Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Forgerunner 01-03-05, 09:34 PM	Luthball An Drow/Elven game initially created while under giant oppression in Xen'drik. It has developed into a popular team sport and and symbolically as a culturally unifying event durring stressful times. Luthball Origins History of Xen'drik -80,000 Giants enslave Elves and Drow. -79.000 Early incarnations of Luthball are developed under the amused eyes of the Giants. -60,000 Dragons teach the Giants arcane magic. The slaves observe, and learn as well. -40,000 Dal Quor invade Eberron, Giants use Arcane magic to fend off the agressors. -39,000 With the Giants weakened from the war with the Dal Quor, the slaves rebel. This is the earliest time use the modified Luthball in combat can be confirmed. Game play 1. Equal teams begin play. While there are no set positions for players, it is generally encouraged that one or two players guard their goal while the rest cover their side of the field. 2. The Hiran (Drow for Giant, the title for the referee) hurls the Luthball into the air in the beginning of play, it lands 10 ft in random direction (d8) from center of field, and remains in his stand durring play. 3. Both teams then attempt to get the Luthball and hurl it into the opposing teams goal. 4. When a goal is achieved the players reset to their beginning of play positions. 5 If at any point a player deals another player any kind of damage, the amount will be subtracted from his team’s score (These penalties can result in a negative score). 6. The first team to achieve 5 points wins. The loosing team must then proclaim their opponents the better team. Game play Actions 1. Throwing: Treat the Luthball as a thrown weapon to put the ball in the approiate square by hitting an AC 10. Failure places the ball 10 feet away in a random (d8) direction from the targeted square. 2. Catching: To catch the Luthball takes a standard action and provokes an attack of opp. The catcher must make an attack roll as if he were throwing the Luthball against an AC of 10. Failure results in the Luthball landing 10 ft away in a random (d8) direction. 3. Intercepting: If the ball passes through an occupied square regardless of team, the player may try to catch as above. 4. Stealing: If a player with the Luthball provokes an attack of opportunity then the attacker may try to steal the ball by making a melee attack. against the Luthball’s AC (player +4). If the attack. is successful the ball is flung 10 ft in a random (d8) direction. 5. Taking: At any time if a player has the Luthball an opposing player may try to Trip, Overrun, or Bullrush that player. At any point if a player is knocked prone the Luthball passes to the attackers hands. Luthball Field The official field is 65 feet by 95 feet. Each goal is found on opposite sides of the field; they are 15 feet wide, 5 feet high, 5 feet deep. The Hiran stand is 10 feet high, and occupies the center 5x5 foot square. The Luthball The Luthball is an Exotic thrown weapon. This solid tree-rubber ball, one foot in diameter encased in leather, is a representation of the throwing rocks used by the Xen'drik giants. They are the focus of the game Luthball (drow for “Throw Ball”). Bounceback With a successful attack any Luthball returns to the same square as it was thrown from the following round. To catch the Luthball the catcher must make an attack. roll as if he were throwing the Luthball against an AC of 10. Failure (either to strike the target or to catch) results in the Luthball landing 10 ft away in a random (d8) direction from the intended target or catcher. Bounceback only works for thirty feet; the Luthball stops thirty feet in the direction of the thrower's square if it is beyond the range. The Common Luthball is the standard type used by nearly all Luthball players found in the general population. The Pro Luthball is a superior version of the Common variety. The extra pound of reinforced and treated leather makes the Luthball easier to control (giving the user a +1 to attack), but also makes it deal real, rather than nonleathal damage. A Pro Luthball counts as a masterwork weapon. Common Luthball Two-Handed Exotic Thrown Weapon cost: 10g Dmg 2d6* Crit 19-20/x3 Range 10 ft Weight 14lbs Type Bludgeoning Pro Luthball Two-Handed Exotic Thrown Weapon cost 310g Dmg 2d6 Crit 19-20/x3 Range 10 ft Weight 15lbs Type Bludgeoning Xen’drik Luthball This +1 Giant Bane Luthball is slightly smaller than common Luthballs; but it is bound in metal bands, covered in spikes. Found only in the ruins of Xen’drik or the most exotic of private collections, these relics of the Age of Giants were weapon used by the Elves and Drow in guerilla warfare against their enslavers. The most commonly assumed tactics included four to eight ambushing a giant, surrounding it, and alternating throwers and catchers. +1 MW Two-Handed Exotic Thrown Weapon Dmg 2d6 (+2d6 vs. Giants) Crit 19-20/x3 Range 10 ft Weight 15lbs Type Bludgeoning/Piercing *deals nonleathal damage.
Edymnion 01-03-05, 10:08 PM	So, its basically American Football mixed with Soccer?
DolArrah 01-03-05, 10:23 PM	Game Play[list=1] 1. How many people on each team? 2. Considering the high amounts of low-level magic, I would think that someone could use Mage Hand to throw the ball in, instead of the referre, that makes the game seem more like Ebberon. If not, is the referre standing in the middle, or on one side? If it is one one side, then you only have a 1d5, because the ball can't go behind the out of bounds referre. 3.Straitforward 4. How many points per goal? 1? 5. Can you go into the negetives? How do they tell wether or not he was hurt, or do you mean a serious injury, not like, "Oww. You rammed into me. I think I broke a nail!"? 6. OK Game Play Actions 1. Ac 10? That is simple. A 1st level pc becomes a pro at the sport, while a 7th or 8th level fighter/warrior can never miss unless they role a one. I would say making the AC atleast 15, or changing the size of the targets based on the division (pro, for fun, minor tournament, etc.). 2. Why don't you make the DC for catching the ball equal to 10+1/2 Int mod+ 1/2 Str mod+ 1/2 Dex mod+ BAB of the attacking person. That would make it harder to catch the ball if you were playing against the best person in the world, while easy to catch it if the person is a commoner. That puts some distinction between the two. 3. Good 4. I would say that if the attack is succesful, then the attacking player should get a chance to catch it, say DC 20? 5. Ok Luthball Field Good ft./ft. but the goals are 5 feet deep? Does that mean you have to jump into a 5 foot hole to score? What are the goals like (and how big is the scoring area?)? Are the goals like a stick with a circle on one end, or are the a 5ft. square that goes from the ground up? Also, 5 feet isn't anything. 2 goal gaurds couldn't even stand side by side. Why is the referre siting on a (insert name of material here) platform. People cold run into it. I would say have him in a levitating chair (corresponding with the Ebberon feel). I take back what I said in Game Play: 2. The Luthball Exotic Weapon? If you said that it was sweeping the nation, then averyone would know how to use it. Also, if it is exotic, unless the players take a feat, and because they are low-leveled they won't have many, they get a penalty for using it. That is like saying a pro at soccer gets a penalty because it came from another country. Does the pro Luthball have the +1 bonus from being masterwork and the other +1 bonus? Xendrik Luthball Why is it Giant Bane? The giants play it (one is the referree). This is good, although please respond to the things that I mentioned. Good Job Peace, Dol Arrah
Forgerunner 01-03-05, 10:23 PM	Kinda, but I do admit that my lady has been playing a whole lotta Blitzball recently. I don't think i have left any glaring flaws, but the real intent is to let players use all thier combat styles and group tactics in a non-slaughtery situation. The only char. type that isn't having a good time the one with massive grapple and power atk abilities. besides, players need something to do when a select few have to make a snack run.
ChronosCrow 01-03-05, 10:48 PM	I see a problem with intercepting at this point and agree with Dol Arrah's suggestions and questions. Intercepting the ball shouldn't be just as simple as catching. When thrown a ball is usually thrown is such a fashion as to make it hard for anyone to catch other than the designated spot/person or square in this case. Sometimes it's arched up in the air, sometimes things can be thrown with a spin, all kinds of throwing factors can change up how a ball can be caught. Ofcourse I am just geek haven't really played much football or baseball.
WilliamPall 01-03-05, 11:44 PM	Only a suggestion, but this could possibly change the game in an aspect that you may not want. Put a blade in the ball. It would account for needing the XWP feat, it would account for the fluff listing that the balls were used as weapons during the Elf/Giant revolt. It would account for the dangerous nature of throwing and catching the ball. And it would account for why it's so popular, the general populus loves bloodsports. And when you say that teams lose points when an opponent gets hurt . . . is that lethal or non-lethal damage?
Forgerunner 01-03-05, 11:53 PM	OK, First off thank you DolArrah. I hadn't realized I didn't cover all my bases. so, here goes... 1. How many people on each team? >A pro game is 4-6 on each team, but the teams must be equal 2. Considering the high amounts of low-level magic, I would think that someone could use Mage Hand to throw the ball in, instead of the referre, that makes the game seem more like Ebberon. If not, is the referre standing in the middle, or on one side? If it is one one side, then you only have a 1d5, because the ball can't go behind the out of bounds referre. >In respect to the history of the game the Refree is symbolically a giant, and generally a person of high standing (badumdum) in the community. Actually it is (more than likely) a med. sized creature on the Hiran Stand. Think of a lifeguard stand, ten feet high, and placed dead center of the field. This gives the refree a superior vantage point to observe the players, enforce the rules, and yell decisions. As for using magic, why burn spells when you have perfectly good npcs. That said, who's to say the Hiran dosent use mage hand to bring the ball to him, easy math to calculate various rules violations, or various illusions to display the score to the crowd. But this kind of showmanship is by no means required in the rules. 4. How many points per goal? 1? >yep, 1 point per goal 5. Can you go into the negetives? How do they tell wether or not he was hurt, or do you mean a serious injury, not like, "Oww. You rammed into me. I think I broke a nail!"? >Yes, scores go into negatives. Quickly too if a player gets outta hand. The Hiran would be responsible for stopping the game to check on the player (either through magical means or sufficant ranks in heal). The ammount of damage (subduel, bludgoning, slashing, so on) delt would then be removed from the player's team's score. By the way, i forgot to mention; any death on the field immediately ends the game, resulting in a "loss" for each team, and apropiate diciplinary actions taken against the attacker. Game Play Actions 1. Ac 10? That is simple. A 1st level pc becomes a pro at the sport, while a 7th or 8th level fighter/warrior can never miss unless they role a one. I would say making the AC atleast 15, or changing the size of the targets based on the division (pro, for fun, minor tournament, etc.). >The AC represents the difficulty in simply throwing the ball into a desired square (square refers to a 5x5 foot square on a grid map). The difficulty in the game comes from the attacks of oppurtunity provoked by catching or throwing the ball. A team that can minimize these risks has an advantage, as does a team of expert overruners. 2. Why don't you make the DC for catching the ball equal to 10+1/2 Int mod+ 1/2 Str mod+ 1/2 Dex mod+ BAB of the attacking person. That would make it harder to catch the ball if you were playing against the best person in the world, while easy to catch it if the person is a commoner. That puts some distinction between the two. >Again, catching is not the hard part, it's the Atk. of Opp. 4. I would say that if the attack is succesful, then the attacking player should get a chance to catch it, say DC 20? >That would make it a in essence a disarm attempt, which i'm not cool with on an AoO. Luthball Field Good ft./ft. but the goals are 5 feet deep? Does that mean you have to jump into a 5 foot hole to score? What are the goals like (and how big is the scoring area?)? Are the goals like a stick with a circle on one end, or are the a 5ft. square that goes from the ground up? Also, 5 feet isn't anything. 2 goal gaurds couldn't even stand side by side. Why is the referre siting on a (insert name of material here) platform. People cold run into it. I would say have him in a levitating chair (corresponding with the Ebberon feel). I take back what I said in Game Play: 2. >Again i apologise, i meant deep as in from front to back, The goal is a structure (net, wood, magical force) That occupies 3 squares (15 ft wide, 5 ft from ground to top, 5 ft from front to back, with the front open. Think a soccer goal. As for the Hiran stand, this is traditionally the giant, standing in the middle of the field; both obstacle and enforcer. but the details would understandably change from arena to arena. A floating chair would make a lot of sence in sharn for example (so would a spiked pilar in lower sharn). The Luthball Exotic Weapon? If you said that it was sweeping the nation, then averyone would know how to use it. Also, if it is exotic, unless the players take a feat, and because they are low-leveled they won't have many, they get a penalty for using it. That is like saying a pro at soccer gets a penalty because it came from another country. >To use a Luthball to deal damage requires an Exotic weapon prof. not to play the game. Does the pro Luthball have the +1 bonus from being masterwork and the other +1 bonus? >Masterwork, but you gain this bonus regardless of the intent to damage Xendrik Luthball Why is it Giant Bane? The giants play it (one is the referree). >A Xen'drik Luthball is 38,000 yr old magical weapon used in the rebellion of the elves and drow against thier giant oppressors and are priceless colectables. modern luthballs only refrence them. Also, i would assume any actual giant would take offence to this game and be unwilling to participate. Finally i welcome any other oppertunity to refine this idea further and encourage playtesting, cuz it's fun. also i am deeply sorry about the apalling spelling, and thank you for your understanding
Forgerunner 01-04-05, 12:14 AM	Yes, to our shame the number of knowlegable sports enthousists are few in our rank, but as for exotic throwing technigues, this is not a baseball, it is 14-15lb foot wide sphear with a range of 10 feet. there is little finess here. That said, a Master thrower could do awe inspiring feats with a luthball, but that's a Prc and he's earned it. As for intercepting, jumping and reaching should put a player in the way as long as he is in the ball's flight-path (even at it's zenith i would think these balls are only 6-7 feet off the ground when thrown for distance). As for blood sports. Perhaps the idealist in me says that after a century long war, the people could use a break from blood. it was with this in mind that i developed the game: all combat, no death. That attitude could very well change from local to local, using the stats for a Xen'drik ball (while removing the +1 giant bane) would make for a terrifying game, it would also quickly degrade into a chaotic mess rather then a game of tactics and teamwork, but that's fun too
okaynowa 01-04-05, 03:37 AM	If you want to alter the DCs for Luthball, how about applying size modifier? The ball should be Tiny or Diminutive (+2 or +4 size bonus to AC).
Zalaz Mavi 01-04-05, 08:52 AM	The idea is a good one, but Elven rugby strikes me as more isolated to the Valenar, much like Hrazhak being mostly a Shifter sport. I can especially see the Valenar playing this during their period of mandatory service to the High King...
TheRedRobedWizard 01-04-05, 10:11 AM	Sounds a bit too much like Blitzball from FFX for my tastes. I mean, its a cool idea, but just not my flavor. I suggest spikes. Spikes always make the game mor interesting. -TRRW
Okami 01-04-05, 11:00 AM	On the subject of damage and no-foolin' violence in Luthball I could see where the Valenar would choose to hold more savage tournaments as a way of revering the actual events which the game were inspired by. Over time visitors to the Elven lands would have witnessed these events, adopted the concept of the game but bastardised it to suit their much more self preservational interests. The Valenar would be disgusted at the thought of a toned down version in the same way that someone would be disgusted at any gratuitous commercialization of something they see as sacred. But, more often than not they can't turn down the free publicity for their heroic ancestors. The Valenar are too proud for that. Instead they remain disdainful and satisfied as they play matches to the death whilst the rest of the world just goes home with black eyes and concussions. The possibility of having alternate balls and variations on damage (poisons, spikes, hamsters what-have-you) should be entirely up to the players and officials.. but that does not mean that violent games are not without their place. Achieving great celebrity in the Luthball circuit would put you in a very interesting diplomatic situation with the Valenar. Wouldn't it serve the High King's interests rather well to have agents spreading the wonders of Luthball across Khorvaire? Like Jet Li these atheletes would be seen as pinnacles of Valenar ability but also be a way of quietly removing the public objections to the actions of the Valenar. It would be hard to get too mad at Canada if for some reason they decided to invade without thinking of all of the good people and entertainers that have come from there. I would imagine a great Luthballer from, say, Thrane might one day find himself being wooed to support the Valenar agenda (if there were one.) Sorry my DM sense is tingling.. anyways there's my +2.
Okami 01-04-05, 11:19 AM	Ok.. I didn't mean Jet Li is a secret agent of China.. but the Beijing Wushu Team did serve diplomatic functions.