Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dashadjen 12-06-05, 11:58 AM	I haven't found any concrete powers for anyone with the mark of death... I know it's extinct, but I'm brining it back in my game. If anyone knows where the powers are listed, or just has some reccomendations, I'd be glad to hear it. thanks!
Euangelion 12-06-05, 12:14 PM	It's never been statted out officially, and probably (hopefully) never will.
Redkun 12-06-05, 12:20 PM	You won't find the powers of the Mark of Death in any canon Eberron book. Either it's something they're saving for a later book or, like the origin of the Mournland, it's a gap they're leaving the individual DM to fill. We do know that the Mark of Death was a "dark mark" associated with destruction and death, so it's almost certain that it has some offensive abilities in contrast to the other dragonmarks. If you're looking for suggestions, here's mine: Least: Inflict Moderate Wounds 1/day or Animate Dead 1/day Lesser: Inflict Critical Wounds 1/day Greater: Create Greater Undead 1/day or Control Undead 1/day Siberys: Power Word Kill 1/day or Wail Of The Banshee 1/day These are quite a bit more powerful than your standard dragonmark, but I think you know that the Mark Of Death is not a "standard dragonmark".
Edymnion 12-06-05, 12:38 PM	Yes, there are no stats for the Mark of Death. If it were to return, it would likely spark a new round of genocide by the dragons and the elves to finish the job they started thousands of years ago. Which means that WotC won't publish stats on it, because it would be VERY disruptive to the setting. You seriously need to think long and hard before you bring it back, because it is in no way a minor thing.
Redkun 12-06-05, 12:46 PM	Yes, there are no stats for the Mark of Death. If it were to return, it would likely spark a new round of genocide by the dragons and the elves to finish the job they started thousands of years ago. Elves, yes. Because they're absolutely terrified of the Mark. Dragons, maybe not. If you recall, the dragons allowed the Mark of Death to exist for quite a long time. It was the creation of the half-dragon elf Erandis d'Vol that finally caused the near-destruction of the Vol family line- it might have had nothing to do with the dragonmark at all. Though my working theory is that they were concerned about a dragonmark on a creature with draconic blood. Yes, the re-emergence of the Mark of Death will be an extremely far-reaching event, but just how far depends on how you play the draconic point of view. They could see the Mark of Death as an abomination to be wiped out, or could see it develop on a full-blooded elf and simply shrug with apathy.
dashadjen 12-06-05, 12:54 PM	I agree with Redkun with the dragons being more concerned with the interracial breeding, not so much the mark.
Euangelion 12-06-05, 01:07 PM	Perhaps the part of the Draconic Prophesy that has the elves so worked up is about the return of the Mark of Death...
nfras 12-06-05, 08:30 PM	It doesn't come with any powers, but if you order today with a credit card it does come with a set of titanium steak knives :) Seriously though, it will never be statted out. If it is important to your campaign make it up, keeping in mind what power levels the other dragonmarks provide.
nfras 12-06-05, 08:46 PM	Regarding the destruction of the line of Vol, I reckon the dragons got their knickers in a twist about a dragonmark on a creature with draconic blood. I reckon the Undying Court used it as an opportunity to wipe out the line of Vol once and for all. The two ideologies were diametrically opposed with negative/positive energy.
Edymnion 12-06-05, 09:05 PM	Yeah, and if the mark comes back, it means that House Vol wasn't destroyed, which means the Undying Court will be trying to eradicate it at all costs again. The dragons probably won't care, depends on if they think the prophesy requires the MoD to be gone or not.
Wraith428 12-06-05, 10:06 PM	I would guess that like most of the other 12 dragonmarks the powers granted by the mark of death would not be offensive in nature or would they do harm. Those types of effects seem religated to aberrant marks. I woulkd immagine the marks of death would have powers like gentle repose, speak with dead, animate dead, create undead, command undead, etc. That's my take. Wraith428
Majorafire77 12-06-05, 10:18 PM	Doesn't the Mark of Death only appear on elves with at least a bit of dragon blood in them the way that the Mark of Storm only appears on elves with at least a bit of human blood in them? Yes, I think the dragons would be annoyed not only because it becomes apparant that the abombination they had tried to destroy is still out there but also because, unless I am mistaken, it only appears on elves with dragon blood in them and on noone else.
Euangelion 12-06-05, 10:45 PM	No, there's nothing to indicate that there were more half-dragon among the House of Vol than Erandis. Also, my take on a half-elf is that they're just that, equally half-human and half-elf. I think an interesting possibility is than any half-dragon who's other half came from a Dragonmarked family can still manifest their family's dragonmark; in other words, having the blood of the dragons flowing through your veins does not prevent you from manifesting a mark. In fact, wouldn't it be interesting if the marks were even more powerful than in a non-half-dragon member of the family!
dashadjen 12-06-05, 11:58 PM	keep in mind that vol has the MoD, but is undead, and cannot manifest it's powers. (Or so I think)
Azazyll 12-07-05, 01:17 AM	actually, it probably is offensive, as pointed out. It also seemed to be more powerful than the others, as has also been pointed out. These are general feelings from keith, not the books. I would even go so far as to not make a siberys mark, as I don't think it's part of the "good" part of the prophecy. But you never know. that's just an opinion. Also, it's not just the interbreeding between dragons and other species. Dragons are doing that all over, particularly q'barra, and no one's doing anything about that. Although there are plenty of other odd things about the half fiend dragon of q'barra. It appeaars to be a combination of dragonmarks and dragons. Although obviosuly some heretical dragons, much like the one that taught druidism to the orcs, felt that there was something to be gained from it in terms of the prophecy. perhaps some still do. Interestingly, the house of shadow just split. Because house thuranni was darker and less tied to traditions than phiarlan, the old house. This is coincidentally the only other elf dragonmark. They also coincidentally set up shop in the Lazaar principalities, just south of Vol's home base and the last organized remnants of the house of vol's retainers, the elves of farlnen isle. They also "are rumored to work with the emerald claw," vol's puppet and main enforcement agency. Their new baron is also constantly followed around by two undead shadows. That's a lot of coincidences. Or perhaps, vol wants to remake her house using one that already exists as a starting off point. the moon of shadow itself is already splitting down the middle. Or at least, that's the focus of my campaign. just a thought
realdm 12-07-05, 04:42 AM	he's just talking about bringing back a mark in his own campaign, give him help, dont try to blame this guy for it! anyway, I think the mark of death can kill at will. i'd say a touch attack that increase the will save accordingly to the power of the mark
Euangelion 12-07-05, 10:22 AM	Some options include the touch spells (chill, ghoul and vampiric), the summon undead spells (Heroes of Horror has them, maybe Lirbris Mortis as well), and of course the create undead spells. One possible additional power of the Mark might be the ability to rebuke/command undead in addition to the usual spell-like abilities, in keeping with the rumors that the Mark of Death was particularly powerful. In fact, I sense a cool Mark of Death PrC possibility, with class levels stacking with all other classes in determining # of HD that can be created, rebuked/commanded and controlled.
AntiSean 12-07-05, 11:03 AM	Interestingly, the house of shadow just split. Because house thuranni was darker and less tied to traditions than phiarlan, the old house. This is coincidentally the only other elf dragonmark. They also coincidentally set up shop in the Lazaar principalities, just south of Vol's home base and the last organized remnants of the house of vol's retainers, the elves of farlnen isle. They also "are rumored to work with the emerald claw," vol's puppet and main enforcement agency. Their new baron is also constantly followed around by two undead shadows. That's a lot of coincidences. Or perhaps, vol wants to remake her house using one that already exists as a starting off point. the moon of shadow itself is already splitting down the middle. Or at least, that's the focus of my campaign. just a thought OK, I hate to quote a large block of text and give such a short response, but damn... that's brilliant! I may just have to steal that...
Edymnion 12-07-05, 12:35 PM	anyway, I think the mark of death can kill at will. i'd say a touch attack that increase the will save accordingly to the power of the markNow why would you think a normal dragonmark would have that kind of power? The Mark of Making only gets that sort of power as a Syberis Mark, and thats just True Creation. There's no way a Least Mark of Death would let you run around killing things...
Ozymandias V. 12-07-05, 02:58 PM	I'd just like to point out that it's the Mark of DEATH, not the Mark of UNDEATH. Why would the mark of death create undead? Wouldn't it be more likely to destroy them, along with everything else?
Majorafire77 12-07-05, 03:14 PM	No, there's nothing to indicate that there were more half-dragon among the House of Vol than Erandis. Also, my take on a half-elf is that they're just that, equally half-human and half-elf. I think an interesting possibility is than any half-dragon who's other half came from a Dragonmarked family can still manifest their family's dragonmark; in other words, having the blood of the dragons flowing through your veins does not prevent you from manifesting a mark. In fact, wouldn't it be interesting if the marks were even more powerful than in a non-half-dragon member of the family! First of all, a half-elf does not have to have equal amounts of human and elven blood in them. A half-elf with the Human Heritage feat (which represents the elven blood being diluted by human blood in a half-elven family) can still manifest a dragonmark provided one of their ancestors was a member of a half-elven house. So far, it makes sense that the Mark of Death manifests only on elves with at least a bit of dragon blood in them (whether they're half-and-half such as Vol herself or mainly of elven descent, such as the character in MfD). Unless I'm mistaken, both Erandis' mother and father didn't have the mark, and she was the first one to obtain it. By the way, the only mark that a half-dragon can possibly naturally manifest is the Mark of Death (and that's only if they're part of House Vol and if they're other blood is that of elves). A half-dragon of any other race and/or house cannot manifest a dragonmark for the same reason that a half-elf (even with the Human Heritage feat) cannot manifest a Mark of Making. A human with elf blood in him prevents him from manifesting the Mark of Passage, so why should you allow a human with dragon blood in him to?
Euangelion 12-08-05, 12:27 AM	First of all, a half-elf does not have to have equal amounts of human and elven blood in them. A half-elf with the Human Heritage feat (which represents the elven blood being diluted by human blood in a half-elven family) can still manifest a dragonmark provided one of their ancestors was a member of a half-elven house. I was just saying that as far as half-elves are concerned, I don't see some of them as being either more human or elven as other half-elves, they are all just half-elves. Since the Human Heritage feat or Races of Destiny wasn't written specifically with Eberron in mind, I don't see it officially negating my POV. So far, it makes sense that the Mark of Death manifests only on elves with at least a bit of dragon blood in them (whether they're half-and-half such as Vol herself or mainly of elven descent, such as the character in MfD). Unless I'm mistaken, both Erandis' mother and father didn't have the mark, and she was the first one to obtain it. I wouldn't expect that her father the dragon would have any dragonmark! ;) However, I am curious regarding this idea that the Family Vol had dragonblood besides Erandis. Where is this from? I cannot recall any mention of this in a sourcebook. By the way, the only mark that a half-dragon can possibly naturally manifest is the Mark of Death (and that's only if they're part of House Vol and if they're other blood is that of elves). Now I'm really confused. Are you asserting that Erandis' mother was dragon-blooded and her father was a full-blooded elf? A half-dragon of any other race and/or house cannot manifest a dragonmark for the same reason that a half-elf (even with the Human Heritage feat) cannot manifest a Mark of Making. A human with elf blood in him prevents him from manifesting the Mark of Passage, so why should you allow a human with dragon blood in him to? My point is that they are dragonmarks, and as such perhaps having actual dragons in one's heritage does not prevent the manifestation of dragonmarks. I rather doubt that there's a lot of half-dragons from dragonmark families running around, so it may be just a lack of opportunities that has prevented other half-dragons from manifesting dragonmarks. IMHO, Vol proves that it's possible, rather than definately being the only possible one. Besides, not all dragonmarks follow the standard rules, since the Mark of Finding bridges two races. I am definately not saying that this is canon, just that I think that it's an interesting possibility that some may wish to explore in their campaign.
Wraith428 12-08-05, 02:07 AM	I'd just like to point out that it's the Mark of DEATH, not the Mark of UNDEATH. Why would the mark of death create undead? Wouldn't it be more likely to destroy them, along with everything else? The only direct info I can give you comes from p.228 of the ECS. "As the Vol family was slaughtered, the matriarch used her powers over death to make sure her beloved daughter survived. Erandis became a lich..." This seems to suggest that the mark of death had some power over creating undead. Wraith428
realdm 12-08-05, 12:28 PM	edymmion: Now why would you think a normal dragonmark would have that kind of power? The Mark of Making only gets that sort of power as a Syberis Mark, and thats just True Creation. There's no way a Least Mark of Death would let you run around killing things... .... plot device?
dutchmason 12-08-05, 05:34 PM	actually at one point (not sure where I think in the races section) of ecs it says something like it is possible to find a half elf in a elf house or a human house. Meaning of course their are only four houses half elves cant be in (halflings, gnomes, and dwarves) because all the others contain humans or elves.
Euangelion 12-08-05, 06:23 PM	Yes, a few half-elves can be found in the elven and human dragonmarked houses, but they never manifest the respective mark.
ChronosCrow 12-08-05, 08:04 PM	Many have asked, none know. Though, Matt Forbek's book "Road to Death" is about the Mark of Death and a possible reoccurance of it, so there might be come fluff in there about it. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/eberronnovel/954697400
ChronosCrow 12-08-05, 08:07 PM	Many have asked, none know. Though, Matt Forbek's book "Road to Death" is about the Mark of Death and a possible reoccurance of it, so there might be come fluff in there about it. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/eberronnovel/954697400 Please note that "Road to Death" is the second novel in the series "The Lost Mark". The first one is Marked for Death: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/eberronnovel/176760000
eloth983 12-08-05, 08:22 PM	Erandis was the only elf half-dragon ever born on Eberron I think, although there may have been a mention of her having a brother at some point. Also, no one on Eberron has a working mark of death, because the entire house of Vol was destroyed because of Erandis, and there seems to be no way that it will ever return, because it explicitly says that the entire line was killed.
ChronosCrow 12-08-05, 09:06 PM	Erandis was the only elf half-dragon ever born on Eberron I think, although there may have been a mention of her having a brother at some point. Also, no one on Eberron has a working mark of death, because the entire house of Vol was destroyed because of Erandis, and there seems to be no way that it will ever return, because it explicitly says that the entire line was killed. I think to say there are no other half-dragon's alive would be inaccurate to say. I don't have proof, but it's just a feeling I get. In fact I think The House of Vol might have had a few half-dragons in it besides Erandis. That's really just impression I get from it really. Also, I kinda don't like that they ruled out half-dragon as a PC allowed template really. I like the template a lot and have a few players that do too.
Jagermeister 12-08-05, 09:11 PM	I haven't found any concrete powers for anyone with the mark of death... I know it's extinct, but I'm brining it back in my game. If anyone knows where the powers are listed, or just has some reccomendations, I'd be glad to hear it. thanks! You might find this thread (and the many threads it links to) worth perusing for inspiration. Erandis d'Vol Encyclopedia (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=397639)
DBlizzard 12-08-05, 10:50 PM	Now why would you think a normal dragonmark would have that kind of power? The Mark of Making only gets that sort of power as a Syberis Mark, and thats just True Creation. There's no way a Least Mark of Death would let you run around killing things... However, Keith has hinted that the mark was a lot more powerful than other marks (thus the focus on wiping it out). I really would expect that the Death domain ability (or something similiar) might be the least or lesser version.
Majorafire77 12-09-05, 05:06 PM	Euangelion: I guess you didn't receive the points that I were trying (and apparantly failing) to get across. What I was attempting to say is: 1. The requirements for someone to naturally manifest the Mark of Death is that they are a member of the Elf or Half-Elf/Half-Dragon race and that one of their ancestors is Erandis. 2. Being a Half-Dragon prevents you from naturally getting a mark in the same way that being a Half-Elf prevents you from getting the Mark of Making. Bloodlines do not prevent marks. 3. A Half-Dragon can never naturally manifest a dragonmark unless they meet the requirements for the Mark of Death as stated above.
Euangelion 12-09-05, 07:54 PM	Euangelion: I guess you didn't receive the points that I were trying (and apparantly failing) to get across. What I was attempting to say is: 1. The requirements for someone to naturally manifest the Mark of Death is that they are a member of the Elf or Half-Elf/Half-Dragon race and that one of their ancestors is Erandis. Technically, it would be a member of the House of Vol, not just Erandis. It is far more likely that the Mark would reappear because some other scion of the House of Vol was hidden somewhere than through a direct descendent of Erandis. Also, technically by type Erandis should be just "dragon." 2. Being a Half-Dragon prevents you from naturally getting a mark in the same way that being a Half-Elf prevents you from getting the Mark of Making. Bloodlines do not prevent marks. Not really, since the only half-dragon scion of any dragonmarked house was able to manifest the mark of that house. Granted, my suggestion is meant as an alternative way of looking at the effect of dragonic ancestry in a character, one that fits within the parameters set by the examples already established, but not supported by a declared rule. However, nowhere in any sourcebook does it specifically say that only the dragonmark a half-dragon can manifest is the Mark of Death. How it was the Erandis was able to do it is left unexplored, which means that a DM is free to go any direction with it they want. 3. A Half-Dragon can never naturally manifest a dragonmark unless they meet the requirements for the Mark of Death as stated above. Again, I must have missed something, but which official source presents the rules for the Mark of Death as relating to half-dragon scions? We are given only the singular example of a half-dragon scion of one dragonmarked house, and that scion was able to manifest the mark of the house in question. This does not mean the it is a logical necessity that this is the only mark/house that can produce a half-dragon scion that can manifest the mark. You're trying to prove a negative, and the only evidence that we have on the issue (Erandis) is that half-dragons can manifest a dragonmark. Maybe in the future WOTC will include in a sourcebook the hard and fast rule that only half-dragon scions of the House of Vol can manifest a dragonmark, but they haven't yet as far as I know. There's nothing wrong with thinking outside the box, and yet my position is not really outside the box at all from my point of view, since it fits within all of the evidence we have so far. It's not like the issue with the one novel that has a half-elf scion of Orien with a mark, since half-dragons aren't even necessarily a true-breeding race like half-elves. You might be able to appeal to the AKB thread to support your argument, but that isn't canon (as much as many wish it could be.) Keep in mind as well that I'm not saying that I want there to be a rule that half-dragon scions of any dragonmark house can manifest the mark of their house. I'm just saying that if a DM wants to go that way that they are still working within the parameters of the setting, because of Erandis. But keep in mind that such a union is very unlikely to be seen as a "good thing" by many, if not most, dragons, and that is decidely not a "good thing!" And besides, going by the RAW Erandis shouldn't even be able to become a lich. Rather she should be a dracolich, since she's a dragon by type, not a humanoid (elf).
eloth983 12-09-05, 10:54 PM	Euangelion, why are you treating the mark of death as so different from other dragonmarks? Before it was destroyed, it was like any other dragonmark, manifesting in elves in this case, and having the house of Vol as it's bloodline. The only half-dragon in the house was Erandis, which is the entire point of why the house was destroyed, as the elves saw it as an unspeakable crime to mix elven and dragon blood. The mark was like any other before the destruction of the house of Vol, and the fact that it's bloodline is extinct is all that makes it different from any of the marks that are still present. By the way, the lich template can be applied to any living corporeal being regardless of type, and dracoliches have to be full dragons.
Siran Dunmorgan 12-09-05, 11:50 PM	By the way, the lich template can be applied to any living corporeal being regardless of type, and dracoliches have to be full dragons. Really? What version of the rules are you using? The current System Reference Document states that:"Lich" is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature), provided it can create the required phylactery.I won't quote Draconomicon here, as it's not Open Gaming material, but it states that the requirement for Dracolich is that the base creature is an evil dragon—not a "true dragon," but just "dragon". Since Erandis d'Vol was a half-dragon, she qualifies for the dragon type, and must—strictly—be a dracolich rather than a lich per se. Not that there's much difference, in her case. —Siran Dunmorgan Edit: it occurs to me that you may be confusing the requirements for lich with the requirements for half-dragon, which is an inherited template that may indeed be applied to any living, corporeal creature.
Euangelion 12-10-05, 02:09 AM	Euangelion, why are you treating the mark of death as so different from other dragonmarks? Before it was destroyed, it was like any other dragonmark, manifesting in elves in this case, and having the house of Vol as it's bloodline. The only half-dragon in the house was Erandis, which is the entire point of why the house was destroyed, as the elves saw it as an unspeakable crime to mix elven and dragon blood. The mark was like any other before the destruction of the house of Vol, and the fact that it's bloodline is extinct is all that makes it different from any of the marks that are still present. By the way, the lich template can be applied to any living corporeal being regardless of type, and dracoliches have to be full dragons. But you see, I'm that's exactly what I'm not doing, treating the Mark of Death different than any other dragonmark. I'm saying that if a half-dragon scion of the House of Vol can manifest a dragonmark, then perhaps a half-dragon scion from any dragonmark house can manifest a dragonmark. I'm taking what's definately true about one dragonmark house (that the one known half-dragon scion of the House of Vol manifested the Mark of Death) and suggesting that it may be true for any house. And I'm not saying is true, I'm saying may be true, since one could just as easily decide that strange and powerful magics had to be employed by her parents to allow Erandis to manifest her mark at all due to her mixed blood, on the order of a draconic eldritch machine. But I think that the possibility than a half-dragon scion of any dragonmarked house can manifest the house's mark is an interesting possibility that others may wish to explore in their campaigns, not that this has to be official rules or anything (keeping in mind that if it does happen, it'll likely FUBAR that house). I understand that no one is under any obligation to agree with me that it's interesting, however! ;)
Euangelion 12-10-05, 02:14 AM	...which is an inherited template... And yet also an acquired template via the Dragon Disciple PrC! If they would just follow their own rules. :nonono: ;)
ChronosCrow 12-10-05, 02:54 AM	Euangelion: I guess you didn't receive the points that I were trying (and apparantly failing) to get across. What I was attempting to say is: 1. The requirements for someone to naturally manifest the Mark of Death is that they are a member of the Elf or Half-Elf/Half-Dragon race and that one of their ancestors is Erandis. Partially untrue. It needs to be an ancesort of anyone in the bloodline with the Mark of Death in it.