Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jancarius 11-13-05, 03:04 AM	So Lucan. Kind of badass, ain't he? I was advancing all the characters in WotVB to reflect my party's 5 L5 (and high stats and equipment) status, and I looked at Lucan. Really looked. He's going to tear them apart. At the masquerade, he took on Meena, three L4 Aundarian agent monks, the party's L5 monk with REALLY good stats, the party warlock, the party sorcerer all at the same time and was doing just fine. He killed one of the monks, before the party monk and the two remaining ones grappled him. Then I just had him gaseous form and leave the scene. So then they and Meena (the sorcerer is also one of the Aundarian eyes) chased him to the Lyrander tower, they all just barrel through the gnomes, and eventually convince the captain to let Meena, the warlock, the ninja, and the rogue on the ship. The monk is hiding somewhere on the ship (he ran into the ship, but the crew couldn't find him. They plan to toss him over if they catch him... good luck to them with that), and the sorcerer is hiding out with the monk invisible and just hoping the captain doesn't notice he didn't pay for passage. However, I can't see how my party will even SCRATCH Lucan. He's smart, so the first thing he's gonna do in the final fight is kill the Warlock and Sorcerer, the two people who can actually damage him (the ninja can't do **** with that DR and immune to crits, and the monk can't out damage the DR and the FH.) The rogue and her frost daggers will be next, and with his AC and feats, I can't see anyone stopping him, especially since 3 hits and their gone with his energy drain.
Saurenda 11-13-05, 03:27 AM	The Ninja needs some silversheen or an alchemical weapon. A ninja that isn't prepared is no ninja at all. The Rouge needs alchemical fire, or sliversheen herself. There is also the possiblity she can have a few scrolls of scorching ray or flamming sphere. She's in a good position to understand Lucan's thinking. Reminder her that when she is sneaking around or hiding to first advise the sorceror and warlock of what areas of the battlefield to avoid. Afterall int he final encounter Lucan doesn't all out attack until he feels the time is right. Your rouge is the thing that can save your party, she can tell you the best places to hide and sneak attack from. The monk will have the most difficult time. With Lucan's DR and natural heal he'll be able to do so little except grapple. Have him hold lucan down and just hav ethe ninja and rouge continually stab him with silversheened weapons. It is an airship so chances are an expert or magewright is aboard to have a supply of silversheen or an alchemical silver weapon froma follower of the silver flame that the team can buy if you wanna push your Dming a bit.
Jancarius 11-13-05, 04:04 AM	No one in the party (Warlock, Monk, Ninja, Sorcerer, Rogue) has any ranks of knowledge (Religion) however (for that matter, they don't IC really know he's a vampire, even though it slipped out during the masquerade scene), so none of them know to use magic silver weapons (though magic weapons they have aplenty, none are silver). My players are pretty good about not metagaming like that, but none have thought to buy silversheen. The rogue's player is fairly inexperienced. This is her first real campaign, and she is melee phobic, even though I (foolishly) gave her a speed dagger and she's a two weapon fighter, meaning she has like +10/10/10 melee attacks a round. I'm not so worried about the airship encounter with him, where he more or less just takes off, but the final encounter seems unbeatable. Not only does he use tactics, but the soul blade is throwing out confuses. My party knows my prediliction for Enchantment spells and effects, (the monk took Iron Will, just based on this) so most of their Will saves are decent to good for their level. Further, if he gets a Dominate (a 50/50 possibility for the Sorcerer if I used the advanced version of Lucan that I prepared for my larger, stronger party. Sorcerer has +7 Will) off on any party member, the party is not only down a member, but up an opponent. If I were Lucan, I would fight guerilla style. First sign of real trouble, I'd run into that shaft via gaseous form. Wait a minute or so, heal back up, and come back, sneaking in and attacking over and over again. Even if the Sorcerer stays alive, he'll run out of spells. The party will steadily lose HP, because they can't regain it as fast as he can take it (they have a CLW wand, fresh bought, but that will run out over a night of constant battle). Hell, anytime he wants to get away, he just has to hop down that shaft, gaseous form during the fall, and the party will take at least a minute to get to the bottom after him, even with the three soar disks they picked up in Sharn.
MarkB 11-13-05, 04:14 AM	My players had one character with decent Knowledge (religion) ranks, who rolled absolutely terribly to find out about vampires, so they were in much the same position. So I was kind to them, and had some of the Emerald Claw attackers on the airship carrying bottles of Silversheen and Oil of Magic Weapon, ready to use them once they located Lucan.
Jancarius 11-13-05, 04:20 AM	If they fail to search the bodies, then, are they just out o'luck? Scratch the rogue being able to do anything normally either. I was thinking her frost dagger might have helped, but he has Cold Resist 10 too. And he has improved Feint at I would go so far as to say unbeatable for their level Bluff. So he'll get his sneak attacks every round if he wants. Given my party's normal prediliction for thinking outside the box, I expect they'll camp out in the ziggurat (or near the ziggurat) till day, and try and fight him like that. All that really seems to do however is keep him from entering a few squares on the top floor of the Ziggurat. Well, I just remembered that from SotLW they picked up 2 silver sheen vials and an oil of magic weapon. I'll bet you guys $10 they forget they have them.
Saurenda 11-13-05, 07:15 AM	Then it's only prudent that in that time you have them reorganize thier inventory on a seperate sheet of paper and declare specific locations of those items, should they been needed in the coming battle. Think of it as cleaning out your inventory to pass the time. Also if they camp, Lucan will escape. No Doubt. The ziggaraut is not his new condo, he is merely there because the PCs are chasing him. If they rest he'll mist out come nightfall. He has no reason to stay there and await the PCs. He'll become a recurring villian. If Kauis doesn't dominate him in place of his previous master, then he'll be blood chowder.
DarkWarriorKarg 11-13-05, 08:11 AM	No one in the party (Warlock, Monk, Ninja, Sorcerer, Rogue) has any ranks of knowledge (Religion) however (for that matter, they don't IC really know he's a vampire, even though it slipped out during the masquerade scene), so none of them know to use magic silver weapons (though magic weapons they have aplenty, none are silver). My players are pretty good about not metagaming like that, but none have thought to buy silversheen. Well, then... maybe the DM should correct the imbalance? Happen to meet an expert on the subject? Maybe a fellow passenger is a "priest" or a "bard" (Expert level X) with knowledge (Religion). The only melee expert is a monk. The 4 other PCs are redundant with each other (Ninja,rogue) (Warlock, Sorcerer) There is no healer or anyone to keep the vampire at bay (turn undead). Yup. I also predict a TPK if YOU don't put in the opportunity to correct the imbalance. It's up to the player's to take the opportunity. Maybe they meet this drunk man who babbles on about how, in his youth, he hunted vampires... how even his companion's silver blades were not enough, but that they had to be laced withy magic... And Lucan should NOT wait all night at the Ziggurat. It's where he wants to make his stand. Frustrated as he is, he would be more likely to try and force the party to kill him. Oh... and they are supposed to take him alive... so they would need to STAKE him, not kill him. Good luck with only the monk as a melee fighter.
Jancarius 11-13-05, 08:14 AM	So that would mean they are essentially running from the fight on the train to the ziggurat, spending two hours making the raft (or not, if they get creative with the soardisks), and then fight their way up the ziggurat, and THEN fight Lucian?
Jancarius 11-13-05, 08:36 AM	Well, then... maybe the DM should correct the imbalance? Happen to meet an expert on the subject? Maybe a fellow passenger is a "priest" or a "bard" (Expert level X) with knowledge (Religion).Good idea. Now they just have to start talking to passengers. The only melee expert is a monk. The 4 other PCs are redundant with each other (Ninja,rogue) (Warlock, Sorcerer) There is no healer or anyone to keep the vampire at bay (turn undead).The player's pick their classes, not me. I don't force party compositon, though this may be the last time I let players be evil for a while. The ninja player is normally a rogue, but was originally forced bite the cleric bullet by virtue of joining late, and he had repeatedly expressed (not during the sessions) that he was miserable being a cleric. His RP as a cleric was horribly despondant, and ruined my fun as a DM (depressed looking players=bad). Consulting with the group, it was agreed that everyone would have more fun if he was allowed to play a class of his own choosing. At the time, the party also had a human swashbuckler and a human paladin, so the loss of a 'tank' wasn't as keenly felt. In fact, the party composition, through death and player change has shifted from all fighter-types and a warlock to having only one character who can really enter dangerous melee combat confidently. So he choose ninja, there already being a rogue, and all of us being interested in seeing how the ninja played out (in my slightly undead-heavy campaign, not so well). Yup. I also predict a TPK if YOU don't put in the opportunity to correct the imbalance. It's up to the player's to take the opportunity. Maybe they meet this drunk man who babbles on about how, in his youth, he hunted vampires... how even his companion's silver blades were not enough, but that they had to be laced withy magic...Yes, the drunks that often wander the Lyrander airships that charge a fare of about 3000 gold to get to Karnath. I know them well. Seems more likely during the downtime they get in Part 4. If that's what you meant, my bad. And Lucan should NOT wait all night at the Ziggurat. It's where he wants to make his stand. Frustrated as he is, he would be more likely to try and force the party to kill him.I guess even if he didn't come out looking for the PCs that night, by the next evening, the Soul Blade would probably regain control Oh... and they are supposed to take him alive... so they would need to STAKE him, not kill him. Good luck with only the monk as a melee fighter.Characters don't know about staking either. Are there good rules for staking anywhere, like if you can do it when they aren't helpless (and making a vampire helpless is kind of hard)
Kid SixXx 11-13-05, 09:02 AM	The best weapon against Lucan is his sister, especially if the party convinces her that she should attempt to convince Lucan to turn himself in. With the right Diplomacy checks, Lucan could possibly convinced to stake himself and save the party the trouble. I've always believed that some of the best "boss" battles are fought without drawing any swords, & Sun Tzu would agree with me.
DarkWarriorKarg 11-13-05, 09:03 AM	I'm going to start running the module in a couple of weeks, so I need to refresh my memories... Yes, the drunks that often wander the Lyrander airships that charge a fare of about 3000 gold to get to Karnath. I know them well. Seems more likely during the downtime they get in Part 4. If that's what you meant, my bad. Nobles get drunk too. :) I offer a possible scenario. There are more. Characters don't know about staking either. Are there good rules for staking anywhere, like if you can do it when they aren't helpless (and making a vampire helpless is kind of hard) I don't recall any specifics, unfortunately. I'll do some research and see if there is a method by RAW. As a house rule, I'll probably allow criticals (on 20 w/ wood stake) or sneak attacks to stake the vampire. Both effects are supposed to happen because you are hitting a particular vulnerable spot. Mind you, you would need to declare your intent to do so... and DR still applies to the wood stake... :D Unless it's a wood stake w/ silversheen & oil of magic weapon... So rogues make the best vampire hunters... under the above house rules, the rogue & ninja could flank him, and hope to get him with sneak attack. Reducing Lucan to 0 HP would also work. he'd be forced to retreat to his coffin, making him helpless. (Which is the only way by RAW). As for your party composition, I didn't mean that YOU should control it. However, the party is currently unbalanced. The monk should bodyguard the warlock and sorcerer, with silversheened hands. (he already has Ki strike (magic)). They can pound him at a distance. The rogue & ninja can also keep him at bay with holy weapons & garlic. The vampire must stary 5 'away from those people with those objects. Note that, if the sword takes control, it's goal will be to get the huecuvea out of there.
DragonWatcher 11-13-05, 02:19 PM	I hate to be the one that further hamstrings the party, but soardisks are useless outside of Sharn. They only operate due to the manifest zone to Syrania that surrounds the city. You are correct, however, that this is going to be a tough battle. I took the opportunity to add some silversheen to the treasures that the party obtained during the adventure so that they would have a chance. Also, the party made it a point to look for some kind of priest on the journey (I believe on the lightning rail), figuring that whether or not he was a cleric, he would have ranks in knowledge (religion) that none of them have. Sure enough they found one, who gave them the lo-down on how to fight a vampire. Remember that Lucan wants to fight the PCs in the ziggaurat. He will certainly use the shaft to flee should he need to heal, but he's not going to run away, because the PCs have already proven their determination to follow him thus far. Should the PC's manage to get the Soul Blade from Lucan, chances are that it will take them over too. At that point, however, Lucan's bond to Caulderus will probably take back over, and I would have him flee if possible and begin making his way back to Sharn. I believe that as the DM, it is your responsibility to make sure that the PCs don't stumble into the final fight with the BBEG of the module without knowing what they are getting themselves into. You don't have to forcefeed them, but remember too that the players aren't necessarily as wise as their characters may be. Even if the player doesn't think of something, a wisdom check might be appropriate to determine if their character's think of it. Mental stats exist for a reason. The fight will be tough, and a PC or two might die, but if the group playes it smart, enough of them might live to continue the campaign without everyone making new characters.
Jancarius 11-13-05, 04:44 PM	I hate to be the one that further hamstrings the party, but soardisks are useless outside of Sharn. They only operate due to the manifest zone to Syrania that surrounds the city.Within the city of Sharn, a character can fly a soarsled at a speed of 90 feet with good manuverbility. Beyond the City limits, a soarsled functions as a fly spell (speed 60 feet, or 40 feet if heavily loaded) that works only 3 times per day for 6 minutes each useWhew. You are correct, however, that this is going to be a tough battle. I took the opportunity to add some silversheen to the treasures that the party obtained during the adventure so that they would have a chance. Also, the party made it a point to look for some kind of priest on the journey (I believe on the lightning rail), figuring that whether or not he was a cleric, he would have ranks in knowledge (religion) that none of them have. Sure enough they found one, who gave them the lo-down on how to fight a vampire.They don't even know he's undead yet though... All they know is he whupped some ass and they couldn't seem to hurt him effectivly. Oh, and he can turn into a cloud of mist. Remember that Lucan wants to fight the PCs in the ziggaurat. He will certainly use the shaft to flee should he need to heal, but he's not going to run away, because the PCs have already proven their determination to follow him thus far. Should the PC's manage to get the Soul Blade from Lucan, chances are that it will take them over too. At that point, however, Lucan's bond to Caulderus will probably take back over, and I would have him flee if possible and begin making his way back to Sharn.Saying that he'll stay and fight till either the PCs or him die, or someone gets the Soul Blade from him? I believe that as the DM, it is your responsibility to make sure that the PCs don't stumble into the final fight with the BBEG of the module without knowing what they are getting themselves into. You don't have to forcefeed them, but remember too that the players aren't necessarily as wise as their characters may be. Even if the player doesn't think of something, a wisdom check might be appropriate to determine if their character's think of it. Mental stats exist for a reason.I think I can justify Int checks from everyone except the rogue (the ninja was from Karnath). The fight will be tough, and a PC or two might die, but if the group playes it smart, enough of them might live to continue the campaign without everyone making new characters.<whistles>This should be good. I don't recall any specifics, unfortunately. I'll do some research and see if there is a method by RAW. As a house rule, I'll probably allow criticals (on 20 w/ wood stake) or sneak attacks to stake the vampire. Both effects are supposed to happen because you are hitting a particular vulnerable spot. Mind you, you would need to declare your intent to do so... and DR still applies to the wood stake... Unless it's a wood stake w/ silversheen & oil of magic weapon... So rogues make the best vampire hunters... under the above house rules, the rogue & ninja could flank him, and hope to get him with sneak attack.Lucan get's uncanny dodge though. Though that's the lesser Uncanny dodge, the Advanced Lucan has the improved... but I think we've established that Lucan needs little advancing. Reducing Lucan to 0 HP would also work. he'd be forced to retreat to his coffin, making him helpless. (Which is the only way by RAW).Since he's not lugging a coffin around with him, I presume any coffin will do. As for your party composition, I didn't mean that YOU should control it. However, the party is currently unbalanced.On a scale you can't possibly imagine. The monk should bodyguard the warlock and sorcerer, with silversheened hands. (he already has Ki strike (magic)). They can pound him at a distance. The rogue & ninja can also keep him at bay with holy weapons & garlic. The vampire must stary 5 'away from those people with those objects.Evil party. No holy weapons. In fact, I made this BADASS intelligent mace for when the party used to be good and neutral and had a Paladin, but by the time they got it, all the good characters had died and been replaced by evil ones, so the mace was flipping out on them. Since Lucan can tumble (plus he has mobility) he can burn right past anyone trying to block his path. The best weapon against Lucan is his sister, especially if the party convinces her that she should attempt to convince Lucan to turn himself in. With the right Diplomacy checks, Lucan could possibly convinced to stake himself and save the party the trouble. I've always believed that some of the best "boss" battles are fought without drawing any swords, & Sun Tzu would agree with me.As would I, but unfortunetly, his sister is dead at the bottom of a Trolanport Canal. Meena blasted her out of the sky as they fled, and the fall killed her.
Kid SixXx 11-13-05, 07:07 PM	As would I, but unfortunetly, his sister is dead at the bottom of a Trolanport Canal. Meena blasted her out of the sky as they fled, and the fall killed her. I can daresay that Meena's attitude isn't the right one to have. Mechanics-wise, WotVB is veeeery railroady, and modules whose plot devices hinge on the BBEG mounting successful escape after successful escape until the actual conclusion of the module annoy me to no end. However, once the party meets the endgame, it'll either be anti-climactic or a total TPK. A wise party will try to capture Grilsha & use her influence to affect Lucan's morale. Failing that, a wise DM may decide to gimp Lucan's fighting prowess by making him depend on the Soul Blade. Better for the party to face the Soul Blade than Lucan's energy-draining Slam attack at their level. Sadly, Meena blasted the only leverage you had against Lucan, so she pretty much guaranteed that you'd be fighting an enraged vampire. Lucan's magical armor, DR, and energy-draining Slam would spell absolute doom for a party meeting WotVB's level requirements. Not the wisest of moves, but hindsight is always 20-20 vision.
a_psh 11-13-05, 08:29 PM	Given the description that Vior gives initially, I find it surprising how many parties ICly never realize he's a vampire until the very, very end. EDIT: Also, note that the best way to stake a vampire is to run him through with a magical silver-tipped spear. It's a real weapon and ignore DR. Also, there's a reason you generally have a mallet with you when you try to stake something: penetrating a ribcage with a semi-sharp peice of wood is kind of hard. Much better off using a metal tip attached to a length of wood, as the key here is to get the wooden shaft into his heart anyway.
DarkWarriorKarg 11-13-05, 10:38 PM	Since he's not lugging a coffin around with him, I presume any coffin will do. Nope. It has to be the coffin he's travelling with. he has 2 hours to get to it or it's permanent death. His range is about 9 miles. Evil party. No holy weapons. In fact, I made this BADASS intelligent mace for when the party used to be good and neutral and had a Paladin, but by the time they got it, all the good characters had died and been replaced by evil ones, so the mace was flipping out on them. Since Lucan can tumble (plus he has mobility) he can burn right past anyone trying to block his path. <sigh> This is one of those "evil doesn't cooperate" parties? Just because you're evil doesn't mean you don't cooperate with each other. Or cover each other's butt. Besides, if you're wearing garlic, he can't get with 5' of you. That IS an advantage. You could have him fight for control of himself with the sword. But... yeah, that party is still looking at a TPK. It's not suited to this mission.
Zelin 11-13-05, 10:52 PM	May I suggest stealing some mirrors from the airship? Should your party meet up with a story teller on the airship they could learn about a creature that can turn to mist but fears garlic and mirrors.... Repelling a Vampire Vampires cannot tolerate the strong odor of garlic and will not enter an area laced with it. Similarly, they recoil from a mirror or a strongly presented holy symbol. These things don’t harm the vampire—they merely keep it at bay. A recoiling vampire must stay at least 5 feet away from a creature holding the mirror or holy symbol and cannot touch or make melee attacks against the creature holding the item for the rest of the encounter. Holding a vampire at bay takes a standard action.
Jancarius 11-13-05, 11:14 PM	I can daresay that Meena's attitude isn't the right one to have. Mechanics-wise, WotVB is veeeery railroady, and modules whose plot devices hinge on the BBEG mounting successful escape after successful escape until the actual conclusion of the module annoy me to no end.Though I can't see how they could stop Lucan any earlier, really, as I can barely see him stopped at the end. In the carriage chase, for example, because Grilsha was advanced 2 levels, she easily killed all the horses in two shots of fireball. However, once the party meets the endgame, it'll either be anti-climactic or a total TPK.Prediciting the later... A wise party will try to capture Grilska & use her influence to affect Lucan's morale. Failing that, a wise DM may decide to gimp Lucan's fighting prowess by making him depend on the Soul Blade. Better for the party to face the Soul Blade than Lucan's energy-draining Slam attack at their level. Sadly, Meena blasted the only leverage you had against Lucan, so she pretty much guaranteed that you'd be fighting an enraged vampire. Lucan's magical armor, DR, and energy-draining Slam would spell absolute doom for a party meeting WotVB's level requirements.I'm letting Meena accompany them (she's advanced to a 6th level Wizard), so I'm hoping that will help, though I don't expect much, since she could easily be killed during the Airship battle, the lightning rail ride, or Lucan himself. Not the wisest of moves, but hindsight is always 20-20 vision.Yeah, they don't even know her name, just that she killed their horses, helps Lucan, and is a splat in Trolanport somewhere now <sigh> This is one of those "evil doesn't cooperate" parties? Just because you're evil doesn't mean you don't cooperate with each other. Or cover each other's butt. Besides, if you're wearing garlic, he can't get with 5' of you. That IS an advantage. You could have him fight for control of himself with the sword. But... yeah, that party is still looking at a TPK. It's not suited to this mission. No, they're a mix of NE and TN, so they cooperate (it's in their interest to do so, afterall). And the can't get within 5 feet of you means A) He can't slam you or B) can't close enough to use a normal weapon
Sucros 11-14-05, 02:31 AM	Lucan and TPK? Yup, we got roasted.
MarkB 11-14-05, 03:43 AM	Given the description that Vior gives initially, I find it surprising how many parties ICly never realize he's a vampire until the very, very end. True. Whilst you need ranks in Knowledge (religion) to have certain knowledge of a vampire's abilities and appearance, it would be reasonable to be able to make an educated guess untrained, at least as to what manner of creature he is - after which you can seek out an expert to sort the truth from the legends regarding how to counter such a foe.
Kid SixXx 11-14-05, 04:39 AM	True. Whilst you need ranks in Knowledge (religion) to have certain knowledge of a vampire's abilities and appearance, it would be reasonable to be able to make an educated guess untrained, at least as to what manner of creature he is - after which you can seek out an expert to sort the truth from the legends regarding how to counter such a foe. I agree. Vior pretty much drops the ball if questioned properly, which mechanically is a gigantic no-no. Someone with a Ring of Spell Storing could also use Spider Climb & Charm Person and a Potion of Gaseous Form to mimic vampiric abilities. Given that Lucan's sister is a sorcerer and given Lucan's Lantern contacts, it's not really a stretch to imagine that he'd have access to such spells and magical items. Lucan's abilities could even be psionic. However, Vior totally solves the mystery for the PC's by stressing that Lucan's abilities are "powers," and his descriptions of the "powers," plus a little folklore, help fill in the blanks. Case in point of where early questions help out later: Yeah, they don't even know her name, just that she killed their horses, helps Lucan, and is a splat in Trolanport somewhere now. You guys didn't push Vior for enough answers. ;) If you ask Lucan about anyone he might contact, Vior mentions Lucan's sister by name. That puts the party on alert for any accomplices. Vior even says she has bright red hair. So much for surprises in this module. :rolleyes: Then again, I suppose the mega-accurate information could actually be considered a credit to the intelligence gathering ability of the Dark Lanterns.
inspired 11-14-05, 05:41 AM	my party ended ended up going the diplomacy route with grilsha... the paladin was annoyed to no end. and their horses got toasted too...
a_psh 11-14-05, 06:59 AM	My comments surrounded the fact that from the metagame perspective, I hate it when the plot demands that the BBEG gets away, and the DM is obliged to pretty much cheat the players of any early victories until the "Climax" properly arrives. I'd like to take a poll of WoTVB players who killed Grilsha and see how many folks just got fed up with the multiple miracle escapes, and killed her for the expressed purpose of not allowing her to get away again. Meh, my PCs did him in at the masquerade ball and I didn't stop them (though I didn't help them, either). (Grilsha died there, too, but not by their hand; they detained Meena and gave her over to the Zil guards; they used the emergency letter of credit that Vior gave them to pay for her resurrection and some airship rides.) Half an hour later, the artificer picked up the sword, failed a Will save, and the chase was on again, in a very different way. (Lucan ended up traveling home in a box by sea, with a very ugly and misleading note claiming that everyone EXCEPT the artificer had betrayed the Citadel; Jade's Fury was still involved, though I ran the encounter a bit differently - no stupid skiffs and a lot more undead - and they burned it to peices; the other ship survived and kind of limped around for a while; ultimately, the artificer made it to Korth with the rest hot on his tail and gave the blade to Kaius, who rewarded them for pasting the Emerald Claw ship; oh, and I recycled the warforged encounter as something to do later while they were heading back home, and added a Titan.) So, yeah, we got through like 25% of the module before things changed over completely. It's a good story that's hard to actually, y'know, play out perfectly. I did reuse some of the encounter ideas in different contexts, though, because they were pretty good, too.
Jancarius 11-14-05, 10:07 PM	I agree. Vior pretty much drops the ball if questioned properly, which mechanically is a gigantic no-no. Someone with a Ring of Spell Storing could also use Spider Climb & Charm Person and a Potion of Gaseous Form to mimic vampiric abilities. Given that Lucan's sister is a sorcerer and given Lucan's Lantern contacts, it's not really a stretch to imagine that he'd have access to such spells and magical items. Lucan's abilities could even be psionic. However, Vior totally solves the mystery for the PC's by stressing that Lucan's abilities are "powers," and his descriptions of the "powers," plus a little folklore, help fill in the blanks. Case in point of where early questions help out later: You guys didn't push Vior for enough answers. ;) If you ask Lucan about anyone he might contact, Vior mentions Lucan's sister by name. That puts the party on alert for any accomplices. Vior even says she has bright red hair. So much for surprises in this module. :rolleyes: Then again, I suppose the mega-accurate information could actually be considered a credit to the intelligence gathering ability of the Dark Lanterns. Yeah, my party didn't really ask Viorr any questions (which I appreciated on one hand. Afterall, one of the party members is an Aundarian spy, and reasonably well known one at that. Why Vior hired him questions would have been akward).
WayneTheGame 11-15-05, 09:10 AM	Hmm this is very interesting to read... I just got WotVB to run for my players, but now I'm having second thoughts after reading all the comments.. I'm certain my players are gonna find some way to screw things up, and I'm not sure they'll be too keen on how railroad-y the adventure is (despite how COOL it reads!)...
Chiyo 11-15-05, 09:34 AM	I don't know. For our party of 5 L4, by the time we reached the ball, we had captured (and questioned) his sister in the attack of his chariot and he had escaped using his wolves to delay us. Given the information we had on him and his fleeing in gaseous form, the coffin in the turned over cart, etc ... it wasn't really a mystery that he was a vampire. Cleric went to church in trolamport and asked about vampires (how many folklore monsters spend their days in coffins?). He still escaped at the ball but barely. Between silversheen oil we had found in the previous adventure (SotLW) and extras we bought, the two melee guys had plenty to hit him with. At the end, we had protections from evil to prevent charming, we had silversheened weapons, 2 of them with undead bane augmentation. Between spells, a scroll of scorching ray and melee attacks, he went down in 2 rounds pretty easily. (oh yeah and we had a stake too) I think if you see he's causing the party too much trouble, have him lighten up on hit and run tactics. Low level parties cannot do many fights without resting. If you have him constantly go out in gaseous form, especially right after they used silversheen oils, you're playing him maybe smarter than Lucan should be considering the compulsion he has from the dagger. In doubt, have him use dumb tactics to make it easier on the PCs. But otherwise, the whole fight outcome depends on party preparation. If you rush in unprepared for a vampire, he can mop the floor with the party. If you go in prepare to counter his strength, he's really not that tough.
DarkWarriorKarg 11-15-05, 09:40 AM	Hmm this is very interesting to read... I just got WotVB to run for my players, but now I'm having second thoughts after reading all the comments.. I'm certain my players are gonna find some way to screw things up, and I'm not sure they'll be too keen on how railroad-y the adventure is (despite how COOL it reads!)... Well, I'm using it in a couple of weeks... (must be careful, my players frequent these boards First, the lead-in will be changed to reflect the party's non-Chaotic Greedy alignment (LG Palladin, LG Psion, NG Cleric (Boldrei), 2 greedy-ish party members (Artificer & Rogue)). There will be NO "punch a monkey" scenario. The lead-in will be something else entirely that will motivate them in bringing back Lucan in 1 piece. The Players have already established that they ask questions first, THEn shoot, so I don't need to worry about knee-jerk reaction. I will also be adding in minor encounters as well, in order to guide the adventure properly. Further, the "kick in the door" scenarios will be changed somewhat. For example, the minion of the emerald claw would last 1 round against the group (undead creature vs cleric with "disciple of the Sun")
Radkres 11-15-05, 10:44 AM	Well you might want to think about stacking some spells on your damage dealers. Example Chill touch, Blur, Enlarge Person, Mirror Image, True Strike, Shocking Grasp, etc.
Tom McCarthy 11-15-05, 01:26 PM	Lucan certainly threatened my players with TPK their first time cornering him in the ziggurat. I really wish I'd hit them over the head with his vampiric strengths and weaknesses before the fight. Even reducing his DR to "magic or silver" didn't weaken him enough. Of course, he's winning so handily you could drop him to FH 2, DR 5/silver, energy drain 1 (like a vampire spawn) and your party might never know he wasn't like that all along. It's funny. When the party fled the ziggurat (minus one PC) they were certain the module would have told the DM what to do if Lucan won. Check for yourself. The module assumes the players win and practically assumes they recover Lucan's body. Anyway, my players should get round 2 against Lucan this week, having defeated the PC-turned-vampire spawn to wrap up last week. With a new 5th level cleric with a yen for undead hunting, they should do fine. I figure one PC death max. (Edited because you can't use three letter words starting with c and ending with m and meaning 'as a' in the phrase 'PC-become-vampire spawn')
Gwenfloor 11-15-05, 01:56 PM	Convenient ways to use Garlic: Rub garlic juice on every PCs' neck. Rules out blood drain. Running Water: Scrolls of Create Water+ Miniature Canals made by hirelings. Leaves him trapped. Scroll of Wind Wall: Pushes him back from Gaseous form and Bat form Bolt down the Coffin and plug up all the holes. Can't get into or out of coffin.
Jancarius 11-15-05, 03:42 PM	I don't know. For our party of 5 L4, by the time we reached the ball, we had captured (and questioned) his sister in the attack of his chariot and he had escaped using his wolves to delay us. Given the information we had on him and his fleeing in gaseous form, the coffin in the turned over cart, etc ... it wasn't really a mystery that he was a vampire. Cleric went to church in trolamport and asked about vampires (how many folklore monsters spend their days in coffins?). He still escaped at the ball but barely. Between silversheen oil we had found in the previous adventure (SotLW) and extras we bought, the two melee guys had plenty to hit him with. At the end, we had protections from evil to prevent charming, we had silversheened weapons, 2 of them with undead bane augmentation. Between spells, a scroll of scorching ray and melee attacks, he went down in 2 rounds pretty easily. (oh yeah and we had a stake too) I think if you see he's causing the party too much trouble, have him lighten up on hit and run tactics. Low level parties cannot do many fights without resting. If you have him constantly go out in gaseous form, especially right after they used silversheen oils, you're playing him maybe smarter than Lucan should be considering the compulsion he has from the dagger. In doubt, have him use dumb tactics to make it easier on the PCs. But otherwise, the whole fight outcome depends on party preparation. If you rush in unprepared for a vampire, he can mop the floor with the party. If you go in prepare to counter his strength, he's really not that tough. I think what it's come down to is: I've told all (but 1, who I haven't contacted yet) of my players to have 32 point buy good characters rolled up in event of TPK. I'll let them have a direct crack at Lucan on the airship, before the Jade's Fury rams the Cloud's Destiny, using the normal version, and letting Lucan go all out with his sword-feint-sneak tactics. Depending on how well they survive that, I may use the advanced version. I expect a lot out of my more experienced players (Monk, Sorcerer), so I'm hoping they'll surprise me.
Aubri 11-15-05, 04:17 PM	In our case, we rolled the relatively easy check to figure out he's a vampire, then went to the library to find out everything there is to know about vampires.
Sithis 11-15-05, 05:20 PM	(Edited because you can't use three letter words starting with c and ending with m and meaning 'as a' in the phrase 'PC-become-vampire spawn') My Latin may be rusty, but assuming I'm remembering correctly you wouldn't use that word in that phrase anyway. "c-m" means "with" when used with nouns.
Aubri 11-15-05, 10:45 PM	It also means 'when', and yes, it can be used to mean one thing-turned-another.
sidekick 11-16-05, 07:21 AM	hmmm this is vely interesting. I'm, currently running SotLW for my group (EC uped as they're 4th level already). What would ya'll suggest as good things to keep in mind and alternative scenarios to aviod TOTAL rail-roading. As for level drains, by the time they get to Lucan, they'll be 5th or 6th, they could do with a level drain or two. hehehe... CApturing Grilsha is a good thing to keep in mind, also making a better encounted with the Jade's Fury, I recon that one is a bit naf. What else should I tweak to make it less railroading and what should I keep in mind for when my PCs do thier thing (IE stuff the adventure as they always do). cheers guys
DarkWarriorKarg 11-16-05, 07:56 AM	hmmm this is vely interesting. I'm, currently running SotLW for my group (EC uped as they're 4th level already). What would ya'll suggest as good things to keep in mind and alternative scenarios to aviod TOTAL rail-roading. As for level drains, by the time they get to Lucan, they'll be 5th or 6th, they could do with a level drain or two. hehehe... CApturing Grilsha is a good thing to keep in mind, also making a better encounted with the Jade's Fury, I recon that one is a bit naf. What else should I tweak to make it less railroading and what should I keep in mind for when my PCs do thier thing (IE stuff the adventure as they always do). cheers guys 1) Prepare expendable NPCs. 2) Think as the players would. Would the paladin (if there is one) accept a dubious contract under dubious circumstances? The module intro relies on greed as a motivator. 2a) See if the setup for each scene is appropriate for your PCs. 3) What if the fail to accomplish a step? 4) Lucan should run away. A lot. His goal isn't to fight, but to escape. In certain scenes, maybe he already dominated some NPCs, just ikn case something happens? As the PCs approach him in the ballroom, maybe a small group of dominated lords attacks them. Sure, they can tear through them... but these are NOBLES.
Tom McCarthy 11-16-05, 08:49 AM	WotVB is a protracted chase scene and the fugitive is, for the most part, very direct. You can let the players succeed or fail earlier or later in the chase scene, but it's hard not to make it linear. The veyr direct and linear nature of the chase is in fact almost a clue to who or what is actually guiding the chase. Lucan, used craftily, has far more options and subtle plans at his disposal than the module's plot allows. Indeed, the climax at the ziggurat has to be handled very carefully or the players may think it is a ploy to leave them behind when the train eventually departs. I think players are capable of surprise tactics (such as following a trail of coffins rather than the NPC), but it takes some intuition on the players' part in order to even guess the destination and get ahead of the fugitive.
Aubri 11-16-05, 10:30 AM	What would ya'll suggest as good things to keep in mind and alternative scenarios to aviod TOTAL rail-roading. Ahh... your wisdom grows, grasshopper. :) The real key to using a pre-printed module is to not be afraid to deviate from it. Take it as a blueprint, not a final image. For example, let's say the PCs don't take the hook. What can you do? There's a couple options. 1) Throw the hook a different way. Are the heros looking to be more, well, heroic? Maybe the Claw kidnapped a Cannith magewright to help them uncover the mystery of Rose Quarry. 2) Give them time. Take the party on a detour, let them play another little adventure first. Maybe a golem blocks their path to a different quest, so they'll need the cash to buy adamantine weapons--there's plenty of reasons they might need money. Eventually you can bring them back to the planned adventure. 3) Connections. This is something you have to set up ahead of time, but if a party member is part of Cannith, they've got an extra reason to help their own house. Eberron supports the PCs being members of a larger organization better than most settings, so it's great if you can exploit that; it makes the PCs feel like they're part of the world rather than just moving through it. 4) Reversal. Let's say they don't like the terms offered by Cannith... there's lots of other folks who want the schemas, not the least of which is the Emerald Claw. The Aurum, Merrix d'Cannith, heck--even the Lords of Dust might have reason to want this stuff! Don't over do it, of course--nobody likes the plot where every village tells you there's nothing going on except this dragon on Snowtop Mountain. If they won't take the mission on any terms, then find out what kind of mission they're looking for and see #1. And anyway, things change--perhaps the PCs delay long enough that the Claw gets the map cleared, gets frustrated, and grabs a former Quarry resident from his new home in Sharn to explain the map to them... 5) Force. This one takes a deft hand, but it can be a lot of fun. Let's say the PCs ignore the message and the Emerald Claw kidnaps Lady Elaydren. Cannith hires private inquisitives to track down the PCs since they were the last ones who had contact with her. Do the PCs have suspicion cast on them? Does Cannith tap their skills for the rescue? Does the Watch get involved? One way or another, the PCs are involved in the plot now, and must choose what to do--and if that includes not helping, then what happens without their input, and why are the players deliberately avoiding your plot? Otherwise, it can take some courage to write your first adventure. You'll think it's stupid and puerile, but the players will have more fun than you think. The key is to listen to your players and let them go where they want to--and don't punish them for leaving the rails. Reward them for their initative! After all, if they don't get on the module, perhaps you can use the module for inspiration on a different adventure. --One more thing. For god's sake, read the module ahead of time! My DM doesn't do this, and it irritates me to no end when he doesn't know how the set-piece battles should go. For example, failing to have Lucan attack the woman at the party.
cuhullen 11-16-05, 11:11 AM	The party I run had a cleric who, through knowledge checks and contacts managed to figure out that Lucan was probably a vampire. I had many masterful strategies worked out for Lucan. Right off the bat he managed to dominate the warforged fighter of the group and things looked quite grim but the sorcerer/fighter cast true strike on his bow and pulled off a 46 to hit in the heart with his first shot. Beautifully done though it was sad that it was so anticlimactic. You really never know exactly how a fight will go no matter how much planning you put into it. I also really didn't have the heart to fudge this one because that particular player had been struggling with bad dice rolls for three game sessions and this was his one moment of glory. Everyone enjoyed the adventure so all's well.
cuhullen 11-16-05, 11:18 AM	Ahh... your wisdom grows, grasshopper. :) The real key to using a pre-printed module is to not be afraid to deviate from it. Take it as a blueprint, not a final image. I completely agree. When I ran my group through, I completely skipped the lightning rail section. They were becoming very frustrated with just managing to see Lucan then having him turn into a wolf or bat or mist and escape. The lightning rail, while entertaining on its on merits, would just have slowed things down. Every DM should feel free to change anything as long as it doesn't hurt the game.
Uller999 11-16-05, 11:58 AM	I changed the adventure very liberally in my campaign. I don't like rail-roading and alot of the pursuiant groups had nothing to do with my campaign so changed some of that. The final fight with Lucan took place in an abandoned Church of the Silver Flame somewhere over norther Thrane and it was a doozy. The church was pitch-black as it had been boarded it up. I played Lucan to be a bit more crazy than desparate. Lucan simply danced in and out of combat using spider climb, spring attack, and tumble checks. He would dice a player and than run up along a wall and than spring down from behind and stab the wizard. I would occasionally have him and the sword freeze in combat as the were locked in a contest of wills (this was a random roll). The artificer had undead bane but the swashbuckler couldn't get into melee long enough to use it. The soulknife got confused twice and ended up shredding the wizard. The war-forged psychif warrior was able to do some damage but he got badly hurt in the first assault by Lucan and was disabled not too long after. It was the Valenar Ranger/Bard and the swashbuckler who would eventually resist confusion enough to corner Lucan and kill him. I thought the fight worked great in my campaign but as in any game you can really hose a party if you always do the best possible tactics. My reasoning for Lucan being in the church was the airships had crashed near dawn. So the sword was still in play and I didn't have to bother with the energy draining (which I think is more dangerous by far to be honest). You just have to run the combat such that the players can win whilst still making a proper BBG fight. If you suspect a TPK change his tactics a little, change the final scenario. I thought the temple thing was idiotic, so I got rid of it. Whatver works right?
sidekick 11-17-05, 04:43 AM	Thanks for the opinions guys. As for my party not taking greed. Hell they're an arrogant karrnathi Monk (LN) who loves magic items, a changeling rogue/wiz, cyrean human ranger and a human rogue/cleric of the traveller. They;ll fall hook line and sinker for the do a job for us and we'll pay you good line. That and they're about to turn over some Emerald claw agents to the citadel so they'll already be on the radar for Viorr. I think I might skip the lioghtning rail as I totally don't like that part of WotVB. I might do something similar to Uller with an abandoned church. Also I'll have to think about the possibility of the group capturing Grishlda. Heck this all requires that they actually survive the Mournlands - which frankly they wont; manage... happy hunting everybody.
BMStroh 11-17-05, 10:51 AM	My group seriously derailed the adventure pretty handily. There were 6 characters, so I bumped Grilsha's level a bit and gave her Wall of Fire. Thanks to a really good Spot check, she realized the party was coming after them, and took no chances. The party horses weren't too keen on running through fire, so that took care of that escape. The group caught Lucan on the lightning rail - it was impossible for me to tell the two dragonmarked, favored in house, Orien characters that they couldn't open a door on the train, and one of them was a bard with a scary level diplomacy check. Between sparing Grilsha's life in Trolanport, Lucan's own struggle against the blade, good diplomacy, and a natural 20 roll, Lucan agreed to surrender/get staked for return to Sharn. In a nice twist, the current GM has brought him in as a tangential NPC... Had it not been for that diplomacy check, I fully expected a TPK with Lucan - with fast healing, any time he gets free of the party for a minute, he's fully healed. Between that and his damage-dealing potential, I didn't have high hopes... :)
Jancarius 11-20-05, 01:16 AM	Well, I did go a bit easy on them (not coup d'gracing downed PCs and such) but overall, I felt it was reasonably entertaining and challenging. Picking up from the beginning of the airship event, the Emerald Claw boarded the ship. I gave them spot checks to let them notice the skiffs and Jade's Fury. The entire party was on deck, and starts single handedly trying to hold off the EmC, but they are slowly getting overwhelmed by the 15 or so EmC soldiers that are carving through the magewright crew and the 3 squad leaders. All the EmC soldiers were advanced to L4 Warriors and the squad leaders were L4 fighters, except 1, who I replaced with a L6 version of Kaela from SotLW (who they left alive last time). The party's ub3r monk lept onto one of the skiffs, as did the party ninja, easily dealing with the pilots. The archers kept raining arrows on them, but weren't hitting (bad rolls on my part). When Lucan emerged, he ordered the captain of the Cloud's Destiny to crash the Destiny into the Fury (I couldn't resist having that crash). The party members wound up in control of two skiffs, with Kaela and Garrow. The monk almost immediatly asks if he can join the Emerald Claw, and the sorcerer (the Aundarian spy) follows his request. Garrow and Kaela consider this, figure fighting to the death on this skiff against superior numbers isn't that great a plan, and agree. They make it Sterngate, and hear the lightning rail powering up to leave. Kaela provided silversheen to the party on the way there, by the way. They got on the train easily (my party tends to just ignore any obstacles and run past whenever there's a 'ship pulling away from the dock' kind of situation), and just started killing the crew members when the crew tried to stop them from searching the ship. Sometimes, I hate evil parties. The crew was basically helpless, being a bunch of L1-3 characters, and they killed a passenger or two before I just had the warforged/halfling merc attack occur early. During the attack, the party split up and the halfling rogue walks into a car where Lucan dominates her, and then Kaela and Garrow enter. He dominates Kaela and then Garrow, who fights for a round (the rest of the party fails their listen check to hear this). The sorcerer joins them, but Lucan has already returned to his cabin, and the dominated party members tell the sorcerer that they've searched this car. He fails his sense motive checks. I forgot to roll the warlock, monk and ninja (whose player was absent this week, unfortunetly) sense motive when they met up, not that the ninja probably would have told anyone else anyway. Anyway, so when the warforged attack, Scimitar (advanced to L6) nearly killed the party monk by himself, and probably would have without the warlock helping. After they (barely) got Scimitar down, they spot Lucan taking off from the train in dire wolf form. The monk (who has levelled to 6 by this point), chases after him, keeping him in sight as he makes his way to the ziggurat. The party makes a raft and crosses the lake, deals with the Choker fairly easily, though the halfling took some damage thanks to the engulf. They moved through, and the rogue made her Reflex save against the pit trap when she botched her roll to disarm. I had the zombie minotaur focus on Kaela, to give the party a better chance when Lucan ordered her to turn on them. Garrow healed some of her damage though. They went down, WHUPPED the two things in the statue room, and then went back upstairs. The centipedes were easily whupped as well, and then they reached Lucan. Lucan stands and says "Slay them, my minons!", then runs over and hits the monk in the face, dealing two negative levels. The monk tries to grapple and fails the first time. The rest of hte party starts fighting Kaela and Garrow, except the Sorcerer who fires scorching rays at Lucan. Here is where I went a bit easy on them (besides what was already mentioned). Rather than having Lucan focus on one player (and thus getting multiple energy drain attacks a round), I had him split up his attacks. Kaela whupped the crap out of the Warlock, and Garrow's spells weren't really helpful at all (he prepared them to fight Lucan, not to defend him), but he did heal Kaela once. Kaela actually turned out to be more dangerous than Lucan, dropping the ninja, the warlock and one round from dropping the rogue when they finally dropped her. The rogue coup'd graced her viciously. I also went easy in that she didn't coup'dgrace the ninja or Warlock when she dropped them. Eventually, they ran Lucan to ground though in a lucky round (the rogue's three attacks in one round hit and at the same time the sorcerer rolled good damage on Scorching Ray, and Lucan went to exactly 0 HP). I also didn't use Lucan's feint abillity for the record, and they eventually made their way to the bottom and staked him. Then the sorcerer cut off his head for good measure, not trusting me not to have him wake up somehow during the trip home. The monk promplty took the soul blade, and made his Will save to resist.
mgmontgomery 11-20-05, 01:58 AM	Also, the rogue made her Will save to break the domination when the vampire ordered her to attack her friends. And luckily I, as the sorcerer, was able to get the benefits of my new level (6) which I acquired after the lightning rail, including spells. So that was a bit of a fudge in our favor, but I'd say having two extra enemies more than makes up for it. Now we just have to see what the Monk does with the sword. It should be interesting.
bromleylaerchenheim 11-29-05, 05:36 AM	In the ziggurat battle, the first thing was, that our Shifter Monk successfully disarmed Lucan of his blade and manages to not get controlled by it! This weakens Lucan so that the group could bring him down more easily
Straylight 11-29-05, 06:37 AM	Sweet Siberys Above, what page did you find this on? I know it's not that old, so it might not qualify, but still, necromancy is generally considered poor netiquette. Let's leave the Raise Dead to the clerics, hmm?
ShaneCF 11-29-05, 12:05 PM	Ah, I remember when my players went through WotVB. Good memories. Well, not really. They pretty much knew he was a vampire the moment I described him. Then, when I described the coach, they knew for sure. Two of the players have a lot of D&D experience, so they knew what they'd need to prepare ahead of time. The party was comprised of a Warforged Warlock, Illumian Warmage (with maxed out Int and Dex), Shifter Barbarian (with almost maxed out physical stats), and a Human Cleric. They were pretty strong, mainly due to my ability-generation method. When they caught up with the coach, Lucan called out wolves to try to take them down. The Warmage and Barbarian rode past the wolves to stop the coach (which involved the Barbarian shooting flaming arrows at it), while the Warlock and Cleric attempted to deal with the wolves. They both would have joined the other two, but they had already been falling behind, and the Cleric was having a lot of difficulty with the wolves. Eventually, the wolves took down Cleric's horse. It was a very interesting encounter, overall. At the masquerade, the three humanoids got in as guests, with no trickery involved, since I decided to let them use their Sahuagin extermination as leverage to get into the party, but the Warforged had to be allowed in as a worker in the kitchen. I allowed them plenty of opportunity to scan the room or talk to guests, but the Warmage lacked the skills to do so properly. The one with the skills to do so, the Cleric, spent his time over in the corner with the Shifter, drinking. In retrospect, it was probably a bit odd for a shifter to be present at this event and nobody seemed to care, but I was trying to keep things going at a quick pace. Eventually, chaos errupted on the dance floor, fights broke out, and they reduced Lucan to gaseous form, and he escaped through a window. Grilsha, close to the begining of the fight, went invisable and slipped into the kitchen to head for a back entrance. Of course, the Warforged Warlock could see her, but he was unable to follow her. On board the airship, the Warforged took plenty of time to snoop around the ship. I made sure to include a couple of NPCs that had been tracking Lucan so they had others that they could consult. I needed a good reason to distract the party at the time of the Emerald Claw's attack, so I had one of the NPCs meet with the party to tell them that the other NPC, a cleric, believed he had found Lucan's hiding spot. I boosted up the stats of the EC for this encounter, but it didn't stop the party from owning them. In the first two rounds of combat, however, the Emerald Claw archers had slain every crew member on deck. The Warmage started unleashing massive damage on everyone... Grilsha and Lucan appeared on deck... the two NPCs I threw in joined the battle. It was really quite entertaining. And then... the Warforged disarmed Lucan of the Soul Blade. I wouldn't have let it happen, but there was no way to fudge the situation. He had a good modifier for it and rolled a natural 20. Then, he made the Will save. Luckily, Lucan managed to take it back from him, and I gave a warning to the player about 'breaking the module'. It was kind of a running gag we had going because they kept doing things that ruined the modules as written and required me to do a lot of thinking 'on my feet'. (One such example is when the party came out of Whitehearth. There was mention of some sort of magic in place on the location. Private Sanctum? I don't remember what it was. Anyway, I decide to have the Emerald Claw, Garrow, and that female necromancer waiting outside the cave entrance with Failin as a hostage. I had the vulture inside the cave, because they hadn't managed to kill it when they encountered it before. So, when the party reaches the entrance, they see the Emerald Claw outside. Garrow knows they are coming, so he demands their surrender. The Warforged of the party shouts back some sort of clever retort at Garrow, and then I have the Emerald Claw stand there, waiting. That's when the party remembered that the magical effect was still in place. So they take the opportunity to quickly heal themselves and make a battle plan. Needless to say, that encounter went HORRIBLY wrong. They made easy work of all of Garrow's forces, and if I had not fudged Garrow's statistics to make him more of a challenge, the party would have killed him within a couple rounds.) Anyway, Lucan turned to gaseous form and floated away. A party member finally made their spot check to see the airship behind them seconds before it rammed the Cloud's Destiny. They asked how come they didn't get to make listen checks. I could only say "because the module did not tell me to have you make listen checks." :( And, the party picked up its unconscious NPCs, made its way to one of the EC skiffs, intimidated an EC to pilot it for them, and escaped, as Grilsha, who had been hit with the Soulblade's confusion effect, babbled incoherently to her death. Things only got worse. In the final encounter, Lucan opened up with melee combat, only for the Soulblade to be dispelled, removed from his hands, and the Warmage hit him with Chill Touch. As he tried to flee, the Barbarian grappled and pinned him. Then, they staked him, put him in a sarcophagus, and took him back to Breland. Overall, the module was fun, but my players had way too easy of a time with it. This is what convinced me that in future games I run, I will use point-buy for abilities. lol
Jancarius 11-29-05, 02:30 PM	Taking away the Soul Blade makes him MORE dangerous. Then he gets to use his energy draining slam. Assuming your party is L4 as the module describes, this means every character in the party can be killed in two hits.
Aubri 11-30-05, 10:06 AM	Unless you have a warforged to grapple him. :)
Jancarius 11-30-05, 12:27 PM	Which will last a roudn tops before he goes to Gaseous form and flies onto the ceiling where the Warforged won't reach him, recovers his HP, and does a jump-charge into the Warforged to knock two negative levels into him.
MarkB 11-30-05, 01:17 PM	Which will last a roudn tops before he goes to Gaseous form and flies onto the ceiling where the Warforged won't reach him, recovers his HP, and does a jump-charge into the Warforged to knock two negative levels into him. Warforged are immune to energy drain. He could, however, inflict constitution damage via Blood Drain (not a pleasant experience for the vampire, as warforged alchemical fluids aren't nourishing, but definitely unhealthy for the warforged).
Jancarius 12-01-05, 12:24 AM	I tend to forget about all the stuff Warforged are immune to. Well, I guess the Con drain is the way to go.