LG Powers/Spells vs. Neutral Alignment [Archive] - Wizards Community

LG Powers/Spells vs. Neutral Alignment [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
omgwtfPally
02-19-06, 12:37 PM So here is my question/problem

I play a very specialized paladin in Eberron. My character is made to combat evil in all forms and is very powerful against evil aligned foes. The DM, gets very aggrivated when he takes time to cook up an evil NPC, only to be completely annihalated by me and my friends.
To stop us, he started setting up situations where a demon, devil, or evil aligned higher power was "hiring" neutral NPC's to fight us, thus nullifying all of our special attacks/powers/spells made for combating with evil. We bawked at these NPC's of course.
How can he justify an NPC party attacking an obvious "goodly" party (Paladin, LG Cleric, LG monk, LG Ranger CN sorceror) by using ignorance as an excuse? Ignorance to what and why they are fighting or guarding something.

I think, if NPC's attack a LG character, they should be suseptible to their powers against evil, as long as they provoke the conflict.

I look forward to DM feedback of all kinds please.

thanks!
jonthegm
02-19-06, 01:03 PM So here is my question/problem

I play a very specialized paladin in Eberron. My character is made to combat evil in all forms and is very powerful against evil aligned foes. The DM, gets very aggrivated when he takes time to cook up an evil NPC, only to be completely annihalated by me and my friends.
To stop us, he started setting up situations where a demon, devil, or evil aligned higher power was "hiring" neutral NPC's to fight us, thus nullifying all of our special attacks/powers/spells made for combating with evil. We bawked at these NPC's of course.
How can he justify an NPC party attacking an obvious "goodly" party (Paladin, LG Cleric, LG monk, LG Ranger CN sorceror) by using ignorance as an excuse? Ignorance to what and why they are fighting or guarding something.

I think, if NPC's attack a LG character, they should be suseptible to their powers against evil, as long as they provoke the conflict.

I look forward to DM feedback of all kinds please.

thanks!
Hmm... I've attacked my (admittedly a mix of LG, CG, and Neutral parties) with Paladin-led squads, and some of their better patrons have an evil alignment (thankfully, no one has cast detect evil on a few key NPCs yet...)

However, the theme of my current campaign is "I'm not the only one talking in my brain." So things tend to happen...
omgwtfPally
02-19-06, 01:12 PM I see what you mean jon, but even though you have two groups of "goodly" parties combating, do you allow use of their powers on each other?

say a sword with the "holy" enhancement on it, or a good aligned spell? Or are all the abilities neutralized for that encounter?
Obezageip
02-19-06, 08:21 PM Nope, if the creatures aren't evil, they don't become evil for attacking a paladin.

And a CN mercenary could verywell exist, he wouldn't butcher civlians and such, but an uppity paladin might be a fair target. And you might be able to talk things over (anybody in your party have diplomacy?) in such a situation, if played right.

Though if I was a DM in your campaign, in order to give the PCs besides the paladin/cleric in the party a chance to thrive, there are much easier ways to do it. Elementals and constructs come to mind, so do summoned animals, and dominated people presents an interesting angle, and allows you to be heroic by breaking the domination effect and saving them.

And the evil people can always do the same thing against you, magic circle against good/blasphemy/unholy weapons/smite good all come to mind.
ChimericalWolf
02-19-06, 09:02 PM I respectfully disagree, Pally.

As Obezageip said, you could easily have Neutral Moral people working for Evil, and those people wouldn't be affected by Anti-Evil abilitys.

I would caution the DM not to over-use these abilitys. Your choices of specialization should come into play, but just because you specialized doesn't mean that every enemy should be tailored to fall under your Holy Sword.
jonthegm
02-21-06, 01:49 PM Correct, I never let Smite Evil work on a non-evil character.

My PCs ran afoul of a paladin, who was convinced that they were evil. When the (admittedly Neutral) artificer/fleshwarper sassmouthed him, and the Lawful Good fighter stepped in to defend him, the paladin turned around and used Smite Evil on her without checking (I have ruled that it is slightly obvious when a paladin is using Detect Evil, as they have to stop and concentrate for at least 6 seconds[for a yes/no] or up to 18[for exact pinpoint] seconds). He wasn't pleased that she didn't get smote.

However, the PCs had arrived at the same time as a vampire, so the Paladin was sure that they were either dominated or working for the Vampire, no matter their status as far as good/evil goes.

Also, I borrowed from the OotS a bit with a cursed magic item that's attached itself to one of the party members that gives off an Evil aura, just as if the character was Evil. (Though she also detects as Good, because she is, but paladins don't have access to that)
Temjinstrife
02-21-06, 06:03 PM If your character becomes frustrated with his inability to deal with these threats, he may decide to become a Shadowbane Inquisitor. These paladin/rogues become able to smite any foe designated as "corrupt," which can be any foe. Not only does this create an interesting character concept, but it fits well in Eberron and your current situation, and is definitely an idea to look into if your character is frustrated.
Dragom
02-21-06, 06:53 PM The funky thing in Eberon is that alignment is blurrier then usual.

You can't say a soldier who kills people is evil and You can't say that a cleric of a good god with a powerful goodly magical aura isn't evil.

And I don't think anyone has seriously used the excuse "but they where evil" to explain the reason for a fight after puberty.

However a reason like:
"Now listen, no ones going to pay me 20 bucks an hour to guard a vault that doesn't have a lich's reliquiery in it, I got kids and one to many wives at home, Why don't you just pick up and go before I crack you over the head with this glowy macey thing I have that I don't really know how to use!"
:Makes a bit more sense.
omgwtfPally
02-22-06, 08:51 PM All this advice is very helpful. As I said before, I created a very specific type of Paladin, so the other angles mentioned are a huge help in fully understanding the situation. Hopefully my DM just cuts down on the seemingly never ending Neutral Mercs.

Or maybe he is trying to let some of the other party members shine a little. Paladins can tend to take control of things after all. ;)
darkthought
02-22-06, 09:19 PM All this advice is very helpful. As I said before, I created a very specific type of Paladin, so the other angles mentioned are a huge help in fully understanding the situation. Hopefully my DM just cuts down on the seemingly never ending Neutral Mercs.

Or maybe he is trying to let some of the other party members shine a little. Paladins can tend to take control of things after all. ;)

Well, this is an inherent problem when super-specializing. If I specialize in something, I don't expect my DM to make every encounter tailored to my specializations. Hell, that LOWERS the difficulty of the encounter. I admit it's fun to put your special abilities to use, but remember that there are other people at the table too.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
omgwtfPally 02-19-06, 12:37 PM	So here is my question/problem I play a very specialized paladin in Eberron. My character is made to combat evil in all forms and is very powerful against evil aligned foes. The DM, gets very aggrivated when he takes time to cook up an evil NPC, only to be completely annihalated by me and my friends. To stop us, he started setting up situations where a demon, devil, or evil aligned higher power was "hiring" neutral NPC's to fight us, thus nullifying all of our special attacks/powers/spells made for combating with evil. We bawked at these NPC's of course. How can he justify an NPC party attacking an obvious "goodly" party (Paladin, LG Cleric, LG monk, LG Ranger CN sorceror) by using ignorance as an excuse? Ignorance to what and why they are fighting or guarding something. I think, if NPC's attack a LG character, they should be suseptible to their powers against evil, as long as they provoke the conflict. I look forward to DM feedback of all kinds please. thanks!
jonthegm 02-19-06, 01:03 PM	So here is my question/problem I play a very specialized paladin in Eberron. My character is made to combat evil in all forms and is very powerful against evil aligned foes. The DM, gets very aggrivated when he takes time to cook up an evil NPC, only to be completely annihalated by me and my friends. To stop us, he started setting up situations where a demon, devil, or evil aligned higher power was "hiring" neutral NPC's to fight us, thus nullifying all of our special attacks/powers/spells made for combating with evil. We bawked at these NPC's of course. How can he justify an NPC party attacking an obvious "goodly" party (Paladin, LG Cleric, LG monk, LG Ranger CN sorceror) by using ignorance as an excuse? Ignorance to what and why they are fighting or guarding something. I think, if NPC's attack a LG character, they should be suseptible to their powers against evil, as long as they provoke the conflict. I look forward to DM feedback of all kinds please. thanks! Hmm... I've attacked my (admittedly a mix of LG, CG, and Neutral parties) with Paladin-led squads, and some of their better patrons have an evil alignment (thankfully, no one has cast detect evil on a few key NPCs yet...) However, the theme of my current campaign is "I'm not the only one talking in my brain." So things tend to happen...
omgwtfPally 02-19-06, 01:12 PM	I see what you mean jon, but even though you have two groups of "goodly" parties combating, do you allow use of their powers on each other? say a sword with the "holy" enhancement on it, or a good aligned spell? Or are all the abilities neutralized for that encounter?
Obezageip 02-19-06, 08:21 PM	Nope, if the creatures aren't evil, they don't become evil for attacking a paladin. And a CN mercenary could verywell exist, he wouldn't butcher civlians and such, but an uppity paladin might be a fair target. And you might be able to talk things over (anybody in your party have diplomacy?) in such a situation, if played right. Though if I was a DM in your campaign, in order to give the PCs besides the paladin/cleric in the party a chance to thrive, there are much easier ways to do it. Elementals and constructs come to mind, so do summoned animals, and dominated people presents an interesting angle, and allows you to be heroic by breaking the domination effect and saving them. And the evil people can always do the same thing against you, magic circle against good/blasphemy/unholy weapons/smite good all come to mind.
ChimericalWolf 02-19-06, 09:02 PM	I respectfully disagree, Pally. As Obezageip said, you could easily have Neutral Moral people working for Evil, and those people wouldn't be affected by Anti-Evil abilitys. I would caution the DM not to over-use these abilitys. Your choices of specialization should come into play, but just because you specialized doesn't mean that every enemy should be tailored to fall under your Holy Sword.
jonthegm 02-21-06, 01:49 PM	Correct, I never let Smite Evil work on a non-evil character. My PCs ran afoul of a paladin, who was convinced that they were evil. When the (admittedly Neutral) artificer/fleshwarper sassmouthed him, and the Lawful Good fighter stepped in to defend him, the paladin turned around and used Smite Evil on her without checking (I have ruled that it is slightly obvious when a paladin is using Detect Evil, as they have to stop and concentrate for at least 6 seconds[for a yes/no] or up to 18[for exact pinpoint] seconds). He wasn't pleased that she didn't get smote. However, the PCs had arrived at the same time as a vampire, so the Paladin was sure that they were either dominated or working for the Vampire, no matter their status as far as good/evil goes. Also, I borrowed from the OotS a bit with a cursed magic item that's attached itself to one of the party members that gives off an Evil aura, just as if the character was Evil. (Though she also detects as Good, because she is, but paladins don't have access to that)
Temjinstrife 02-21-06, 06:03 PM	If your character becomes frustrated with his inability to deal with these threats, he may decide to become a Shadowbane Inquisitor. These paladin/rogues become able to smite any foe designated as "corrupt," which can be any foe. Not only does this create an interesting character concept, but it fits well in Eberron and your current situation, and is definitely an idea to look into if your character is frustrated.
Dragom 02-21-06, 06:53 PM	The funky thing in Eberon is that alignment is blurrier then usual. You can't say a soldier who kills people is evil and You can't say that a cleric of a good god with a powerful goodly magical aura isn't evil. And I don't think anyone has seriously used the excuse "but they where evil" to explain the reason for a fight after puberty. However a reason like: "Now listen, no ones going to pay me 20 bucks an hour to guard a vault that doesn't have a lich's reliquiery in it, I got kids and one to many wives at home, Why don't you just pick up and go before I crack you over the head with this glowy macey thing I have that I don't really know how to use!" :Makes a bit more sense.
omgwtfPally 02-22-06, 08:51 PM	All this advice is very helpful. As I said before, I created a very specific type of Paladin, so the other angles mentioned are a huge help in fully understanding the situation. Hopefully my DM just cuts down on the seemingly never ending Neutral Mercs. Or maybe he is trying to let some of the other party members shine a little. Paladins can tend to take control of things after all. ;)
darkthought 02-22-06, 09:19 PM	All this advice is very helpful. As I said before, I created a very specific type of Paladin, so the other angles mentioned are a huge help in fully understanding the situation. Hopefully my DM just cuts down on the seemingly never ending Neutral Mercs. Or maybe he is trying to let some of the other party members shine a little. Paladins can tend to take control of things after all. ;) Well, this is an inherent problem when super-specializing. If I specialize in something, I don't expect my DM to make every encounter tailored to my specializations. Hell, that LOWERS the difficulty of the encounter. I admit it's fun to put your special abilities to use, but remember that there are other people at the table too.