Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Arcane Guyver 02-24-05, 01:57 AM	Semi-spoilers for those playing through Whispers of the Vampire's Blade. Warning: if any of my players read this, I WILL humiliate your character somehow. (And by humiliation I mean a rematch with the pyrohydra. I WILL do it, too. :evillaugh ) Alrighty. I've had my players go through the published Eberron adventures, including Fallen Angel between Shadows and Whispers. It's all gone rather smoothly - even using half XP. Now it's coming back to bite me in the butt. I plunged ahead into Whispers, thinking the players could handle it. And they have, to a point. They are now almost level 4, and past the airship battle (which very nearly finished them off). I took extra care to prepare the last two chapters, and noticed just how dangerously powerful the final guy is. I know for certain that the characters will be absolutely no match for him. Having a PC massacre in the middle of nowhere is sort of an anti-climactic end to this, though I'm sure I could continue the adventure with a few new characters (and some seriously miffed players, I imagine). Any suggestions?
Lord Psynister 02-24-05, 08:42 AM	Well, you could always throw in more random encounters before they get there. You could have them fight large groups of CR 1-3 monsters/NPCs, or just keep on throwing them up against things they're closer to in levels. See if you can boost them up another level before they get there. If the final battle's going to be too hard, then either weaking the boss, or strengthen the PCs. That, or throw in some NPC help (generally a bad idea) or have another player join in. You could always drop in some more powerful equipment too. Either stronger weapons/armor, or potions/scrolls that will give them a hand.
Kid SixXx 02-24-05, 09:21 AM	If they need to rest, just have the Lightning Rail ride go on for longer than it should so that the party has time to build back to full strength. Don't worry about Lucan. The module has the provision that will gimp Lucan's combat as the Soul Blade will compel him to fight with the sword instead of using his extremely dangerous vampiric attacks. Have your PC's though about using Lucan's sister or enlisting her aid to bring her brother in peacefully? The module doesn't have to end in a fight, you know. ;)
Cloud Divider 02-24-05, 11:46 AM	Alrighty. I've had my players go through the published Eberron adventures, including Fallen Angel between Shadows and Whispers. It's all gone rather smoothly - even using half XP. Now it's coming back to bite me in the butt. I plunged ahead into Whispers, thinking the players could handle it. And they have, to a point. They are now almost level 4, and past the airship battle (which very nearly finished them off). I took extra care to prepare the last two chapters, and noticed just how dangerously powerful the final guy is. I know for certain that the characters will be absolutely no match for him. Yeah. I picked up WotVB after skimming through it and realizing it would dovetail reasonably well with my campaign (even though I'm not using any of the other Schema modules). And I wanted to see how a lightning rail and airship ride were handled. But that last encounter...Whew! Scary. I have a hard time imagining how a 4th level party (who've had to fight through everything else to get to there) is going to be able to survive that encounter without invoking some serious Deus Ex Machina (or wasting a week recovering between encounters - I doubt The Bad Guy will bother to wait). But like you, I was also thinking about posting a question here on "how can I run this, and not kill everyone..." Having a PC massacre in the middle of nowhere is sort of an anti-climactic end to this, though I'm sure I could continue the adventure with a few new characters (and some seriously miffed players, I imagine). Any suggestions? To tell you the truth, I'd been tempting to go with a fairly major rewrite of that final encounter to explicitly try to avoid the fight. There's wording that says that The Bad Guy has managed to wrest his own free will back from the things that were controlling him; that he certainly doesn't like what he did, and DEFINITELY doesn't like what he is. I think he'd be going very much out of his way to try and avoid losing control again (up to and including not using the sword). So if I were to run it, I think I'd change it so that final chamber/throne room actually faces East (does the sun rise in the East on Eberron..?), and is open to the outside (to allow the king to survey his kingdom from the comfort of his throne). His plan, hatched during this moment of clarity, will be to watch that last sunrise (...and thereby commit suicide). Throw in a good angsty speech ("Tell my sister that...I'm sorry"). It seems a fairly fitting place for him to end - sitting on the throne of a dead kingdom, surrounded by the sarcophagi of long-dead servants. PC's could then try and talk him out of it (unlikely, but hey...that's what high-powered AP-boosted Diplomacy checks are for), but honestly, what lies in his future otherwise? Though a vampiric superspy could be useful, I doubt his superiors will take him back in his compromised state (as he still may be in the thrall of Calderus). He certainly doesn't want to go back to Calderus. Maybe the Dark Lantern has a magic item that would help (like an alignment reversing doodad, or something that'd improve his resistance to mind-affecting effects). Something that might be cool - go with the big-window throne room, and have the PC's arrive just prior to sunrise (enough time for some dialogue, and a few rounds of combat). Maybe he'll put up a good fight, but he's intentionally not trying to kill the PCs - just waste enough time for sunrise. For a little extra drama, maybe he'll go back and forth between trying not to kill the PC's (when he's lucid), and trying to (when he's being Dominated again). Maybe he'll be shifting in-and-out of his vampiric visage (Buffy-style) as he fights this inner battle. He may have a reason for ultimately sparing the PCs. The Dark Lanterns still don't know what happened to him. He may see the PC's as the fulfillment of his Last Mission (to inform the Lanterns of Calderus' organization). So they MUST survive to relay the news. But he, he's as good as dead...
Arcane Guyver 02-24-05, 01:31 PM	Thank you guys for your ideas here. I'm running it tonight, so I'm sort of last-minute rushing to get things straight. Having the sword reclaim Lucan is a good idea to nerf him a bit...and after reading the module through a couple times, I like the idea of Lucan not just being a BBEG to kill, but a man who's been on the run and controlled by so many he's willing to accept any help offered (he hasn't been particularly nasty to the PCs as of yet, just running away and killing those NPCs that get in his way). Grilsha's still around...I guess she could help negotiations along (though the party's a bit sore at her for a very lethal fireball back during the road chase). Oh, Cloud Divider - if you're going to run the adventure, you'll have to modify the train encounter a bit. As written, it's the Lord of Blades trying to claim the schema, which the PCs denied him twice at that point.
Cloud Divider 02-24-05, 02:52 PM	I like the idea of Lucan not just being a BBEG to kill, but a man who's been on the run and controlled by so many he's willing to accept any help offered (he hasn't been particularly nasty to the PCs as of yet, just running away and killing those NPCs that get in his way). Yes. The impression I got from reading is that Lucan used to be a fairly good guy (maybe not capital-G Good), but certainly a far cry from the monster that he's become. It's certainly a good fit for a darker, noir tone to throw in some exposition about how Lucan used to be a good guy (if the PCs have Grilsha, she'd make a pretty good source); but powers far beyond his control have warped him horribly. Try to buy a little sympathy (good guy, but who got himself into a really bad position. A little moral dilemma about what to do with him could be quite interesting... Grilsha's still around...I guess she could help negotiations along (though the party's a bit sore at her for a very lethal fireball back during the road chase). Heh. Well, those things do happen... It's certainly in the plausible realm of "just a misunderstanding." I forget what Grilsha's alignment is, but as far as she knows, she's helping her brother escape (from someone...), and the PC appear to be the ones doing much of the chasing. Oh, Cloud Divider - if you're going to run the adventure, you'll have to modify the train encounter a bit. As written, it's the Lord of Blades trying to claim the schema, which the PCs denied him twice at that point. Yeah, I was aware of that. It shouldn't be too big of a deal, however. I figure that my players will make more than enough enemies between now and then. The hardest part will just be deciding who to pick... (I still find it a little bit of a stretch to have the fleshie-hating LoB assault team paired up with some halfling glidewing riders). The lightning rail chase might actually get used separately - it'll fit in fairly nicely with what I'm currently planning for the next session or two. And for that, the LoB and his followers may just have a part to play...
ekomega 02-24-05, 11:11 PM	If you have a bard in the party, and they make a reasonable bardic knowledge check, you could have them know about the damage reduction of vampires. Then they could buy weapons, possibly with the letters of credit that Viorr gave them. There are two train stops on the way that provide ample opportunity. My PCs had a bit of trouble with him, not wanting to buy magical silver weapons. So they bought like 50 holy waters and alchemist fire's and the like. It was nuts how much damage they could do in one round just pelting him over and over. His touch AC is low enough that a fighter with good Dex will be able to get him almost every wound, and with spell enhancements he should have no problem. If you don't want them to fight him, there are good alternatives. But remember, as a vampire his alignment is a certain way, regardless of what he was before the change. And he has no idea why the PCs are chasing him. Maybe they want to kill him, you know? They've been after him for days.
Arcane Guyver 02-25-05, 02:46 AM	Well, I probably worried too much. Despite their level, they managed to ravage most of the ziggurat (couldn't get into the Crypt, though). I actually had Grilsha join the party after the train battle (the players could have taken her out, but they didn't...good thing...). She helped them out in track down Lucan. They ran into him in the Ascention room, trying to weigh his options, and since Grilsha was with them, he didn't attack immediately. He seemed in control of himself, willing to be taken in...but then the soulblade took over again. Lucan started attacking everyone, Grilsha included. Things somehow worked out, and Lucan begged to be (and was) staked in a moment of clarity (less than 5 hp, anyways). Yay for things working out! It was still plenty dangerous, though the train encounter came closer to TPK. Now, what to do with Grilsha...I sort of like her, and the players seem ok with her, despite their rocky introduction....
bromleylaerchenheim 03-03-05, 10:37 AM	I am currently running this module with my 7 people 4-5th level each party. I slightly adjust all encounters to make them challenging to the party and gave Lucan and Grilsha 2 extra levels. And yes, Lucan IS powerfull. The group met the couple four times. During the chase in the beginning, Grilsha mostly immobalized the approaching party with spells and they both got away easily. On the masquerade ball, the party mostly was witnessing Lucans battle against some NPCs and got a glimpse of his power when he drains a level out of a guard and when his sword strikes down another. For some reasons, they believe that the blade is a live stealer who sucks souls. It was the bards idea and now everybody is totally frightened. During the fight on the cloudships they saw Lucan and Grilsha killing some Emerald Claw soldiers while trying to leave the plummenting ship. What a dramatic scene...! Somehow they managed not to board the lightning rail and decided to follow by horse. Surprisingly they met the rail the same time when the warforged/halfling attacked them (remark: I found it rather unlikely that 'forged brainwashed by the LotB will align with fleshy halflings...). It was really cinematic when both partys, the 'forged and the group, try to hop on the rail while battling beside on horseback, on and in the train with each other. And of course, the forged stop the train. Grilsha make her stand, killing a forged with a lightning bold but then was flanked between a forge and our druid and gets killed ehrself with one crit blow from the orkish druids club. Than Lucan appears, gaseous, behind our group and killed our elven rogue with one blow (below minus 10 unfortunatly). The very next round, he struck down our paladin with two blows and the druid the round thereafter. Only luck and braking holes in windows and the ceiling of the wagon, enabling dusk sunlight entering the cabin, saved the live of the others. In fact, they now have a fairly good impression of their main villian. And they really trouble how to get hand on him. And they believe, that the rogue cannot be resurrected because his soul is trapped in the sword... I must really say, that I love this mod <madly evil laugh> but I consider Guyvers idea for the last stand a really good alternative and cool story ending.
Doctor X 03-03-05, 06:17 PM	Yeah... when I first read about the final encounter, it seemed pretty nasty. But then I saw the insanity on the way to the Ziggurat, and saw that the party would have earned massive experience by then. Especially considering that the following module is written for a 6th-level party, it semed that they should hit level 5 before they even get into the Ziggurat. Make sure to award them the experience they deserve as they earn it, and not withold it until the end of the module, like some DM's like to do... And if they're still at 4 before they go in, give them RP experience, and let them level up. There is no way they'll survive the end if you don't. One thing that really helps, though, is having a warforged in the group. Being immune to Lucan's energy and blood draining, they make a very suitable main melee guy during the battle. Artificers are also nice to have, to, because of the Weapon Augmentation infusions. Our artificer gave the warforged bull's strength, made his greatsword undeadbane, and poured silversheen on it for good measure. He actually put Lucan down rather quickly.
bromleylaerchenheim 03-10-05, 10:55 AM	just keep you in the loop - if anybody cares... :) My group entered the ziggurat (at this point reduced to 5 5th level PCs). They really had lots of trouble with the cloaker. They let me play out almost all of his tricks before they finally noticed how to deal with him. They even fired three successive rounds with arrows, magic and whatever on one of his silent images before realizing an illusion... mwahahha. The centipedes drove them mad and the short but hard fight with the minotaur zombie take its toll. At the end they have to retreat from the ziggurat to recover. And because they had some experiences they still have lots of respect for Lucan...