Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DragonWatcher 10-13-05, 02:09 PM	Well, as of today, my FLGS has MoE in stock. I just picked mine up, and although I didn't have much time to read through it yet, it looks like it's chok-full-o-goodness. The first chapter seems to break down how magic is used in different regions throughout Eberron. The next chapter is all about character options, followed by spells and powers, then magic items, and finally creatures. I look forward to reading more this evening, but just wanted to let people know that the wait is over. Hopefully this book is as good as it seems.
Siran Dunmorgan 10-13-05, 02:51 PM	My Friendly Local Game Store has them in, but they won't actually sell me one until the official release date, which is tomorrow. According to the owner, Bad Things™ happen to stores that sell Wizards of the Coast products before the official dates. That said, the book does look rather intriguing, and I'm looking forward to perusing it at home, rather than in the store. —Siran Dunmorgan
Brastan 10-13-05, 03:05 PM	I was wondering when the first break would occur. Watcher, looks like you just volunteered to do the first review. Read you later this evening. :devil:
Edymnion 10-13-05, 03:27 PM	Yeah, we want a good review of whats in there! :D I particularly want to know how the Psiforged were handled. Are they actually presented as a (god forbid) subrace, or just body feats?
Jagermeister 10-13-05, 03:57 PM	Yeah, we want a good review of whats in there! :D I particularly want to know how the Psiforged were handled. Are they actually presented as a (god forbid) subrace, or just body feats? The book says they are not a separate race, and thankfully the body feat looks to be the route they took. You take Psiforged Body at level 1 much like you would otherwise take Mithral body, Adamantine body, etc..
DragonWatcher 10-13-05, 04:16 PM	Yeah, we want a good review of whats in there! :D I particularly want to know how the Psiforged were handled. Are they actually presented as a (god forbid) subrace, or just body feats? Jagermeister is correct. The book describes the psiforged as being a relatively recent occurance of warforged that seem to have originated in the Mournland, but also seem to be emerging from the depths below Sharn. They are inquisitive, and seek some greater understanding of everything around them. That said, they are not a seperate race, and there are no seperate stats for them. What makes a psiforged different than a normal warforged is the addition of the Psiforged Body feat at first level. This starts them off with one power point at first level, and another psionic perk that I don't know if I should mention at this time (though it's nothing huge). Other than that, they are just warforged, but obviously better suited toward psionic classes (much like the Kalashtar). More information will be posted tonight when I have a better chance to take a look at the book.
Edymnion 10-13-05, 04:34 PM	Heh, sounds like another coincidence of things I've put on the boards that have found their way into a book six months later ;) I guess great minds do think alike.
Urko 10-13-05, 04:47 PM	I just picked the book up over my lunch hour. I didn't have much time to look at it, so I mostly paged through to get a general overview. Wow. For such a skinny book, the amount of material is almost overwhelming. A few too many space-eating PrC's for my taste, but overall I'm very impressed with the amount and variety of material. If you used only half of what's there in your campaign, it would still be well worth it. A few things that jumped out at me: The new races: the psiforged are indeed just warforged who take the psi-forged body feat, not a :shudder: sub-race. Not really worth calling them a new race at all, although there is a bit of fluff about them. The daelkyr half-bloods are basically humans with the aberration type who start with a symbiont that they can upgrade as they gain levels. Psionic Artificer - basically a table of feat replacements. Elemental binding - lots of detail about the process involved and some interesting backstory Dragonshards - actual guidelines for pricing these things. Bunches of dragonshard items. New monsters - the vour and urdark appear to be experimental Karrnathi undead. A couple new quori, but they look like someone couldn't think of anything to do but copy the lobster-monster tsucora. Ho hum. Looking forward to delving into the book deeper.
TheShark(tm) 10-13-05, 05:38 PM	:love: Totally, man. Mwa. Mwa. Mwa. Urko - Appreciate the mini-review. I was curious about how this bad boy was going to look myself. :) I was really hoping that Clerical magic would be covered - but I guess doing that would preclude a Religions of Eberron book. ;)
Edymnion 10-13-05, 05:42 PM	For those that have the book and the free time, I have an important question: Can you give me a breakdown of how many new spells of each level there are? As in, X lvl 0 spells, Y lvl 1 spells, Z lvl 2 spells, etc? I really want to know if this book caters to the wide-magic philosophy of Eberron, or if they chocked it full of mid to high level attack spells like it was a Faerun suppliment.
Tek 10-13-05, 05:44 PM	Mwa. Mwa. Mwa. Mwa Mwa Mwa, indeed, but not directed at the book. :rolleyes:
Brastan 10-13-05, 05:49 PM	Not so TheShark(tm). There is a difference between the magical aspect of a Religion and its rituals and practices that make it up. Covering cleric/divine magic in MoE would not hinder the publication of a Religions of Eberron book. I would think that it would be more like Five Nations in style, with each major religion getting a chapter with its sub-religions being expanded. By Friday I'll be able to confirm my suspicions but it sounds like MoE is the book I hoped it would be. Expanding and fleshing the all so important role of magic in the setting.
The Dreaming Duck 10-13-05, 05:51 PM	A couple new quori, but they look like someone couldn't think of anything to do but copy the lobster-monster tsucora. Ho hum. Yes. I love the quori, so I'm happy to see anything new, and it's great to have some new quori/inspired artwork. But I am disappointed that nothing was done with the quori from Keith Baker's "Living Nightmares" article in Dragon. Not only were those completely non-lobstery, they also fed off different emotions - so while the tsucora inspires fear, the du'ulora feeds off anger and the hashalaq causes euphoria. This is more of a "Let's take a tsucora and make it a soulblade!" then "Let's consider what other creatures might evolve in a world of dreams" sort of thing. But I agree, there's a lot in the book... and more quori is better than none!
The Dreaming Duck 10-13-05, 05:58 PM	For those that have the book and the free time, I have an important question: Can you give me a breakdown of how many new spells of each level there are? As in, X lvl 0 spells, Y lvl 1 spells, Z lvl 2 spells, etc? Combining class lists and spells and infusions to save time, 8 lvl 1 (many shared across multiple classes), 14 lvl 2, 6 lvl 3, 4 lvl 4, 7 lvl 5, 5 lvl 6, 3 lvl 7, 1 lvl 8. (it's possible I missed one or two because of class overlap, but it's close.) Frankly, it would have been neat to see a few more cantrips or really common spells, and there's a few weird choices over who gets what (I would have given artificers speaking stones and the enhanced versions of magic weapon, but that's me). As for psionic powers, 4 lvl 2, 5 lvl 3, 1 lvl 5.
Edymnion 10-13-05, 06:48 PM	Okay, well its good that there is a fair bit of low level stuff, and not much high level at all. So far its got my seal of approval :D
Urko 10-13-05, 07:25 PM	Home now, thumbing through the book. Some more random items of interest: 2 new Inspired. I'm not certain how necessary this is, since the Inspired work more or less like templates, but I guess pre-fab stats can always be a time saver. The one neat thing is that each of the two (Inspired Shock Trooper and Inspired Inquisitor) make use of one of the two new Quori. Dragon Totem rituals - spend a bunch of money, get a special ability (improved senses, flight, natural weapons, breath weapons - dragony stuff) that lasts 24 hours. Gotta have a new feat (Dragon Totem Lorekeeper) to perform the ritual. Cool thing: if you've got the money (ok, dragonshards) to burn, you can do several at once. More grafts and symbionts than you can shake a stick at (unless maybe you've got the Shaking Stick plant graft. Ok, I made that up). All the grafts/symbionts have equivalent GP values so you can sub them for other treasures. Wait until the players in my Age of Worms campaign get to the grimlock caverns...) Schemas (and their associated creation feat). Basically work like reusable scrolls (1x/day - many special provisions). In the fluff it says that a magewright could use one to create hundreds of continual flame torches in a single day. I don't see how, given the rules. Everytime I think I understand schemas (and I've read most of what Hellcow has written on the subject) my head just hurts more. Lots of nifty alchemical items, clothes, special materials, even a couple new kinds of documents (indulgences and leniences). Must dive back in. My head is swimming.
Decree Of Boredom 10-13-05, 07:37 PM	Could you give us the general gist of the Alchemist Savant and Renegade Mastermaker prcs? Also, the rundown on new homunculi?
Urko 10-13-05, 07:54 PM	Homunculi - a self-shooting crossbow, a walking chest with some handy quick fetch/delivery abilities, and a lil' guy who helps you flank and has a sneak attack. Alchemical Savant: Cannith potion spcialists, can make potions of targetable spells and universal potions (you don't decide what they are til you use them). Renegade Mastermaker: "Cyborgs" (mix humanoid/warforged traits) while continuing to advance in spellcasting ability.
kilamanjaro 10-13-05, 08:10 PM	No Blood Magus base class?
Jagermeister 10-13-05, 08:10 PM	I am particularly fond of the attention and new material on Dragonshards in the book. From spell uses, infusions, to a lengthy table of new items and such. It's good to see more ways to use Dragonshards.
Tek 10-13-05, 08:51 PM	No Blood Magus base class? Indeed my question aswell.
anarco_rata 10-13-05, 08:59 PM	:eek: psionics :eek: psionic artificer :eek: i want it :eek: now :weep: rigth...venezuela...i will never get it...
Majorafire77 10-13-05, 09:58 PM	Can someone tell me what the Husk of Infinite Worlds (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91490.jpg) is (just a short description)? The picture looks amazing but I have no clue what it does.
makeshiftwings 10-13-05, 11:27 PM	Can someone tell me what the Husk of Infinite Worlds (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91490.jpg) is (just a short description)? The picture looks amazing but I have no clue what it does. I was wondering the same thing...
KingNeo 10-13-05, 11:39 PM	What about the Blood Magus base class? No love. No love. And does the Renegade Mastermaker make that person into an actual Warforged?
taski 10-14-05, 12:21 AM	No Blood Magus. The Renegade Mastermaker does become a warforged at 10th level, and other nifty abilities like self-repairing and a lot of spell progression. The Breed is now the Daelkyr Half-Blood. If an expectant mother spends too much time near a Daekyr, or infected by a breed leech, her kid will end up funny and with a "twin" that is actually the kid's personal symbiont. The Husk of Infinite Worlds is a Daekyr creature-altering machine. It summons up "pseudo-realities," which in turn change the creature inside it, or, 99% of the time, kill it. Basicly an eldritch machine that your PCs really, really don't want to go into. There are some utility spells, like clothier's closet. It conjures up some clothes for you and your party. A few spells also have special benifits if the caster has the right Dragonmark.
polt 10-14-05, 03:33 AM	Man, this book sounds amazing.
Just another user 10-14-05, 05:55 AM	a walking chest with some handy quick fetch/delivery abilities, Wow, they made The Luggage for D&D? Did it have a bite attack? ;)
DragonWatcher 10-14-05, 09:22 AM	Well... between work and school, one of them always gets in the way. :P So, much of this has already been covered, but here's my review: I was able to read (or at least browse) through much of the book last night. The first chapter is entirely fluff about how magic is perceived and what role it takes in different parts of the world from Aerenal to Karnath to Elemental Binding in Zilargo and Xen'drick. No messy crunch here to get in the way... just pure fluffy goodness. The info on dragonshards is great. Finally we have a basis for pricing these items, along with a feel for how common they are, where to find them, and how big they generally are. Most of the coolest things in the book seem to be based around the Draconic Prophesy. There are feats (a good number of them) that allow a PC to tap into the Prophecy to gain special benefits. There's a Prestige Class based around the prophecy that lets you use these feats in other ways as well. Much of the book builds off of itself. What I mean by this is, in the creatures section you have new symbionts and grafts (both elemental and deathless). There are rules for adding grafts, and then there are Prestige Classes based around having said grafts or symbionts. Prestige Classes: Alchemist Savant: Member of House Cannith who specializes in doing things with potions that just couldn't be done before. Deadgrim: A member of a secret Karnathi order that hunts undead, but becomes more and more like an undead as they level. Impure Prince: Aberration hunting class that uses symbionts and becomes more like an aberration himself as he advances. Renegade Mastermaker: An artificer (or other spellcaster) who attaches warforged parts to himself and ultimately becomes a warforged himself. The two that I can't remember the exact names for at the moment: Dragon Prophet: With a dragon as a mentor, members of this PrC gain marks based on the draconic constellations that give them their abilities. Aerenal Agent: Basically an elite warrior, and secret agent of the undying court (no, this PrC doesn't transform you into an undying). The magic items in this book are great... they have a distinct Eberron feel to them. There are a bunch of dragonshard items, and a good deal of artificer items. All in all, they remind me of the magic items found in the back of the Explorers handbook, where most of them work for anyone to some extent, but if you meet certain prereqs they have a more potent ability. For example, anyone can wear the strange new belt item called an Extra Arm, and have the arm that's attached to it hold an item for easy retreival. However, if you're an artificer and channel an infusion into it, the arm becomes even more useful. The creatures seem to be pretty interesting. I'm also not sure why we need different types of inspired, since they advance by class, but whatever. The different Quori are cool, but I would certainly like to see more. To be honest, I was a little disappointed that there isn't any demons, rakshasas, or the like in this book. All in all, I'm happy with what it's got. Now, the downside... There's no mention of a Blood Magus core class. In fact, the psionic artificer is simply a table that gives the conversion of abilities from the normal Artificer. So really, there's no new core classes at all in this book. There's nearly nothing about divine magic mentioned. With as big as the various druidic traditions are in Eberron, I was really hoping to see more on them. However, now I'm going to have to hope for a book on divine magic to come out. So, I would have to say that I would give it 4 out of 5 stars. I haven't been able to read it cover to cover critically yet, but there don't seem to be many contradictory bits of fluff or crunch in this one, which is a nice change of pace. Oh yeah, one last thing... it appears that this book isn't gonna be the one that starts putting an index into the back of Eberron material. No index here either. :(
thebassu 10-14-05, 10:32 AM	In fact, the psionic artificer is simply a table that gives the conversion of abilities from the normal Artificer. So really, there's no new core classes at all in this book. So, for those of you that have read the book, or those who are GM's, can a "normal" Artificer take Psionic Item Creation Feats?
Thwyvylyn 10-14-05, 10:41 AM	I say this without having MoE. I am using SRD material only for this + the artificer. Technically they could if they do 2 things first. 1. They must take the Wild Talent Feat. This gives them access to the psionic crafting feats. 2. They must take either A. a manifester class with UPD as a class skill or B. Use the Human paragon to get it or C. Take it as a cross class skill but this last option seriously ups the difficulty of crafting psionic things. That should allow them to make stuff but I am not completely sure. Any crunch-hounds out there want to double check me?
Jagermeister 10-14-05, 11:35 AM	So, for those of you that have read the book, or those who are GM's, can a "normal" Artificer take Psionic Item Creation Feats? The book states that once you have levels in one you can't mix with the other. So if you were a Psionic Artificer, you couldn't switch to normal Artificer. I imagine this is intended to carry over into feat selection, but who knows. I'll read a little closer and get back to you. *** On closer look, it says a Psionic Artificer cannot emulate spells to create magic items, so there is your answer from one end. Since the Psionic Artificer can't cross over, I would assume that the normal Artificer can't either, although it isn't explicitly stated in the book. I suppose you could be a Psionic Artificer, and take levels of Wizard in order to acquire magic item creation feats or somesuch, or you could be a normal Artificer and take levels of a psionic class to gain access to Psionic item creation feats...but both of these options are the only way I can think of to get around the "no cross-over" aspect in MoE.
Brastan 10-14-05, 11:41 AM	The ability to make and use all items sounds like something a PrC should handle with the end ability to create one or two minor artifacts. I wouldn't expect to do it with just the artificer alone. The Psionic Artificer sounds more like a specialty wizard in nature. We'll I'll be off to buy a copy soon. I'm running a game tonight and the Renegade Mastermaker just what I need. :evillaugh
Joni-san 10-14-05, 11:57 AM	I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! I want it! :dancin: That order can't come fast enough... :twitch: 2 weeks is far too long to wait... :bigeyes: Mieeeooooooop! :crazy:
Kerrara 10-14-05, 01:03 PM	fungal graft nodules that grow from your skin, you break off, and then eat.REALLY. I'm pretty much left speechless.
Chiyo 10-14-05, 01:47 PM	Renegade Mastermaker sounds so crunchy, I'll have to get that book to see if mine can become one. :) Thanks for the insight into the book's content. Sounds like a good buy overall.
pseudonym 10-14-05, 02:08 PM	What is this Blood Magus people keep asking about? Was there some sort Eberron specific reason to expect that it would be there, or is it just some wet dream people have?
DragonWatcher 10-14-05, 02:16 PM	What is this Blood Magus people keep asking about? Was there some sort Eberron specific reason to expect that it would be there, or is it just some wet dream people have? An RPG review site posted information about Magic of Eberron containing a Blood Magus core class. However, either it got cut from the final copy, or they were simply confused.
pseudonym 10-14-05, 02:21 PM	An RPG review site posted information about Magic of Eberron containing a Blood Magus core class. However, either it got cut from the final copy, or they were simply confused. Ah, thanks for the info. Which site was that?
Takasi 10-14-05, 02:41 PM	Ah, thanks for the info. Which site was that? I haven't heard of the site, but it was in the last Dragon magazine preview of MoE.
polt 10-14-05, 02:46 PM	Now for the million dollar question. How is this for a player, and how is it for a DM?
DragonWatcher 10-14-05, 02:57 PM	Now for the million dollar question. How is this for a player, and how is it for a DM? Appeals to Players: - Fluff - Feats - New Race - New Class Option - Prestige Classes - Magic Items - Spells and Psionic Powers Appeals to DMs: - Fluff - Adventure Hooks - Sample NPCs - Creatures - Everything in the player list can be used to make NPCs memorable and challenging. All in all, I think that it's a win/win.
polt 10-14-05, 03:01 PM	How about any "revealing" information? Like Kaius is REALLY a troll.
Majorafire77 10-14-05, 03:27 PM	Just out of curiousity, what was the big deal about the "Blood Magus core class" anyway? Was it the main thing they used to make MoE sound like it was worth your cash or what? I don't have that issue so I wouldn't know. Plus, we already have a Blood Magus in CA. Sure, it's not a core class, but would you really want a core class that was basically a PrC that was toned down and expanded to fit 20 levels? I, for one, am happy that that didn't happen.
Brastan 10-14-05, 03:45 PM	Checking back in. Sorry Polt I got no news on that end. I think everyone that's bought it has been stunned by chapter two on back. Although the book itself is rather small, around 160 pages, it's dense. Thick with magical expansion. I got it about two hours ago and haven't even looked even looked at chapter one. I'd say give it till Tuesday for any error or inconstancies to surface and be confirmed. (I think I found a mechanics base one but I want to let sit in my own mind for a bit.) :D Lovely lovely Mastermaker. :cloud9: Now I don't have to complain about a Monster book for Constructs as much. Improved Homunculus is nice little feat ;). :evillaugh The King's gone mad with power! He's trying to eat the Chort!
Urko 10-14-05, 04:04 PM	How about any "revealing" information? Well, there is a bit of backstory about how the gnomes learned elemental binding. It's a secret the Trust closely guards, but the story isn't as exciting a revelation as the secrets of a certain well known Karrnathi monarch.
The White Sorcerer 10-14-05, 04:42 PM	Prestige Classes Looking at the art gallery (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20051010a), I see that some of the PrC art is named incorrectly. Would you be as kind as to link the classes to their respective illustrations? Oh, and elaborate on the two classes you couldn't remember before.
Brastan 10-14-05, 05:09 PM	In the order they appear. Alchemist Savant (http://wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/84587.jpg) Deadgrim (http://wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91504.jpg) Dragon Prophet (http://wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91469.jpg) Elemental Scion of Zilargo (http://wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91470.jpg) Impure Prince (http://wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91471.jpg) Quori Mindhunter (http://wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91472.jpg) Renegade Mastermaker (http://wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91468.jpg) Vigilant Sentinel of Aerenal (http://wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91473.jpg)
kilamanjaro 10-14-05, 05:09 PM	Just out of curiousity, what was the big deal about the "Blood Magus core class" anyway? Was it the main thing they used to make MoE sound like it was worth your cash or what? I don't have that issue so I wouldn't know. Plus, we already have a Blood Magus in CA. Sure, it's not a core class, but would you really want a core class that was basically a PrC that was toned down and expanded to fit 20 levels? I, for one, am happy that that didn't happen. No big deal. I read in Dragon that it was in there and was curious about it, especially when it didn't show up in the art gallery.
KingNeo 10-14-05, 06:41 PM	Ok now that everybody has a copy of Magic of Eberron, except me :weep:, I have two questions. The first question, are their any specfic rules for changling Renegade Mastermaker? The second question, can a Renegade Mastermaker become a Warforged Juggernaught, and if so what type of impediments does a Mastermaker get for doing so? Yes, you know I was going to ask that. Sure he might lose a couple of levels of magic but he will be immune to anything that hits him. Oh yeah and why can't a person take both the regular and Psionic Artificer. That sucks. I mean I was looking forward to attaining all the magical and psionic items in the world. :confused: ( :weep: Broken Dream :weep: )
Crimsonsun 10-14-05, 07:17 PM	The second question, can a Renegade Mastermaker become a Warforged Juggernaught, and if so what type of impediments does a Mastermaker get for doing so? Yes, you know I was going to ask that. Sure he might lose a couple of levels of magic but he will be immune to anything that hits him. Looking over it, it seems so, as long as you plan well. At 10th level, the RM can take a warforged feat, even the first level ones (so giving you the adamantine body) Also, it solves the problem of artificer and prestige classes. Infusions caster levels WILL count for spellcaster levels (Yay, we can be Effigy creators now!) and they will benefit from +1 to spellcasting level as if they gained another arti level, but no craft reserve, etc...
Tek 10-14-05, 08:36 PM	Oh yeah and why can't a person take both the regular and Psionic Artificer.) The same reason you can't take Ranger (Two Weapon Fighting) and then start again from level 1 and take Ranger (Archery) to become Ranger (TWF) 5 / Ranger (Archery) 7
Inkling 10-14-05, 08:51 PM	How about any "revealing" information? Like Kaius is REALLY a troll.Yeah, here's a doozy: despite what we were told 5 months ago in the Aerenal Dragonshard, Aeren isn't really a woman who died before she reached Aerenal, but now she's a man who was the first deathless (and apparently is still around somewhere). I can't wait to see how they write themselves out of this screw up...since the Aereni are obsessed with ancestor worship and keep detailed records of all their ancestors, there's no way they can say "this is just one of the many conflicting legends of the Aereni people". This book wasn't cheap, I think 30 bucks per book is more than enough money for them to hire someone to read the book once through to find any obvious mistakes, but if money is such a problem, why doesn't WotC hand out a couple books to some real fans to act as "beta testers" who will find all the mistakes for them for free?
Flame_Drake 10-14-05, 08:54 PM	Yeah, here's a doozy: despite what we were told 5 months ago in the Aerenal Dragonshard, Aeren isn't really a woman who died before she reached Aerenal, but now she's a man who was the first deathless (and apparently is still around somewhere). I can't wait to see how they write themselves out of this screw up...since the Aereni are obsessed with ancestor worship and keep detailed records of all their ancestors, there's no way they can say "this is just one of the many conflicting legends of the Aereni people". Keith has already done his best to rectify the situation: Hey Keith, just to let you know, there seems to have been an unfortunate continuity issue between Magic of Eberron and your Dragonshard on the Aerenal. In the Dragonshard, Aeren is female and laid to rest in the new land of Aerenal. In Magic of Eberron, Aeren is male and, well, the term laid to rest may not apply, I won't spoil that part for people. edit: So my question is, do you see these as alternate versions of a legend (which I might buy if it wasn't for the fact that it's the Aerenal who probably can be trusted to remember the gender of their savior) or should one version be ignored? It's a complex issue. First off, while Dragonshard articles are approved by WotC design, they are certainly on the bottom of the canon spectrum. They don't go through the same extended development cycle as sourcebooks, and because of the number of them, there will be designers who simply don't notice them. The question here is whether the MoE author was familiar with the Dragonshard and intentionally contradicted it, or simply never saw it, which I think is more likely to be the case. Given the lead time of sourcebooks, it's actually possible the author wrote this section before the Dragonshard was even posted. In any case, sourcebook vs dragonshard? The sourcebook takes priority, at least in terms of determining what's official. This specific case is a little trickier, because we pit sourcebook against sourcebook. The legend implies that there never really was a military uprising: Aeren only confided in one hundred other elves, who launched a suprise magical suicide assault that disoriented the giant rulers long enough for slaves to escape; we're told that the elves "slipped away" in the tumult, and that it was Aeren's recovered notes that provided the details about the ritual of the Undying. The problem is that this clashes with the ECS itself on multiple points. The ECS says that "the ancient Aereni elves bought their freedom with blood and magic, and elf bards still sing of their heroic deeds." The Tairnadal brought their warhorses from Xen'drik, and "honor their ancestors by emulating their heoric deeds in the present" - and believe that "glory in battle is the highest goal." Furthermore, the implication of page 224 is that the giants are fighting a long and bitter battle against the elves: "-39,000... Horrible curses and plagues sweep through the land, and the elves use the opportunity to rebel. In desperatation, the giants again turn to the same magic they use to stop the quori..." This implies that the giants had their backs to the wall. My motivation with the legend in my Dragonshard was that the elves weren't fleeing from the giants: they were fleeing from the cataclysm Aeren saw in the future, which was in fact the destruction brought to Xen'drik by the dragons. The MoE legend doesn't quite add up with that: the elves do not appear to be fighting the giants, there's little to inspire the Tairnadal to behave as they do. And, of course, according to the ECS the Undying Court first appears in -25,000, in part due to the strong manifest zones that suffuse Aerenal; if it was possible to perform these rituals anywhere, and if the elves had the ritual 13,000 years earlier, I wouldn't expect them to have waited so long to use it. Now, one way to reconcile this is to say that the ancestors of the Tairnadal were actively fighting the giants while the people Aeren freed were an entirely separate group of slaves that lacked the martial skills of the Tairnadal, and that they joined together when they fled the land and settled Aerenal; this may even be what the author had in mind. Anyhow. Dragonshard aside (bottom of the canon food chain, as I said) this is in conflict with the ECS and RoE. There will be more about history of the elves in the future (for example, you might see something in, say, a Xen'drik sourcebook), and it's going to go one way or the other; as I'm not a WotC employee, I can't tell you which they'll support, and whether this contradiction was accidental or intentional. Personally, this specifically CALLS itself a legend, so I would treat it as a legend and rely on the information of the ECS. However, I would keep an eye on future sourcebooks and see if they back this up. With that said, I have to say that I'm very pleased with Magic of Eberron. This is the first Eberron sourcebook that I literally didn't even lay eyes on until it was in print, and I have to admit that I was nervous about it. However, with the exception of this one story - which calls itself a legend - and one or two points about the quori that contradict Races of Eberron, I've found it to be full of flavorful and interesting material, both fluff and crunch. There's certainly a lot of things I'm going to be using in my campaign, both as a DM and for my warforged artificer in Mark of Heroes. And if the worst problem I have is a contradictory legend about events that happened 38,000 years ago? I think it's doing pretty well for itself. This book wasn't cheap, I think 30 bucks per book is more than enough money for them to hire someone to read the book once through to find any obvious mistakes, but if money is such a problem, why doesn't WotC hand out a couple books to some real fans to act as "beta testers" who will find all the mistakes for them for free? Because that would mean giving out free books. That alone would be reason for a company such as WotC not want to take that course of action. That said, if Hellcow and some of the other staff that are very familar with the setting could read it over, that would likely be best. Still Keith did say this is the first book that he hasn't seen before it went to press and the only mistakes he has seem to found are this one and something involving a Quori contradiction, as he said. Then again, the Quori are his children, so you can't expect anything to slip by him :) Cheers; Drake
Flame_Drake 10-14-05, 09:03 PM	Sorry double post
Inkling 10-14-05, 09:16 PM	EDIT: I'll move my rant to the Inconsistencies thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7502154#post7502154
Arcane Guyver 10-14-05, 09:19 PM	This book sounds *tight*. That's easily the most new psionic powers in one book since...the XPH. The handling of the Psiforged & Psionic Artificer sounds exactly the way I wanted, too. On a side note: I honestly think they're trying to start up a tradition of at least one bizarre cannon contradiction in every new sourcebook.
Illvillainy 10-14-05, 09:26 PM	They need to do something, have you seen how big the Inconsistencies thread has gotten? Half of it is inconsequential nitpicking, to be honest. Anyway, I agree with Keith, if that's all that's wrong with MoE, I don't see the point of making that much of a fuss.
Inkling 10-14-05, 09:38 PM	Half of it is inconsequential nitpicking, to be honest. Anyway, I agree with Keith, if that's all that's wrong with MoE, I don't see the point of making that much of a fuss.You're right, MofE is a cool book overall, I just got on a rant because it seems like such an obvious mistake that could have been caught so easily. Let's see, how about some positive things to say? The new elemental grafts and magic items for artificers are worth the 30 bucks right there. New and Improved Homunculi: oh baby! As a role-player I like the book for its fluff, but as a power gamer I stay for the crunch!
PoeticJustice 10-15-05, 06:41 AM	This is a great book. I was going to make a thread to post reviews, but it makes more sense to post here. The book is deceptively small; one would never guess the amount of material contained within just by looking at the book itself. Come to think of it, most Eberron books follow this thread. I think it has to do with font size; were this material to be printed in core style, it would take half-again as many pages. The first chapter of this book are reminiscent of the Encyclopedia Magica and the Tome of Magic in their attention to minutiae that had previously been left to DM fiat. This is the first time in post 3e sourcebook that they've meticulously broken down the specific processes of magic. No longer will there be questions regarding how Elemental Binding works. The chapter continues with information on Dragonshards, including general pricing guidelines. It concludes with an okay (but only okay) write-up of the various factions on Eberron and their various magical practices. These are good starting places, but will require extensive work to squeeze an adventure out of. Chapter 2 kicks off the Player Options, beginning with the two new races . The Daelkyr Half-Blood and Psiforged feel ecletic at best, arbitrary at worst. That said, the chapter details player options, and it is good to have these options available, even if I don't foresee using them. After the new races, the book descends into a wealth of game data that easily incorporated into almost any campaign. This begins with the entry regarding Dragon Totem rituals. Conducting these rituals seems like a major pain in the ass, as one doesn't even qualify for the requisite feat until level 15. These rituals are probably meant as rewards a draconic patron might give its party, rather than resource a PC might want access to on a regular basis. Next are the feats. Almost all of these are solid, particularly the psionic ones. There are a few that are superfluous in that they merely provide a transparancy between psionic and magic systems (i.e. Wand Mastery and Dorje Mastery). Then again, it a chapter on player options, and having the option is nice, and a majority of the feats I would have never considered. Chapter three devotes itself to Presitge classes, which are...weird. We're definetely not in Complete XXXX Kansas anymore. I am very happy to report that all of these PrCs feel prestigous, if only a little overly-narrow in application. Also, these classes probably aren't something a player could just look at and decide to play in 5 minutes. The Cannith Alchemist Savant requires a trudging through a bit of legalese to fully grasp, but this is a step in the right direction compared to previous WotC offerings. The fourth chapter concerns itself with spells and psionic powers. There was some intial fear that this section would be mis-written and include primarily high-level spells and a slew of combat evocations. This fear was unfounded. In fact, the paradigm for Eberron magic, detailing the emphasis on low-level and utility magic is the very first thing written in the chapter. The spells themselves are of good quality. The artificer gets the shaft on new infusions, compared to what Sor/Wiz's get, but I suck at balancing game data, so take that last statement with a grain of salt. Chapter 5 is a doozy. It covers magic items, and after reading half of this chapter, a good DM should never want for a piece of treasure again. Earth Elemental-Bound vessals, new Quori shards (which are pretty good), new elemental bound weapons, armor, and magic items (which are impressive), and the new artificer oriented items (which are intriguing), grafts, schemae, alchemy, and many more. A wish I could say more about specific items, but I'm already taking long enough. The final chapter is a short bestiary. Its not the book's high point, and if you're looking for an iconic Eberron monster, then look elsewhere. This chapter's offerings consist of a few pedestrian quori, their forms as Inspired, a few undead, and some symbionts and homunculi. If anyone has any specific questions, feel free to ask. One final note: This book conspicuously lacks divine support. This leads me to believe there will be a separate sourcebook devoted to divine magic and religion in general within the next year or two.
Thramzorean 10-15-05, 08:38 AM	Daeklyr magic was mentioned in the previews - is there a section on this, a few spells, that elritch machine only, or what? I've a very vested interest in this part as to whether I make emgency arrangements for a copy to be bought and sent half way round the planet. I will definitely appreciate an answer here! :)
PoeticJustice 10-15-05, 08:58 AM	It depends on what you want to do with Daelkyr magic. 1) You want to play an insane mage that uses psychedelic magic to befuddle his opponents. 2) You want to play a warped creature that possesses unnatural and creepy organs. If the answer is one, you're out of luck. There are 2 or 3 spells that chieve this end, but Far Realm magic is given a better treatment in Dragon 330. If the answer is 2, then you should like the 8 or so symbionts in the back of the book, as well as the Impure Prince PrC, which transforms you into an (self-hating) aberration over the course of five levels. There is also the husk of infinite worlds, but your DM would have to be insane to give it to you.
TheRedRobedWizard 10-15-05, 09:40 AM	My take on the whole Dragonshard vs Magic of Eberron stories on Aereni is as follows: 1) The story in the Dragonshard is the story that the elves tell outsiders. 2) The story in Magic of Eberron is what actually happened. Or vice versa. Your campaign, your ruling. More to the topic at hand, I am kinda disappointed that we were supposed to get another base class, and it was cut. We'll all survive, though. I promise. -TRRW
Thramzorean 10-15-05, 09:49 AM	It depends on what you want to do with Daelkyr magic. 1) You want to play an insane mage that uses psychedelic magic to befuddle his opponents. 2) You want to play a warped creature that possesses unnatural and creepy organs. If the answer is one, you're out of luck. There are 2 or 3 spells that chieve this end, but Far Realm magic is given a better treatment in Dragon 330. If the answer is 2, then you should like the 8 or so symbionts in the back of the book, as well as the Impure Prince PrC, which transforms you into an (self-hating) aberration over the course of five levels. There is also the husk of infinite worlds, but your DM would have to be insane to give it to you. Thanks, my fear was they had something really neat for 1. The rest I can catch up with in due course...
Atlictoatl 10-15-05, 09:52 AM	I guess I'll be the one dissenting voice here. I think the book isn't worth it, and have returned it to the store I got it from. I explain why more in a separate thread with a descriptive title, but this book should have been named something like Aberrations of Eberron, not Magic of Eberron. Sure, it explores some of the weird anomalies of magic on Eberron, but it's much more like Book of Madness or Libris Mortis than Magic of Faerun; i.e. it's useful for the DM or player who wants to introduce bizarre things, but it doesn't strengthen the fundamental premises of the game world much. Argonnessen, Daelkyr, and Aerenal are all quite important historically, but are they so overpoweringly relevant to present-day Khorvaire that no mention of the Arcane Congress, the Twelve, or other arcane- or divine- based organizations or traditions merit mention?
PoeticJustice 10-15-05, 10:22 AM	Arcanix was covered extensively throughout Five Nations. The twelve were given passing reference in the Explorer's handbook. Covering them further would be unnecessary.
Atlictoatl 10-15-05, 11:38 AM	Arcanix was covered extensively throughout Five Nations. The twelve were given passing reference in the Explorer's handbook. Covering them further would be unnecessary. Arcanix was covered extremely poorly in Five Nations, and doesn't cover the Arcane Congress or its agencies. The Twelve are still fundamentally underdeveloped. I would have liked some actual, tangible, useful development from Magic of Eberron on these core arcane entities in Khorvaire, as they play a much larger role in my campaign than the magic of either Aerenal or Argonnessen. As a positive, MoE provides artificers with some needed additional crunch. But then, I'd much rather see a whole book devoted to that subject.
Hellcow 10-15-05, 02:41 PM	Still Keith did say this is the first book that he hasn't seen before it went to press and the only mistakes he has seem to found are this one and something involving a Quori contradiction, as he said. To be fair, it's not as if I've been over the book with a fine tooth comb. I have to admit, the statement that every artificer in Breland knows about Merrix's forge does seem a little off to me... but that's something I can easily ignore. So I'm not PROMISING that there's nothing odd in the book - I'm just saying that I wasn't overwhelmed by a horde of contradictions, and that in my first pass, I saw a lot of things that I thought looked interesting.
The White Sorcerer 10-15-05, 03:34 PM	I have to admit, the statement that every artificer in Breland knows about Merrix's forge does seem a little off to me... Has heard a few rumors != knows.
Brastan 10-15-05, 03:58 PM	Has heard a few rumors != knows. That's how I read it to(if I'm looking at the right section). It's like saying how everyone knows that the US government has a secret alien research base in the Nevada Desert called Area 51. True or not they know it. There are also people who would give their "left hand" to be able to spend one day there looking aournd at all of the advaced technology. In Merrix's case the rumors happen to be true but I would guess that most people who find that out end up dead or lost in Xen'drik.
Hellcow 10-15-05, 03:59 PM	Has heard a few rumors != knows. Quite true. But if that many people have heard a few rumors, than one would think word would have reached the ears of, say, the king, who might take an interest. But I do agree with you in principle, TWS: the key issue he is "How solid are those rumors?", and this up to the DM to play up or down. Like it? Great, you HAVE heard a few rumors that really make it sound like Merrix is still producing warforged - maybe you've met someone who knows a warforged who claims to have been created by Merrix. Dislike it? Sure, you've heard that Merrix is still producing warforged. You've also heard that the Kundarak dwarves excrete gold, that the Barons of House Thuranni are all vampires, that whenever a Jorasco halfling heals you he gains a permanent magical bond to you, that members of House Deneith are possessed by demons, and goodness knows what else. It's all a question of how reasonable the rumors appear to be - whether people will automatically accept them as fact or dismiss them as fancy.
Hellcow 10-15-05, 04:00 PM	It's like saying how everyone knows that the US government has a secret alien research base in the Nevada Desert called Area 51. Good example.
Just another user 10-15-05, 04:06 PM	Quite true. But if that many people have heard a few rumors, than one would think word would have reached the ears of, say, the king, who might take an interest. but knowing Merrix d' Cannith don't you think that the king, or other person for him, don't already suspect that he is continuing his experiments? Or they really think that a little thing like the tretay of thronehold is enough to make him stop the work of a life?
Joni-san 10-15-05, 04:39 PM	Now that I remember: Any info on the Funky Weapons from the Art gallery? (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91492.jpg). Are they in? Plus other stuff from the art Gallery (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20051010a). Anything you can tell us?
The White Sorcerer 10-15-05, 04:48 PM	Any info on the Funky Weapons from the Art gallery? (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/moe_gallery/91492.jpg). Are they in? ? Indeed. Have my prayers been answered? Can I finally shoot stupid NPCs. In the head. With a hammer.
Joni-san 10-15-05, 05:15 PM	If it is indeed in... One can finally shoot NPCs in the head. With a hammer. And for some reason. I hear this. Post. In. Faux. Shatner. Voice I really. Should. Quit. Now.
The White Sorcerer 10-15-05, 05:57 PM	If it is indeed in... One can finally shoot NPCs in the head. With a hammer. :w00t: Yosha~! EDIT: It's not out in Finland yet, is it? I'm getting a bit impatient. Me wants Magic of Eberron (and Heroes of Horror)!
Joni-san 10-15-05, 06:18 PM	I am as much in the dark as you are. And you live closer to the FLGS. I have to wait for RoE to be released. Then it takes time to pack my order. Then I have to wait for 2 weeks for my order to arrive. :twitch: And apparently it has not released :twitch: And did you by any chanse see fridays Conan O'Brien? Don't miss monday's Conan under any circumstance... :cool:
Atlictoatl 10-15-05, 09:09 PM	To be fair, it's not as if I've been over the book with a fine tooth comb. I have to admit, the statement that every artificer in Breland knows about Merrix's forge does seem a little off to me... but that's something I can easily ignore. So I'm not PROMISING that there's nothing odd in the book - I'm just saying that I wasn't overwhelmed by a horde of contradictions, and that in my first pass, I saw a lot of things that I thought looked interesting. See, for me, that statement was made in the first moments of reading the book, and it colored my whole perspective of the book as abusive of canon. Far simpler for the author to not have made such a casual comment, nor later comments that played with the edge of canon, and thus to have avoided the potential controversy. It's sloppy writing to make such broad-based statements without researching to ensure they aren't conflictual, even when the intent of the statement is misunderstood.
stembolt 10-16-05, 03:10 AM	Heh, sounds like another coincidence of things I've put on the boards that have found their way into a book six months later ;) I guess great minds do think alike. Interesting, but what would that have to do with you then? A more appropriate aphorism would be the one about chimps typing Shakespeare or the one where you throw enough stuff at a wall. If you make a thousand posts chance alone will dictate that one of them will be similar to something official. See, for me, that statement was made in the first moments of reading the book, and it colored my whole perspective of the book as abusive of canon. Far simpler for the author to not have made such a casual comment, nor later comments that played with the edge of canon, and thus to have avoided the potential controversy. It's sloppy writing to make such broad-based statements without researching to ensure they aren't conflictual, even when the intent of the statement is misunderstood. For comparison we have to go no further than FR. Back when I played FR we used to ask if they kept anything the same when a new book came out. Or if that’s not good enough look at any other RPG. Perfect consistency is hard, in fact it is impossible. You should spend your time worrying less about inconsistencies and more about cool things you CAN do. Seriously, your players would appreciate it. That being said I would as a DM prefer to see a little more of the whys mixed in. Like with Aren. Was it intended that the PCs might interact with shim? Personally I would not make anyone that old to preserve the mystery of Xen’drik, so why did the Author do it? Did they have a good reason?
Atlictoatl 10-16-05, 11:53 PM	Perfect consistency is hard, in fact it is impossible. You should spend your time worrying less about inconsistencies and more about cool things you CAN do. Seriously, your players would appreciate it. Sourcebook writers get caught up in providing color for the thing they are writing about, but this is much better done by showing, not telling. We would all rather have an interesting artificer organization we can either use directly or to inspire something in our own campaign than some throwaway comment that may or may not be true, depending on the DM's game. If psiforged are going to be in the book, I'd much rather have a list of potential sources for them (or rumors of same) than something dictating their origin to me that seriously shadows a major NPC introduced in core material. And *why* waste valuable page space with bland journal entries? Instead of paying $30 and ignoring Cordell's pages on the subject, I can just make them up myself. It's not like psiforged are that innovative of a concept, one we couldn't have thought of ourselves; and there are much more interesting things to do with them than make them from the Mournland. Unfortunately, MoE is full of such relatively reductive, uninspired content. It's nice to finally have pricing for dragonshards and know that they come in egg-shaped rocks, but was there anything else in that section that illuminated the subject for anyone? etc. etc.
The Dreaming Duck 10-17-05, 12:08 AM	If psiforged are going to be in the book, I'd much rather have a list of potential sources for them (or rumors of same) than something dictating their origin to me... Agreed. There's so many interesting possibilities (they are a model of warforged from Xen'drik, designed during the first quori incursion; they are actually created by the Inspired using mind-seeded Cannith heirs; they are creations of the Lord of Blades using the Mourning-warped forge...), and frankly, while I will add psiforged to my campaign, I'm not going to use this backstory. Ah well.
6FootGnome 10-17-05, 05:02 AM	My take on the whole Dragonshard vs Magic of Eberron stories on Aereni is as follows: 1) The story in the Dragonshard is the story that the elves tell outsiders. 2) The story in Magic of Eberron is what actually happened. Or vice versa. Your campaign, your ruling. More to the topic at hand, I am kinda disappointed that we were supposed to get another base class, and it was cut. We'll all survive, though. I promise. -TRRW Well its your campagin, so feel free to do what suits you, but Dragonsahrd is written by the guy who actually makes ebe
daedalusaf 10-17-05, 11:18 PM	When's the MoE excerpt coming out? It seems later than usual...
jknevitt 10-17-05, 11:39 PM	If the answer is 2, then you should like the 8 or so symbionts in the back of the book, as well as the Impure Prince PrC, which transforms you into an (self-hating) aberration over the course of five levels. Let's not forget that you can be a half-daelkyr impure prince at level 3. :D
Wycen the Clueless 10-18-05, 12:07 AM	I'm interested in what the web enhancement might be.
The White Sorcerer 10-18-05, 03:05 AM	I'm interested in what the web enhancement might be. An adventure, no doubt. Please, WotC, move back to the "stuff cut from the book" web enhancements.
6FootGnome 10-18-05, 09:28 AM	Yeah, here's a doozy: despite what we were told 5 months ago in the Aerenal Dragonshard, Aeren isn't really a woman who died before she reached Aerenal, but now she's a man who was the first deathless (and apparently is still around somewhere). I can't wait to see how they write themselves out of this screw up...since the Aereni are obsessed with ancestor worship and keep detailed records of all their ancestors, there's no way they can say "this is just one of the many conflicting legends of the Aereni people". This book wasn't cheap, I think 30 bucks per book is more than enough money for them to hire someone to read the book once through to find any obvious mistakes, but if money is such a problem, why doesn't WotC hand out a couple books to some real fans to act as "beta testers" who will find all the mistakes for them for free? VOL KILLS DUMBLEDORE!
garner_adam 10-18-05, 01:15 PM	Does Magic of Eberron express what sort of magic the average man experiences? For example we know that the people of Sharn enjoy the luxury of the sky coach but what about else where? Do the middle class of Breland enjoy chill touched boxes that act as refridgerators? A magic mouth letter to your sick grandmother in Karranath? Tired of farmer Bill complaining about those damned magebred rabbits eating his crops? "They should have never made those evil creatures! The furry monsters might taste better to some plump Cyren prince but Vadalis really should have thought this through!" Just curious because it can be hard to imagine what Eberron is like based on what they "could" do.
Xyl 10-18-05, 09:23 PM	Sure, you've heard that Merrix is still producing warforged. You've also heard that the Kundarak dwarves excrete gold, You see, there's this drinking game they sometimes play... that the Barons of House Thuranni are all vampires, No, no, no, they're really dragons in disguise! that whenever a Jorasco halfling heals you he gains a permanent magical bond to you, I knew anyone giving discount healing must be up to no good. that members of House Deneith are possessed by demons, and goodness knows what else. Now this one is just too out there to be true. :D