Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Korhal_IV 03-11-05, 01:37 PM	I got a copy of the RPGA adventure Mark of Heroes today (from some DDM league play). I think - well, the first magic item presented is a giant totem pole that casts Disintegrate an unlimited number of times on anyone who steps in this one hall the PCs aren't supposed to enter without permission. :eek: What happened to our low-but-widespread theme of magic? Oh, nevermind, I guess every union can afford the Totem of Uberness to guard random rooms. And the whole adventure deals with a newly invented race and a newly invented plane. The astrology barely touches on Eberron canon. A newly invented plane? Why doesn't the RPGA put a new continent in Greyhawk whenever it feels like it then? The planes are vital to Eberron, and messing around with them just doesn't feel like the FIRST thing you should do to new Eberron players. I mean, seriously, this kind of boundary-breaking is fun, but it's not suitable for the first Eberron experience most RPGA players will have. :mad: :(
Edymnion 03-11-05, 02:41 PM	Because its the RPGA. They don't care about good gaming, or setting flavor, they just care about how badly they can rules-lawyer the game. I have yet to be in an RPGA game that didn't butcher whatever it touched.
Ellipsis 03-11-05, 03:07 PM	I haven't read it, but if you aren't exaggerating (and it doesn't sound like you could be), then I totally agree. Although I have to ask, was it a new plane or demiplane? And if the former, was it a plane like the Plane of Shadow or a new orbiting plane?
Edymnion 03-11-05, 03:16 PM	I haven't read it, but if you aren't exaggerating (and it doesn't sound like you could be), then I totally agree. Although I have to ask, was it a new plane or demiplane? And if the former, was it a plane like the Plane of Shadow or a new orbiting plane?RPGA introduced a subrace of Gnomes with magical powers, and just tossed in a whole new plane that they came from. Just for the hell of it.
ieattrollsforbreakfast 03-11-05, 03:23 PM	I haven't read it, but if you aren't exaggerating (and it doesn't sound like you could be), then I totally agree. Although I have to ask, was it a new plane or demiplane? And if the former, was it a plane like the Plane of Shadow or a new orbiting plane? I dont have the adventure, but I gather from earlier threads that this new plane, the Plane of Mirrors, is a distant plane, orbiting far beyond the 13 planes in the Deep Astral, meaning it has practically no effect on the world of Eberron.
KMFDM 03-11-05, 03:24 PM	RPGA is the worst thing to happen since .... hmmmm.... I guess its the worst thing ever.
Takasi 03-11-05, 03:59 PM	I ran this adventure in January and we had a lot of fun with it. The flavor is very Eberron-esque. I made a few complaints when I first read it but after running it I really like it.
Docrailgun 03-11-05, 04:01 PM	Good joke! Of course, if you knew what you were talking about, it might even be funny. Because its the RPGA. They don't care about good gaming, or setting flavor, they just care about how badly they can rules-lawyer the game. I have yet to be in an RPGA game that didn't butcher whatever it touched.
DMR 03-11-05, 04:14 PM	I have not seen the adventure you're complaining about... but I have to agree that wierd gnomes from a "new plane" not in the ECS sounds pretty bad. My guess is that this was written before Eberron existed, then someone tried to "make it fit". For what it's worth, I played 2 of the 3 MoH debut adventures at WF2005, and enjoyed both of those very much. So don't trash the whole campaign over one bad apple.
greatfrito 03-11-05, 04:47 PM	Well, said adventure doesn't sound like my cup-o'-tea, but to each his own again. I'd think adding a new plane to a setting that seems very much focused on the low-power (compared to other settings) "real world" seems to just be a bit much - and it's just that much worse if this is the "introductory" adventure (though it's sounding like it isn't supposed to be). RPGA sounds like a good idea - and a "Living" Eberron campaign would be kinda neat - but I think to do it right it should be played straight from the core books (ECS, COT, PHB, EPH, DMG, MM) with maybe the inclusion of -some- elements of the add-on books.
Zedium 03-11-05, 05:50 PM	Well, it is true that the adventure follows eberron poorly, first of all it has a Whisper gnome in it, which goes against Eberron's basic idea of no subraces, and especially for crying out loud a WHISPER gnome, which is basically a more stealthy gnome. And yes, the totem pole with disintergrate seemed to be a bit overboard, especially seeing how such item would be almost impossible to create in current days and would be like a doomsday device on eberronian magic levels. They could have done with a simple Baleful teleport totem pole or something. As for the new plane, actually I like the idea of the deep astral, allows DMs to occasionally add an encounter from a plane that isn't from Eberron's basic 13, and it would be extremely rare. And the race isn't that new, it is the Nerra from the Fiend Folio, which do have an eberonian taste about them seeing they are a bunch of sneaky meanies.
Korhal_IV 03-11-05, 08:00 PM	First, let's establish that Mark of Heroes IS the/an introductory RPGA adventure - it's for 1st level, and it's the only Eberron module out for RPGA yet. I know - my FLGS gives 'em out as prizes for DDM, and every month I pick up the module instead of a mini so I can get more things to run for my players. Trolls - it doesn't matter if the Plane of Mirrors plays a major part in the world of Eberron; this is an INTRODUCTORY module in which ALL THIRTEEN of the existing planes are entirely ignored in favor of a new one that's plopped out by the author. As far as the players are concerned, the Plane of Mirrors might as well be the only darned plane Eberron has! DMR - Whisper gnomes are not from the Plane of Mirrors, I'll get to that in a sec. There's absolutely no explanation why there's a whisper gnome - I guess the author just sort of assumed whisper gnomes existed and he didn't have to do a lot of explaining about it. Which leads to another gripe in general - couldn't this guy have been just a regular PHB gnome? The PCs aren't even supposed to fight him, or if they do, his racial abilities are pretty irrelevant since he just tries to run using his wizard spells. No, he had to be a SPECIAL gnome. Also, I was not aware other MoH modules existed - I have no idea about their quality, but for what it's worth, I'm *****ing over Reflections of the Multiverse. I should make that clear, since I wouldn't want to slander modules I haven't seen. Zedium - the totem exists just to zap PCs (four per round - it can kill your average 1st level party in one round) who enter the hall without permission. The "roleplaying" sidebar essentially says; "either the PCs sit on their butts until the whisper gnome arrives, or they go seek out someone to give them permission, or they enter the hall and die." A pair of burly guards could have done that role just as well, and been more of a roleplaying interaction to boot! But nope, we have to introduce what is essentially an artifact, just to guard the hall so no one can eavesdrop on patrons. I shudder to think what a small military force could do if they uprooted it and carried it into battle. Anyone else remember that web enhancement that had Walls of Force lining the display cases, and the raging mob that pilloried the author (who, it turned out, was a rather nice guy who apologized and tried to get corrections uploaded)? Compared to a published RPGA adventure, a web enhancement is NOTHING. :mad:
Ponderosa 03-11-05, 09:56 PM	I agree. I played that adventure at Winter Fantasy, and it was pretty disappointing. It had some confusing intrigue, and was a pretty bizarre mystery without very memorable action or adventure. On the other hand, don't be so quick to throw out the RPGA and Mark of Heroes entirely. I also played the special adventure offered at Winter Fantasy, Death in Darguun, and it was incredible. No absurd, over the top magic, but a good blend of everything that Eberron had to offer. It had the Emerald Claw, psionics, goblinoids, and some really great action-adventure. I don't what they were thinking with the introductory adventure, but Mark of Heroes as a whole doesn't look bad at all.
DBlizzard 03-11-05, 10:54 PM	DMR - Whisper gnomes are not from the Plane of Mirrors, I'll get to that in a sec. There's absolutely no explanation why there's a whisper gnome - I guess the author just sort of assumed whisper gnomes existed and he didn't have to do a lot of explaining about it. Whisper gnomes have been a part of "Mark of Heroes" Eberron almost from the beginning. One of the first cards allows you to play one as a character. You can certainly quibble about that decision. However, blaming the module author for that is misplaced (unless, of course, he's the one who pushed for it - but that would be coincidental).
Vharuck 03-12-05, 03:22 AM	I must applaud the creator, though. Fitting a huge railroad into a single magical totem, bravo.
Doctor X 03-12-05, 03:51 AM	Yeah, this really bothers me. RPGA completely ignored two main things about the setting: 1. No subraces. Of course, we still have Drow and a few other subraces, but what the creators of Eberron seem like they want to avoid is the garbled mass of who-the-hell cares that now makes up Forgotten Realms. Subraces are a big factor in this, and keeping them to a minimum seems like it was one of Keith Baker's top priorities. But no... apparently gnomes with normal stats just aren't cool enough for RPGA. The extensive cultural development of Zilargo be damned-- We need WHISPER gnomes! 2. Low-but-wide magic. Epic-level stuff is supposed to be quite rare. An item on the scale of that totem would definitely not be sitting in some random hallway. Instead, there might be a magical sensor attuned to an alarm spell that would call gaurds. If he cared about the Eberron style, he could have made goblinoid gaurds-- mercenaries under House Deneith. A couple bugbears or hobgoblins with class levels shouldn't have any problems dealing with a first level party. Honestly, it's not like anything more was necessary if he wanted to railroad. 4 disintegrate spells in one round is like thirty-one flavors of overkill. The whole "new plane" thing is like the icing on the cake. Sure, adding new planes isn't completely wrong, but when the setting has already provided thirteen new planes, you'd think they could make use of one of those instead of plopping a whole new one in there. After all, the adventure's supposed to introduce players to Eberron... not using the Eberron material seems like a bad way of going about that.
motorfirebox 03-12-05, 11:19 AM	You can certainly quibble about that decision. However, blaming the module author for that is misplaced (unless, of course, he's the one who pushed for it - but that would be coincidental). yeah, but making it a central part of the introductory adventure is kinda rubbing everyone's noses in it.
Endless_Helix 03-13-05, 09:40 AM	How high a level was this "whisper gnome"? What is this "Whisper Gnome" Madness? Why does this idiot have a Totem Pole of Disintigration ? I mean disintigrate is a 9th level spell IIRC, and can deal 40d6 damage in the right hands. How are the PCs going to know not to go into the corridor? Or is there proper signage? If so the whisper gnome should be under arrest for having a deadly spell in a city. 'Course what guardsman is going to rush into a building after he sees four of his friends turn to dust? The adventure starts in Sharn right?
Ohtar Turinson 03-13-05, 09:59 AM	Why does this idiot have a Totem Pole of Disintigration ? I mean disintigrate is a 9th level spell IIRC, and can deal 40d6 damage in the right hands. How are the PCs going to know not to go into the corridor? Or is there proper signage? It's a sixth level spell (not that that makes it any less absurd). Sounds like railroading of the worst kind to me. Anyone who hires a first level party shouldn't have that kind of magic at their disposal in any game. It's a bad idea, even if you aren't in Eberron; add to that utterly ignoring how impossibly rare that would be in Eberron... (maybe you'd find it in the abode of Mordain the Fleshweaver... or a Daelkyr's lair, though I don't think that either one's style...) Ick. What's the deal with RPGA, anyway? I can't say I see the point of playing to get "cards" or whatever...
Zedium 03-13-05, 03:41 PM	Well, it isn't as bad as it looks, you don't get desintergrated the first second you set foot into the hall. You are first warned by a message written at the entrance of the hall, and there is this clear line on where the totem pole starts to work and where it stops working. And you have 3 rounds IIRC to turn around, and the totems start to slowely glow while you are within their range. But still, it is madness indeed, I could have accepted if it had used a lesser spell and the adventure is indeed railroaded the first few encounters.
PoeticJustice 03-13-05, 10:32 PM	Now I'm even more confused. In three rounds I could move 360 feet. That's more than a football field. Just how far away was the pole?
Save-vs-DM 03-14-05, 01:40 AM	I've ran this adventure a total of four times at So Cal - I'm of two minds on it. I think that in some spots it really does have a nice Eberron flavor. It some good intrige, and as a DM I really liked that there are sidebars for the Investigate feat (my main gripe is that not one of the fast play characters has the feat!). In regards to the plane of mirrors: I feel that the reason it was brought in is that they wanted a plane they could muck around with without screwing up the existing Eberron planes. Yes, it's not totally eberron - but if through the course of the adventure enough players manage to permanently cut of the connection to the plane of mirrors, at least they didn't cut of the connection to say, Fernia. I'm not saying this is the best choice. But I'm also saying that I can totally understand why the used a new plane. You have to realize that the campaign changes depending on what players do - I can see them wanting to keep RPGA Eberron distinct from the standard Eberron. In regards to the Tower o' Doom: Yes, it is railroady and very high magic for Eberron. But can we honestly say it's any more high magic than say an Elemental Airship? I mean it takes a high level character to use Bind Elemental, does it not? I think that it might be at the high end of unusual for Eberron, but I don't think it's out of the question. Remember that a 9th level Arfiticer can duplicate a 6th level spell. That's the same level that an elemental air ship can be constructed. I was dissapointed that players couldn't go in unescorted. I'm still not totally sure why it had to be this way, especially becuase once they get someone to escort them the escort doesn't really do anything to hinder them at all. It was just kind of odd, really. I think Mark of Heroes has good things and bad things, just like any other campaign. Yet I think before people get too down on the whole thing, they need to really step back at look at what Mark of Heroes really is: they have to service a very, very wide audience over the world. And honestly, some DMs who run for the RPGA might freeze up without some help in railroading. Is the RPGA the best thing since sliced bread? Not in the least. I still prefer my home games over the RPGA games, but I think nearly anyone does. I mean we can change things to suit our needs without needing to conform to a campaign standard. But the RPGA also does introduce a lot of people to the hobby - I've lost count of the number of people that have boughten Eberron aftering trying this adventure when I ran it. Sure I had to tell them what was different in a "standard" game, but it does do well for our setting. Bottom line, the RPGA is free to join for life and provides adventures free of charge to DMs who run them. Players can get fun little freebies for playing, which encourages people to play our favorite games more. I think that the good the RPGA does outweighs some of the inconsitencies. I can see everyone elses points on this issue. The adventure is far from perfect, but I don't think it's the worst thing to happen to Eberron either. *shrug* I think I'm over my two cents worth, but oh well. Cheers, Save-vs-DM
Endless_Helix 03-14-05, 09:49 AM	It's a sixth level spell (not that that makes it any less absurd). posted by Ohtar Turinson Thanks for the correction. My PHB is apparently far too busy doing something else to see me. The real absurdity is that such an artifact is completely illegal in Sharn, and most of Khorvaire. So whatever police force is around going to shut it down and impound the artifact.
Ishorn 03-14-05, 10:15 AM	Hello Everyone, I have many problems with the RPGA but I have to defend them on the MoH campaign and this is because it is the only way I am going to get to play in any form of the Eberron Setting as a player character. First of all the RPGA has farmed out writing adventures and some of the writers have a tendency to bring their own interpretations to settings. If you have ever ran a Greyhawk campaign and played in Living Greyhawk you would know what I mean. It human nature to change thing to what would make you comfortable. So yes the adventure you are talking about may not be pure Eberron but you have to give the guy a break. All he had to work from was ECS book and some Dragonshard articles. If you are not pleased with the setting how about jumping in and creating adventures that can be submitted to the RPGA to help them flesh out an Eberron Campaign you would like.
fizzbang 03-14-05, 10:50 AM	I've got to agree with Save-vs-DM, here. Yeah, there are a few things about this intro adventure that are distinctly out of the Eberron style: the presence of a Whisper Gnome, the Stupid Totem of Disintegration, and the rogue dimension. They're bad, but I suspect they're just another example of designers getting used to Eberron's style. However, there are a lot of things that this RPGA module did that were right on the money for the Eberron style. It made excellent use of the Investigate feat, and there was a thick web of intrigue that kept my party unsure about who they could trust, even after the end. There were recurring, probably-untrustworthy characters introduced, sinister enemies hinted at, and interested third parties that whose actions will probably come back to haunt the players. There were long periods of investigation and roleplay followed by intense periods of fighting. It was very much in keeping with the feel of Eberron. But yes, they did drop the ball with much of the content of Eberron. They could easily have done without the whisper gnome entirely ("extra-deceptive gnome" is a redundancy in Eberron). The entire rogue dimension could have been replaced by one of the already existant ones. The totem should have simply had an alarm spell or the like which alerted guards. I think much of this is a matter of the designer not quite understanding why these ideas don't fit in Eberron. As one of the first RPGA mods for Eberron, it's not entirely unexpected that there'll be some misunderstandings. Still, I enjoyed this module, and I thought it was much closer to the Eberron feel than the one on the island, which used the Eberron content well, but was pretty much a straight-up dungeon crawl with little or no space for roleplaying or intrigue. Here's hoping the designers figure out how to capture both the feel and the content in one adventure!
Korhal_IV 03-14-05, 11:13 AM	So yes the adventure you are talking about may not be pure Eberron but you have to give the guy a break. All he had to work from was ECS book and some Dragonshard articles. Funny. That's all I have too. :rolleyes:
nyysjan 03-14-05, 12:44 PM	nobody has much more than that ECS, Sharn:City of Towers and the Dragonshard articles are pretty much all there is for now
fizzbang 03-14-05, 02:26 PM	Funny. That's all I have too. :rolleyes: Yes, but I doubt the RPGA writer has kept up with the Ask Keith Baker thread or the like, where many of the Eberron guidelines like "no subraces" and "strong themes of 12 + 1" have been so overtly pointed out. The ECS doesn't come out and say "don't have subraces" or "these are the only planes", so it's possible they didn't realize it was so taboo. But I don't know who the writer of the module was, or how closely they worked with Wizards, Keith, or some magical Eberron Style Guidebook. It could have been some random guy using just the basebooks, in which case, some of these are probably standard misunderstandings of the setting. Or it could have been some guy who worked closely with the designers and just blatantly screwed the pooch on those points of the setting. But as I said, they at least got the feel of the module right on the money, even if they dropped the ball on the content. Admittedly, the disintegrate totem... Well, that's just :censored: .
Save-vs-DM 03-14-05, 03:54 PM	I actually got to talk to the writer of the module at So Cal. He's an upstanding guy (and kicked my butt at Risk Godstorm) and has done a lot of stuff for the RPGA. Like us, he was just learning what Eberron is really about. He constantly asked how we liked the adventure and what could be changed in the future. The guy isn't some hack, he's done some good work in the past. Keep in mind that this is the First adventure, folks. To use an analogy: How good was your first eberron adventure when you hadn't been checking the boards all that often? And this thing was written before Sharn City of Towers was released, and before half of the dragonshards were out (including the one on Zilargo). And, look at this - whisper gnome is the ONLY subrace allowed. Though I suspect they used it to sell Races of Stone, it isn't an odd as fit as say a desert dwarf or fire halfling, is it? Now the pillar triggering alarm to summon guards - that's a much better fit and serves the same purpose - wish I could have suggested it to the author at So Cal. *shrug* It is what it is. Cheers, Save vs DM
WizO_Sith 03-14-05, 09:20 PM	I'd like to chime in here for a sec and remind everybody (and tell those of you that weren't aware of it) that the WotC Online Code of Conduct's (www.wizards.com/coc) prohibition against flaming/bashing/insulting extends to people that aren't members of the online community. So let's stop the hating, shall we? Thanks.
ekomega 03-14-05, 11:41 PM	The link you posted to the COCs doesn't actually work, but luckily there's one at the top of the website. I assume you are referring to either: "hate speech (e.g. racial, ethnic, sexist, homophobic and religious slurs)" OR "harassment of another specific person (e.g. persistent flaming or continued personal attacks on the boards or "in-character harassment" without prior out-of-character permission.)" OR "trolling or baiting by putting to the screen inflammatory statements designed to elicit a negative response from the community" I'm not going to go through each point and say why they're not valid to the discussion going on here, but I assume that unless the moderators have a wide interpretation of the written rules, there's no problem here. If they do have a wide interpretation, then what's the point of having written rules at all? However, I can't see how discussing an author's work and adherence to the setting is violating any of these COCs (and none of the other COCs are slightly relevant). If discussing an author's work, and having a negative opinion of it, is considered "continued personal attacks" then you might as well say "Don't say anything bad about anyone working for Wizard's" in the COCs. Not everyone is going to enjoy everything everybody produces, and I think everyone here has been more than kind in speaking of the author despite the problems they have. As for the discussion, I think a lot of the "mistakes" he made are personal views or ideas gathered from hearing Keith Baker talk about Eberron. I haven't played the module (or read it) and I can't say a Disintegrate Tower would be in my campaign, but I could see why someone might build one and why an author might think it's something neat to put in. Whisper Gnomes are general RPGA issue that are beyond the scope of the guy. Based on what everyone has said, I don't think I'll play MoH. I was seriously considering it, too. Not worth the time when I can make my own campaign, although I don't get free miniatures.
stembolt 03-15-05, 09:00 PM	I would like to think that the authors of DnD adventures have slightly thicker skin than the novel authors. Besides if you forbade discussion of game material what would be left? Furthermore this thread seems to be a model of appropriateness. The Only author specific comments are about how great he is. Otherwise people are commenting about the specific details and why they are flawed. With the totem pole I have this observation. Everyone hates “railroading” and knows it is wrong, but they may not know it when they see it. The author was thinking “it is imperative that the PCs not enter this area. I know what will keep them out.” 2 guards would have been just as “railroady” but less obviously railroady. Part of the problem with new players and new DMs in Eberron (basically everyone) is understanding what is and is not appropriate. It is wrong to attack a house orien messenger, as in it is an evil act. But is also wrong in the sense that if you do so you will be hunted down like a dog. A messenger might be able to walk up to the big bad stronghold and deliver a message to the evil overlord simply because of the houses reputation and because the overlord knows not to anger house orien. (not to say that the houses are invincible, this is just an illustration.) As for whisper gnomes I assume they are a pet favorite. Like everyones fave the drow. Personally I love the Duergar and Derro. (For the record the Duergar and Derro are very different from whisper gnomes, but they still are technically subraces) Given an opportunity I would get them into Eberron any way I could. As for the plane of mirrors, that’s just a bad idea but I assume it figured into the content of the adventure.
Harsk 03-17-05, 03:59 PM	I would like to think that the authors of DnD adventures have slightly thicker skin than the novel authors. Then you would be wrong. Most of the RPGA's authors are not professional writers, they're hopeful authors getting a crack at publishing something through a small venue. People who are publishing novels are used to getting hammered at every turn; critique an RPGA author's work, and you (collective, not you personally) are much more likely to convince a newbie author to give up his/her dream forever. ~Harsk
motorfirebox 03-17-05, 04:07 PM	if their self-image is so fragile that they can't bear being critiqued, it's probably a good idea to get them out of the publishing business early. if someone publishes something stupid, they need to be called on that stupidity clearly and directly. a mature person will accept the criticism and learn from it, becoming a better writer. i'm not advocating insulting people. i'm advocating the idea that a spade should be called such.
stembolt 03-17-05, 10:21 PM	Then you would be wrong. Oh really, have you ever wondered why we cannot discuss novels on this message board?
m15a 03-18-05, 04:41 PM	i don't think the wizo was saying it was bad to talk about a certain work as being bad, as much as criticizing a person or group of people directly. for example, saying something like, "They don't care about good gaming, or setting flavor, they just care about how badly they can rules-lawyer the game" (no offense to edy, honestly, it was just the first post i saw . . ) just doesn't say that rpga products are poor, it's saying the *people* in rpga don't care about good gaming, etc. the point is that they can't say, "hey! i actually do care about gaming. the problem is . . . ", because they're not here . . . anyway, i'm just saying that i think that's what the wizo means . . .
Harsk 03-18-05, 06:19 PM	Oh really, have you ever wondered why we cannot discuss novels on this message board? Not once. I read the postings from the Wiz_O's when the ban went into effect. No need to wonder. You're comparing two different species of writers. Novelists, at least, can say, "Hey, I got paid decent money to do this. If people don't like it, that's their right." I agree that module authors should have the same reaction. But they don't. They lack the experience, and they lack the benefit of a book deal to reinforce their egos when someone says they aren't any good. All they've got is a little RPGA contract which, if they're lucky, paid them in the neighborhood of a quarter-cent a word. If you aren't paying for a module (and you aren't, for RPGA mods), remember that when you go to slam the person who wrote it. You will usually get much, much more than you pay for, out of RPGA modules. The person who wrote the module can use any constructive feedback you have to offer. And for the record, going back to the original poster's opinions, "Boo" is not constructive feedback. The other thing to remember is that it's not just the author's responsibility to make sure something is in-flavor for a setting. These things do get reviewed by people at WotC. The author wrote it, but actual WotC employees had to approve it. I'm frankly shocked discussion of RPGA modules is allowed on the boards. One would think that since a lot of the RPGA's authors are customers of WotC, as well as contract employees, the boards crew would be even more concerned about them than about the novelists. ~Harsk
stembolt 03-19-05, 01:04 PM	Not once. I read the postings from the Wiz_O's when the ban went into effect. No need to wonder. If you know why then would you…But since no one can possibly react worse than…you’re surprised they would “allow” discussion of… I am at a loss of how to respond to you Harsk. Now I could write out pages of response however I don’t think it would help you ever understand. Meanwhile no one else seems to have a problem so, I’m just dropping it.
Wrathamon 04-01-05, 10:00 PM	So the Dragon article about Shadow Elves was just SO not eberron? isnt a shadow elf a sub-race? and arent Drow? The main thing about Eberron is that there is a place for everything in eberron. I see no problem with whisper gnomes being a part of eberron as I have no problem with Shadow elves being a part of eberron with a favored class of Warlock. As for the Plane of Mirrors... yes these does seem odd, but horrible? I need to read the mod before drawing a conclusion but I can see many ways to have a new plane pop up, it could just be a sub-plane which I think they talked about as soemthing that was okay. I am sure the writer will "fix" any issues with new mods to explain the new plane or unknown sub-plane, but again the Mark of Heroes is not canon so I wouldnt worry about it so much. (at least I dont think it). For the totem... well I dont think the magic is totally out of the question for eberron, they have giant walking mechs, magical trains and flying boats... so a Totem that fries you works for me... it is also very pulp, but I dont think it is appropriate for the begining of a campaign at 1st level. Its too much of a stick.. more like a giant club.
stembolt 04-01-05, 11:54 PM	isnt a shadow elf a sub-race? and arent Drow? Not really. There is a big difference between a classic first edition villain race with a strong history being given a place in eberron by an article about said race (also given that they were conceived of early on in development for the dragonshard game). And a brand new slightly different gnome being slapped into eberron via an adventure.
Emirikol 04-03-05, 06:48 PM	So to summarize: If you're going to write scenarios in a campaign (whether it's Greyhawk, Eberron, or Dark Sun): 1. Know what you're talking about. 2. Introductory scenarios need to be introductions, not completely off on a tangent. I'm glad the RPGA is doing Mark of Heroes. Heck, it's free scenarios for my home campaigns. :) BTW, nothing will get done unless you send letters to RPGA-HQ. We also discuss this stuff on the Eberron Writers group (in my sig). jh