Lightning Rail carts are HUGE! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Lightning Rail carts are HUGE! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ekomega
02-11-06, 01:02 PM Anyone else notice how big the Lightning Rail is? The cargo cart is 35' W x 120' L x 20' H! The cart is 4200 square feet, which is bigger than most homes. Most modern trains are like 10' wide? Maybe 15'? This thing is gargantuan. Not at all what I thought of when I think of trains. It's like 10 moving houses that go 30 mph. I think I'm going to make them smaller for my game.

This is all from Explorer's Handbook.
MarkB
02-11-06, 01:09 PM Personally, I like that they're not exactly like trains - they should have their own look and feel. Their mode of support and motivation are different, so their design should be different as well.
Roxlimn
02-11-06, 01:41 PM Yup, they're fairly massive.

No, I don't see a problem with that.

You can make them more like trains in your campaign if you like.
DoveArrow
02-12-06, 03:42 PM Well first, you have to recognize that D&D uses 5 ft. squares, and as a result, a lot of things represented in game are going to be larger than their counterparts in real life. For example, in real life, your average guest bedroom is about 12 ft. X 12 ft. In D&D, that's about the size of a double bed, or a horse. Yeah, that's a bit ridiculous, but if you don't accept that things in game are almost always going to be larger than their counterparts in real life, you're going to be in for some pretty cramped combats.

Incidentally, an article you should take a look at is the Proud Nails (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060120a) article written by Jesse Decker and David Noonan. It's pretty funny, and they even talk about the size thing when it comes to horses.
Edymnion
02-12-06, 04:47 PM Yeah, but real world trains are constrained by the width of two horses' butts.
No, seriously. The width of train tracks today is the same as the width of the old world wagon wheel ruts, which were widely enough spaced for a 2 horse team.

Eberron doesn't have that problem. Its using magic, the things can be as big as you want them to be. Hence, they're pretty darned big.
Beleriphon
02-12-06, 04:59 PM Yeah, but real world trains are constrained by the width of two horses' butts.
No, seriously. The width of train tracks today is the same as the width of the old world wagon wheel ruts, which were widely enough spaced for a 2 horse team.

Eberron doesn't have that problem. Its using magic, the things can be as big as you want them to be. Hence, they're pretty darned big.

To expand on that:

The Saturn 5 rocket is the width is is because it has to be transported by train. Train tracks are the same width as British trolley tracks. British trolleys were built by British cart builders. British carts have the same wheel base as the tracks on old roads in Britain. Old roads in Britain were build by the Romans. The Roman roads are the width they are because they standardized chariot wheel spacing. So thus one of the most advanced vehicles in the world is constrained to its current size by a 2000 year old bureaucracy.

As for size, I imagine that by taking a 4600 square foot space and cramming as many people into it as possible, then charging 5 cp per min you can turn a heft profit.
one_winged_angel720
02-12-06, 05:00 PM Hehe, before deciding to shrink the size of the lightning rail car, try holding a skirmish inside it at your new diminished dimensions....Not fun, huh? I went through the same thing in planning a railway heist adventure and realized that I really did prefer them to be bigger. It's hard to be heroic when you can't swing your sword for fear of decapitating another passenger...
Nom
02-12-06, 06:27 PM Anyone else notice how big the Lightning Rail is? The cargo cart is 35' W x 120' L x 20' H!Curious. The carts given in Whispers of the Vampire's Blade are 12 squares x 5 squares (plus balcony), or 60 ft. x 25 ft. The roof area is 35 ft. wide, so it's possible this applies to cargo carts as well.

It does seem clear that the carts are wider than a modern train, since the lounge cart has room to fit two round dining tables plus a central corridor next to each other. That said, I doubt they need a full 5 ft. for the corridor or 10 ft. for each table - my hallway at home is only about 3 ft. wide, and a round dining table with 4 chairs will fit very easily in a 10 ft. x 10 ft. room.
Edymnion
02-12-06, 08:42 PM To expand on that:

The Saturn 5 rocket is the width is is because it has to be transported by train. Train tracks are the same width as British trolley tracks. British trolleys were built by British cart builders. British carts have the same wheel base as the tracks on old roads in Britain. Old roads in Britain were build by the Romans. The Roman roads are the width they are because they standardized chariot wheel spacing. So thus one of the most advanced vehicles in the world is constrained to its current size by a 2000 year old bureaucracy.Yup :)
I was just too lazy to type it all out tonight :P
Mind Flayer Monk
02-12-06, 09:01 PM @ Beliriphon-
Is that from Connections or some James Burke book (the Axemakers Gift maybe) sounds like a familiar story
Malruhn
02-12-06, 09:42 PM Unfortunately, it is also a load of bunk. :rolleyes: :(

According to Snopes, rail tracks had very little to do with horses' behinds or anything else...

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.htm

For your reading enjoyment and eventual enlightenment. :cool:

And I agree - the Lightning Rail carts are HUGE!!
Temjinstrife
02-13-06, 12:37 AM It's ok... everything in Eberron is huge. Train cars with more floor space than my house... flying boats the size of football fields... and at least three continents the size of Asia or larger. Even the characters are huge, with six-foot-plus 350 lb. adamantine-bodied warforged that would make even a heavy horse stagger under their weight.

The only thing I truly have a problem with is the sheer geographical size of the world, as it takes an ungodly long time to get from one city to the next, even if they're only an inch apart on the map. Even by rail or airship. Caravans, horses, and the like are even worse... and don't even bother trying to walk anywhere. It makes the critical "race across the continent to stop the bad guys" a one-month escapade... so much for urgency.
Kalanth
02-13-06, 01:03 AM I go with multiple sizes for the lightning rail trains. The passenger trains are the "Fat Whales" of the fleet, wanting to snag more money by shipping more people. There are also large scale cargo trains for the same reason, but each of these are slower than the slimmer "Express Trains." When you need cargo their in a hurry, but have no need or ability to get the Airships to take it, the express trains are the standard train size and go roughly twice as fast. Gives me an option for all occassions, but I would hate to force the small trains on the players when it came to combat. The size constraints would be hell.
Gez
02-13-06, 04:50 AM I go with multiple sizes for the lightning rail trains.

Indeed, since lightning rail trains hover over just one track, they aren't limited by the same considerations as real trains that must sit on two tracks. So standardization of sizes isn't necessary -- a same train could use a different width for every wagon (its aerodynamism would suffer, but there's otherwise no technical problems with it).
Joni-san
02-14-06, 08:42 AM Yeah, but real world trains are constrained by the width of two horses' butts.

I'm pretty that's a Urban Legend. I looked up on Snopes but all I found was this (http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.htm).

EDIT: Seems I got in too late. *Note to self: Always read the thread first*
lukelightning
02-14-06, 09:36 AM Yup, that whole railroad/roman chariots/modern stuff is a myth. The first time I saw that reference (in an annoying forwarded email) I immediately said "MYTH!" The whole story reeks of urban legend.

Of course, in Eberron the story goes like this:

Believe it or not, but the width of the Lightning Rail cars are related to the size of a certain bronze dragon! (Which is why it is really called "Lightning Rail"). You see, back in the day before the Lightning Rail there was a bronze dragon who appeared in Cyre (this was, of course, well before the Mourning). This dragon was particularly belligerent and threatened the whole region. Eventually a band of heroes found the dragons lair, confronted it, and killed it. They looted the dragon's treasure but also decided to bring its body back to town to research it. So they build a gigantic wagon. It was larger than the path they had used to get there, so they had to clear a wide path back to town; it was a huge undertaking but people realized how useful this wide "highway" would be, so they joined in the construction. After the dragon's body was brought back people maintained this road, which became the first Lightning Rail path when the LR was invented.
loconius
02-16-06, 05:51 PM Fun heroic battles on trains, are you serious!?! The last time I got into a huge bar room style brawl on an Amtrak was a chaotic mess; you couldn't throw a decent punch to save your life. And besides the fact that I was hyped up on dopamine, and imagined the whole thing; I’m thoroughly convinced that all fights onboard trains [in d20 modern] require regular tumble checks or Dexterity checks!!!

...wait, who still uses battle mats for the cinematic fighting of Eberron anyway? I would have figured they would have had a special option play with out feats like bulrush and eliminate movement provoked attacks of opportunity… I think I may still be on dopamine.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ekomega 02-11-06, 01:02 PM	Anyone else notice how big the Lightning Rail is? The cargo cart is 35' W x 120' L x 20' H! The cart is 4200 square feet, which is bigger than most homes. Most modern trains are like 10' wide? Maybe 15'? This thing is gargantuan. Not at all what I thought of when I think of trains. It's like 10 moving houses that go 30 mph. I think I'm going to make them smaller for my game. This is all from Explorer's Handbook.
MarkB 02-11-06, 01:09 PM	Personally, I like that they're not exactly like trains - they should have their own look and feel. Their mode of support and motivation are different, so their design should be different as well.
Roxlimn 02-11-06, 01:41 PM	Yup, they're fairly massive. No, I don't see a problem with that. You can make them more like trains in your campaign if you like.
DoveArrow 02-12-06, 03:42 PM	Well first, you have to recognize that D&D uses 5 ft. squares, and as a result, a lot of things represented in game are going to be larger than their counterparts in real life. For example, in real life, your average guest bedroom is about 12 ft. X 12 ft. In D&D, that's about the size of a double bed, or a horse. Yeah, that's a bit ridiculous, but if you don't accept that things in game are almost always going to be larger than their counterparts in real life, you're going to be in for some pretty cramped combats. Incidentally, an article you should take a look at is the Proud Nails (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060120a) article written by Jesse Decker and David Noonan. It's pretty funny, and they even talk about the size thing when it comes to horses.
Edymnion 02-12-06, 04:47 PM	Yeah, but real world trains are constrained by the width of two horses' butts. No, seriously. The width of train tracks today is the same as the width of the old world wagon wheel ruts, which were widely enough spaced for a 2 horse team. Eberron doesn't have that problem. Its using magic, the things can be as big as you want them to be. Hence, they're pretty darned big.
Beleriphon 02-12-06, 04:59 PM	Yeah, but real world trains are constrained by the width of two horses' butts. No, seriously. The width of train tracks today is the same as the width of the old world wagon wheel ruts, which were widely enough spaced for a 2 horse team. Eberron doesn't have that problem. Its using magic, the things can be as big as you want them to be. Hence, they're pretty darned big. To expand on that: The Saturn 5 rocket is the width is is because it has to be transported by train. Train tracks are the same width as British trolley tracks. British trolleys were built by British cart builders. British carts have the same wheel base as the tracks on old roads in Britain. Old roads in Britain were build by the Romans. The Roman roads are the width they are because they standardized chariot wheel spacing. So thus one of the most advanced vehicles in the world is constrained to its current size by a 2000 year old bureaucracy. As for size, I imagine that by taking a 4600 square foot space and cramming as many people into it as possible, then charging 5 cp per min you can turn a heft profit.
one_winged_angel720 02-12-06, 05:00 PM	Hehe, before deciding to shrink the size of the lightning rail car, try holding a skirmish inside it at your new diminished dimensions....Not fun, huh? I went through the same thing in planning a railway heist adventure and realized that I really did prefer them to be bigger. It's hard to be heroic when you can't swing your sword for fear of decapitating another passenger...
Nom 02-12-06, 06:27 PM	Anyone else notice how big the Lightning Rail is? The cargo cart is 35' W x 120' L x 20' H!Curious. The carts given in Whispers of the Vampire's Blade are 12 squares x 5 squares (plus balcony), or 60 ft. x 25 ft. The roof area is 35 ft. wide, so it's possible this applies to cargo carts as well. It does seem clear that the carts are wider than a modern train, since the lounge cart has room to fit two round dining tables plus a central corridor next to each other. That said, I doubt they need a full 5 ft. for the corridor or 10 ft. for each table - my hallway at home is only about 3 ft. wide, and a round dining table with 4 chairs will fit very easily in a 10 ft. x 10 ft. room.
Edymnion 02-12-06, 08:42 PM	To expand on that: The Saturn 5 rocket is the width is is because it has to be transported by train. Train tracks are the same width as British trolley tracks. British trolleys were built by British cart builders. British carts have the same wheel base as the tracks on old roads in Britain. Old roads in Britain were build by the Romans. The Roman roads are the width they are because they standardized chariot wheel spacing. So thus one of the most advanced vehicles in the world is constrained to its current size by a 2000 year old bureaucracy.Yup :) I was just too lazy to type it all out tonight :P
Mind Flayer Monk 02-12-06, 09:01 PM	@ Beliriphon- Is that from Connections or some James Burke book (the Axemakers Gift maybe) sounds like a familiar story
Malruhn 02-12-06, 09:42 PM	Unfortunately, it is also a load of bunk. :rolleyes: :( According to Snopes, rail tracks had very little to do with horses' behinds or anything else... http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.htm For your reading enjoyment and eventual enlightenment. :cool: And I agree - the Lightning Rail carts are HUGE!!
Temjinstrife 02-13-06, 12:37 AM	It's ok... everything in Eberron is huge. Train cars with more floor space than my house... flying boats the size of football fields... and at least three continents the size of Asia or larger. Even the characters are huge, with six-foot-plus 350 lb. adamantine-bodied warforged that would make even a heavy horse stagger under their weight. The only thing I truly have a problem with is the sheer geographical size of the world, as it takes an ungodly long time to get from one city to the next, even if they're only an inch apart on the map. Even by rail or airship. Caravans, horses, and the like are even worse... and don't even bother trying to walk anywhere. It makes the critical "race across the continent to stop the bad guys" a one-month escapade... so much for urgency.
Kalanth 02-13-06, 01:03 AM	I go with multiple sizes for the lightning rail trains. The passenger trains are the "Fat Whales" of the fleet, wanting to snag more money by shipping more people. There are also large scale cargo trains for the same reason, but each of these are slower than the slimmer "Express Trains." When you need cargo their in a hurry, but have no need or ability to get the Airships to take it, the express trains are the standard train size and go roughly twice as fast. Gives me an option for all occassions, but I would hate to force the small trains on the players when it came to combat. The size constraints would be hell.
Gez 02-13-06, 04:50 AM	I go with multiple sizes for the lightning rail trains. Indeed, since lightning rail trains hover over just one track, they aren't limited by the same considerations as real trains that must sit on two tracks. So standardization of sizes isn't necessary -- a same train could use a different width for every wagon (its aerodynamism would suffer, but there's otherwise no technical problems with it).
Joni-san 02-14-06, 08:42 AM	Yeah, but real world trains are constrained by the width of two horses' butts. I'm pretty that's a Urban Legend. I looked up on Snopes but all I found was this (http://www.snopes.com/history/american/gauge.htm). EDIT: Seems I got in too late. Note to self: Always read the thread first
lukelightning 02-14-06, 09:36 AM	Yup, that whole railroad/roman chariots/modern stuff is a myth. The first time I saw that reference (in an annoying forwarded email) I immediately said "MYTH!" The whole story reeks of urban legend. Of course, in Eberron the story goes like this: Believe it or not, but the width of the Lightning Rail cars are related to the size of a certain bronze dragon! (Which is why it is really called "Lightning Rail"). You see, back in the day before the Lightning Rail there was a bronze dragon who appeared in Cyre (this was, of course, well before the Mourning). This dragon was particularly belligerent and threatened the whole region. Eventually a band of heroes found the dragons lair, confronted it, and killed it. They looted the dragon's treasure but also decided to bring its body back to town to research it. So they build a gigantic wagon. It was larger than the path they had used to get there, so they had to clear a wide path back to town; it was a huge undertaking but people realized how useful this wide "highway" would be, so they joined in the construction. After the dragon's body was brought back people maintained this road, which became the first Lightning Rail path when the LR was invented.
loconius 02-16-06, 05:51 PM	Fun heroic battles on trains, are you serious!?! The last time I got into a huge bar room style brawl on an Amtrak was a chaotic mess; you couldn't throw a decent punch to save your life. And besides the fact that I was hyped up on dopamine, and imagined the whole thing; I’m thoroughly convinced that all fights onboard trains [in d20 modern] require regular tumble checks or Dexterity checks!!! ...wait, who still uses battle mats for the cinematic fighting of Eberron anyway? I would have figured they would have had a special option play with out feats like bulrush and eliminate movement provoked attacks of opportunity… I think I may still be on dopamine.