Last names? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Last names? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dalmuti
08-26-05, 05:23 PM I know I read it somewhere, but I can't remember where. How do the last names work in Eberron. What to the Ir and the de mean?
Raziel_Brokodar
08-26-05, 05:31 PM Well, d'______ means you are a member of a dragonmarked house, and carry a dragonmark as well... Just having the house name means that you are just a member of the house/family... I think... :P
Salla
08-26-05, 05:35 PM 'ir' means you're a member of one of the noble-but-not-dragonmarked houses.
'd' means you're a member of a dragonmarked house *and* you have an appropriate (non-Aberrant) Dragonmark.
If your last name is just the name of a DMarked house, you're in that house but don't have a dragonmark.

So, to use who characters from around here, Alan Deneith is a member of House Deneith, but lacks a dragonmark, whereas Lya d'Jorasco is a member of House Jorasco with a Mark of Healing.
a_psh
08-26-05, 07:09 PM ECS pg. 138 is the reference you're looking for.

It seems to be board convention that the "d" is only for Dragonmarked members of the Houses (I think this comes mainly from AKB and the novels?). That sidebar in ECS doesn't specifically say that: instead, it claims that the "d" is for all blood members of the Houses, i.e. everyone born into a House rather than related by marriage, adoption, or what have you. (This is just as important to keep track of as who actually has a mark, since it is a way of remembering who in the House has the fancy-pants bloodline, which, after the War of the Mark, is veeery important.)

I think either version of the naming rules is fine.

Given that "novels = canon?" is an icky debate to get into, I'd like to know if there are any sources of information related to this "d" convention in the gamebooks or Dragonshards web articles, or in the AKB threads. I know it's commonly accepted, but I cannot find an actual reference anywhere, and I can't remember where this first came up. If anyone could satisfy my curiosity, I'd be much obliged.
Kid SixXx
08-26-05, 07:17 PM I know I read it somewhere, but I can't remember where. How do the last names work in Eberron. What to the Ir and the de mean?

You probably asked this because of the gaffes in the ExH, correct?

The dwarven station master's name in the Points of Origin chapter should simply be Ivor Throthenhome, not Ivor d'Throthenhome. There is also an NPC named Lady Elspeth d'Wrallin, who should probably be Lady Elspeth ir'Wrallin
Majorafire77
08-27-05, 06:19 PM How would I, as a player, know when to put ir' in front of my last name and when not to? Is there an official list of noble houses that aren't dragonmarked, or would I just plop it in front of my last name and see if people laugh or not when I say it?

I know that there are ir'Wynarns and ir'Tains. What other families are there?
Kid SixXx
08-27-05, 06:40 PM I know that there are ir'Wynarns and ir'Tains. What other families are there?

Bah, you would ask a really tough question.

I know that there is an additional noble family in Aundair named ir'Galantyr in addition to the ir'Lains (I think you said ir'Tain when you meant ir'Lain), but the best person to ask would be Hellcow.
Cloud Divider
08-27-05, 06:41 PM How would I, as a player, know when to put ir' in front of my last name and when not to?
Do you belong to a noble bloodline? Was your father Lord Suchandsuch, granted title (and maybe lands)? Then you can be <Name> ir'Suchandsuch.

Is there an official list of noble houses that aren't dragonmarked, or would I just plop it in front of my last name and see if people laugh or not when I say it?
Generally speaking, yeah. Make it up as you go. If you want to claim to be a nobleman from the Suchandsuch bloodline, go for it. Just hope there's not someone who knows better.

I know that there are ir'Wynarns and ir'Tains. What other families are there?
There's a bunch. As far as my campaign goes, I've been throwing around noble titles pretty much when I felt like it. A few weeks ago, I had a young Brelish nobleman, Dannik ir'Volken. Some nations may be going through a period of "titles for sale" - ie give the King enough money, and he'll give you a title. So folks who used to be merchants now get to be nobility, and so forth.

Whether your GM lets you be a nobleman and go as PC ir'Suchandsuch because you want to, is another question altogether.
Doji_Kentaro
08-28-05, 01:08 AM For my character I added the ir' to his last name to represent that his family did something very important in the past to earn it despite being a smaller and lesser noble family. Considering the campaign, it's worked out quite well.
KP91
08-28-05, 01:14 AM S:CoT says there are I think 62 noble families, or is that only in Breland? Something like that, I'm just too lazy to go and look at the book.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple
08-28-05, 01:28 AM Those are just the 62 families that the ir'Tains invite to their monthly gala (Interrestingly enough, the Boromars are in the 62 Families). It's entirely possible for there to be a noble family with a residence in Sharn that NEVER recieves an invitation to the gala, but it would be a grievous snub and that family would likely be "noble" in title only (much like, I'm told, Princess Diana, although English Noble by bloodline, was a middle class babysitter before she became Princess... if I have my facts wrong, I'm sorry... I was never much of a celebrophile :P).
Deadguy
08-28-05, 01:37 AM I find that Eberron does tend to underestimate the actual number of noble families that a society produces. Amidst the millions in Breland, say, there's room for several hundred noble bloodlines, of varying degrees of wealth and power, without it seeming 'topheavy'. Especially as, much as happened in Europe in more recent centuries, noble titles are awarded to those who help the state in important endeavours. The Last War may well have wiped out some older bloodlines, but it created the impetus to create so many more.

Khorvaire is also odd in that it doesn't seem to have any grades of nobility. You are either noble or you're not. No breakdown by grade,as for example, Barons, say, versus Counts and Dukes. Perhaps that's something that Galifar I wanted to destroy?
cmanos
08-29-05, 07:18 AM de does not mean you have a dragonmark. It just means you are from a line that has the POTENTIAL to carry a dragonmark.
ieattrollsforbreakfast
08-29-05, 07:40 AM de does not mean you have a dragonmark. It just means you are from a line that has the POTENTIAL to carry a dragonmark.

By the ECS, yes. However, in the glossary of City of Towers, the rules have changed so that only marked members have the d' prefix.
Also remeber that marked characters won't only posses the house's name. Savia d'Ilyana is a dragonmarked individual and heir of House Vadalis of the Ilyana line. However, to most people she is known as Savia d'Vadalis.
a_psh
08-29-05, 10:39 AM Those are just the 62 families that the ir'Tains invite to their monthly gala (Interrestingly enough, the Boromars are in the 62 Families). It's entirely possible for there to be a noble family with a residence in Sharn that NEVER recieves an invitation to the gala, but it would be a grievous snub and that family would likely be "noble" in title only (much like, I'm told, Princess Diana, although English Noble by bloodline, was a middle class babysitter before she became Princess... if I have my facts wrong, I'm sorry... I was never much of a celebrophile :P).
Each Brelish noble family in Sharn and all of the Dragonmarked Houses have permanent invitations to the ir'Tain Gala (i.e. they are all part of the Sixty). However, there's also room for others (such as Javan Tomollan). This implies that there no more than 20 or 30 Brelish noble families with some presence in Sharn.

I'm not sure how many noble families exist in Breland as a whole, as I can't really extrapolate just from this number.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple
08-30-05, 12:53 AM Hmmm... that number did seem a bit off. Oh well, I stand corrected. Still, I do like the idea of the ir'Tains snubbing a family because of a grievous (And intentional) social error made by a changeling posing as a member of one of the families in The Sixty...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dalmuti 08-26-05, 05:23 PM	I know I read it somewhere, but I can't remember where. How do the last names work in Eberron. What to the Ir and the de mean?
Raziel_Brokodar 08-26-05, 05:31 PM	Well, d'______ means you are a member of a dragonmarked house, and carry a dragonmark as well... Just having the house name means that you are just a member of the house/family... I think... :P
Salla 08-26-05, 05:35 PM	'ir' means you're a member of one of the noble-but-not-dragonmarked houses. 'd' means you're a member of a dragonmarked house and you have an appropriate (non-Aberrant) Dragonmark. If your last name is just the name of a DMarked house, you're in that house but don't have a dragonmark. So, to use who characters from around here, Alan Deneith is a member of House Deneith, but lacks a dragonmark, whereas Lya d'Jorasco is a member of House Jorasco with a Mark of Healing.
a_psh 08-26-05, 07:09 PM	ECS pg. 138 is the reference you're looking for. It seems to be board convention that the "d" is only for Dragonmarked members of the Houses (I think this comes mainly from AKB and the novels?). That sidebar in ECS doesn't specifically say that: instead, it claims that the "d" is for all blood members of the Houses, i.e. everyone born into a House rather than related by marriage, adoption, or what have you. (This is just as important to keep track of as who actually has a mark, since it is a way of remembering who in the House has the fancy-pants bloodline, which, after the War of the Mark, is veeery important.) I think either version of the naming rules is fine. Given that "novels = canon?" is an icky debate to get into, I'd like to know if there are any sources of information related to this "d" convention in the gamebooks or Dragonshards web articles, or in the AKB threads. I know it's commonly accepted, but I cannot find an actual reference anywhere, and I can't remember where this first came up. If anyone could satisfy my curiosity, I'd be much obliged.
Kid SixXx 08-26-05, 07:17 PM	I know I read it somewhere, but I can't remember where. How do the last names work in Eberron. What to the Ir and the de mean? You probably asked this because of the gaffes in the ExH, correct? The dwarven station master's name in the Points of Origin chapter should simply be Ivor Throthenhome, not Ivor d'Throthenhome. There is also an NPC named Lady Elspeth d'Wrallin, who should probably be Lady Elspeth ir'Wrallin
Majorafire77 08-27-05, 06:19 PM	How would I, as a player, know when to put ir' in front of my last name and when not to? Is there an official list of noble houses that aren't dragonmarked, or would I just plop it in front of my last name and see if people laugh or not when I say it? I know that there are ir'Wynarns and ir'Tains. What other families are there?
Kid SixXx 08-27-05, 06:40 PM	I know that there are ir'Wynarns and ir'Tains. What other families are there? Bah, you would ask a really tough question. I know that there is an additional noble family in Aundair named ir'Galantyr in addition to the ir'Lains (I think you said ir'Tain when you meant ir'Lain), but the best person to ask would be Hellcow.
Cloud Divider 08-27-05, 06:41 PM	How would I, as a player, know when to put ir' in front of my last name and when not to? Do you belong to a noble bloodline? Was your father Lord Suchandsuch, granted title (and maybe lands)? Then you can be <Name> ir'Suchandsuch. Is there an official list of noble houses that aren't dragonmarked, or would I just plop it in front of my last name and see if people laugh or not when I say it? Generally speaking, yeah. Make it up as you go. If you want to claim to be a nobleman from the Suchandsuch bloodline, go for it. Just hope there's not someone who knows better. I know that there are ir'Wynarns and ir'Tains. What other families are there? There's a bunch. As far as my campaign goes, I've been throwing around noble titles pretty much when I felt like it. A few weeks ago, I had a young Brelish nobleman, Dannik ir'Volken. Some nations may be going through a period of "titles for sale" - ie give the King enough money, and he'll give you a title. So folks who used to be merchants now get to be nobility, and so forth. Whether your GM lets you be a nobleman and go as PC ir'Suchandsuch because you want to, is another question altogether.
Doji_Kentaro 08-28-05, 01:08 AM	For my character I added the ir' to his last name to represent that his family did something very important in the past to earn it despite being a smaller and lesser noble family. Considering the campaign, it's worked out quite well.
KP91 08-28-05, 01:14 AM	S:CoT says there are I think 62 noble families, or is that only in Breland? Something like that, I'm just too lazy to go and look at the book.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 08-28-05, 01:28 AM	Those are just the 62 families that the ir'Tains invite to their monthly gala (Interrestingly enough, the Boromars are in the 62 Families). It's entirely possible for there to be a noble family with a residence in Sharn that NEVER recieves an invitation to the gala, but it would be a grievous snub and that family would likely be "noble" in title only (much like, I'm told, Princess Diana, although English Noble by bloodline, was a middle class babysitter before she became Princess... if I have my facts wrong, I'm sorry... I was never much of a celebrophile :P).
Deadguy 08-28-05, 01:37 AM	I find that Eberron does tend to underestimate the actual number of noble families that a society produces. Amidst the millions in Breland, say, there's room for several hundred noble bloodlines, of varying degrees of wealth and power, without it seeming 'topheavy'. Especially as, much as happened in Europe in more recent centuries, noble titles are awarded to those who help the state in important endeavours. The Last War may well have wiped out some older bloodlines, but it created the impetus to create so many more. Khorvaire is also odd in that it doesn't seem to have any grades of nobility. You are either noble or you're not. No breakdown by grade,as for example, Barons, say, versus Counts and Dukes. Perhaps that's something that Galifar I wanted to destroy?
cmanos 08-29-05, 07:18 AM	de does not mean you have a dragonmark. It just means you are from a line that has the POTENTIAL to carry a dragonmark.
ieattrollsforbreakfast 08-29-05, 07:40 AM	de does not mean you have a dragonmark. It just means you are from a line that has the POTENTIAL to carry a dragonmark. By the ECS, yes. However, in the glossary of City of Towers, the rules have changed so that only marked members have the d' prefix. Also remeber that marked characters won't only posses the house's name. Savia d'Ilyana is a dragonmarked individual and heir of House Vadalis of the Ilyana line. However, to most people she is known as Savia d'Vadalis.
a_psh 08-29-05, 10:39 AM	Those are just the 62 families that the ir'Tains invite to their monthly gala (Interrestingly enough, the Boromars are in the 62 Families). It's entirely possible for there to be a noble family with a residence in Sharn that NEVER recieves an invitation to the gala, but it would be a grievous snub and that family would likely be "noble" in title only (much like, I'm told, Princess Diana, although English Noble by bloodline, was a middle class babysitter before she became Princess... if I have my facts wrong, I'm sorry... I was never much of a celebrophile :P). Each Brelish noble family in Sharn and all of the Dragonmarked Houses have permanent invitations to the ir'Tain Gala (i.e. they are all part of the Sixty). However, there's also room for others (such as Javan Tomollan). This implies that there no more than 20 or 30 Brelish noble families with some presence in Sharn. I'm not sure how many noble families exist in Breland as a whole, as I can't really extrapolate just from this number.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 08-30-05, 12:53 AM	Hmmm... that number did seem a bit off. Oh well, I stand corrected. Still, I do like the idea of the ir'Tains snubbing a family because of a grievous (And intentional) social error made by a changeling posing as a member of one of the families in The Sixty...