Kobolds Rule [Archive] - Wizards Community

Kobolds Rule [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mintos
09-02-06, 04:28 PM i have a kobold barbarian w/fighter substitution feats. there is only one problem, he sucks. i dont play for power, but being bullied by other players who do is getting very annoying. ideas anyone? something in the quintisential kobold or somthing? :help: :raincloud
Nived
09-02-06, 05:10 PM i have a kobold barbarian w/fighter substitution feats. there is only one problem, he sucks. i dont play for power, but being bullied by other players who do is getting very annoying. ideas anyone? something in the quintisential kobold or somthing? :help: :raincloud

Kobolds just aren't built to be melee monsters. That's like complaining that your half orc wizard is lagging behind. It's to be expected.

Kobolds excell in certain classes, barbarian and fighter aren't among them.
RuneSpellcarvedSoldier
09-02-06, 05:17 PM they do take that hit to their strenght scores personally i like kobolds to but you gotta stick to something they can actually do socercer is a good choice but i personally prefer the rouge to assassin path.
Lafarallin
09-02-06, 05:32 PM I think anything can be powerful if you focus on it's strengths. What are the strengths of a kobold you ask? Well size can be strength depending on many factors.

Someone picks a fight with you walk out onto a newly frozen pond to duke it out. Chances are they'll be falling through before you.

Pick your battles in tunnels that are slightly over your head. Anything fighting you in a tunnel that you can barely stand in is going to have issues.

Can't find a tunnel? Find a densely populated forest. It is going to be much easier for you to weave and dance your way around the natural terrain.

Everyone else playing humans or creatures with low light vision? I believe kobolds have dark vision correct? Well take them into an area where there is no light sources. If they have magical light or magical abilities to grant them dark vision remove that item. Sunder it, steal it, negate it....whatever, just make them blind and you'll have a huge advantage. Now some will cry, "But they have blind fighting." Wonderful if you fight toe to toe...but you can move around and lead them to location of your choosing. Bring them to a large crevase and watch them fall in. Blind fighting doesn't give you an ability to know terrain around you, just to locate someone fighting you.

Then you have other advantages. If this world is Eberron or any other world for that matter, you're going to probably have an advantage when dealing with other humanoids. Use this to your advantage too.

These are just a few ideas I can think of off the top of my head. Yes you may have some weakneses imparted by attributes, but really this shouldn't be that "HUGE" of a problem in the end. You can overcome or equal things out of you think like a kobold! KOBOLD POWER!! :w00t:

EDIT: Also, what really is the huge difference between a human barbarian and a kobold barbarian? The -2 strength and extra feat? This hardly seems that overwhelming to me.
JulesCARV
09-02-06, 05:40 PM Hmm.... well, what are your ability scores? You might go sorcerer/eldritch knight or something, but only if you're charismatic.

If you don't have great charisma, your best bet is probably a roguish route, but given that neither barbarian nor rogue are favored classes, this presents a few difficulties.

If you're patient, and don't have great charisma, you might aim for a rogue-type prestige class -- say, nightsong infiltrator or extreme explorer -- and alternate barbarian levels and rogue or scout levels, keeping them within one level of each other until you can prestige out.
Nived
09-02-06, 06:15 PM EDIT: Also, what really is the huge difference between a human barbarian and a kobold barbarian? The -2 strength and extra feat? This hardly seems that overwhelming to me.

-4 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con.

Kobolds take hit to the two most important stats for a Barbarian. Rage might 'offset' the penelty... but that's not rage's purpose... Rage is supposed to push you beyond normal means. Not to mention the smaller weapon damage.

If you want to do grevious damage in melee with a Kobold you just can't do it in a straight up fight. Nor should you. Kobolds are sneaky little punks for a reason, it works for them.

+2 to dex, Darkvision, and speed are the only advantages Kobolds have. In every other way they suck. Because they're not balanced to be a PC race (they're not), they're specifically ment to be a weak monster. That's their lot in life, weak level one cannon fodder. You have to accept this as fact.

That doesn't man you can't make a successful Kobold, you can. But you have to play to the strengths it has... and those strengths happen to be down the rogue path. With their small size, darkvision, and speed, a Kobold rogue at night will be able to scout more effectively than most creatures.

In standup fights their speed will and dex bonus will allow them to move to flank more often than a halfling rogue, while giving the same bonus to tumble.

Sneak attack damage offsets both the small sized weapon damage and the str damage. Darkvision will allow you other options as well.

By and large I can't tell you how to make an effective Kobold Barbarian because I don't think you can. Small Size, -4 str, -2 Con hurts too much.
igotsmeakabob!!
09-02-06, 06:29 PM I recommend the optimization forums.
Bluebrush
09-02-06, 06:46 PM The fastest way would be to have yourself killed in battle, then reincarnated. There's a fairly decent chance of coming back as an orc or Half-Orc, if you use the Eberron Reincarnation tables.
Lafarallin
09-02-06, 08:45 PM I still don't think the negatives are that horrible. So you're not doing much strength wise, you take weapon finesse and focus on being a more nimble warrior type. It can be done. Not every warrior has to have 18+ strength, look at the infamous Drizzt.

As for the -2 con, kind of sucks; but 16 constitution isn't horrible. The first question I'd ask is look at the other people in your group. What races/classes are they playing?

The second question. Give me an example of their ability scores.

One horrifying trend is everyone playing with characters that have two 18's and one 16, with the lowest ability score being a 10. How many times have you or others here ever had a character without one 18? Now I'm not trying to pick a fight here but when a human can start with two 18's and other races can have an 18 and 20 to start...well yeah a kobold is going to seem a bit frail. This isn't a problem with the race but a problem with the DM allowing supercharacters.

Too many people get too caught up in the ability scores and the numbers. Munchkinism is spreading like a disease!!

But in all seriousness. There might be some other issues in your campaign other then just being a kobold with -4 str, -2 con, and +2 dex.
Breeder
09-02-06, 10:37 PM You could always use PHBII rules and rebuild if your GM allows.
Salla
09-03-06, 12:38 AM You could always ask the other players stop pestering your character so much, as it's detracting from your enjoyment of the game, which is why you're there.
edhazard
09-03-06, 03:08 AM If you have access to it, Races of the Dragon offers some interesting ideas and race/class substitution levels. As a kobold barbarian, you should probably focus on hit and run tactics. Kobolds have a move speed of 30 ft. anyway, as a barbarian you get plus 10ft., plus the AC bonus for being Small. Cross bows don't impose a Str penalty to use, you could focus on Skirmish-type fighting. I believe that Races of the Dragon also offers some sort of Spear specialization for kobolds. It also offers a bunch of feats for "dragonblood" characters which kobolds qualify for.
G_O_D
09-03-06, 11:14 AM If you like being a barbarian, great. If the other players are harassing your character I have to ask if you still have ties to your kobold clan. If you do I have two words for you: dither bombs. If your DM will allow them they are very useful and if you have an illusionist you can disguise them as snow globes. In one of my games I have a kobold artificer that is working towards taking over a town in Q'barra. It's very fun because he is the brains of the group.:D
Just another user
09-03-06, 05:52 PM Ideas? well, what about, "Dont' play barbarians with a huge strength penality and small size" sound? Or at least don't do it and expect it to be effective.

You could go sorcerer and use the PrC Rage Mage from complete warrior that let you cast spells while raging, I'm not sure how effective it would be but at least it would be flavorful.
Breeder
09-03-06, 11:04 PM Besides, who says that when a Barbarian rages it has to go into Melee? Why cant you use a bow? If you increase your strength enough to make use of a mighty composite bow then that would work that much better.
BrotherDog
09-03-06, 11:22 PM I recommend Multi-classing with Sorc. Make sure you're using Kobold weapons, especially the Greatpick it has a "x4" crit-moidfier. Everyone else needs an exotic weapon proficiency to use the weapon, plus it's damage is still good for small creatures.

Role-playing wise kind of constantly hint at being a living Dragon-mark as well. Rub it in at every occasion.:D
ArcTan
09-04-06, 12:13 AM You can convince your DM that because you're effectively playing an underpowered character for your level, you should be earning more XP per encounter (i.e. pretend that your character has a negative LA, something that doesn't actually exist but sometimes should). This was the effect of the different XP tables in older editions, and it makes sense -- if you can make an *over*powered character that takes a hit to XP for its overpoweredness, you should be able to do the opposite to make a gimped character more playable. You should be getting some kind of "roleplaying" or "challenge" XP for beating encounters, since you're working a lot harder to make an impact.

The net effect of this -- having one or two more character levels than everyone else -- shouldn't make you unbalancedly powerful, or even really solve the major problems your character has, but should help you at least survive.
cog_and_taz
09-07-06, 08:34 AM Mildly off-topic, but for all of you kobold fans out there, here's some borderline insane stuff:http://www.9thlevel.com/kobolds.html

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mintos 09-02-06, 04:28 PM	i have a kobold barbarian w/fighter substitution feats. there is only one problem, he sucks. i dont play for power, but being bullied by other players who do is getting very annoying. ideas anyone? something in the quintisential kobold or somthing? :help: :raincloud
Nived 09-02-06, 05:10 PM	i have a kobold barbarian w/fighter substitution feats. there is only one problem, he sucks. i dont play for power, but being bullied by other players who do is getting very annoying. ideas anyone? something in the quintisential kobold or somthing? :help: :raincloud Kobolds just aren't built to be melee monsters. That's like complaining that your half orc wizard is lagging behind. It's to be expected. Kobolds excell in certain classes, barbarian and fighter aren't among them.
RuneSpellcarvedSoldier 09-02-06, 05:17 PM	they do take that hit to their strenght scores personally i like kobolds to but you gotta stick to something they can actually do socercer is a good choice but i personally prefer the rouge to assassin path.
Lafarallin 09-02-06, 05:32 PM	I think anything can be powerful if you focus on it's strengths. What are the strengths of a kobold you ask? Well size can be strength depending on many factors. Someone picks a fight with you walk out onto a newly frozen pond to duke it out. Chances are they'll be falling through before you. Pick your battles in tunnels that are slightly over your head. Anything fighting you in a tunnel that you can barely stand in is going to have issues. Can't find a tunnel? Find a densely populated forest. It is going to be much easier for you to weave and dance your way around the natural terrain. Everyone else playing humans or creatures with low light vision? I believe kobolds have dark vision correct? Well take them into an area where there is no light sources. If they have magical light or magical abilities to grant them dark vision remove that item. Sunder it, steal it, negate it....whatever, just make them blind and you'll have a huge advantage. Now some will cry, "But they have blind fighting." Wonderful if you fight toe to toe...but you can move around and lead them to location of your choosing. Bring them to a large crevase and watch them fall in. Blind fighting doesn't give you an ability to know terrain around you, just to locate someone fighting you. Then you have other advantages. If this world is Eberron or any other world for that matter, you're going to probably have an advantage when dealing with other humanoids. Use this to your advantage too. These are just a few ideas I can think of off the top of my head. Yes you may have some weakneses imparted by attributes, but really this shouldn't be that "HUGE" of a problem in the end. You can overcome or equal things out of you think like a kobold! KOBOLD POWER!! :w00t: EDIT: Also, what really is the huge difference between a human barbarian and a kobold barbarian? The -2 strength and extra feat? This hardly seems that overwhelming to me.
JulesCARV 09-02-06, 05:40 PM	Hmm.... well, what are your ability scores? You might go sorcerer/eldritch knight or something, but only if you're charismatic. If you don't have great charisma, your best bet is probably a roguish route, but given that neither barbarian nor rogue are favored classes, this presents a few difficulties. If you're patient, and don't have great charisma, you might aim for a rogue-type prestige class -- say, nightsong infiltrator or extreme explorer -- and alternate barbarian levels and rogue or scout levels, keeping them within one level of each other until you can prestige out.
Nived 09-02-06, 06:15 PM	EDIT: Also, what really is the huge difference between a human barbarian and a kobold barbarian? The -2 strength and extra feat? This hardly seems that overwhelming to me. -4 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con. Kobolds take hit to the two most important stats for a Barbarian. Rage might 'offset' the penelty... but that's not rage's purpose... Rage is supposed to push you beyond normal means. Not to mention the smaller weapon damage. If you want to do grevious damage in melee with a Kobold you just can't do it in a straight up fight. Nor should you. Kobolds are sneaky little punks for a reason, it works for them. +2 to dex, Darkvision, and speed are the only advantages Kobolds have. In every other way they suck. Because they're not balanced to be a PC race (they're not), they're specifically ment to be a weak monster. That's their lot in life, weak level one cannon fodder. You have to accept this as fact. That doesn't man you can't make a successful Kobold, you can. But you have to play to the strengths it has... and those strengths happen to be down the rogue path. With their small size, darkvision, and speed, a Kobold rogue at night will be able to scout more effectively than most creatures. In standup fights their speed will and dex bonus will allow them to move to flank more often than a halfling rogue, while giving the same bonus to tumble. Sneak attack damage offsets both the small sized weapon damage and the str damage. Darkvision will allow you other options as well. By and large I can't tell you how to make an effective Kobold Barbarian because I don't think you can. Small Size, -4 str, -2 Con hurts too much.
igotsmeakabob!! 09-02-06, 06:29 PM	I recommend the optimization forums.
Bluebrush 09-02-06, 06:46 PM	The fastest way would be to have yourself killed in battle, then reincarnated. There's a fairly decent chance of coming back as an orc or Half-Orc, if you use the Eberron Reincarnation tables.
Lafarallin 09-02-06, 08:45 PM	I still don't think the negatives are that horrible. So you're not doing much strength wise, you take weapon finesse and focus on being a more nimble warrior type. It can be done. Not every warrior has to have 18+ strength, look at the infamous Drizzt. As for the -2 con, kind of sucks; but 16 constitution isn't horrible. The first question I'd ask is look at the other people in your group. What races/classes are they playing? The second question. Give me an example of their ability scores. One horrifying trend is everyone playing with characters that have two 18's and one 16, with the lowest ability score being a 10. How many times have you or others here ever had a character without one 18? Now I'm not trying to pick a fight here but when a human can start with two 18's and other races can have an 18 and 20 to start...well yeah a kobold is going to seem a bit frail. This isn't a problem with the race but a problem with the DM allowing supercharacters. Too many people get too caught up in the ability scores and the numbers. Munchkinism is spreading like a disease!! But in all seriousness. There might be some other issues in your campaign other then just being a kobold with -4 str, -2 con, and +2 dex.
Breeder 09-02-06, 10:37 PM	You could always use PHBII rules and rebuild if your GM allows.
Salla 09-03-06, 12:38 AM	You could always ask the other players stop pestering your character so much, as it's detracting from your enjoyment of the game, which is why you're there.
edhazard 09-03-06, 03:08 AM	If you have access to it, Races of the Dragon offers some interesting ideas and race/class substitution levels. As a kobold barbarian, you should probably focus on hit and run tactics. Kobolds have a move speed of 30 ft. anyway, as a barbarian you get plus 10ft., plus the AC bonus for being Small. Cross bows don't impose a Str penalty to use, you could focus on Skirmish-type fighting. I believe that Races of the Dragon also offers some sort of Spear specialization for kobolds. It also offers a bunch of feats for "dragonblood" characters which kobolds qualify for.
G_O_D 09-03-06, 11:14 AM	If you like being a barbarian, great. If the other players are harassing your character I have to ask if you still have ties to your kobold clan. If you do I have two words for you: dither bombs. If your DM will allow them they are very useful and if you have an illusionist you can disguise them as snow globes. In one of my games I have a kobold artificer that is working towards taking over a town in Q'barra. It's very fun because he is the brains of the group.:D
Just another user 09-03-06, 05:52 PM	Ideas? well, what about, "Dont' play barbarians with a huge strength penality and small size" sound? Or at least don't do it and expect it to be effective. You could go sorcerer and use the PrC Rage Mage from complete warrior that let you cast spells while raging, I'm not sure how effective it would be but at least it would be flavorful.
Breeder 09-03-06, 11:04 PM	Besides, who says that when a Barbarian rages it has to go into Melee? Why cant you use a bow? If you increase your strength enough to make use of a mighty composite bow then that would work that much better.
BrotherDog 09-03-06, 11:22 PM	I recommend Multi-classing with Sorc. Make sure you're using Kobold weapons, especially the Greatpick it has a "x4" crit-moidfier. Everyone else needs an exotic weapon proficiency to use the weapon, plus it's damage is still good for small creatures. Role-playing wise kind of constantly hint at being a living Dragon-mark as well. Rub it in at every occasion.:D
ArcTan 09-04-06, 12:13 AM	You can convince your DM that because you're effectively playing an underpowered character for your level, you should be earning more XP per encounter (i.e. pretend that your character has a negative LA, something that doesn't actually exist but sometimes should). This was the effect of the different XP tables in older editions, and it makes sense -- if you can make an overpowered character that takes a hit to XP for its overpoweredness, you should be able to do the opposite to make a gimped character more playable. You should be getting some kind of "roleplaying" or "challenge" XP for beating encounters, since you're working a lot harder to make an impact. The net effect of this -- having one or two more character levels than everyone else -- shouldn't make you unbalancedly powerful, or even really solve the major problems your character has, but should help you at least survive.
cog_and_taz 09-07-06, 08:34 AM	Mildly off-topic, but for all of you kobold fans out there, here's some borderline insane stuff:http://www.9thlevel.com/kobolds.html