Land? [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Land? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Adamaro23
05-30-07, 07:10 PM After reading a thread in What's A Player to Do?, i've come here to ask all of you this:

If while playing in Eberron, your DM has rewarded you party with 1 acre of land somewhere towards the middle of the Shadow Marches with a broken down shack on it, what would you (as a player) do with it?

I'm going to be doing this with my group soon, and was wondering how players would feel about owning a shack in a swamp. What would you do with it? It will serve as a base, a safe place for your group.

In addition to this assume your group has an airship, would you still find the shack useful as a base?

Also if you did'nt have an airship how would you go about getting to your property in the Shadow Marches? (without it being too much trouble)

I'm just wondering how others veiw this idea from a players point of veiw.
cancerousmango
05-30-07, 07:22 PM An acre in the Shadow Marches? Level the shack, put up a tower for the airship. With a Lyre of Building, it shouldn't take long at all. Ward it against monsters with a wall or some glyphs of warding, as the Marches are crawling. Really search the place for dragonshards, on the off-chance that they're there.

Being in a swamp may cause trouble, but a solid foundation along with a couple rope riggings tied to tall, sturdy trees should keep it up nicely. Trade with the local orcs: you can buy baubles and niceties in Sharn and fly them there, charging a certain percentage more from the orcs. You could also rent the tower out for airship docking purposes, charge a hefty fee for resupplies. House Lyrandar may take exception to this, but give it a try.

REMEMBER: LYRE OF BUILDING!
Edymnion
05-30-07, 07:25 PM One lousy acre?
Dude, thats average house lot size. The Eldeen Reaches are bigger than california. A hundred acres is a reward, one lousy acre with a shack is a freaking slap in the face...
cancerousmango
05-30-07, 07:32 PM One lousy acre?
Dude, thats average house lot size. The Eldeen Reaches are bigger than california. A hundred acres is a reward, one lousy acre with a shack is a freaking slap in the face...
43,560 square feet isn't bad at all. With a little extradimensional work, you could fit a lot there. But seriously, if you need a house that's bigger than a football field, you're just greedy.
retillin
05-30-07, 10:22 PM Yeah sorry, 1 acre is not much land at all. Something closer to 80-100 would be a better gift. And so that you dont think that's too huge, I grew up on 80 acre and now live in the city. 80 was just right, couldnt see the next house, and it's enough land to hunt/grow some food. So I would give them some more and build a tower like Cancerousmango said.

Once they get higher level you could make a few circles of telportations. Or (I cant remember what they are called), there are one use magical items that bring you back to a single place. Word of Recall I think? Anyways just a few idea. Have a good one.
Edymnion
05-30-07, 10:34 PM 43,560 square feet isn't bad at all. With a little extradimensional work, you could fit a lot there. But seriously, if you need a house that's bigger than a football field, you're just greedy.Its in the middle of the freaking Eldeen Reaches. What are you going to do in the middle of the wilderness with a speck of land that isn't big enough to make food, isn't big enough to hunt, it isn't big enough to do anything but put a 2 bedroom house on with enough of a front yard to look pretty.

In the middle of the freaking Eldeen Reaches.

There is no support structure in place. There are no grocery stores, there are no jobs, there is no way to support yourself on one lousy acre in the middle of virgin forest. Hunting and gathering would require you to leave your property, at which point you might as well only have a few hundred square feet that you own.

An acre is only a valuable piece of real-estate in developed cities.
This may be too southern of a referance for everyone, but have you ever heard "Gonna go plow the lower 40"? It is referring to a single field that takes up 40 acres. Any serious farm would cover hundreds of acres, while the most prosperous farms took up THOUSANDS of acres. A single square mile is 640 acres. A plot of land small enough that you could walk from one end to the other in under 10 minutes is 640 acres.

Seriously, an acre in the middle of the wilderness isn't worth the time and effort just to get to it, much less trying to actually build anything on it. Sell it off to a druid or something and let them make a bonsai garden out of it.
Adamaro23
05-31-07, 12:57 AM see, i wanna basicly base this 1 acre off of Louisiana swamps, if you leave your 1 acre no one's going to care.

Idon't really expect people to build a mansion out in the middle of a swamp, just maybe fix up the poor abandoned shack, possibly turn it into a nice little house. I understand how big 1 acre is, i used to live on 12 of them. it seemed pretty huge.

So basicly they own a shack, since no-one cares about land boundries, it's in a swamp, it probably isn't even marked. It's more-or-less a hideout in the wilderness away from civilization, a place to go to when your'e tired of the city. Or wanted.

Thanks for all the input so far :) , just trying to see how players may respond to this.
Adamaro23
05-31-07, 01:01 AM Any serious farm would cover hundreds of acres, while the most prosperous farms took up THOUSANDS of acres. A single square mile is 640 acres. A plot of land small enough that you could walk from one end to the other in under 10 minutes is 640 acres.

who said it was a farm? also how fast are you walking? it took me an hour to walk my 12 acres and back. Like i said in my above post, it's more-or-less a shack, not as much as the 1 acre.

Also how is everyone figuring that the Shadow Marches are in the Eldeen Reaches? i'm aware of the Gatekeepers being there, but is it really considered part of the Reaches?
retillin
05-31-07, 02:51 AM The only problem I see outside of trying to get there and back, is how easy it would be for some rampaging moster or a small group of orcs or something to come in and just take over while they are gone. As a player, I wouldnt be that into it untill higher level where I had the magic to protect it.
Luis_Dragunov
05-31-07, 07:55 AM I would smack the DM on the back of the head and ask for my *******ed magic battle axe.
Edymnion
05-31-07, 12:40 PM who said it was a farm?The size of a farm is for referance.also how fast are you walking? it took me an hour to walk my 12 acres and back.So it took you an hour to walk 12 acres. Sounds like 10 minutes to walk an acre to me.Like i said in my above post, it's more-or-less a shack, not as much as the 1 acre.Then why give them any land at all? Just give them the shack. My point was that an acre of land is meaningless. If you're going to give them a shack, give 'em the shack and don't worry about the land. If you're going to give them land that they can build on and improve, then give them enough land that they can actually use it for something.Also how is everyone figuring that the Shadow Marches are in the Eldeen Reaches?I'm sorry, that one was my fault, somewhere between reading and posting I got my wildernesses mixed up.
Lancer2010
05-31-07, 07:03 PM I know what I'd do.

First, fix up said shack. Next, hire me a band, put up some signs, and then add a fat half-orc with a Cajun accent.

Some mighty fine eats and good music? We got us a swinging blues joint.

My Gaurantee!
Edymnion
05-31-07, 08:03 PM Of course, it is the Shadow Marches. Long as you back it up with force of arms, you can pretty much claim as much land as you want as yours.
korcheck
06-01-07, 05:39 PM My question is why are they getting the property and who from? If it's from a poor village they saved and it say on the outskirts of said village then the size makes sense. If it's smack in the middle of BFE for no other reason then to give them a hide-out then make it a bit bigger.
If you want to be a bit funny about it before you tell them where it is make a big deal about this beautiful scenic plot of land they are recieving as a reward in front of an audience and how hard it is to get a bit of land of your own complete with a nice flowery speech then after everyone is gone give them the title to the land and a free one way trip out to it. the look on there face as you discribe this desolate local will be classic. :D
Gurv
06-02-07, 04:27 PM Sounds like a slap in the face to me.

An acre is about 208 feet on a side, if perfectly square (requiring fourteen rounds to cross, assuming trackless swampland...less than a minute if there is a road). It could be impressive if the land had any value...but if it's in the middle of nowhere with nothing but a shack on it, I wouldn't say it does. Owning such a spot could be more burden than boon, if the PCs have to pay taxes on it, or if they're legally expected to farm or otherwise develop it.

Of course, a dozen adventure ideas spring to mind. The land could turn out to be extremely valuable, if there are dragonshards (there must be a reason someone would build the shack). There could also be daelkyr ruins and/or access to Khyber somewhere on the plot. A manifest zone. A dryad with some spellcasting ability rooted down who is willing to be an ally as long as she is kept safe. And once it becomes known that the PCs got more than expected, the giver of the land might have second thoughts...

cancerousmango: why would PCs with a lyre of building, airship access, and the ability to do "extradimensional work" even visit a 1-acre piece of swamp? That would be like giving Bill Gates an old PC I saved from going to the dump...if he's willing to come pick it up himself.
Edymnion
06-02-07, 05:57 PM cancerousmango: why would PCs with a lyre of building, airship access, and the ability to do "extradimensional work" even visit a 1-acre piece of swamp? That would be like giving Bill Gates an old PC I saved from going to the dump...if he's willing to come pick it up himself.Yes, anybody with the resources to command airships and mages with enough might to make extradimensional fortresses would be among the most influential and powerful people in the setting.

Really, think about it. You're rewarding somebody thats wearing clothes that cost more than all of the houses on your street, and you're going to reward him by giving him $20.
gelalshawr
06-02-07, 06:08 PM The size of a farm is for referance.So it took you an hour to walk 12 acres. Sounds like 10 minutes to walk an acre to me.

A single square mile is 640 acres. A plot of land small enough that you could walk from one end to the other in under 10 minutes is 640 acres.

Umm, either you made a typo Edy... or you can't even keep your own stories straight.
Edymnion
06-02-07, 06:21 PM Umm, either you made a typo Edy... or you can't even keep your own stories straight.Well, the 640 acres per square mile is from google, so thats right.
And yeah, the other is a typo. 12 acres an hour, thats 12 acres in 60 minutes, so he's actually walking an acre in 5 minutes, not 10.
gaerfindel
06-02-07, 08:56 PM All of this is gleaned from Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_units), btw.

An acre is an area of land that can be plowed by one man behind one ox in one day. It is typically one furlong--or "furrow-length"--long by one chain, usually defined as four rods, or 22 feet. Since the soil properties determine the length of a furrow, an acre actually varies in size depending on its location. Heavier, rockier soil means a short furrow, and thus a smaller acre. A rood is a quarter-acre--one furlong by one rod; about a quarter-day's work behind the plow. An oxgate (also called a bovate) is the amount of land plowed by that same ox in a single season--about 15 roods. A virgate is twice that, a season's plowing by two oxen or 30 roods, while a carucate is four times a virgate, 120 roods (30 acres)--in other words, what eight oxen can plow in a single plowing season.

Now, on to administrative units: A hide is a unit of yeild, rather than area. Its definded as the amount needed to support one household; typically four to eight oxgates in size. A Knight's Fee is roughly five hides, and is the minimum needed to support & equip one knight for a year's service. It was of course in surplus to the hides of the tenant farmers who plowed, sowed, and reaped the Fee's acres. A wapentake, more commonly called a hundred, is 100 hides grouped together for administrative purposes.

Now let us suppose that some Marcher lordling grants the PCs "land enough to equip and maintain 20 good fighting men (2nd level warriors) for the defense whereof." This means area enough to provide 100 hides, plus area enough to support the tenants who shall maintain that hundred. (The soldiers shall be too busy training, patrolling, and fighting to plow, sow, and reap.) Let's assume that a fifth of the land under plow is forfit to the troops. This means an additional four hundreds-worth of land, each which can vary in size from 400 to 800 oxgates, or 1500 to 3000 acres. Which, again, can themselves vary in size due to the soil qualities of the Marches. All told, we are talking about an possible area of up to 3600 acres--an area 60 furlongs (roughly 7.5 miles) "square".

(Mind you, none of this assumes the use of the Raincallers' Guild or any other form of magic to increase yeild, which can get damned expensive.)

But this is the Marches; you don't get much in the way of land that can be plowed by a team of oxen or tribex or what-have-you. You can farm he land by building up raised beds--say about a rood each, in size--with canals in between providing both water & access via canoe, and go from there. More practically, the PCs should probably pay the Prospector's Guild to locate any rich dragonshard deposites and fund their "twenty fighting men" from the profits.
Cifer
06-04-07, 07:42 AM More specifically, assuming the acre is a square, you can run around it within about 70 seconds, or 7 combat turns. Or you could, assuming it wasn't in a freaking swamp which bogs down your movement rates...
So there's two possibilities: Either they have to stay on their land, in which case it's useless - or they can claim land around them, meaning that the granting of the one acre is meaningless.
Ryoden_Anariavas
06-04-07, 09:15 AM As a player I would need some heavy reason to stay on the "lousy one-acre" in the middle of the swamps. Unless you play on making it have some permenant expensive feature that is worth paying attention to then you are not realy giving the PCs anything that they couldnt get for 500gp in Middle Dura.
korcheck
06-04-07, 10:51 AM ada, could you please view my previous post and answer those questions it may help us out alot.
Malruhn
06-04-07, 10:35 PM One lousy acre?
Dude, thats average house lot size. The Eldeen Reaches are bigger than california. A hundred acres is a reward, one lousy acre with a shack is a freaking slap in the face...
I don't want to be a poop here, but in most cities, a standard lot is anywhere from 1/8 of an acre to .8 acres.

A full acre lot is actually a good find in most cities.
________________________

This being said, in a city, an acre is a great gift. Out in the wilderness, it is, indeed, crap on a shiny stick.

A 40 acre lot out in a swamp isn't bad - but I'll agree about 80 or more acres.

However, give them a time limit to do something with it, or lose it all.
Cifer
06-05-07, 10:30 AM I don't want to be a poop here, but in most cities, a standard lot is anywhere from 1/8 of an acre to .8 acres.

A full acre lot is actually a good find in most cities.
You're absolutely correct. The problem is that it's not in a city, but in a swamp in the middle of nowhere so you don't exactly have high real estate prices. More specifically, I'd expect the marshes to work on a "Claim as much as you can defend for free" basis.
Darakhoranon
06-05-07, 11:09 AM That�s how I understand it, too.
One acre in the middle of the Shadow Marches? Who cares? If I wanted that swamp, I�d just kick out everyone (and everything) I didn�t want there... It�s not as if anyone would object - or care enough to even consider objecting.
Now, if there were dragonshards, that would definitely change things (and might make whoever "granted" the land to the characters rethink...).
But with only a RUN-DOWN shack? Come on, lvl 1 or 2 PCs might (just MIGHT) be impressed - for about 10 seconds... Every sane being with even a hint of power would just shrug and say:"One acre in the swamp? Great. Now, where�s my drink?"

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Adamaro23 05-30-07, 07:10 PM	After reading a thread in What's A Player to Do?, i've come here to ask all of you this: If while playing in Eberron, your DM has rewarded you party with 1 acre of land somewhere towards the middle of the Shadow Marches with a broken down shack on it, what would you (as a player) do with it? I'm going to be doing this with my group soon, and was wondering how players would feel about owning a shack in a swamp. What would you do with it? It will serve as a base, a safe place for your group. In addition to this assume your group has an airship, would you still find the shack useful as a base? Also if you did'nt have an airship how would you go about getting to your property in the Shadow Marches? (without it being too much trouble) I'm just wondering how others veiw this idea from a players point of veiw.
cancerousmango 05-30-07, 07:22 PM	An acre in the Shadow Marches? Level the shack, put up a tower for the airship. With a Lyre of Building, it shouldn't take long at all. Ward it against monsters with a wall or some glyphs of warding, as the Marches are crawling. Really search the place for dragonshards, on the off-chance that they're there. Being in a swamp may cause trouble, but a solid foundation along with a couple rope riggings tied to tall, sturdy trees should keep it up nicely. Trade with the local orcs: you can buy baubles and niceties in Sharn and fly them there, charging a certain percentage more from the orcs. You could also rent the tower out for airship docking purposes, charge a hefty fee for resupplies. House Lyrandar may take exception to this, but give it a try. REMEMBER: LYRE OF BUILDING!
Edymnion 05-30-07, 07:25 PM	One lousy acre? Dude, thats average house lot size. The Eldeen Reaches are bigger than california. A hundred acres is a reward, one lousy acre with a shack is a freaking slap in the face...
cancerousmango 05-30-07, 07:32 PM	One lousy acre? Dude, thats average house lot size. The Eldeen Reaches are bigger than california. A hundred acres is a reward, one lousy acre with a shack is a freaking slap in the face... 43,560 square feet isn't bad at all. With a little extradimensional work, you could fit a lot there. But seriously, if you need a house that's bigger than a football field, you're just greedy.
retillin 05-30-07, 10:22 PM	Yeah sorry, 1 acre is not much land at all. Something closer to 80-100 would be a better gift. And so that you dont think that's too huge, I grew up on 80 acre and now live in the city. 80 was just right, couldnt see the next house, and it's enough land to hunt/grow some food. So I would give them some more and build a tower like Cancerousmango said. Once they get higher level you could make a few circles of telportations. Or (I cant remember what they are called), there are one use magical items that bring you back to a single place. Word of Recall I think? Anyways just a few idea. Have a good one.
Edymnion 05-30-07, 10:34 PM	43,560 square feet isn't bad at all. With a little extradimensional work, you could fit a lot there. But seriously, if you need a house that's bigger than a football field, you're just greedy.Its in the middle of the freaking Eldeen Reaches. What are you going to do in the middle of the wilderness with a speck of land that isn't big enough to make food, isn't big enough to hunt, it isn't big enough to do anything but put a 2 bedroom house on with enough of a front yard to look pretty. In the middle of the freaking Eldeen Reaches. There is no support structure in place. There are no grocery stores, there are no jobs, there is no way to support yourself on one lousy acre in the middle of virgin forest. Hunting and gathering would require you to leave your property, at which point you might as well only have a few hundred square feet that you own. An acre is only a valuable piece of real-estate in developed cities. This may be too southern of a referance for everyone, but have you ever heard "Gonna go plow the lower 40"? It is referring to a single field that takes up 40 acres. Any serious farm would cover hundreds of acres, while the most prosperous farms took up THOUSANDS of acres. A single square mile is 640 acres. A plot of land small enough that you could walk from one end to the other in under 10 minutes is 640 acres. Seriously, an acre in the middle of the wilderness isn't worth the time and effort just to get to it, much less trying to actually build anything on it. Sell it off to a druid or something and let them make a bonsai garden out of it.
Adamaro23 05-31-07, 12:57 AM	see, i wanna basicly base this 1 acre off of Louisiana swamps, if you leave your 1 acre no one's going to care. Idon't really expect people to build a mansion out in the middle of a swamp, just maybe fix up the poor abandoned shack, possibly turn it into a nice little house. I understand how big 1 acre is, i used to live on 12 of them. it seemed pretty huge. So basicly they own a shack, since no-one cares about land boundries, it's in a swamp, it probably isn't even marked. It's more-or-less a hideout in the wilderness away from civilization, a place to go to when your'e tired of the city. Or wanted. Thanks for all the input so far :) , just trying to see how players may respond to this.
Adamaro23 05-31-07, 01:01 AM	Any serious farm would cover hundreds of acres, while the most prosperous farms took up THOUSANDS of acres. A single square mile is 640 acres. A plot of land small enough that you could walk from one end to the other in under 10 minutes is 640 acres. who said it was a farm? also how fast are you walking? it took me an hour to walk my 12 acres and back. Like i said in my above post, it's more-or-less a shack, not as much as the 1 acre. Also how is everyone figuring that the Shadow Marches are in the Eldeen Reaches? i'm aware of the Gatekeepers being there, but is it really considered part of the Reaches?
retillin 05-31-07, 02:51 AM	The only problem I see outside of trying to get there and back, is how easy it would be for some rampaging moster or a small group of orcs or something to come in and just take over while they are gone. As a player, I wouldnt be that into it untill higher level where I had the magic to protect it.
Luis_Dragunov 05-31-07, 07:55 AM	I would smack the DM on the back of the head and ask for my *******ed magic battle axe.
Edymnion 05-31-07, 12:40 PM	who said it was a farm?The size of a farm is for referance.also how fast are you walking? it took me an hour to walk my 12 acres and back.So it took you an hour to walk 12 acres. Sounds like 10 minutes to walk an acre to me.Like i said in my above post, it's more-or-less a shack, not as much as the 1 acre.Then why give them any land at all? Just give them the shack. My point was that an acre of land is meaningless. If you're going to give them a shack, give 'em the shack and don't worry about the land. If you're going to give them land that they can build on and improve, then give them enough land that they can actually use it for something.Also how is everyone figuring that the Shadow Marches are in the Eldeen Reaches?I'm sorry, that one was my fault, somewhere between reading and posting I got my wildernesses mixed up.
Lancer2010 05-31-07, 07:03 PM	I know what I'd do. First, fix up said shack. Next, hire me a band, put up some signs, and then add a fat half-orc with a Cajun accent. Some mighty fine eats and good music? We got us a swinging blues joint. My Gaurantee!
Edymnion 05-31-07, 08:03 PM	Of course, it is the Shadow Marches. Long as you back it up with force of arms, you can pretty much claim as much land as you want as yours.
korcheck 06-01-07, 05:39 PM	My question is why are they getting the property and who from? If it's from a poor village they saved and it say on the outskirts of said village then the size makes sense. If it's smack in the middle of BFE for no other reason then to give them a hide-out then make it a bit bigger. If you want to be a bit funny about it before you tell them where it is make a big deal about this beautiful scenic plot of land they are recieving as a reward in front of an audience and how hard it is to get a bit of land of your own complete with a nice flowery speech then after everyone is gone give them the title to the land and a free one way trip out to it. the look on there face as you discribe this desolate local will be classic. :D
Gurv 06-02-07, 04:27 PM	Sounds like a slap in the face to me. An acre is about 208 feet on a side, if perfectly square (requiring fourteen rounds to cross, assuming trackless swampland...less than a minute if there is a road). It could be impressive if the land had any value...but if it's in the middle of nowhere with nothing but a shack on it, I wouldn't say it does. Owning such a spot could be more burden than boon, if the PCs have to pay taxes on it, or if they're legally expected to farm or otherwise develop it. Of course, a dozen adventure ideas spring to mind. The land could turn out to be extremely valuable, if there are dragonshards (there must be a reason someone would build the shack). There could also be daelkyr ruins and/or access to Khyber somewhere on the plot. A manifest zone. A dryad with some spellcasting ability rooted down who is willing to be an ally as long as she is kept safe. And once it becomes known that the PCs got more than expected, the giver of the land might have second thoughts... cancerousmango: why would PCs with a lyre of building, airship access, and the ability to do "extradimensional work" even visit a 1-acre piece of swamp? That would be like giving Bill Gates an old PC I saved from going to the dump...if he's willing to come pick it up himself.
Edymnion 06-02-07, 05:57 PM	cancerousmango: why would PCs with a lyre of building, airship access, and the ability to do "extradimensional work" even visit a 1-acre piece of swamp? That would be like giving Bill Gates an old PC I saved from going to the dump...if he's willing to come pick it up himself.Yes, anybody with the resources to command airships and mages with enough might to make extradimensional fortresses would be among the most influential and powerful people in the setting. Really, think about it. You're rewarding somebody thats wearing clothes that cost more than all of the houses on your street, and you're going to reward him by giving him $20.
gelalshawr 06-02-07, 06:08 PM	The size of a farm is for referance.So it took you an hour to walk 12 acres. Sounds like 10 minutes to walk an acre to me. A single square mile is 640 acres. A plot of land small enough that you could walk from one end to the other in under 10 minutes is 640 acres. Umm, either you made a typo Edy... or you can't even keep your own stories straight.
Edymnion 06-02-07, 06:21 PM	Umm, either you made a typo Edy... or you can't even keep your own stories straight.Well, the 640 acres per square mile is from google, so thats right. And yeah, the other is a typo. 12 acres an hour, thats 12 acres in 60 minutes, so he's actually walking an acre in 5 minutes, not 10.
gaerfindel 06-02-07, 08:56 PM	All of this is gleaned from Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_units), btw. An acre is an area of land that can be plowed by one man behind one ox in one day. It is typically one furlong--or "furrow-length"--long by one chain, usually defined as four rods, or 22 feet. Since the soil properties determine the length of a furrow, an acre actually varies in size depending on its location. Heavier, rockier soil means a short furrow, and thus a smaller acre. A rood is a quarter-acre--one furlong by one rod; about a quarter-day's work behind the plow. An oxgate (also called a bovate) is the amount of land plowed by that same ox in a single season--about 15 roods. A virgate is twice that, a season's plowing by two oxen or 30 roods, while a carucate is four times a virgate, 120 roods (30 acres)--in other words, what eight oxen can plow in a single plowing season. Now, on to administrative units: A hide is a unit of yeild, rather than area. Its definded as the amount needed to support one household; typically four to eight oxgates in size. A Knight's Fee is roughly five hides, and is the minimum needed to support & equip one knight for a year's service. It was of course in surplus to the hides of the tenant farmers who plowed, sowed, and reaped the Fee's acres. A wapentake, more commonly called a hundred, is 100 hides grouped together for administrative purposes. Now let us suppose that some Marcher lordling grants the PCs "land enough to equip and maintain 20 good fighting men (2nd level warriors) for the defense whereof." This means area enough to provide 100 hides, plus area enough to support the tenants who shall maintain that hundred. (The soldiers shall be too busy training, patrolling, and fighting to plow, sow, and reap.) Let's assume that a fifth of the land under plow is forfit to the troops. This means an additional four hundreds-worth of land, each which can vary in size from 400 to 800 oxgates, or 1500 to 3000 acres. Which, again, can themselves vary in size due to the soil qualities of the Marches. All told, we are talking about an possible area of up to 3600 acres--an area 60 furlongs (roughly 7.5 miles) "square". (Mind you, none of this assumes the use of the Raincallers' Guild or any other form of magic to increase yeild, which can get damned expensive.) But this is the Marches; you don't get much in the way of land that can be plowed by a team of oxen or tribex or what-have-you. You can farm he land by building up raised beds--say about a rood each, in size--with canals in between providing both water & access via canoe, and go from there. More practically, the PCs should probably pay the Prospector's Guild to locate any rich dragonshard deposites and fund their "twenty fighting men" from the profits.
Cifer 06-04-07, 07:42 AM	More specifically, assuming the acre is a square, you can run around it within about 70 seconds, or 7 combat turns. Or you could, assuming it wasn't in a freaking swamp which bogs down your movement rates... So there's two possibilities: Either they have to stay on their land, in which case it's useless - or they can claim land around them, meaning that the granting of the one acre is meaningless.
Ryoden_Anariavas 06-04-07, 09:15 AM	As a player I would need some heavy reason to stay on the "lousy one-acre" in the middle of the swamps. Unless you play on making it have some permenant expensive feature that is worth paying attention to then you are not realy giving the PCs anything that they couldnt get for 500gp in Middle Dura.
korcheck 06-04-07, 10:51 AM	ada, could you please view my previous post and answer those questions it may help us out alot.
Malruhn 06-04-07, 10:35 PM	One lousy acre? Dude, thats average house lot size. The Eldeen Reaches are bigger than california. A hundred acres is a reward, one lousy acre with a shack is a freaking slap in the face... I don't want to be a poop here, but in most cities, a standard lot is anywhere from 1/8 of an acre to .8 acres. A full acre lot is actually a good find in most cities. ________________________ This being said, in a city, an acre is a great gift. Out in the wilderness, it is, indeed, crap on a shiny stick. A 40 acre lot out in a swamp isn't bad - but I'll agree about 80 or more acres. However, give them a time limit to do something with it, or lose it all.
Cifer 06-05-07, 10:30 AM	I don't want to be a poop here, but in most cities, a standard lot is anywhere from 1/8 of an acre to .8 acres. A full acre lot is actually a good find in most cities. You're absolutely correct. The problem is that it's not in a city, but in a swamp in the middle of nowhere so you don't exactly have high real estate prices. More specifically, I'd expect the marshes to work on a "Claim as much as you can defend for free" basis.
Darakhoranon 06-05-07, 11:09 AM	That�s how I understand it, too. One acre in the middle of the Shadow Marches? Who cares? If I wanted that swamp, I�d just kick out everyone (and everything) I didn�t want there... It�s not as if anyone would object - or care enough to even consider objecting. Now, if there were dragonshards, that would definitely change things (and might make whoever "granted" the land to the characters rethink...). But with only a RUN-DOWN shack? Come on, lvl 1 or 2 PCs might (just MIGHT) be impressed - for about 10 seconds... Every sane being with even a hint of power would just shrug and say:"One acre in the swamp? Great. Now, where�s my drink?"