Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dryder 11-01-05, 05:08 AM	Hi there! I am presently preparing to run WotVB. One thing I observed - how is Lucan (as a vampire) able to travel in Trolanport? I mean, Trolanport is like Venice (Italy), there is a lot of running water and the entry in the MM says, he can travel running water only in his sarcophagus. Is he able to fly over water in gaseous form, or how does he do it??? Or do I miss something vital here?! Any help would be great!
REN 11-01-05, 09:01 AM	I had the same problem. I wasn't sure how to interpret that. It was even more difficult because the carriage and the coffin were destroyed about 1 day outside of Trolanport. The PCs made quick timing while on horse back and finally caught up to him and Grilsha. Girlsha died in the carriage crash and Lucan turned to mist then stole one of the party horses. In the Monster Manual it says... "If the base creature has a swim speed, the vampire retains the ability to swim and is not vulnerable to immersion in running water. " So I figured Lucan would have been able to swim prior to becoming a vampire. Also, the Monster Manual says... "Vampires are also unable to cross running water, although they can be carried over it while resting in their coffins or aboard a ship. " So a ship could be a Gondala (spelling???) or any other vessel that floats on water.
MarkB 11-01-05, 09:19 AM	I had the same problem. I wasn't sure how to interpret that. It was even more difficult because the carriage and the coffin were destroyed about 1 day outside of Trolanport. The PCs made quick timing while on horse back and finally caught up to him and Grilsha. Girlsha died in the carriage crash and Lucan turned to mist then stole one of the party horses. In the Monster Manual it says... "If the base creature has a swim speed, the vampire retains the ability to swim and is not vulnerable to immersion in running water. " So I figured Lucan would have been able to swim prior to becoming a vampire. Just having had ranks in Swim wouldn't cut it. He'd have to be of a creature type whose Monster Manual entry lists "Swim <n> ft." under its speed, or to have acquired such a speed as a permanent ability through a feat or class feature. Also, the Monster Manual says... "Vampires are also unable to cross running water, although they can be carried over it while resting in their coffins or aboard a ship. " So a ship could be a Gondala (spelling???) or any other vessel that floats on water. I tend to think the implication here is that they can't voluntarily cross running water, but can be carried over it. So Lucan and Grilsha could hire a carriage in Trolanport, and then Grilsha could drive it with Lucan as a passenger, probably with the blinds drawn. He won't find it pleasant going over bridges, but he won't come to a crashing halt either.
Radkres 11-01-05, 09:28 AM	I generally run that vampires can cross but it has to be under some source of motive power and not under their direction Example Inside a carriage he can cross the water if there is a layer of earth in the floor. So if he was getting pushed in a gondola it would have a layer of earth in the bottom.
REN 11-01-05, 09:39 AM	What would happen if he simply changed into a bat and soared across the running water? There isn't any invisible barrier blocking him from doing so and I would think that a vampire should be able to do that. It may hurt as he passes over it, heck he may even then start to fall or even change back to humanoid and keep falling, but he would eventually make it across a small body of running water. After the Aundarian Ball, he turned himself into mist and escaped out some cracks in the windows, but then I assumed he turned into a bat and flew across town to the Airship tower. How can he have done that if it is in fact a city of canals?
Keenath 11-01-05, 09:42 AM	Traditionally, a vampire can cross a river or whatnot so long as somebody else is driving. A gondola counts, I believe; the only issue is that he can't cross running water under his own power. As far as I know, the coffin is not required, though he better bring it with him if he expects to rest on the far side! In fact, that's one of the methods for killing a vampire; you get him to cross water without his coffin, then reduce him to 0 HP. He transforms into a gas and tries to flee to his coffin, but he can't cross the river, so he's forced to wander until the time expires or dawn arrives... What would happen if he simply changed into a bat and soared across the running water? There isn't any invisible barrier blocking him from doing so and I would think that a vampire should be able to do that.Actually, there IS an invisible barrier if you go by traditional vampire lore. The vampire recoils from the idea of crossing water, flying or not -- it's the same as if you'd shoved a cross in his face or presented him with a nice italian meal. He just can't bring himself to cross it. Consider it as a phobia if you like; it'll have the same effect on his behavior. I'd suggest, though, that the writer of Whispers forgot about the whole "Trollanport is Venice" thing. He doesn't seem to have a real great handle on other elements of Eberron either, so it isn't the first time. As an in-game explanation, I suppose we could assume that either there exists a path from the ballroom to the airship that doesn't cross any canals, or else he paused in his flight and got rowed across by a gondoleer.
Munz 11-01-05, 10:12 AM	As for my players, they caught up to the coach being repaired just outside of town, but neither Lucan or his sister were around (they had already made their way to the city). As for the idea of Lucan getting around town, I'd like to think that with all the houses and alleys involved (just like any city) that some of them actually were built over the water. So treating the water as any underground canal would be treated, Lucan could just walk across as though it were not even there. Because there are probably MANY underground canals that a vampire would cross in his/her lifetime, but since they are underground I would suspect the vampire may not even be aware of it. I would treat Trolanport the same way. Some of the houses and buldings and other structures were built right on top of the area where the water would stream underneath. So if you were to think of the water way as an alley of sorts for purpose of boating around, you might easily see that some would end in dead-ends as a building or other structure blocks the way, and would continue on the other side or possibly be redirected underneath somewhere else. I bet this city has indoor plumbing too... just a side thought. Hope this helps and doesn't open a WHOLE 'nother can of worms with the logistics of it compared to a supernatural idea.
moby 11-01-05, 11:53 AM	Actually, there IS an invisible barrier if you go by traditional vampire lore. The vampire recoils from the idea of crossing water, flying or not -- it's the same as if you'd shoved a cross in his face or presented him with a nice italian meal. He just can't bring himself to cross it. Consider it as a phobia if you like; it'll have the same effect on his behavior. Not to be particularly disagreeable here, but I just wanted to take this idea to a ludicrous extreme. Consider the amount of underground water that exists in the world - underground lakes, streams, and even the water table itself. All this water is moving to some degree. Could a vampire that is affected by 'an invisible barrier' even walk across an open field in a straight line? Or at all? My take would be something like this: build your house in the middle of a river, you're probably safe from vampires there; access exists via a bridge under which is stagnant or semi-stagnant water (ever been to Venice? the canal water isn't exactly what i would call "flowing"), you've got a problem. my 2cp moby
REN 11-01-05, 12:03 PM	Well, I don't necessarily agree with the invisible barrier. If a vampire bat was flying at top speed and about to cross a river, I can understand the natural aversion to want to do something like that, but who's to say he wouldn't attempt it? If there was a barrier, then he would smack up against it, and that is juts silly (in my opinion). I think he would be weekend for sure, but can probably get across alive. In the case of Lucan, the sword is pushing him onward so he may not have a choice in the matter. Also, I think that the I would consider a slow stream not much of a problem, whereas as roaring river may be a bigger problem. It's more the fact that if the vampire would fall into the water he would be killed quickly, rather than just the fact that going over water can kill him/it. So a vampire would be afraid of it more so than suffer from going over water. He kinda needs a hand to hold on to as hw crosses it. Crossing from Breland over to Zilargo, they had to cross the river. I had a fairy man there and he explained that a rather nervous looking individual on horseback had crossed earlier in the morning, just before sun up. It'a all up to your interpretation I suppose. I do agree that the author of the module probably didn't think much about these potential issues. Nonetheless, it's been a fun module thus far.
MarkB 11-01-05, 01:23 PM	Not to be particularly disagreeable here, but I just wanted to take this idea to a ludicrous extreme. Consider the amount of underground water that exists in the world - underground lakes, streams, and even the water table itself. All this water is moving to some degree. Could a vampire that is affected by 'an invisible barrier' even walk across an open field in a straight line? Or at all? I'm now unable to rid myself of the image of someone creating a reliable set of dowsing rods by tying a vampire to a couple of sticks.
Dryder 11-02-05, 03:26 AM	Thank you guys for answering and giving your thoughts on this. I think I will rule, that flying above running water (either as a bat or in gaseous form) will do, and that walking across bridges will do as well, if the vampire has a motif to do so. I think bridges and boats will be handled like a strongly presented holy symbol...
il Kav 11-02-05, 07:53 PM	So a ship could be a Gondala (spelling???) or any other vessel that floats on water. Gondola ;) personally, I find quite ridicolous the fact a vampire can't walk across some water... I simply don't care about that specifical rule... If you will ever be in Venice, you'll see that a vampire will be very happy to live there (it's a very "gothic" place)