Post/Author/DateTime	Post
icemanjmw 06-24-04, 11:42 PM	Is there somewhere, either in the ECS or otherwise to find a listing of the Lightning Rail cost by mile or something. Sorry if it's out in the open and I missed it, but I've been looking since the book was released.
Ch@pel 06-24-04, 11:56 PM	Page 121, in the table under Services and Spellcasting, 10 lines from the bottom. 5 sp per mile, if you don't feel like looking. I wonder if someone studious could come up with a basic chart that says how much it would cost to go from each individual station to the next. It would make calculating it much easier. Also, can you just jump off the rail? It's only going 30mph... Do you pay when you get on or when you get off? With they stop to let you on or off at any point on the rail? It seems to me like, if you have to pay at the end of the trip, you could just get on, then jump off just outside your destination. You couldn't more than a couple times before they catch on, though.
icemanjmw 06-25-04, 02:12 AM	Thanks for pg reference Ch@pel, I had this feeling it was somewhere and I was just missing it. Also, can you just jump off the rail? It's only going 30mph... Do you pay when you get on or when you get off? With they stop to let you on or off at any point on the rail? It seems to me like, if you have to pay at the end of the trip, you could just get on, then jump off just outside your destination. You couldn't more than a couple times before they catch on, though. My personal stance would be that you must pay for a "ticket" before you get on, and it gets checked at various intervals. Also, even if you aren't worried about the speed of the train for jumping off, you could rule that the magical force between the stones is dangerous to people.
kildaere007 06-25-04, 03:33 AM	Also be aware that Keith and the design team are looking into the costs for the lightning rail, as they are just a tad over expensive. At 5 sp/mile it would cost a group of 4 adventurers about 1000gp to go the short distance from Wroat to Sharn! Look for the cost to be adjusted in errata.
Ath'kethin 06-25-04, 08:32 AM	Hmm. This seems perfectly reasonable to me. Not everyone can afford to use the Lightning Rail, and it's not like it's the only means of transportation a person has. You don't want to pay the 1000 gp fare? Fine; walk or ride a horse.
RaynerApe 06-25-04, 09:05 AM	I don't see the price of the lightning train being based only the transportation service from one place to another, but also the additional services and luxury, such as free food, merchandise and never forget the social effect (you can meet face to face with high-ranked individuals as they travel with the train and sometimes afford a meeting that otherwise would be nigh to impossible). Now, if the train becomes not just a means of transportation but lifestyle and political stage, your characters would gladly even pay 10sp/mile to ride the train when they need it.
Captain One 06-25-04, 09:21 AM	Don't forget the safety aspect too. It is much safer than travelling across a countryside. Not to say the train is totally safe (some cool stuff will definitely happen on it in my campaign.) but it is better than travelling through the woods.
icemanjmw 06-25-04, 10:44 AM	One of the more interesting aspects of the Lightning Rail, or Airship for that matter, is that it gives you a chance to keep the characters on track without really seeming like you're railroading them (is that a bad pun?). For example let's say my party in town A and needs to deliver something to an offical in town B. If the lightning rail connects these two places you can just allow the NPC to give them a free boarding pass for that trip only, that way you can eliminate the need for all that walking. Too often long walks either turn into marathon sessions themselves, or end up with me saying "gee nothing happened the 6 days you all walked, lucky you". Alternate transportation really provides a nice alternative.
RaynerApe 06-25-04, 11:33 AM	Speaking of free boarding pass, I just came up with the idea of a sort of guarantee that the characters would really want to deliver the item: how about the employer gives the characters a debt document that allows them to use the train for free but are required to pay the transport fee within a time period, otherwise [put economic/bureauctratic/mercenary harm here]. When the characters deliver the item, the receiver takes their papers and pays the transport fee debt instead them. If they didn't bring the item within the time period, they would be pressed to cover the expenses of the travel on their own, including whatever dangers that might bring upon them.
pallen_97 06-25-04, 12:27 PM	Originally posted by Ath'kethin Hmm. This seems perfectly reasonable to me. Not everyone can afford to use the Lightning Rail... Actually early on in the book, it's stated that just about everyone can afford to take the lightning rail from one city to the next. Typo?
kildaere007 06-25-04, 12:59 PM	Oh, I have no problem with my adventurers paying 1000gp to do a major bit of travel.....but Wroat to Sharn is a relatively SHORT distance. Our group is made up of 6 players so...it is very possible that they could spend upwords of 18,000 gp to travel from one non adjacent county to another..... .....ooops that is a problem! especially when "one" of the points of Eberron is that travel between locales is supposed to be easy and inexpensive. And yes, the lightning rail is not supposed to be just for the ultra rich (you could, of course, have it that way, but that is not the intent). Most normal "middle class" folks should be able to afford a trip to a nearby city. I have faith that the Keith and the design team will adjust this cost.
lostone 06-25-04, 01:00 PM	Without reading the book (it's on order) here's some assumptions I'd make based on real life public transportation like trains and planes: There would be different costs depending on the level of service. The 5sp might be for a luxury, first class ride, with free drinks, gourmet food, live entertainment, etc. Then it might be a few coppers per mile for coach, where you get to share a room with strangers, don't have a bed (you share a couch, like in the Hogwarts Express). Then there would be levels in between, where you can get a private room and bed, less than quality food.
Harmony's Sorrow 06-25-04, 03:39 PM	Like your image... muahahaha! Like your take on Rail Prices even more... 1 - 5 gp/mile = private suite/rooms/whole car 5 sp/mile = private room 1 sp/mile = shared room 5 cp/mile = shared baggage car (Gross, unsanitary?)
icemanjmw 06-25-04, 03:53 PM	I like the idea of different prices, one because it makes it easier for people to get around including my PCs, and two because until the PCs get a lot of money it's an extra potential plot hook. I mean travelling in the poor section they would almost never see the rich people such as nobles, unless..... someone came back looking for someone to help with a questionable act.
RaynerApe 06-25-04, 03:54 PM	Originally posted by Harmony's Sorrow 5 cp/mile = shared baggage car (Gross, unsanitary?) Sharing the same baggage car with a paranoid bum 'shifter, couple of jobless orcs and a serial killer schizoed goblin is a priceless experience.
Ashrem Bayle 06-25-04, 04:52 PM	Originally posted by RaynerApe Sharing the same baggage car with a paranoid bum 'shifter, couple of jobless orcs and a serial killer schizoed goblin is a priceless experience. Or just a kalashtar. He simply sits quietly and looks at you for the duration of the trip. Never says a word, not even "hello". But, before you get off, he suddenly jumps up and says: "You know Guss Aderrson! I met him last week. You know he cheats on his wife don't you...." Nothing worse that a telepathic gossiper.
NSTR 06-25-04, 05:07 PM	Just a thought, IIRC, the lighting rail is also used to transport goods. Maybe the 5 sp mile was for the transportation of goods and not the cost of public transport. Maybe the designers will come up with a different cost system for public transportation.
RaynerApe 06-25-04, 05:13 PM	Wouldn't the Kalashtar simply play with the rail conductor's mind and make them believe he paid for first class while the piece of ticket in his hand could be just a piece of paper? I think that tricks would work for a while before the rail gets some psionic defence against such tricks. Anyway, I think the baggage car would be reserved for the lowest of all poor and scounrels, not someone who can make most people *desire* to give them money or let them in.
RaynerApe 06-25-04, 05:42 PM	Originally posted by NSTR Just a thought, IIRC, the lighting rail is also used to transport goods. Maybe the 5 sp mile was for the transportation of goods and not the cost of public transport. if anything, goods transportation should be cheaper, because you don't need large number of staff personel, hygiene and conditioning, services and entertainment (for luxury travel) and can put more goods than people jam-packed in a good car. Which leads to another question - what about livestock? Do rich farmers get to trandfer expensive livestock (dinosaurs, breeding bulls, etc.)
Ch@pel 06-25-04, 06:21 PM	5 sp/ mile doesn't seem outlandish to me. And how did you come up with 1000gp for a trip from Sharn to Wroat??? By my calculations, Sharn is a little over 500 miles from Wroat, by the Lightning Rail. I used the little distance key at the bottom of the Breland map, it was about 3.15 "segments." Six segments make up 1000 miles, so each segment is about 166.6666 miles. 3.15 segments x 166.66666 mi= 524.9999mi (roughly). 524.9999 mi x 5 sp/mi = 2624.9998 sp/mi. Unless the exchange rate for Sharn is different from the one given in the core books, 10sp equals 1gp. So, 2624.9998 x .10 = 262.4998. All rounded off the final price of the trip is 262 gp. 262 gp per person from Wroat to Sharn doesn't seem unreasonable at all to me, especially with all the benefits that Lightning Rail travel offers over standard methods of transportation. So THIS is why I had to learn algebra... to calculate costs for a fantasy method of transportation in a fictitious world... tell your children. :D If I get some time I'll start a thread with a list of prices for Lightning Rail stops.
Scion of Coldshard 06-25-04, 06:27 PM	so for a four person party it is around 1k gp, I do believe that is what he said earlier ;)
Steven Snyder 06-25-04, 06:40 PM	I have the chart that lists the cost/distance/time from point-to-point around Khorvaire on the Lightning Rail... We really need to get that hosted somewhere...
Ch@pel 06-25-04, 06:48 PM	Oops you're right Scion, my bad. But still, 1000gp for four people to travel just doesn't seem outrageous to me. Especially when they move up in level, prices like that will be no sweat, and just a cost of doing business. EDIT: And Steve Snyder, talk to Jonny O'Neal about putting it on his site. He's got tons of other great Eberron stuff on there. Not to volunteer anyones webspace, or anything...
mad dwarf 06-25-04, 11:18 PM	Thought I'd weigh in on this 5sp/mile thing. if anything, goods transportation should be cheaper, because you don't need large number of staff personel, hygiene and conditioning, services and entertainment (for luxury travel) and can put more goods than people jam-packed in a good car. Just on the cargo cost... Airlines actually make more money from taking cargo than they do passengers. Example, 200lb commuter takes a trip from Melbourne to Sydney and it costs him roughly $70. 200lb package from Melbourne to Sydney is charged $2 per pound... $400. Lots more money to be made on cargo... and when was the last time you saw a cardboard box complain that they didn't get a packet of pretzels?
Doppleganger 06-25-04, 11:44 PM	Originally posted by Steven Snyder I have the chart that lists the cost/distance/time from point-to-point around Khorvaire on the Lightning Rail... We really need to get that hosted somewhere... Oh yes please post, host, or email. I've been working on a khorvaire train schedule, and planning on adding various cargo & seating-class rates, stopover & express schedules, etc. But if you've got something with city-to-city miles already done, I'll need to stop my work!
Senko 06-26-04, 05:50 AM	Anyone for murder on the Khorvaire express? On a related note I really like the varying prices idea to modify the previously posted one somewhat. 5gp/mile = whole car (min number of travllers), excellent food 1gp/mile = private suite with bed, food equivilent to a good inn 5sp/mile = private room 2 couches, food equivilent to a normal inn 1sp/mile = shared room 2 couches on each side, normal rations 5cp/mile = shared room no seating, hard tack and jerky 1cp/mile = hang onto the roof
RobJN 06-26-04, 08:39 AM	I think a sliding scale fare is feasable, however, rather than going on a flat per-mile basis, you may want to do as a rail line such as Amtrak does, and charge per mile/per trip segment for coach, and then just add the sleeper costs above that. (When I checked ~ 5 or so years ago, it was about $250 USD to go halfway across the country coach. A sleeper would have added another ~$250 above that) Checking the prices at Amtrak.com, there are several ways you might want to look at pricing: coach/per mile (a trip from San Francisco to Washington D.C. for four would cost around ~$800 USD and take about three days) Rail services also offer a "pass" program: pay for a 15 or 30 day pass for either certain sections of the nation/continent, or pay a little more for coast-to-coast travel. Now, certainly, you'd add for extras, such as sleeper accomidations, meals (which aren't part of the ticket!), border taxes, etc... Incitendally, speaking of "Murder on the Khorvaire Express"... Look up Broderbund Software's "Last Express" and tell me that is not perfect for an Eberron adventure. Good gaming, Rob