19 AM	That said, it's easier to asume that english is common. What if your native language isn't English, though? Then you're in a bit of a bind :p Seriously, though, we can all accept for simplicity's sake that Common is functionally identical to the language we're most familiar with speaking ourselves. However, some of us have trouble accepting the idea that all cultures will start out their own alphabetic scripts with stylized pictograms for 'ox,' 'house,' and 'camel,' especially considering the wide diversity of cultures in the real world who haven't. Besides which, Khorvaire doesn't exactly have much in the way of deserts, and you're more likely to find apatosaurs there than camels, so the basis for the 'c/g' glyph would require a bit of tweaking in any case :p Well, if you were to create a new languaje you shoulnd't just change the letters but the grammatics and the way words are created. I used to do that. Then I got tired of people telling me that I was an idiot for wasting my time on something that nobody but me would ever actually pay attention to. So now I only do stuff that'll make people go 'ooh' over how pretty it is, since that tends to provide a much better return on the investment of time, and only a few people telling me I'm an idiot for wasting my time on something that nobody but me would actually pay attention to.
Siberys 12-29-06, 03:25 AM	Actually, I imagine a pictogram of an apatasaurus would look strikingly similar to that of a camel - both have arched backs and long necks...:P
androkguz 12-29-06, 08:34 PM	I used to do that. Then I got tired of people telling me that I was an idiot for wasting my time on something that nobody but me would ever actually pay attention to. So now I only do stuff that'll make people go 'ooh' over how pretty it is, since that tends to provide a much better return on the investment of time, and only a few people telling me I'm an idiot for wasting my time on something that nobody but me would actually pay attention to. Pretty fun, I've actually thought about doing that, but then got to the conclusion that it was way better to invent rules when it was convenient. And words. Also, common is a languaje that is supposed to be no secret for anyone, so making it be your actual native languaje and saving those fonts for another languaje might not be that a bad idea. But it's your campaing, your time, and your call. Thanks for the alphabet, and my native languaje isn't english, in my campaings, everyone speaks spanish.
ChrisTheS 12-30-06, 12:47 AM	Actually, I imagine a pictogram of an apatasaurus would look strikingly similar to that of a camel - both have arched backs and long necks...:P True, but on a camel the hump is more distinctive than on an apatosaur--the 'gimel' glyph just depicts the hump. Whereas a glyph depicting an apatosaur would have to include neck, hump, and tail, since no one part of the animal is distinctive enough on its own to be represented so simply (it might look something like -^- , a bit more complicated than Γ)
The White Sorcerer 12-30-06, 10:09 AM	Sharn Inquisitive: Issue for Vult 8, 998 YK (http://www.dromaskald.org/lingua/dnd/eberron/sharn_inquisitive.jpg) Looks awesome, keep up the good work.