Marked for Death [Archive] - Wizards Community

Marked for Death [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Necr0mancer
07-28-05, 06:09 PM Anyone read this novel? What did you think?
Gurv
07-28-05, 06:13 PM I think that discussing novels is against the rules. In fact, I know that discussing novels is against the rules.

I suggest that we not do it.
MrFilthyIke
07-28-05, 06:16 PM I think that discussing novels is against the rules. In fact, I know that discussing novels is against the rules.

I suggest that we not do it.

That's what PMing is for. :P
Pax
07-28-05, 06:31 PM In fact, I know that discussing novels is against the rules.
It is?

Why? I mean, I coudl see there being a seperate forum which might be the ONLY place you were allowed to discuss the novels, but ... no discussion at all ...?

I don't tend to "waste my time" with game-franchise novels. But if I sw a discussionof such, who knows, somethignmight convince me to give one or another of them a try .... meaning I'd go and spend some of my money on yet another WOTC product.

The lack of discussion means that won't ever happen, though - so it doesn't make sense to me; IMO, it's counterproductive to the goal of parting me from more of my money.

So ... can someone tell me why it's against the rules ...??
Salla
07-28-05, 06:49 PM So ... can someone tell me why it's against the rules ...??

Best guess, because this is a gaming board, and thus topics that do not pertain to gaming are off-topic. You'd have to mail a moderator about it, though, to be sure.
Lenin97
07-28-05, 06:54 PM Yes discussing novels is taboo...

but I'm reading it right now. :D
MysticTheurge
07-28-05, 10:28 PM Definitely against the rules...

Which is why I put my review on Amazon.
Ibbins
07-28-05, 11:03 PM Against the rules, I gather, because the pre-existing novel discussion board went to all hell, and it was forever closed and the rest of the world was horribly, irredeemibly, punished. So it goes.
Gurv
07-29-05, 12:23 AM So ... can someone tell me why it's against the rules ...??
Because the WizO's said so. This comes from the Ground Rule (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=124488) thread in the FAQ.

Novels
A preliminary guideline, which may be updated when all the team has had time to consider the new ruling

Following a decision by the Books Department of WotC novel-related threads are now considered inappropriate on this board. However some references to novels is both necessary and inevitable. This should clarify what is allowed.

* It will be permitted to make references to novels when it is appropriate to the topic being discussed (e.g. If you are discussing “The Origens of the Moonblades” of course you will be able to mention “Evermeet: Island of the Elves.” As another example when discussing the nature of Cormyr as a campaign setting of course you can refer to the Sembia novels.)

* It will also be allowed discussion of the iconic characters who appear both in novels and supplements.

*It will not be permissible to post literary criticism of any novels in any thread.

* It will not be permissible to post a thread started specifically to discuss a novel.

* It would be fine to start a thread about an in-game topic, and ask for info on it from all sources including novels. Make it clear in your title and post what the topic actually is, rather than using the name of the book or series. (As an example:- if your party wanted to visit one of the towns in Icewind Dale it would be fine to ask for information given in the various novels about the buildings, the way the inhabitants talk to strangers etc. What you have to make clear is that the thread is to discuss the towns, not the various books).
Sarlax
07-29-05, 12:45 AM It's not anywhere in the Code of Conduct or the FAQ. Rather, it's just been declared by some of the WizOs, but even they don't have any uniformity on the subject. Just about a week ago, the novels came up on the Eberron boards. The thread was locked, but not before a Wizo made comments about the novels. He posted again a little later, telling people to stay civil but saying nothing about discussion being forbidden.
Edymnion
07-29-05, 12:52 AM As for WHY this is the rule:

Long ago, we had an entire set of boards just for discussing the various books.
Many of the authors would visit the boards to talk with the fans.

Long story short, so many people made complete asses out of themselves that they drove the authors off of the boards completely, WizO's were forced to CONSTANTLY lock threads left and right, and there were hints that some of the authors were on the verge of suing people for harrassment.

Needless to say, the WotC execs went "Damn, we're going to get sued if we let this keep going. Kill it, kill it all. Better to not have it at all than it is to lose authors and get sued!"

So, the novel boards were removed, and all discussion of non-mechanical aspects of the books were forbidden. We had our chance, and we blew it. Royally. So now, we don't have it at all.

And before someone makes a thinly veiled insult of "Oh yeah, how do you know?", I know because I was here when it happened. It was not pretty. And while I would *LOVE* to get into a 50 page long thread discussing Keith's book, I understand WHY it was done, and I agree with their reasoning.

And while not all of the WizO's agree with the decision, they have to enforce it or get fired.
Bluebrush
07-29-05, 07:00 AM Try this board instead:
http://worldsofdnd.com/forum/
I think all the Eberron Authors post there, certainly Keith and Matt do.
Pax
07-29-05, 09:47 AM Because the WizO's said so.
Well, friggin' duh.

I was looking for the logic and reaosning BEHIND their decision to declare "ixnay" on the topic - which, thankfully, Edymnion seems to have realised, as his post is exactly what I was hoping to get in response.

Now at least I know that it boils down to "the local asshats were making too many problems, so the Ops had to take their toys away from 'em". While lamentable, it's at least a decision based on sound reasoning and real need, rather than random cluelessness. ^_^ I may not like the why ... but at least I can grok it!
Gurv
07-29-05, 09:07 PM Well, friggin' duh.

I was looking for the logic and reaosning BEHIND their decision to declare "ixnay" on the topic - which, thankfully, Edymnion seems to have realised, as his post is exactly what I was hoping to get in response.
Well, if the reason was that obvious, then why didn't you ask a WizO?

I thought the fact that the WizO's said "no" would be enough for those looking for a simple reason, while those who had more depth of mind would be able to come to the conclusion that such a decision would have been made for a good reason. Such reasons would come down to either past experince with such things, and/or legalities.

I'm afraid my answer assumed things were more obvious than they were.
Pax
07-29-05, 10:06 PM Well, if the reason was that obvious, then why didn't you ask a WizO?
What, is there a rule against asking people about something they're already discussing, too? I mean,come on. If it's "a rule", then obviously that's because "the WizO's say so". So if someone says "why isit a rule", then IMO it isinescapably obvious they seek the reason behind the rule.

I thought the fact that the WizO's said "no" would be enough for those looking for a simple reason, while those who had more depth of mind would be able to come to the conclusion that such a decision would have been made for a good reason. Such reasons would come down to either past experince with such things, and/or legalities.
The conclusion does not follow.

I have seen, elsewhere int he world, similar decisions made for entirely spurious and illogical reasons. Such may not happen to be the case here, but before Edymnion's post I simply didn't know,one way or the other.
MysticTheurge
07-30-05, 08:18 AM No wonder they had to close the novel boards.
Brastan
07-31-05, 01:53 AM Sorry, but since it made it back up the page again I can't resist much more....

This "thread" is marked for Death! :D

Death = Closer by WizOz. Again sorry but some times I just find humor in the oddest/dumbest places and times. Must be what keeps me half-sane. And yes, http://worldsofdnd.com/forum/ is the unofficial pointer for novel discussions. Keep that link handy so it can be passed to people who want to talk about novels but don't know were to go.

A more direct link is Eberron Novels (http://worldsofdnd.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=12).
zentr
07-31-05, 09:59 AM What Bluebrush said. My response is there somewhere.
WizO_Sith
07-31-05, 10:48 AM As has been pointed out above, there *IS* a reason for this policy. Edymnion's post hit the nail on the head as far as what I'm allowed to discuss (there is a great deal more to it, but it would be worth my job if I went into details).

The instructions that we WizOs have recieved are absolutely clear on the subject - Novels discussion is not allowed except under the guidelines devised by the-artist-formally-known-as-WizO BigSis (who I miss more and more every day) and quoted by Edymnion. We are to close any threads or discussions that stray outside those guidelines and are not to discuss the reasons why the novels ban is in place.

There has been considerable resistance to the ban - which did not originate with the WizOs - both from the online community at large and from many of the wonderfully talented authors who visit our website. It is something that has been exceedingly tough to enforce and a consistant source of friction within the community. The WizOs realize that the policy is frustrating for the community as a whole, particularly for the authors that do want to discuss various aspects of their novels on our boards, and it's been absolutely demoralizing to those of us expected to enforce the ban.

The novels ban is the "Law of the Land" and we WizOs don't have the luxury of picking and choosing which rules are enforced.

So there we are.

This thread will be locked. Please do not restart it.

*Click*

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Necr0mancer 07-28-05, 06:09 PM	Anyone read this novel? What did you think?
Gurv 07-28-05, 06:13 PM	I think that discussing novels is against the rules. In fact, I know that discussing novels is against the rules. I suggest that we not do it.
MrFilthyIke 07-28-05, 06:16 PM	I think that discussing novels is against the rules. In fact, I know that discussing novels is against the rules. I suggest that we not do it. That's what PMing is for. :P
Pax 07-28-05, 06:31 PM	In fact, I know that discussing novels is against the rules. It is? Why? I mean, I coudl see there being a seperate forum which might be the ONLY place you were allowed to discuss the novels, but ... no discussion at all ...? I don't tend to "waste my time" with game-franchise novels. But if I sw a discussionof such, who knows, somethignmight convince me to give one or another of them a try .... meaning I'd go and spend some of my money on yet another WOTC product. The lack of discussion means that won't ever happen, though - so it doesn't make sense to me; IMO, it's counterproductive to the goal of parting me from more of my money. So ... can someone tell me why it's against the rules ...??
Salla 07-28-05, 06:49 PM	So ... can someone tell me why it's against the rules ...?? Best guess, because this is a gaming board, and thus topics that do not pertain to gaming are off-topic. You'd have to mail a moderator about it, though, to be sure.
Lenin97 07-28-05, 06:54 PM	Yes discussing novels is taboo... but I'm reading it right now. :D
MysticTheurge 07-28-05, 10:28 PM	Definitely against the rules... Which is why I put my review on Amazon.
Ibbins 07-28-05, 11:03 PM	Against the rules, I gather, because the pre-existing novel discussion board went to all hell, and it was forever closed and the rest of the world was horribly, irredeemibly, punished. So it goes.
Gurv 07-29-05, 12:23 AM	So ... can someone tell me why it's against the rules ...?? Because the WizO's said so. This comes from the Ground Rule (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=124488) thread in the FAQ. Novels A preliminary guideline, which may be updated when all the team has had time to consider the new ruling Following a decision by the Books Department of WotC novel-related threads are now considered inappropriate on this board. However some references to novels is both necessary and inevitable. This should clarify what is allowed. * It will be permitted to make references to novels when it is appropriate to the topic being discussed (e.g. If you are discussing “The Origens of the Moonblades” of course you will be able to mention “Evermeet: Island of the Elves.” As another example when discussing the nature of Cormyr as a campaign setting of course you can refer to the Sembia novels.) * It will also be allowed discussion of the iconic characters who appear both in novels and supplements. It will not be permissible to post literary criticism of any novels in any thread. It will not be permissible to post a thread started specifically to discuss a novel. * It would be fine to start a thread about an in-game topic, and ask for info on it from all sources including novels. Make it clear in your title and post what the topic actually is, rather than using the name of the book or series. (As an example:- if your party wanted to visit one of the towns in Icewind Dale it would be fine to ask for information given in the various novels about the buildings, the way the inhabitants talk to strangers etc. What you have to make clear is that the thread is to discuss the towns, not the various books).
Sarlax 07-29-05, 12:45 AM	It's not anywhere in the Code of Conduct or the FAQ. Rather, it's just been declared by some of the WizOs, but even they don't have any uniformity on the subject. Just about a week ago, the novels came up on the Eberron boards. The thread was locked, but not before a Wizo made comments about the novels. He posted again a little later, telling people to stay civil but saying nothing about discussion being forbidden.
Edymnion 07-29-05, 12:52 AM	As for WHY this is the rule: Long ago, we had an entire set of boards just for discussing the various books. Many of the authors would visit the boards to talk with the fans. Long story short, so many people made complete asses out of themselves that they drove the authors off of the boards completely, WizO's were forced to CONSTANTLY lock threads left and right, and there were hints that some of the authors were on the verge of suing people for harrassment. Needless to say, the WotC execs went "Damn, we're going to get sued if we let this keep going. Kill it, kill it all. Better to not have it at all than it is to lose authors and get sued!" So, the novel boards were removed, and all discussion of non-mechanical aspects of the books were forbidden. We had our chance, and we blew it. Royally. So now, we don't have it at all. And before someone makes a thinly veiled insult of "Oh yeah, how do you know?", I know because I was here when it happened. It was not pretty. And while I would LOVE to get into a 50 page long thread discussing Keith's book, I understand WHY it was done, and I agree with their reasoning. And while not all of the WizO's agree with the decision, they have to enforce it or get fired.
Bluebrush 07-29-05, 07:00 AM	Try this board instead: http://worldsofdnd.com/forum/ I think all the Eberron Authors post there, certainly Keith and Matt do.
Pax 07-29-05, 09:47 AM	Because the WizO's said so. Well, friggin' duh. I was looking for the logic and reaosning BEHIND their decision to declare "ixnay" on the topic - which, thankfully, Edymnion seems to have realised, as his post is exactly what I was hoping to get in response. Now at least I know that it boils down to "the local asshats were making too many problems, so the Ops had to take their toys away from 'em". While lamentable, it's at least a decision based on sound reasoning and real need, rather than random cluelessness. ^_^ I may not like the why ... but at least I can grok it!
Gurv 07-29-05, 09:07 PM	Well, friggin' duh. I was looking for the logic and reaosning BEHIND their decision to declare "ixnay" on the topic - which, thankfully, Edymnion seems to have realised, as his post is exactly what I was hoping to get in response. Well, if the reason was that obvious, then why didn't you ask a WizO? I thought the fact that the WizO's said "no" would be enough for those looking for a simple reason, while those who had more depth of mind would be able to come to the conclusion that such a decision would have been made for a good reason. Such reasons would come down to either past experince with such things, and/or legalities. I'm afraid my answer assumed things were more obvious than they were.
Pax 07-29-05, 10:06 PM	Well, if the reason was that obvious, then why didn't you ask a WizO? What, is there a rule against asking people about something they're already discussing, too? I mean,come on. If it's "a rule", then obviously that's because "the WizO's say so". So if someone says "why isit a rule", then IMO it isinescapably obvious they seek the reason behind the rule. I thought the fact that the WizO's said "no" would be enough for those looking for a simple reason, while those who had more depth of mind would be able to come to the conclusion that such a decision would have been made for a good reason. Such reasons would come down to either past experince with such things, and/or legalities. The conclusion does not follow. I have seen, elsewhere int he world, similar decisions made for entirely spurious and illogical reasons. Such may not happen to be the case here, but before Edymnion's post I simply didn't know,one way or the other.
MysticTheurge 07-30-05, 08:18 AM	No wonder they had to close the novel boards.
Brastan 07-31-05, 01:53 AM	Sorry, but since it made it back up the page again I can't resist much more.... This "thread" is marked for Death! :D Death = Closer by WizOz. Again sorry but some times I just find humor in the oddest/dumbest places and times. Must be what keeps me half-sane. And yes, http://worldsofdnd.com/forum/ is the unofficial pointer for novel discussions. Keep that link handy so it can be passed to people who want to talk about novels but don't know were to go. A more direct link is Eberron Novels (http://worldsofdnd.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=12).
zentr 07-31-05, 09:59 AM	What Bluebrush said. My response is there somewhere.
WizO_Sith 07-31-05, 10:48 AM	As has been pointed out above, there IS a reason for this policy. Edymnion's post hit the nail on the head as far as what I'm allowed to discuss (there is a great deal more to it, but it would be worth my job if I went into details). The instructions that we WizOs have recieved are absolutely clear on the subject - Novels discussion is not allowed except under the guidelines devised by the-artist-formally-known-as-WizO BigSis (who I miss more and more every day) and quoted by Edymnion. We are to close any threads or discussions that stray outside those guidelines and are not to discuss the reasons why the novels ban is in place. There has been considerable resistance to the ban - which did not originate with the WizOs - both from the online community at large and from many of the wonderfully talented authors who visit our website. It is something that has been exceedingly tough to enforce and a consistant source of friction within the community. The WizOs realize that the policy is frustrating for the community as a whole, particularly for the authors that do want to discuss various aspects of their novels on our boards, and it's been absolutely demoralizing to those of us expected to enforce the ban. The novels ban is the "Law of the Land" and we WizOs don't have the luxury of picking and choosing which rules are enforced. So there we are. This thread will be locked. Please do not restart it. Click