Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rake 09-14-05, 09:24 AM	...what exactly does that mean? I've heard it said here on the boards that Eberron isn't "mechanimagical", but that magic instead replaces technology. The warforged and the lightning rail seem pretty mechanimagical to me... mechanized vessels powered not by science but by magic? Yes? That seems like the definition of "mechanimagical" to me. Can someone explain the magic-over-technology game element to me? Or am I understanding the term incorrectly? I'm not challenging the notion, per se... I just feel like I don't get it.
The White Sorcerer 09-14-05, 09:27 AM	mechanized vessels powered not by science but by magic? No. They aren't mechanical anymore than a wand is mechanical.
Rake 09-14-05, 10:03 AM	Then why the high-technology feel of trains and robots? I guess that's what's throwing me off.
Nurgan_the_drunked 09-14-05, 10:49 AM	What Hi-tech feel exactly? There is a modern mentality in approach, hence the appearance of modification for Warforged, but there is no more "technology" than any other system. Warforged aren't robots, any more than golems are, and have no internal moving parts. Trains may feel hitech because they're, well, trains, but they're about as mechanical as a flying carpet. How would you create a massive freight carrying vehicle differently? When I say modern mentality, I mean people are approaching magic as a resource to be used in everyday life, warfare, construction, in much the same way as we approach technology. As a result, somethings approaching luxuries of modern life exist in the world. But references to technology, or "mechanimagical" are misplaced: no complex moving parts, steam power or electronics: just enchanted bit of metal and wood. It's probable that someone (maybe me) (mis?)interpretted "mechanimagical" as meaning "magic combined with tech" whereas you mean "pure magic used as tech is used". If you mean the latter, then you've actually got it right, and we're all arguing semantics wrong.
Siran Dunmorgan 09-14-05, 02:13 PM	Allow me, gentle reader, if you will, to be perfectly clear on this point: Arcane magic in Eberron is not a replacement for technology. Arcane magic in Eberron is a kind of technology. The magic vs. technology perspective is derived from works such as Roger Zelazny's marvelous novel Changeling, which depicted the 'forces' of magic and technology in opposition. But that's not the case here. It's just that magic happens to be more accessible than mechanical engineering for getting things done on Eberron: it's easier and more reliable to build a force-effect based 'winch' for hauling goods up from the docks off Sharn than it is to build and power a mechanical winch for the same purpose. Many devices in Eberron use principles both of mechanical engineering and of arcane magic to accomplish their ends, such as the seagoing stormship: it demonstrates a clear understanding of the hydrofoil principle, while using a bound elemental for propulsion. Equally clearly, the peoples of Khorvaire are adept at what we would call 'bioengineering' but House Vadalis calls 'magebreeding'. Their concern—and the concerns of the Valenar over their horses—clearly demonstrate an understanding of the principles we call Mendelian genetics. They may not know about DNA, but they don't have to in order to get their work done, because they have reliable transmutation magic that performs the same work more efficiently than a modern sequencing, splicing, and PCR laboratory. That said, they probably do understand germ theory to the point that they know why wounds need to be kept clean and dressed to prevent infection, and that one person in a swimming pool showing symptoms of a disease means that everyone in that swimming pool should get a healing check—or remove disease—as soon as feasible. The point of all of these examples is the same: arcane magic in Eberron is a branch of technology, not a replacement for it. —Siran Dunmorgan P.S. Note, by the way, that this is not an analogue to magic in the real world! Actual magic is completely different, both in perspective and application: it may supplement technology—most practicitioners of magic that I've met are inveterate gadget freaks—but is not a branch of it as is the case in Eberron.
Rake 09-14-05, 02:51 PM	The point of all of these examples is the same: arcane magic in Eberron is a branch of technology, not a replacement for it. —Siran Dunmorgan I think I've got it right, then? The rail, for example, is not entirely without scientific and mechanical elements, it (and the stones it travels on) is just created with and powered by magic (because, as you pointed out, magic is infinitely more efficient). Does that sound about right?
Siran Dunmorgan 09-14-05, 03:36 PM	I think I've got it right, then? The rail, for example, is not entirely without scientific and mechanical elements, it (and the stones it travels on) is just created with and powered by magic (because, as you pointed out, magic is infinitely more efficient). Does that sound about right? I hold this to be an accurate assessment of these parts of the Eberron setting, yes. :) An example involving the Lightning Rail might be that the windows are made of glass. Making the glass probably didn't involve any magical elements except possibly providing a fire of high, uniform heat. One way of looking at this is that in most settings, magic is something unique to magicians: this is near the heart of most of Barbara Hambly's fantasy novels: the idea that one is mageborn. But in Eberron it's understood that anyone can be a magician—Hellcow has given the example of the average Aundairan peasant taking the Spell Hand feat, i.e. even peasants with what we would think of as Middle School education and no special bloodline can cast spells. Wizards are just the people who dedicate their lives to it. —Siran Dunmorgan