Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sir Elton 02-21-07, 07:58 PM	I thought this might be a good time to introduce a thread on Martial Arts in Eberron for Monks to emulate. Out of deference to SilentOne's Anti-OA Bias, I've decided to make a list of real world Martial Arts that could show up in Eberron; and divide them by Probable (European based or not very grounded in Asian Philosophy) and Improbable (those that have a strong Asian Philosophical basis). The Following Martial Arts are very probable. PANKRATION Pankration was an ancient sport and a martial art introduced in the Greek Olympic games in 648 BC. Many historians believe that, although Pankration was not one of the first Olympic sports, it was likely the most popular.[citation needed] Some also argue it to be the first all-encompassing fighting system in human history. This is a strongly debated issue in the academic community. Comment: Pankration means "No Holds Barred," and it would be very popular among Shifters. Capoeira http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Au_batido.jpg Capoeira is a Brazilian martial art created by enslaved Africans during the 16th Century. It originated by Nigerian or Angolan ethnic groups where members fought with music and the winner won a partner, usually female. Participants form a roda (circle) and take turns playing instruments, singing, and sparring in pairs in the centre of the circle. The game is marked by fluid acrobatic play, feints, subterfuge, and extensive use of groundwork, as well as sweeps, kicks, and headbutts. Technique and strategy are the key elements to playing a good game. Capoeira has two main styles, known as "regional" and "Angola." Comment: I think this would be a great martial art among the Daargun. IT would be awesome to see a bugbear practice this graceful martial art. Gymnopaedia http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Corybantian_dance_from_Smith%27s_Diction ary_of_Antiquities_%28SALTATIO_article%2 9.png n ancient Sparta the Gymnopaedia was a yearly celebration during which naked youths displayed their athletic and martial skills through the medium of dancing. The custom was introduced early in the seventh century, concurrently with the introduction of naked athletics, oiling the body for exercise so as to highlight its beauty, and the formalization of pederastic pedagogy. Comment: Ooh, I could see Displaced Cyran monks practicing Gymnopaedia. Bâton français From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search The Bâton français, French for 'French staff', also known as French stick fighting, is a European historical fencing discipline which uses a staff about 4 feet long. The techniques have much in common with longsword and quarterstaff. The origins of this system are lost in antiquity but probably share a common root with other European stick fighting systems such as quarterstaff, German Stockfechten, Portuguese Jogo do Pau etc. The Bâton was systematized in France during the 1800s and is still part of a set of skills associated with the modern French martial art of boxe française (Savate). Gouren Gouren is a style of wrestling which has been established in Brittany for several centuries. In France, gouren is overseen by the Fédération Française de Lutte (French Wrestling Federation). Lutta corsa From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Lutta corsa (in Corsican; the French name is Lutte corse; both mean "Corsican free fighting") is an ancient, unarmed martial art developed from ancient pankration by shepherds on the Mediterranean island of Corsica. Savate From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search Savate (pronounced /savat/), also known as boxe française (French boxing), French Kickboxing or French Footfighting, is a French martial art which uses both the hands and feet as weapons and combines elements of western boxing with graceful kicking techniques. Only foot kicks are allowed, unlike some systems such as Muay Thai which allow the use of the knees or shins). Savate is perhaps the only style of kickboxing in which the fighters habitually wear shoes. A practitioner of savate is called a savateur (male) or savateuse (female). Comment: The French martial arts would be awesome in the Lhazaar Principalities. Kampfringen Kampfringen ("combat grappling") was the term used for unarmed combat systems originating in the Holy Roman Empire during the Middle Ages and Renaissance. It employed all ranges of fighting, from striking to ground-fighting, and included joint-locks, leverage throws, pain compliance grips, and various striking techniques. By modern definitions, it would be considered a complete mixed martial art. It is closely related to historical dagger-fighting systems, and indeed, dagger-fighting might be considered to be a branch of kampfringen. The primary man to have shaped kampfringen at the dawning of the Renaissance appears to have been Austrian master Ott Jud. Ott was a master of the early 1400s, probably from southern Germany. He is said to have developed an effective system of grappling to be used in serious combat, including joint breaks, arm locks and throws designed to cause serious injury. No treatise from Ott's own hand has survived, but his system is taught by several fencing masters of the later 15th century, including Hans Talhoffer (1443), Peter von Danzig and Jud Lew. Paulus Kal counts him among the "society of Liechtenauer" (possibly a direct student of Liechtenauer's), saying that he was wrestling teacher to the "lords of Austria" (possibly under Frederick III, c.f. Welle 1993, p. 259). According to both Talhoffer and Lew, Ott was a baptized Jew. Welle (p. 260) cites an anecdote told by Martin Luther in a lecture on Genesis 32 (the wrestling of Jacob with the angel) published in 1580, according to which there was a famous Jewish wrestling master at the court of Frederick. Later masters, including Fiore dei Liberi (c. 1410), Fabian von Auerswald (1462), Pietro Monte (c. 1480), and Hanns Wurm (c. 1500), continued this tradition in manuals that detail both sword fighting and kampfringen. Many other masters also commented on the importance and efficiency of grappling in combat, but did not detail the systems they employed. Many manuals combine fencing and wrestling into a specialized branch of kampfringen called ringen am schwert ("wrestling at the sword"), designed to be used during armed combat. This included closing techniques, disarms, weapon-seizures, pommel-strikes, and weapon-aided joint-locks. In many cases, such techniques were designed to be used on the battle-field against armored opponents, and included techniques for targeting the joints and weak points in armor. In his 1657 work on rapier and unarmed combat, German master of arms Johan Georg Pascha reveals an extraordinary range of unarmed techniques (which some have said resemble styles of Chinese wing chun kung fu, due to its emphasis on rapid strikes at close range). This is generally considered to be a distinct branch of kampfringen, sometimes called "Pascha's ringen". Kampfringen disappeared around the 18th century, as fencing lost all relevance to battle and self-defense and became focused on the ritual duel. Striking and grappling were considered dishonorable in this context, and so there was little need to learn such techniques. New systems of wrestling were developed for sport purposes, but have no connection to the ancient art. Kampfringen is currently being revived along with other historical fighting systems by organizations around the world. Commentary: Since Kampfringen is very German, it would appear most likely in Karrnath. Karrnathi monks would specialize in the unarmed combat aspects of the art, while Fighters, Karrnathi Soulknives, and Swashbucklers would specialize in the rapier aspects.
Sir Elton 02-21-07, 08:08 PM	More Probable Martial Arts Bare-knuckle boxing (also bare-knuckle for short or fisticuffs) is the original, now rather antiquated form of boxing, more closely-related to ancient combat sports. It involves two individuals fighting without any gloves or other form of padding on their hands. The practice of Pygme Pyx (Greek bare knuckle boxing) dates back to Ancient Greece. It is difficult to demonstrate a linear historical connection between the ancient Greek version of the sport and the revival of boxing in England (see below) but a documented, continual tradition of bare-fist fighting was present in Italy from AD 200 to 1800. Specific standards for bare-fisted fighting began to form in the mid-18th century when Jack Broughton began to apply rules to make contests both safer and fairer. These rules dictated that a round ended when a fighter took a knee or was knocked down and failed to rise before the thirty count. There was no time limit, so the actual fight ended when a fighter could not get up before the count of ten or was unable to present himself to his opponent for the next round under his own power after thirty seconds of recovery. This was how a majority of these massive bouts ended. At the height of bare-knuckle's popularity in the mid-19th century, nightly fights lasting sixty to one hundred rounds or more were not uncommon. By the 20th century, the practice had all but disappeared, replaced by its much more regulated descendant, modern gloved boxing. However, some underground bare-knuckle clubs still exist. Many small venues appeared in the late 1990s and early 2000s; Many people cite the movie Fight Club as inspiration for this. Comentary: This martial art would be perfect for Warforged brawlers. Yağlı güreş From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search Yağlı Güreş is the Turkish national sport. It is commonly known as oil wrestling (sometimes as grease wrestling) because the wrestlers douse themselves with olive oil. It is related to Uzbek Kurash and to Tatar Köräş. Commentary: Since the Valanar Elves seemingly dress in Arabian costumes, Yağlı Güreş seems to be a perfect unarmed martial art for their monks. Marine Corps LINE combat system From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The LINE (Linear Infighting Neurological Override Engagement) Combat System was a martial arts program used by the United States Marine Corps between 1980 and 2002. Designed to be performed even while wearing full combat gear (including flak vest and pack), LINE focuses on causing the most painful damage possible with the least amount of movement. The accurate use of pressure points and efficient breaking of bones and hard tissue (especially the elbows, wrists, knees, and nose) are among the first steps of every move. This is intended to cause a "neurological override": such extreme pain that the opponent's brain can not sufficiently focus to allow him to fight back and may even cause the opponent to lose consciousness. The initial attack is followed by a takedown, with the attacker generally staying in contact with the broken limb to maintain leverage on the target. The takedown is immediately followed by a straight-legged downward stomp of the opponent's head with the heel. As LINE is used while wearing combat boots and full gear, the impact is intended to be fatal. This being said, it should be kept in mind that even blunt force of this weight on the head of a healthy adult is unlikely to kill immediately. Advanced LINE training teaches the most anatomically economical uses of knives, bayonets, and improvised weapons such as e-tools and helmets. LINE was replaced in 2002 by the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP). Today it is still taught in US Army Special Forces during phase II and III of its Special Forces Qualification Course, taught in Fort Bragg, North Carolina. The main school is also located in nearby Fayetteville, North Carolina. Commentary: Aundair Monks would be wonderful with this unarmed Martial Art. Jeet Kune Do From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jeet Kune Do (Chinese: 截 拳 道 Cantonese: Jitkyùndou Pinyin: Jiéquándào, lit. "Way of the Intercepting Fist"), also Jeet Kun Do or JKD, is a martial arts combat system developed by martial artist and actor Bruce Lee. In 2004, the Bruce Lee Foundation decided to use the name Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do to refer to the system that Lee founded. "Jun Fan" was Lee's Chinese given name, so the literal translation is "Bruce Lee's Way of the Intercepting Fist." Commentary: I don't care what you say, SilentOne, Jeet Kune Do is totally devoid of all Oriental Philosophy. (Jun Fan) Jeet Kune Do is perfect for Brelish Monks and for those players and DMs who want an "Orental" Martial Art without the OA baggage.
Sir Elton 02-21-07, 08:12 PM	Improbable Martial Arts. If you don't want OA in your Eberron, STAY AWAY FROM THESE. RUN AWAY, RUN AS FAR AS YOU CAN. Iran Koshti. (Commentary: Although Iran is heavily influenced by Western Thought, Iran was founded by the Aryans, which were truely Oriental.) Borneo * Borneo Silat [edit] Burma Further information: Thaing * Bando * Banshay * Lethwei * Naban [edit] Cambodia * Bokator * Khmer Boxing * Khmer Traditional Wrestling [edit] Chinese martial arts (中國武術) Main article: List of Chinese martial arts * Bafaquan (八法拳) - Eight Methods * Baguazhang (八卦掌 Pa Kua Chang) - Eight-Trigrams Palm * Bajiquan (八極拳) - Eight Extremes Fist * Bak Mei (白眉拳) - White Eyebrow * Black Tiger Kung Fu (黑虎拳) * Chaquan (查拳) - Cha Fist * Chow Gar Southern Praying Mantis * Choy Gar(蔡家) * Choy Lay Fut (蔡李佛) * Ditangquan (地躺拳) - Ground-Prone Fist, Ground Tumbling Boxing * Dragon Kung Fu (龍形拳) * Eagle Claw (鷹爪翻子拳) * Emeiquan (峨嵋拳, O Mei Ch'uan) * Fanziquan (翻子拳) - Overturning Fist * Five Ancestors (五祖拳) * Fujian White Crane (白鶴拳) * Gou Quan (狗拳) - Dog Fist * Hsing Yi (形意拳, Xingyi quan) - Shape-Intent Fist * Houquan (猴拳) - Monkey Fist * Huaquan (華拳) - Hua Fist * Hung Fut (洪佛) - Hung and Buddha style kung fu * Hung Gar (洪家) * Hu Quan (虎拳) - Tiger Fist * Jow-Ga Kung Fu (周家) - Jow family style * Lau Gar (刘家) - Lau family style * Leopard (豹拳) * Liu Seong Kuntao (also Liu Seong Gung Fu, Liu Seong Chuan Fa) * Liu Shing Ch'uan (Luixinquan) * Liuhe Bafa (六合八法 Liu He Pa Fa, Lok Hup Ba Fa) * Long fist kung fu (Northern Shaolin Long Fist Kung Fu) * Mei Hua Quan (梅花拳 Plum Blossom Fist) * My Jong Law Horn (迷蹤羅漢拳) * Nanquan(南拳) * Northern Praying Mantis (北派螳螂拳) * Pak Mei (White Eyebrow) (白眉拳) or Bak Mei * Pa Kua Chang (八卦掌, Baguazhang) * Paochui (炮捶) - Cannon Punch * Piguaquan (劈掛拳) - Chop-Hitch Fist * Shaolin Nam Pai Chuan(少林南派拳) * Shaolin Quan (少林拳) * Shuai Jiao (摔跤) * Shequan (蛇拳) - Snake Fist * Southern Praying Mantis (南派螳螂拳) * Tai Chi Chuan (太極拳 T'ai Chi Ch'uan, Taijiquan) - Ultimate Supreme Fist * Tantui (彈腿/譚腿) * Tien Shan Pai(天山派) * Tongbeiquan (通背拳) - Through-the-Back Fist * Wing Chun (詠春拳) * Wudangquan (武當拳) * Xingyiquan (形意拳 Hsing-i Ch'uan) * Yau Kung Mun * Yingzhaoquan (鷹爪拳) - Eagle Claw Fist * Yiquan (意拳 I Ch'uan) * Zui Quan (醉酒拳) - Drunken Fist Modern styles: * Do Pi Kung Fu * Jing Quan Do * Kuen-Do * San shou (散手) or San Da * San soo [edit] Filipino martial arts (Philippines) * Buno * Cinco Teros * Dumog * Eskrima (Kali) * Espada y Daga * Jendo * Kali Sikaran * Kombatan * Pananjakman * Pangamut * Sikaran * Suntukan * Yawyan [edit] Indian martial arts Main article: Indian martial arts Further information: Dravidian martial arts * Adithada * Angampora * Bothati * But Marma Atti * Gatka * Inbuan Wrestling * Kabaddi * Kalarippayattu * Kuttu Varisai * Lathi * Malla-yuddha * Mallakrida * Malyutham * Marma Adi * Mukna * Niyuddha-kride * Pehlwani * Sarit Sarak * Shastar Vidiya * Silambam Nillaikalakki * Varma Kalai * Vajra Mushti / Vajra Mukti [edit] Indonesia * Kuntao * Silat * Sindo [edit] Japanese martial arts (日本武芸) * Aikido (合気道) * Battojutsu (抜刀術) * Bojutsu (棒術) * Bujinkan (武神館) * Daito-ryu aiki-jujutsu (大東流) * Genbukan * Goshin Jujitsu (護身柔術) * Hakko Ryu (八光流) * Iaido(居合道、居合術 Iaijutsu) * Jinenkan * Jojutsu (杖術) * Judo (柔道) * Jujutsu (柔術、Jiujitsu, Jujitsu) * Kendo (剣道) * Kenjutsu (剣術) * Kenpo kai (拳法會) * Kyokushin * Kyudo (弓道) * Naginata-do (薙刀道) * Nakamura Ryu * Nanbudo * Ninjutsu (忍術 Ninpo 忍法) * Nippon Kempo (拳法) * Shindo Yoshin Ryu * Shidokan * Shinkendo * Shintaido (新体道) * Shintai Do (心体道) * Shoot boxing (シュートボクシング) * Shooto (修斗) * Shorinji kempo (少林寺拳法) * Shotokan * Shukokai * Sumo (相撲) * Taido (躰道) * Taiho-Jitsu * Taijutsu (体術) * Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu (天真正伝香取神道流) * Toyama Ryu * Yabusame (流鏑馬) * Yagyu Shingan-ryu * Yanagi ryu * Yoshida ha bujutsu Okinawa * Goju-ryu * Isshin-ryu * Karate (空手) * Okinawan kobudo * Shorin-ryu * Tegumi (手組) [edit] Korean martial arts (한국무술/韓國武術) * Gwon-gyokdo (권격도/拳擊道) * Haidong Gumdo (해동검도/海東劍道) * Han Mu Do (한무도/韓武道) * Hankido (한기도) * Hankumdo (한검도) * Hapkido (합기도/合氣道) * Hoi Jeon Moo Sool (회전무술) * Hup Kwon Do * Hwa Rang Do (화랑도/花郎道) * Kuk Sool Won (국술원/國術院) * Kumdo (검도/劍道 Gumdo) * Kyuki Do * Shippalgi (십팔기/十八技) * Soo Bahk Do (수박도/手搏道) * Ssireum (씨름) - Korean Sumo Wrestling * Taekwondo (태권도/跆拳道) * Taekyon (택견) * Tang Soo Do (탕수도/唐手道) * Tukong moosul (特攻武術) * WonHwaDo (원화도/圓和道) [edit] Laos * Ling Lom [edit] Malaysia * Tomoi [edit] Mongolia * Mongolian wrestling [edit] Sri Lankan martial arts * Angampora * China adi [edit] Thailand * Krabi Krabong * Lerdrit * Muay Boran * Muay Thai [edit] Tibet * Boabom * Kateda (claimed Tibetan origin) [edit] Vietnamese Martial Arts (Võ Thuật Việt Nam) * Cuong Nhu * Tu-Thân * Viet Vo Dao/ Việt Võ Đạo (越武道) o Qwan Ki Do (Quan Khi Dao) o Vovinam * Vo Dao Vietnam
Sir Elton 02-21-07, 08:17 PM	Any comments would be greatful.
thebestideaieverhad 02-21-07, 08:27 PM	this is great and all, but whats the application of this in the game? is this just for inspiration, flavor etc...? or are you trying to make custom mechanics based on different martial arts styles?
Sir Elton 02-21-07, 08:29 PM	this is great and all, but whats the application of this in the game? is this just for inspiration, flavor etc...? or are you trying to make custom mechanics based on different martial arts styles? Well, the custom mechanics are already made in a *GASP* 3rd-Party Product! *GASP!* :) So I put them up for inspiration. I want to see if anyone can come up with different martial arts for their monks in Eberron.
Volaran 02-21-07, 08:54 PM	I'll bite. Most of the martial arts styles represented in Eberron tend to be racial-based (the Path of Shadows) or developed by specific monastic/religious orders (the kama-based style of the Mockery, the longsword-style associated with followers of Dol Dorn) rather than nationalistic styles (to my recollection at least). So far here, I've seen a fair description of a real-world martial art and usually a one sentence toss off for a particular group or nation. In some cases, you haven't even suggested an Eberron-specific use. Is there something in specific about Lhazaar that says "french kick-boxing" to you? Something more than 'arabian clothing' that suggests the Valenar might be up for some oil wrestling? Something about LINE (which from its description, suggests feets allowing an armoured monk might be in order) that somehow links to the cultural themes of Aundair? It is indeed a very nice list, and perhaps useful for descriptive purposes, but aside from a few Eberron-terms listed after a few of them, there isn't a lot of context here for adapting these to Eberron, which seemed to the point of the thread.
mhacdebhandia 02-21-07, 10:21 PM	I am utterly at a loss to imagine why Eberron should be any more European than Asian, culturally speaking. I don't think of any nation in Eberron having a strong association with any particular part of the real world. Given that, I instinctively disagree with your "probable" (European) and "improbable" (Asian) categories. I see no reason why brutally militaristic Karrnathi fighters wouldn't have developed a hard, formal fighting style like karate or an aggressive style like muay thai.
Sir Elton 02-21-07, 10:25 PM	Actually, neither do I. But I made the list for SilentOne and his ilk so that they'd feel better. :) I listed them as "probable" and "improbable" so that individual DMs can use any real world martial art to their hearts content. It's your game, you can use any martial art in those lists as you like. And please note that there are several martial arts missing. The full list is on Wikipedia. :)
Swordsage_Master 02-21-07, 11:53 PM	I think its a nice list although your listing has a couple of errors in reference to Okinawan and Japanese martial arts, specifically the umbrella generic term of Karate. But I digress. that is a topic for another board. I don't quite see the point of this list in relation to the flavor of eberron. There are many referenced martial art styles and traditions in existing Eberron products as well as Keith's description of monastic traditions in some of his past articles. I might also mention that the Book of Nine Swords is an outstanding book that one can develope a numerous amount of martial traditions that fit quite nicely into Eberron. I think that one might draw inspiration from your list if they want to do a lot of work to create something from it, but (this is just my opinion) it's just wrong to take a martial art like Karate and just blatantly set it into the unique fantasy world of Eberron as is. The FR has definite earth based cultures that mirror exactly our historical references, anyone can see it in the products. For that matter so does Greyhawk. Eberron is different because the creators, artists, and writers went out of there way to stay true to a uniquely different world. Even though we see influence in the art or description in written word that seem to be from our world, that is a psycological anomole that our minds create to anchor us. It is in reality such a blend of many influences that it becomes unique unto itself. So to are the monastic traditions in Eberron that have been eluded to before. While its a nice list from Wikipedia, it seems like a lot of typing for naught. I just don't see any of the list as an off the shelf style for Eberron. I also don't really understand catagorizing them into probable and inprobable and how or why you made the distinction.
Sir Elton 02-22-07, 12:25 AM	While its a nice list from Wikipedia, it seems like a lot of typing for naught. I just don't see any of the list as an off the shelf style for Eberron. I also don't really understand catagorizing them into probable and inprobable and how or why you made the distinction. But why???? I don't see any need for any of this, as it really doesn't fit at all with any Eberron flavor that I've seen whatsoever, particularly the introduction of real-world religions. Might just be my anti-OA bias speaking, but please stay as far away from my Eberron as you can. That's why.
mhacdebhandia 02-22-07, 02:37 AM	But that just makes SilentOne seem like a baby! ;) Why cater to him/her/it?
Nlogue 02-22-07, 04:10 AM	Hey All, Great comprehensive list! That said, what I love about fantasy is how its well...fantastic, not realistic. I've come up with some martial art musings for Eberron I use in home games that explore some of the things that set Eberron apart from reality. One particular martial arts thingee I concocted is coming out in Dragon #345, in a "Dragonmark" I wrote...don't worry guys, there will be no square-headed warforged depicted therein. :) I think fantasy martial arts should totally kick conventional martial arts in the ass. Cause, magic and beasties abound, so your gong-fu had better be rocking if you want to knock out a purple worm with your three-inch punch. :) I like racial martial arts for Eberron especially (hint for the article here for sure) because the races have definate physical and psychological advantages they can harness melee combat. Still that list is awesome, so thanks for compiling it, makes me dream happy of Ninjas and Superspies. Haven't played the old N and S in awhile, but I this awesome thread has definately got me dusting off the books for some bone-crunching RPG action in the near future!!! Nick
Sir Elton 02-22-07, 09:17 AM	That's one of the reasons why I like Rolemaster so much. :p I think it's awesome. Oh, did you know that a properly trained martial artist can beat a tiger to exhaustion? :)
Sir Elton 02-22-07, 09:20 AM	But that just makes SilentOne seem like a baby! ;) Why cater to him/her/it? Because, if I had him in my Eberron game, I'd have too according all the DMs and Wizards of the Coast. The DM brigade on these forums burned me in the face one too many times. :rant: So this is my way of slapping them in the face.
AntiSean 02-22-07, 09:23 AM	Someone posted a comment that wasn't in agreement with a post of yours, so you decided to spam the forum with a new thread consisting of nothing more than a copy/paste from wikipedia plus a handful of comments selected randomly that do nothing whatsoever to integrate that information to the setting? Perhaps next time you should try engaging someone with a different opinion in an actual discussion, rather than behaving like a petulant child and further deteriorating the S/N ratio of this board.
Sir Elton 02-22-07, 09:50 AM	That's part of it. I've also chosen to commission Storn to do a series of drawings of Eberronic Soulknives (seven of them actually) fighting opponents, and I thought I would spur some kind of martial arts discussion in preparation for that. Each soulknife would be practicing a different kind of Mindblade art. For example: -- The first mindblade art, the Void, is something like the Eight-point Blocking System. I'm thinking of having a twelve year-old practice with his master. -- The second mindblade art, the Heron's Blade, is a combination of German fencing and Spanish fencing. It's very fast and very "fighting defensively" or "Combat Expertise" oriented. It would be perfect to show a human female soulknife tussling it up with a Karrnathi swashbuckler. -- The third mindblade art, the Crane's Defense, is basically about parrying magic rays. It would be awesome to show a Changling soulknife parry a beholder's ray. -- The fourth Mindblade Art, the Dragon's Dance, is grace and beauty; poetry in motion, and wuxia derived. I'd like storn to show a Female personality Warforged soulknife do battle with an Inspired and his flying iron sleeve (one question, what would you call the equivalent of the Buddha's Palm from The Iron Monkey in Eberron?). She will be wearing men's board shorts. ;) -- The fifth Mindblade Art, the Lion's Heart, is the opposite of the Heron's Blade, it's Hack & Slash. Very medieval swordsmanship derived. I'd like Storn to draw up a Kalashtar soulknife battling the Lord of Blades with the art (and with a scarlet mindblade). ;) -- The Sixth Mindblade Art is Silver Flame's Harmony. It's about peace and harmony in your own soul while the world in chaos about you. I'd like Storn to show a female Dreamsight Shifter Soulknife who has shifted be at peace with herself as she fights an invisible foe. -- The Seventh Mindblade Art, The Storm's Edge or Fire Within has unpredictable moves, as the Soulknife dips into his or her aggressive side. Yeah, I know, it makes sense to have a Wildhunt Shifter show this off. But, I'm going to have Storn draw a gnome fighting a bugbear. ;)
Sir Elton 02-22-07, 10:04 AM	actually, I'd have him storyboard the conflicts if at all possible. :p
Kid SixXx 02-22-07, 10:28 AM	Ooookay, since we seem to be perturbed with the real world parallels, I will create an Eberron based thingie to earn more scorn: Martial Arts in Eberron The practice of unarmed combat in Khorvaire is a relatively new phenomenon. The origins of such forms of fighting arguably coincide with the emigration of the Kalashtar from Adar following the siege of that nation by The Inspired, the rulers of Riedra. The Kalahstar have a martial tradition known as Sheshan Talarash Dasyannah, which roughly translates into "Dancing with the shadows on the path to light." For lack of a better description, Sheshan Talarash Dasyannah is akin to "moving meditation"; consisting of smooth fluid motions that lend themselves to either the traditional combative arts of Sarlona or rhythmic trances often mistaken for dance. Those who focus on the dancing aspects of Sheshan Talarash Dasyannah are said to be "staying in the light", while those who focus on the combative arts are said to be "facing the shadows". Sheshan Talarash Dasyannah is at the core of many of the Kalashtar fighting styles. The Soulblades (traditional defenders of Kalashtar communities) incorprate Sheshan Talarash Dasyannah into a form of combat known as Korushala (ie. literally "Dagger of the Mind") and use the style to lethal effect. Practicioners of Korushala incorporate the footwork of Sheshan Talarash Dasyannah but tend to take more agressive stances. Korushala practicioners also use the meditative techniques of Sheshan Talarash Dasyannah to psionically enhance their mindblades, or even forge their mindblades into different shapes (including mental constructs that serve as shields or even thrown weapons). Those Kalashtar that favor the unarmed form of Sheshan Talarash Dasyannah and do not use the mind dagger, form another sector of the practicioners that "face the shadows": they are primarly known as "monks." The monks of the Kalashtar once practiced their art in secret, but the perilous days following the Last War have proved to be a windfall for them. It is fairly common to find at least one or two Sheshan Talarash Dasyannah schools in Kalashtar commmunities around Khorvaire, and these facilities serve as souces of revenue for such communities as the Kalashtar monks cheerfully teach the subtleties of The Path of Shadows to all who appear to have the discipline to learn it, in continuance of a proud tradition they followed in Adar with the humans in Sarlona. Such schools also serve as meeting places & venues for cultural exchange. Some Kalashtar festivals often include open exhibitions consisting of displays of weapon prowess and tuelka: the "stances of the void" or dance-like movements that impart the basic body positioning techniques typically used in combat. The monks of the Kalashtar commonly fight unarmed, but tend to employ a variety of strange weapons. Most of these weapons are used for training purposes in order to reinforce unarmed techniques, but they occasionally find their way into actual fights. The names of these weapons in the Kalashtar language (Quori) are virtually unpronouncable, but they tend to enjoy such colorful titles as the Kalahstar Crescent Staff (monk's spade), the singing sticks (nunchaku. I stole the name from Dark Sun. :( ), the "clawfoot" knife (kama), ghost tiger swords (tiger hook swords), and the like. EDIT: Ack. Posted this before I noticed that Sir Elton also posted his mind blade forms. Bah.
Sir Elton 02-22-07, 10:33 AM	I think your post is awesome anyway, KidSixx. :)
Kid SixXx 02-22-07, 10:48 AM	Double post!
Kid SixXx 02-22-07, 10:53 AM	I think your post is awesome anyway, KidSixx. :) Thanks! Since Secrets of Sarlona tends to brush a lot of Asian culture over Sarlona, I wanted to incorporate that into Kalashtar communities. Having Sheshan Talarash Dasyannah, appear to be less of a form of unarmed combat and more of a lifestyle seemed like a logical thing do to, as well as having the practice of the Path of Shadows bring a sense of holistic life to the Kalashtar. I thought that life in the Kalashtar sections of any city would probably revolve around either a temple devoted to il-Yannah or a Sheshan Talarash Dasyannah dojo, but then it occured to me that both of those buildings might be one and the same. I also figured that the exotic allure of the martial form of Sheshan Talarash Dasyannah would attract your more rank and file "normal" citizen of Khorvaire sorta like the karate dojo boom of the 80's. Not every citizen of Sharn might be able to legally (or practically) carry a sword around, so that might make unarmed combat even more attractive to Joe Citizen, especially after the Last War... .. and given that some areas of Sharn are just as dangerous as any battlefield on Eberron... A matter further complicated by the wonderful public service efforts of the timely and dependable Sharn Watch. ;) The Dojos / Temples would be the Kalashtar's link to the outside world: draw in paying customers, teach them how to fight, and allow the Kalashtar to learn about their new surroundings via small talk with the locals after class was done. I included the soulknife materiel to give a nod to the fluff in RoE and the "Blades of the Quori" article for Dragonshards that turned the Soulknife into my favorite class practically overnight. I was going to include something about the Inspired, their styles of combat, & how they differ from the Kalashtar, but my boss suddenly shoved a large pile of papers on my desk. :(
Sir Elton 02-22-07, 11:18 AM	I was looking at the Secrets of Sarlonia art gallery, and while I couldn't find any pictures of the three Quori in the book, one picture stood out in my mind. A Riedran village where everyone wears veils. to turn it around for this thread, what about an unarmed martial art based on veil usage as a weapon? Elton.
Kid SixXx 02-22-07, 12:22 PM	Hey, it's lunchtime! Came up with these thoughts after munching on my Ham Salad Sandwich on Whole Wheat: The Martial Arts of the Dhakaani One of the most identifiable forms of unarmed combat native to Khorvaire is the form known as Kurog'shash, commonly practiced by the goblinoids of Dhakaan region of Khorvaire, as well as in the newly formed nation of Darguun. It is this form of combat that is the fly in the ointment of most scholars who tie the origin of unarmed combat to the arrival of the Kalashtar. The Heirs of Dhakaan have been practicing Kurog'shash for centuries; they've just never bothered to teach the style to anyone other than fellow goblinoids. Little is known about Kurog'shash as the Dhakaani guard its mysteries jealously, but commerce with the nation of Darguun has brought some insight. The primary practitioners of this form of combat are the Shaarat'khesh ("silent blades"): a elite order of spies and assassins consisting primarily of goblins. Apparently there are several sub-schools of thought in Kurog'shash: some emphasize footwork and stealth, while others focus on operating in unison with other Shaarat'khesh & launching synchronized attacks.. The hallmark of the latter practice is a formalized system of sequenced attack patterns known as the Gul'khesh'guthra'tok ("one knife strikes as many"), in which several Shaarat'khesh fall upon a single opponent in one fluid series of motions, in an effort to either incapacitate or kill the hapless target. The primary focus of the Gul'khesh'guthra'tok system is the maintainance of silence. One or two Shaarat'khesh might strike for the legs of an opponent in an attempt to hobble the unfortunate soul, while a third follows his allies closely in anticipation of delivering a coup de grace or a knockout blow after his fellows bring down the target to the ground. It is the efficient use of the Gul'khesh'guthra'tok that has probably led to the common tales in Dhakanni folklore about a single Shaarat'khesh leaving an entire camp of enemy warriors lying in pools of their own blood in one blinding flash of motion. The warriors were probably set upon by not just one Shaarat'khesh, but several. Unlike the exotic weapons wielded by the monks of the Kalashtar, the Shaarat'khesh tend to use the practical weapons native to their race. Common Shaarat'khesh weapons include daggers, shortened swords, bows, darts, or the chain weapons typically encountered in goblinoid society. The Shaarat'khesh prefer short bladed weapons because they are easily concealed in clothing & can be to brought to bear at a moment's notice. The Shaarat'khesh feel that engaging a foe in close combat is the best way to guarantee his elimination. I'll take a look at the "veil combat" thing when I get home & get a chance to look at that illio.
Sir Elton 02-22-07, 12:35 PM	Riedran Veil-Do Riedrans are often encouraged to hide a part of their face. Wearing a veil to protect their modesty. In fact, veils have become part of their culture that "magic" "plastic" and "animated" veils are sometimes created. The first can overcome their dimensions in width and length. The second can move on their own. Riedran Viel-Do is a martial art that incorporates the veil. Although Riedran farmers have trained to use simple farm tools for self-defense, Reidran city dwellers often have to protect themselves. Veil martial arts often means having to remove the veil and using it with quickness and agility to defeat an assailant. The martial art involves precise strikes and disarming techinques. And those with magic veils often use the magic veil to grapple their opponents. Precise striking with the grappling veil technique could mean strangulation. The martial art was developed primarily as a woman's martial art of self defense. There is a martial sorority called the Sisters of the Veil that practice this martial art. They also happen to be belly dancing afficionados. :)
ArcTan 02-22-07, 03:49 PM	Actually, neither do I. But I made the list for SilentOne and his ilk so that they'd feel better. :) Okay, see, I don't recall that SilentOne and "his ilk" (which includes me) had any problem with "Oriental" as opposed to "Occidental" martial arts. What we had a problem with was the whole idea of mapping real-world concepts onto Eberron directly without much alteration, as though the real world was some kind of DM's toolbox, and as though it was important to make every borrowing from the real world match some kind of "theme" -- so that cultures that look and sound "Oriental" have "Oriental" religions and martial styles. This is why I don't like what you've done here -- it's a big self-indulgent listing of martial arts, way more than any DM would actually find useful for adding to a campaign, with *no in-depth explanation* of why any one martial art fits with any one culture other than "It'd look cool for X to do Y". Why should Darguun goblinoids be capoeiristas, beyond the vague associations we get from the Darguun having a slave culture? Why should the Valenar have a Turkish martial art because they dress in "Arabian costumes"? Just because Karrnath has a vaguely Gothic feel to it, a "very German" martial art fits there? It's *that* kind of nonsense I don't like. That kind of mindless stereotyping. Use all the ideas from real-life "Oriental" cultures, with the philosophy, with the martial arts systems, whatever -- but have an actual in-game in-world explanation for why they belong beyond the ridiculous stereotyping of saying that because something is "Oriental" it automatically gets all the trappings of "the Orient". (I'm being harsher than I would normally be. I don't react as badly as SilentOne does to the *idea* of an "Oriental-themed" campaign, but to have that kind of stereotyping pushed as extremely as it was here -- here's a big huge list of real-life martial arts that are cool because they're *from real life*, dude! -- and little to no actual justification for how or why to use them in a fantasy world -- yeah, it's the kind of crap I hate. Next we'll be coming up with a Japanese tea ceremony and saying that the tea ceremony, unaltered, is practiced by Adarans because Adarans are contemplative and Eastern, and calling that worldbuilding.)
Sir Elton 02-22-07, 06:17 PM	Okay, ArcTan, since you want imaginary cultures to be built without a frame of reference. Let's strip everything down and see where everything comes from. The most important part of Culture is their collective belief. What does a culture believe in? Then you can build up from there. For Sarlonians and Khorvairians, they were the Soveriegn Host and the Dark Six. When the Inspired took over, the Riedrans turned their belief over to the Inspired. While the Humans of Khorvaire had a wide open space to explore and colonize. So, right away you have a division of belief. The Reidrans have a more Medieval European point of thought: They believe in a Central authority. (Whether they have a Tea Ceremony or not is really moot. The root of all culture is a collective belief of the people). The Khorvaireans have a much more Post Modern, Post War belief. A Post War belief that seems like WW2, but with that of the Vietnam War added in the mix. Post Vietnam War-like feelings ran very high after the destruction of Cyre and in Kaius' own feelings. While Breland probably has strong Post World War II like feelings. Apparently Queen Aurala thinks that the War ended on a high note for her people. But the Khorvaireans have a stronger belief in personal and national freedom. Then you build it up from there. But your little outburst on this thread destroyed the spirit of this thread. That is developing new original martial arts using the real ones as a point of reference. Your little outburst should have been expressed somewhere else. Not all Martial Arts are oriental, and not all DMs' beliefs on this topic overlaps with yours. So, keep your World Building Angst of this thread and find the proper thread to express it. In other words, "Kiss my foot, ArcTan." :)
Kinger 02-22-07, 07:00 PM	Droaam Ironfist Though scholars typically abhor the very notion of calling this practice a martial art, it cannot be denied that this pugilistic tradition from Droaam is a sophisticated combat tradition. Developed by the ogres of Droaam prior to the coming of the Hags, Ironfist is a style developed to capitalize upon the abilities of its originators, namely their size and formidable strength and endurance. While the arts of Adar or the Dhakaani may prefer the practitioner evade attacks, Ironfist Pugilists prefer to simply take it, and retaliate in an even more powerful fashion. Ironfist places emphasis on trips, grapples, and strikes with the fists and elbows, where the natural size and reach of an Ogre offers distinct advantages. In addition, it places great emphasis on physical conditioning, utilizing brutal training routines typically involving lifting heavy weights, striking unyielding objects with fists and elbows, and running and climbing. The fact that this typically occurs in the beating heat of Droaam shows just how hard this makes Ironfist's practitioners. It is believed by the few scholars who are willing to study this tradition that Ironfist was developed originally by an Ogre-Mage, who taught it in secret to a clan of ogres enslaved by a more numerous and better-armed tribe of bugbears. Denied access to arms and armour by their masters, the ogres remained cowed until the Ogre-Mage's teachings allowed them to overcome the bugbears in surprise combat. Since then, the teachings have spread, being picked up by stronger individuals of smaller races (Orcs, Bugbears, and Gnolls especially), and among races possessing distinct advantages of their own (Shifters and their claws, or Warforged and their slam, for example). In game terms, I made a homebrew PrC called the Ironfist Pugilist a while ago. Among its class abilities were a natural armor bonus, the ability to treat certain natural weapons as if they were unarmed strikes (and thus get iterative attacks), and the ability to qualify for Improved Trip and other feats without having prerequisites.
zambuka 02-22-07, 08:17 PM	If you don't want real world references to specific martial arts you can abstract the arts down into 3 basic move groups. Defensive: These moves concentrate mostly on just not getting hit. Generally they rely on agility and dodging and maximising the distance between fighters, usually relying on kicks, pushes and trips and longer weapons, like staffs and spears. The idea is to wait out or exhaust your opponent and pick your time to strike. This favours Dexterity and Constitution. Offensive: These moves are more focused on doing as much damage as possible. Hands, feet, heads, elbows, pretty much any body part can be used with these moves and the offensive styles favour heavier weapons like swords. These moves favour Strength and Constitution. Disabling: Disabling moves are focused on immobilising the opponent in order to deliver unhindered blows. Disabling moves are very much close personal, they make heavy use of grappling, tripping and pinning and martial styles that focus on these moves favour small weapons, like daggers, over larger weaponry. This style favours Dexterity and Strength. From there we can start building up our martial arts based on the cultures and racial habits. Goblins: Goblins are small weak but quite agile. Martial arts developed for them would rely more on defensive moves folowed by a few disableing moves. I can see goblins practicing more Kung-Fu style defensive moves and stronger individuals may favour greased wrestling styles. Their styles make great use of small, light weapons that can be finnessed, rather than brute forced, into hitting their opponents. Hobgoblins: BIgger, stronger and braver than their goblin cousins, the Hobgoblins of Darguun would likely favour more aggressive and personal styles focussing on grapples and heavy punches and kicks. Their cultural heritage would favour more formalised and graceful styles similar to savate and wrestling. Heavier weaponry, like long swordsare favoured, as are shields that can be used to pin and shove opponents. Halflings: Surprisingly aggressive for their size, the halflings of Khorvaire prefer hard hitting style martial arts. Their martial styles are quite aggressive revolviong hitting as often and as quickly as possible and tripping an opponent as well as a good focus on defensive action(note that the tangat is a reach weapon designed with tripping in mind). Gnomes: Gnomish martial arts are primarily defensive focusing on disengaging from combat more than anything else. There is very little in the way of heavy offensive or disabling moves beyond trips. Their primary focus is on getting out of hand to hand reach to favour their magic and missile weaponry. Gnomish martial arts also make heavy creative use of a gnome's inate magical powers for distracting an opponent. Dwarves: Dwarves favour hard hitting aggressive styles that rely on their constitution and strength to outlast an opponent. They tend to prefer grapples and choke holds over punching and kicking moves. Dwarven martial arts save the damage dealing for weapons favouring a mix of close quarter weaponry (short swords and daggers) and heavy axes with very little in between. Elves (valenar): Elves don't seem to particualrly like coming into physical combat with those not of their race. Their martial arts styles would focus more heavily on defensive moves than anything else. The idea is to have your sword or arrows do the damage. Although they would also have a significant focus on grappling and wrestling moves and these allow for more stealthy style of combat that elves tend to favour with the added benefit of negating opponents with with their own grappling intent. Humans: Humans have their own traditional martial arts carried with them from Sarlona. Over the centuries thay have developed and changed from region to region but generally focus on a combination of heavy hitting and grappling styles focusing mostly on using the hands and arms. Good old fashioned pugalism and wrestling are favoured among the less urban areas like outlying farms and villages. More cosmopolitan and city based styles focus more on defensive and grappling with almost ritualised wrestling styles favoured. Humans don't tend to mix weaponry and unarmed combat styles. Well, that's my first take on martial arts in Eberron.
Sir Elton 02-23-07, 12:01 PM	Actually, the divisions are hard and soft. Hard martial arts those that specialize in force. Soft martial arts do not.
law 02-23-07, 01:57 PM	Sir Elton dont forget mental or training the mind thats the third part (which I would have all the psionic feats that would work fit into this one). So: Hard: Commonly based of the power attack feat. But any feat thats about attacking could fit. Soft: Commonly based of Combat Expertise. But any feat that deals with defense and grappling could also fit into this. Mind: Mental training, Iron Will, and other feats that deal with mental or psionic training could fit into this. But you could also split it into energy as in chi, ki, or chackra as a forth set this would include a some of the moves based off of stunning fist.
Sir Elton 02-23-07, 02:02 PM	Actually, the Mental Training is incorporated in both "soft" and "hard." Tai Chi is very soft, and so is Aikido. Tiger is Hard, and so is Pankration (what would you expect out of a martial art that is "all power?").
law 02-23-07, 02:09 PM	Well thats how OA divided it thats all. But given that I dont have the book on me at the moment (its at home which ill be there). But I truly would care about the over all feel of the martial art. Though I came up with one called the silver phionix (a silver flame based martial art uses stunning fist to the max). But like I said its just clasiffing what was said in OA. Which they do have a hard form, two hard/soft forms, and a soft form with mastery abilities. But you might know that already. But im just throwing down what I have thought so far. I was at one time going to make a bunch of martial arts for eberron but got kind of bord/side tracked.
Sir Elton 02-23-07, 02:13 PM	Well, OA does divide them that way. Although in the real world, they are divided between "hard" and "soft." Namely because superhuman feats of magic and psionics don't exist in our world (i.e. people don't fly under their own power) except metacreativity.
law 02-23-07, 02:20 PM	Ya but thats the context I would use for D&D styles. Since much more could be done then in real life. Break that facter a little bit and things can get real fun. Adding real stuff into the game is great but nothing like adding that extra pspice into the mix. Just we all need to know not to over do it.
Kid SixXx 02-23-07, 05:14 PM	I actually approve of law's breakdown into the OA system. Using the game terms & mechanics might help stem future meltdowns about real-world analogies destroying the game. :)
Sir Elton 02-23-07, 05:56 PM	Strangely enough, I approve of it too. I thought that Law believed that the "Hard/Soft/Mental" thing existed in the real world. :D Elton.
law 02-23-07, 06:20 PM	Never think I think that any thing I write about D&D is in the real world. Thats not that hard right? But ya just placeing all the feats in the right spot so we can say which is wich could take a while given the number of feats. Since I dont my break down up there realy would includes weapons very well so that would be number five.
Romulus LoneWolf 02-23-07, 07:48 PM	Y'know, I think an easy way to explain Martial Arts in Eberron is simply to remove and/or alter all the real-world asian references. After all, the only real difference between Eastern and Western martial arts is that Eastern martial have more "mystique" to them because of the holistic terminology connected to it. Instead of Ki strike, call it "Willpower Strike"; instead of Shuriken and Nunchaku, call them "Throwing stars" and "chain-sticks"...
Nlogue 02-23-07, 10:46 PM	Great thread, interesting posts and discussion going on! To add to it though, the idea of a strict division of martial arts into hard and soft is not really true in the real world. Many forms seek to master both hard and soft technique and combine them. Don't forget one of the main tenants of Yang Taiji: "Rou li you gang" ...roughly translated "In my softness there is steel" or "softness and steel become one." Some experts use "internal" (nei jia, or nei gong) and "external" (wai jia, or wai gong), but this can break apart pretty quickly too when you see styles such as xing yi employing both qi gong and serious external power-building training techniques too. Basically it's hard to quantify most really well-developed martial art forms. Shao-lin itself is such a mish mash of "internal" and "external" and "hard" and "soft." That being said I think its a good starting point in fantasy to characterize certain styles as being more focused on hard or soft, or internal or external. Other distinctions (again, never really that true in the real world but a good way of thinking about things): Grappling vs. Striking (of UFC fame) Northern Legs vs. Southern Fist (In Chinese martial tradition this old saying boils down to Northern styles being much more mobile, employing a lot more leaping, acrobatics, jumping, and much more emphasis on kicking , while the Southern styles focus on low rooted stances and powerful hand techniques - they were fighting in slippery rice patties and on canal boats a lot remember, so leaping around was forgone for the sake of stability). Healthy and Poisoned (some martial arts are seen not only as self-defense but as health inducing such as Taiji, others take their toll on the body to offer greater power - some of the tiger styles will literally destroy your spine, and other "harder" styles will cause all sorts of awful arthritis but afford great power as a trade-off). Don't know if any of this is useful. This thread is fantastic! Keep those ideas flowing!
Sir Elton 02-23-07, 11:20 PM	Y'know, I think an easy way to explain Martial Arts in Eberron is simply to remove and/or alter all the real-world asian references. After all, the only real difference between Eastern and Western martial arts is that Eastern martial have more "mystique" to them because of the holistic terminology connected to it. Instead of Ki strike, call it "Willpower Strike"; instead of Shuriken and Nunchaku, call them "Throwing stars" and "chain-sticks"... Precisely. Although "throwing stars" isn't appropriate. Utility knife really is.
RavenShinobi 02-23-07, 11:40 PM	Precisely. Although "throwing stars" isn't appropriate. Utility knife really is. It is very hard to translate marital arts into D&D, I have over 23 years of experience in various different arts. (hard and soft styles). That being said I still have trouble working them out in game mechanics. The best thing that I have found is in the legends of the samurai martial art system. Each style is a feat, and gives you various “maneuvers” that you can use per round based on your style. It works really well. they also have an art for Shurikens (Shurikenjutsu) which increases the range, and the amount that you can throw at once. http://rpgobjects.com/index.php?page=los
Sir Elton 02-23-07, 11:56 PM	Ah. Someone else knows my frustration. :) Raven, I am very frustrated in translating martial arts into D&D. I'm having a hard time translating special weapon arts into D&D. The best, most accepted way is "Tactical Feats" since they are made by Wizards of the Coast. Legends of the Samurai have feats that are better than "Tactical Feats" by a mile. However, people worry that they are unbalancing. Also, Wizards of the Coast has a hard time using 3rd party support. It seems that the Ideal of the Open Game License hasn't be realized ("Everyone shares graciously; everyone benefits graciously"). I don't pretend to understand why, it's just an inexplicable engima. I think the restrictions of Dragon and Dungeon Magazines have something to do with it. But I'm glad to know that someone shares my frustration. If the D&D/d20 OGL system was fully skill based (no feats) then maybe it would be easier to integrate every Martial Art into the system. It was my frustration that turned me back to the *other system.* Im still trying to figure out how a monk can know five or more martial arts systems in D&D. And he will still be able to create his own Martial Art using the various styles as an "erector set" of sorts (one of the requirements to get your 5th Dan in the USoSD system is to create your own Art style).
RavenShinobi 02-24-07, 12:18 AM	Ah. Someone else knows my frustration. :) Raven, I am very frustrated in translating martial arts into D&D. I'm having a hard time translating special weapon arts into D&D. The best, most accepted way is "Tactical Feats" since they are made by Wizards of the Coast. Legends of the Samurai have feats that are better than "Tactical Feats" by a mile. However, people worry that they are unbalancing. Also, Wizards of the Coast has a hard time using 3rd party support. It seems that the Ideal of the Open Game License hasn't be realized ("Everyone shares graciously; everyone benefits graciously"). I don't pretend to understand why, it's just an inexplicable engima. I think the restrictions of Dragon and Dungeon Magazines have something to do with it. But I'm glad to know that someone shares my frustration. If the D&D/d20 OGL system was fully skill based (no feats) then maybe it would be easier to integrate every Martial Art into the system. It was my frustration that turned me back to the *other system.* Im still trying to figure out how a monk can know five or more martial arts systems in D&D. And he will still be able to create his own Martial Art using the various styles as an "erector set" of sorts (one of the requirements to get your 5th Dan in the USoSD system is to create your own Art style). :) i hear you all to well, i will have to write more about this later, my lunch time is over.. lol (it's 2:15pm here :D )
law 02-24-07, 01:34 PM	I would still think of them as a cullection of feats that fit into the style. Given the amount out there and the fact that over time alot of them will start to look alike (since even with 50+ feats that fit into martial arts in any form over time many will start to look truly alike). I do think that something more can be used to help make them more different.
AllWillFall2Me 02-24-07, 08:49 PM	I read the thread, and thought that the idea was very commendable. However, in my mind, the execution is slightly flawed. Yes, reading your post I learned a lot about several forms of martial arts I hadn't learned about, with ideas of describing them, but really minimal effort was used in describing them in a game setting. really, the history of Kampfringen has very little in terms of usefulness in a campaign. Now, maybe this would be better accepted if a basic description of the style in combat, rather than in history, along with an extended transition piece in relating it to Eberron. My example below is a reflection of my belief that Capoiera is definitely a more Cyrean martial art than a Dhakaan. Think, in Five Nations it's stated that All Cyreans know the Tago, a dance. Nowhere in Dhakaan lore is there reference to dancing. I think an artistic culture would take greater steps to make even their fighting pleasing to the eye. Example: Capoeira http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capoeira This fighting style is best described as aggressive and lethal dancing. Its practitioners sweep their legs, roll, cart-wheel and flip across the battlefield, laying foes low with lethal grace and beauty This form of unarmed combat was developed by a forgotten Cyrean master, after watching a particularly spirited couple perform the Tago, and accidentally break a spectator's leg. Realizing that even dance could be a weapon in the right hands, the master decided to perfect a method of combat that relied on dance as its primary inspiration. His result, Capoiera, has been the death of many inexperienced fighters, who didn't realize the danger their dancing foes represented until it was too late. The Valenar have since adopted this style, after having seen its use in their raids against Cyre.
Rollinrice 03-02-07, 04:06 AM	Interesting. I like to think that each race's general tendencies show in the style of the martial art they would probably know and/or promote. Elves would have many of the more graceful styles (Crane Kung Fu), while gnomes would learn styles of misdirection and deception.(Drunken monkey.) Half-orcs would be aggresive, so I would think of Kempo for them. But this is my own perspective of the game. To each his/her own. However, all this discusion has given me the image of a warforged wrestler named Zangief, who travels the world in search of opponents. Hmmm.....Street Fighter in Eberron maybe?
Splendide 03-02-07, 06:26 AM	I actually picture gnomes having a particularly vicious martial art that isn't well publicised. When fighting is always your last resort, then there is no need for it to be pretty. They're not using it to intimidate; thats what everything else they do is for - ideally you shouldn't even see the weapon until it has been used. I'm thinking it would favour the use of concealed blades, probably something like a spike that you can leave in place once you stab and that would impede and seriously cripple. Maybe hinder movement, or cause excessive bleeding. Aiming for joints and other sensitive areas. Stat wise, the weapon would have the same stats as a punching dagger. The fighting style could just be represented by a racial feat that works like a sneak attack.