Post/Author/DateTime	Post
perringaiden 09-28-04, 10:34 PM	Given the fact that there is a much higher user uptake of magical services in Eberron, this would imply that "magic stores" are more common and low items like potions, cheap wands etc, can be readily purchased from vendors. With that in mind, I have two questions: a) How does everyone feel that the Equipment tables in the PHB should change w.r.t. price for specialty supplies like alchemical fire etc? b) How do DM's determine the availability and stock on hand for magic merchants, stores and emporiums in Eberron? Any quick tables or applications would be cool too? :D
allenchan 09-28-04, 10:42 PM	Well, in Sharn you can pretty much find everything magical. Key is finding it, however. Maybe a lot of gather information checks lol
Edymnion 09-28-04, 10:53 PM	I don't think there would be any change in the prices at all. Yes, the Supply has gone up because of all the extra people around that can make the stuff. However, thats only half the equation. The other half is Demand. There are also more people in Eberron that can use these items, so there are more people trying to buy them. Supply goes up, Demand goes up, Price remains constant.
perringaiden 09-28-04, 10:54 PM	Well, in Sharn you can pretty much find everything magical. Key is finding it, however. Maybe a lot of gather information checks lol Yep, but what happens when they end up with a 30 for finding a store that sells Wands of CLW? How much, how many? The group decided to use 5000gp they had saved, to buy wands of CLW, since there's no cleric. And when that happened I just fudged a merchant up, but I'd prefer to have something on hand when they say "So what does he have for sale?"
Solarious 09-28-04, 11:04 PM	The group decided to use 5000gp they had saved, to buy wands of CLW, since there's no cleric. And when that happened I just fudged a merchant up, but I'd prefer to have something on hand when they say "So what does he have for sale?" Everything a traditional merchant in DnD has, but the availability of high-quality items and low-scale magic items is aproximately double. Remember, Magecraft makes high quality work more accessable and available, and there are simply more spellcasters (artificers in particular) around to make low-level magic items. Emphasis on low level, because there are as many +3 Keen Vorpral Greatswords in Eberron as there are in an average DnD game, which is not many at all. But as said earlier, the base price doesn't change for items. You do have XP costs to account for, after all :)
perringaiden 09-28-04, 11:14 PM	Ok, So the answer to part a. is : No change. Keep everything the same. What about part b.? In previous games I've not used magic stores and only had the party specifically find and ask a mage to create something for them. Obviously in this environment that's not really necessary, but I don't just want to say "You can buy anything in the DMG up to price XXgp." (based on town/city demographics) How do others determine what is available at a given vendor or not?
Edymnion 09-28-04, 11:20 PM	Exact inventories of shops has always been left up to the individual DM, AFAIK. I wouldn't personally bother with trying to stat out what they do and do not have. Just let the PCs go in, and ask for something. Stop and think about how you picture the shop, and answer if they have it or not based on that. If they want lots of the item, again, just stop and think about if they'd have that or not. Yeah, just picture how you think the store should be, and then see if each request contradicts what you pictured or not. Exact details aren't really important. :)
perringaiden 09-28-04, 11:40 PM	Yeah, just picture how you think the store should be, and then see if each request contradicts what you pictured or not. Exact details aren't really important. :) Player: "I browse the shelves, what do I see?" *expectant look* That was the most common response when players have found the two magic shops I used.
Doctor X 09-29-04, 12:16 AM	Player: "I browse the shelves, what do I see?" *expectant look* That was the most common response when players have found the two magic shops I used. You're generally not going to find anything extraordinarily useful just with casual browsing. In an environment like Sharn's marketplaces, most of the good stuff would probably be buried underneath piles of worthless garbage. So if your PC's aren't looking for anything in particular, chances are they won't find anything in particular. So you can just make random useless crap up, such as: "The shelf is covered in all kinds of mostly useless junk... It looks kind of like a flea market or a yard sale. Among it you see a few sticks... but you can't tell if they're just sticks or magic wands." If the PC uses Detect Magic... oh, won't that be fun. Simply say that he detects someting magical... but in such heaping piles of junk, you can bet he'll have quite a hard time actually locating it. And when he does, you can make it something completely not worth the trouble-- maybe a wand of Acid Splash, or some other weak spell.
Gilgiga of the Hunt 09-29-04, 12:17 AM	Well I usualy just roll a bounh of random items, put those treasure charts to work, and have a few all purpose items always in stock (potions of CLW, wands of detect magic, etc). The number and quantity avalable usualy depends on the shop's size. Traveling peddler is gona have around 1d10 items +some basics. Good sized mystic shops will have more. That and you can speacl order items, but they will take time. In Sharn, use a Gather Info check for shoping times, kinda like d20 Modern.
Masterful_Norg 09-29-04, 12:54 AM	perringaiden, Ask these questions: If the players were to hold up the store, what would the CR of the encounter be? How many law enforcement officers would there be involved? How much treasure would they receive from defeating the encounter?Remember these points: No single item in a store owner's inventory should equal more than 2-5 percent of the inventory's total value, though there may be exceptions, such as expensive items on special order. Vendors without fixed locations might sell only a few items of surpassingly high value.
Marshall Stone 09-29-04, 01:04 AM	Player: "I browse the shelves, what do I see?" *expectant look* That was the most common response when players have found the two magic shops I used. Okay, then what do you say to the rogue in the party who asks what he might be able to "pick up" in the store? I kind of like Edymnion's take on it, "Yeah, just picture how you think the store should be, and then see if each request contradicts what you pictured or not. Exact details aren't really important." But some players would prefer something a little more concrete. I would suggests that it all depends on location and ... setting. In Sharn, I would imagine that thier are shops that sell magical items, perhaps associated with a Guild, Noble House, Royal House, or Dragonmarked house, etc., who help dissuade shop-lifting and provide bodygaurds. As well as provide a kind of quality control or even...standardization for lack of a better word. But say in the Eldeen Reaches one would have to find other adventurers, retired adventures, antique dealers (?) who through, tracking, Urban Tracking or Gather Information checks would, 1) Makes it so that the characters are aware that these sources exist, 2) That the sources have a magical item they might be willing to sell, and If the check is good enough, 3) what that magical item might be. Thus providing a role-play, haggle opportunity some players really like.
Neofish 09-29-04, 02:25 AM	Do you think it is justifiable to lower Graft prices (flesh grafts from the feind folio.), How about the prices for the HAlf-Golem prices? Has anyone made magic prostetics for there game yet??? I did. What would yall consider a fair market price?
MarkB 09-29-04, 03:24 AM	I wouldn't alter the prices of anything. To me, Eberron's manufacturing base for magical items isn't intended to make them more readily available, or cheaper, than the defaults presented in the DMG or other core books - instead they're intended to justify the existing default levels of availability, which other settings never really did.
Geoff Watson 09-29-04, 04:58 AM	I doubt a 'magic shop' would have that much in-stock. Most items for sale would be commissioned there, rather than pre-made, with the exception of cheap, common, items. There may be some items that had been sold to the shop, but they wouldn't be lying around, easy to steal. Probably in arcane locked magically-reinforced glass fronted cabinets. Geoff.
Argonel 09-29-04, 10:38 AM	Suddenly I am picturing a well off magical merchant attaching a small gemstone tied to an alarm spell to each valuable item. I also see them scattering these in with the random junk to trap thieves. I don't know if the spell would be on the item and go off if it was removed from the premesis or if the spell would be on the shop and trigger when the item crossed the perimeter. I'll have to stat out an item like that next time I have a DMG in my hands.
Haer'dalis 09-29-04, 10:58 AM	Suddenly I am picturing a well off magical merchant attaching a small gemstone tied to an alarm spell to each valuable item. Same idea popped into my head while I was reading this thread as well. Though it's a logical use of the spell, most magic shops may end up working like the HMV (and others) with those gates at the entrance and that is a big no no to me.
ENHenry 09-29-04, 12:04 PM	As for people browsing the magic shops, I would imagine it would be a bit different from the modern concept of "set up everything on display and let the alarms guard it." What would be on display would be trinkets, baubles, things with Nystul's magic aura on them for show (and to distract the more ignorant thieves). Think of a place like Egghead of Electronics Boutique, where they set up display boxes, but have the actual merchandise shrink-wrapped in a locked cabinet. The actual items, or their commission rates, would be on a list of prices, available to those who ask and demonstrate they have the money to pay. If you as a DM wanted to prepare, I would put a few dozen items from the minor magic items tables on the list, and a phrase "ask about our commissioned magic prices." But under no circumstances would a shopkeeper leave his most valuable things out where anyone with an invisibility oil and a dispel magic spell could snatch them.
xcorvis 09-29-04, 12:47 PM	But under no circumstances would a shopkeeper leave his most valuable things out where anyone with an invisibility oil and a dispel magic spell could snatch them. Magic shops should be like jewelry stores or gun stores. All the wands are out on display, with little cards that have info and prices. Stones of Alarm could be placed on the items, and if someone wants to look they have to get a clerk to come by and remove the stone. Or maybe the cabinet is just arcane locked and reinforced with steel bars. I also don't see magic shops having "random junk". Maybe the fantasy equivalent of a pawn shop will have a couple of magic items, but only a couple. Real magic shops will specialize too, because the people who usually make the items (magewrights) are forced to specialize. So a magic shop might acutally be a potion shop, or a wand shop, or specialize in clothing or weapons...
Argonel 09-29-04, 01:04 PM	OK Took a little time to stat out a magic shoplifting alarm. This would obviously supplement an alert shopkeep and guards to limit the dispell magic/oil of dissappearance dodge. The key point would be a wonderous item using a slightly modified Alarm spell. As I figure it that would have a base cost of approximately 3,000 GP for a continuous item with a spell level and caster level of 1 each. This item would generate a 20 foot radius and trigger an audible alarm when the specific items crossed the barrier. The second part of it is that the condition for the alarm to go off is when an item with a specific invisible arcane mark crossed the barrier the alarm would trigger. This would be most convienent if the shopkeeper can cast arcane mark, as they could remove it automatically, otherwise the shopkeeper would also have to stock up on erase scrolls to remove the mark when an item is sold.
Edymnion 09-29-04, 02:43 PM	Player: "I browse the shelves, what do I see?" *expectant look* That was the most common response when players have found the two magic shops I used."The shelves around you are filled with glass bottles, vials, and jars containing every possible kind of powder and ingrediant you could imagine. Everything from ground beetle, to colored sand, to thin tubes containing rare plant stems. Behind the counter you see several exquisit looking weapons, nearly a half dozen wands hanging vertically from the wall, and a miniature book case sitting upon a small table holding sheets of fine parchment. Several large, heavy books sit beside them, while a veritable spice rack of bottles filled with multicolored liquids decorates another table on the other side." There, you've basically said "They've got spell components, weapons, wands, scrolls, spellbooks, and potions". If the players want more specifics, just pick a magical whatever they asked about, and describe that. However, that just used up one of the potential items the shop had for sale. Of course, the shopkeep would be a Magewright or Artificer, and you can bet he's rigged the shop with all manner of magical traps. Anything worth having is behind the counter, and anyone but the artificer/magewright goes behind the counter gets smacked with a terribly nasty spell, and sets off an Alarm spell to boot. If it happens to be a relatively high level Artificer running the shop, you can bet they're going to have an Iron Defender or three in the shop, likely with many upgraded hitdice. Funnel half the profit of the shop into upgrading the Defenders, which only require gold to upgrade, not higher levels.
LordofIllusions 09-29-04, 02:45 PM	Eberron vs. D&D ? :rolleyes: I was always under the assumption that Eberron is D&D. :rolleyes: ~~~
Saurenda 09-29-04, 03:37 PM	Eberron vs. D&D ? I was always under the assumption that Eberron is D&D. ~~~ I think what was meant, and I did think that too LoI; was that avalibilty of magical items and merchandise in Eberron as the campaign setting as opposed to regular Dnd. Really I see no difference in metropolisis like Sharn, magical items can be purchased through Cannith or a The Rat's Market to get mostly anything. Places like Wroat which are slightly more limited than Sharn, or lower populated civilized places like a village or city will not have the vastness of selection. Quite frankly though nearly every place in civilization has dragonmarked services availible and everbright lanterns. They are the most commonly availible items and services which anyone with the money can purchase. It comes down to people not being able to afford much of anything. There is a supply of magical items which is not avilible to the public and services. That does not mean they are not avialible to the pcs. Money is a big factor in making something availible or not. Many people change thier tune as well when money is involved, and that is also part of the pulp noir theme as informants and runners will want to be paid something for themselves in return for services, magical or mundane. I treat things as generally the same for a standard Dnd setting, though specialty stores can exsist within Sharn, such as a store located in the masons tower that sells nothing but wands. Or a Tailor that specializes in evening wear.
malkav138 09-30-04, 10:20 AM	I envision Eberron as a place that has a great amount of minor magical items for sale. I typically will roll randomly to determine what is available in any given town. But I also see it as a place where very powerful magical items are NOT for sale, but are rather found in ancient places. And if powerful items do exsist within the limits of any city , I could see the dragonmarked houses monopolizing the use of them. Just my take, but I make a table before my Pc's get to any city. I roll randomly to determine how many of any given type of item will be available, and then roll the items randomly. I then adjust the prices based on how much I want or do not want the party to possess a given item, and its rarity. Once I have a list of available items I then distribute them among the merchants as I see fit. I refresh the lists every so often. Usually I refresh cites every 1 campaign month and the rural areas every three months or so (I do this between sessions). I give potions and some of the rarer nonmagical Items a similar treatment. I give a certain number of these items available during a given timespan to merchants, and refresh them every so often. You can create wonderful adventures just out of supply runs. I get very particular about mmy economy, and I let the players influence it. For example if the players are adventuring from on base city, and they do jobs for the merchants(like guarding caravans, find thieves and that sort of thing) then I will let the town get some economic prosperity. The economy and the items available are just another way to get your players motivated to interact with the world. And if your players feel like their adventures are actually affecting the campaign world, they typically will take notice and it leads to positive gaming. Bah.
WotC_Doog 09-30-04, 10:42 AM	Yep, but what happens when they end up with a 30 for finding a store that sells Wands of CLW? How much, how many?They'd probably manage to find a store that had a couple on hand -- no more than 2, I'd say. Then the store could back-order more for them. Maybe you could even turn it into a mini-adventure: the magic shop-owner wants the PCs to go pick him up some of the ingredients he'll need for the wands to be created, and he'll knock 10% off the price of 5 more wands. Hmm, an interesting trade-off... how dangerous a trip would you be willing to undertake, if you were getting a wand of CLW in return? :D The group decided to use 5000gp they had saved, to buy wands of CLW, since there's no cleric. And when that happened I just fudged a merchant up, but I'd prefer to have something on hand when they say "So what does he have for sale?"Others have provided great tips here in this thread: mostly pretty junk, some high-quality stuff rolled off the random tables in the DMG, and some security measures. I'd add in a crazy item too, something really random like a green stone, rather cheap, that radiates magic but has no label. Players love weird surprises like that, and it can add to roleplaying later when they buy it, get it ID'ed and find out it's a stone of lizard attracting. Will they feel ripped off that they spent 750gp on a stone of lizard attracting? No, they'll use it in a way you never saw coming to defeat the bad guy, and hilarity will ensue.
Just another user 09-30-04, 11:21 AM	I don't think there would be any change in the prices at all. Yes, the Supply has gone up because of all the extra people around that can make the stuff. However, thats only half the equation. The other half is Demand. There are also more people in Eberron that can use these items, so there are more people trying to buy them. Supply goes up, Demand goes up, Price remains constant. and supply is also limited because you need dragonshards to build magical items, there is always a limit to the number of availlable magical items, that stop the price from going too low, no matter how many artificers there are around.
Just another user 09-30-04, 11:37 AM	Ok, How do others determine what is available at a given vendor or not? Use common sense. The same common sense that you would use if your characters goes to a smith and ask to buy normal weapons and armor. Personally I'd say items with spells of 1st-3rd level are availlable in a "reasonable" number, around 20, more or less (depends on the store,where it is, etc, etc), of course it they buy them all they empty the store inventory of that item, The seller could even not like that, refues to sell all item or insist for some extra price, but I digress) items with 4-6 level spell could be availlabe in one digit quantity if the shop is important (a Cannith house branch in a major city, for example) else it could be ordered. Items with 7-9 level spells are never found in a simple store, the player must search for them, asking around for them and waiting for someone to answer, both to build one or to find someone that have one and is willing to sell, every one of this items is worth a quest (even if minor) all by itself. All IMO.