Merging with the Flame [Archive] - Wizards Community

Merging with the Flame [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
psuedopod
08-22-04, 07:13 PM In my Eberron campaign, I've ruled that clerics of the Silver Flame do indeed merge with the Flame upon death. However, this leads to some problems with resurrection - and I have a Silver Flame cleric in my party, and I run tough combats.

Presumably, resurrected normal people are glad to come back from where they were. But how would someone merged with the Flame react (i.e. would they resent being brought back)? Would you think that they would simply forget, or still prefer to be back? Or do I have to do a musical campaign session and a series of really, really angsty plot arcs :-)?
Gurv
08-22-04, 08:26 PM In most cases, when a soul is in Dolurrh, the chance to return to life should look like an excellent choice. If the afterlife is pleasing, it does become a different situation.

However, in the normal cosmology of D&D, souls travel to places they are most compatable with after their death. And yet they return when called by these spells. Why?

IMC, when a character who is especially pious is raised, I ask them why they are returning. What is it that they think is important enough to come back for? They need a good reason not to remain in the lands of the dead (or else they're not roleplaying properly and that is another issue entirely). Good reasons include unfinished business, being needed for some reason, and many other things.

So, I would say that clerics of the Silver Flame who merge with the Flame might be willing to return, IF they have a reason. Otherwise, why bother? Keep in mind that the Flame itself might offer a reason, knowing things that the character does not know about his/her role in the shape of the future.

Personally, I like the standard Eberron trip to Dolurrh. Leaves plenty of reason to try and spend a little more time in life. Plus, having mortal merge with the Flame raises a lot of questions that I find to be part of the faith's fun. The actual alignement of the Flame (is there still a demon in there which might have a corrupting influence?) and its relationship to clerics who are not of that alignment causes a lot of the grey areas. Evil clerics of the Flame have a strong arguement when faced by the good: if the Flame didn't approve what I do, then it wouldn't grant me power.

Before you change how things work in the cosmology, you need to decide why those changes are there and what other repercussions they may have on things. Then you will be able to figure out the little details (like whether the dead would want to return).

Gurv
"The greatest harm can result from the best of intentions."
-Wizard's Second Rule
psuedopod
08-22-04, 08:32 PM Which raises an interesting idea: what if the demon inside the Flame corrupts those who merge with in, so that upon being raised, there is evil in them...
Ch@pel
08-22-04, 09:43 PM If you're thinking about making some rules about the demon merged with the Flame, one cool idea could be to use the rules for possession in the CSB. Like if they come back from the dead, they have to make a save or the demon is possessing them. Keep in mind, they may not KNOW the demon is possessing them, until it decides the time is right to strike. Same thing goes for holy spirits; they may end up channeling a celestial outsider.
Darkest90
08-22-04, 09:52 PM I do something quite the same in my campaign, pseudopod. While I do not have a PC affiliated to the Silver Flame, they have met NPCs who are.

In my opinion, those that return from the Silver Flame are filled with a divine purpose to accomplish some quest, and they once they are done they wish to return to the Silver Flame. I would also rule that one must journey to Flamekeep to confront the Silver Flame to ressurect someone out of it.

This journey could include PCs waiting for the Church of the Silver Flame to give them admittance to consult the Flame, or maybe the characters have to beg the Silver Flame for the soul of their lost comrade. It should be an adventure all in its own to recover a fallen adventurer.

One who comes out of the Silver Flame might come without a purpose. They might feel rejected from the Silver Flame, or maybe they weren't ready to be exalted into It, or they might have doubts that their soul really belongs in the Silver Flame.

Ugh... they should include 'philosophical' into the list of adjectives describing Eberron.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
psuedopod 08-22-04, 07:13 PM	In my Eberron campaign, I've ruled that clerics of the Silver Flame do indeed merge with the Flame upon death. However, this leads to some problems with resurrection - and I have a Silver Flame cleric in my party, and I run tough combats. Presumably, resurrected normal people are glad to come back from where they were. But how would someone merged with the Flame react (i.e. would they resent being brought back)? Would you think that they would simply forget, or still prefer to be back? Or do I have to do a musical campaign session and a series of really, really angsty plot arcs :-)?
Gurv 08-22-04, 08:26 PM	In most cases, when a soul is in Dolurrh, the chance to return to life should look like an excellent choice. If the afterlife is pleasing, it does become a different situation. However, in the normal cosmology of D&D, souls travel to places they are most compatable with after their death. And yet they return when called by these spells. Why? IMC, when a character who is especially pious is raised, I ask them why they are returning. What is it that they think is important enough to come back for? They need a good reason not to remain in the lands of the dead (or else they're not roleplaying properly and that is another issue entirely). Good reasons include unfinished business, being needed for some reason, and many other things. So, I would say that clerics of the Silver Flame who merge with the Flame might be willing to return, IF they have a reason. Otherwise, why bother? Keep in mind that the Flame itself might offer a reason, knowing things that the character does not know about his/her role in the shape of the future. Personally, I like the standard Eberron trip to Dolurrh. Leaves plenty of reason to try and spend a little more time in life. Plus, having mortal merge with the Flame raises a lot of questions that I find to be part of the faith's fun. The actual alignement of the Flame (is there still a demon in there which might have a corrupting influence?) and its relationship to clerics who are not of that alignment causes a lot of the grey areas. Evil clerics of the Flame have a strong arguement when faced by the good: if the Flame didn't approve what I do, then it wouldn't grant me power. Before you change how things work in the cosmology, you need to decide why those changes are there and what other repercussions they may have on things. Then you will be able to figure out the little details (like whether the dead would want to return). Gurv "The greatest harm can result from the best of intentions." -Wizard's Second Rule
psuedopod 08-22-04, 08:32 PM	Which raises an interesting idea: what if the demon inside the Flame corrupts those who merge with in, so that upon being raised, there is evil in them...
Ch@pel 08-22-04, 09:43 PM	If you're thinking about making some rules about the demon merged with the Flame, one cool idea could be to use the rules for possession in the CSB. Like if they come back from the dead, they have to make a save or the demon is possessing them. Keep in mind, they may not KNOW the demon is possessing them, until it decides the time is right to strike. Same thing goes for holy spirits; they may end up channeling a celestial outsider.
Darkest90 08-22-04, 09:52 PM	I do something quite the same in my campaign, pseudopod. While I do not have a PC affiliated to the Silver Flame, they have met NPCs who are. In my opinion, those that return from the Silver Flame are filled with a divine purpose to accomplish some quest, and they once they are done they wish to return to the Silver Flame. I would also rule that one must journey to Flamekeep to confront the Silver Flame to ressurect someone out of it. This journey could include PCs waiting for the Church of the Silver Flame to give them admittance to consult the Flame, or maybe the characters have to beg the Silver Flame for the soul of their lost comrade. It should be an adventure all in its own to recover a fallen adventurer. One who comes out of the Silver Flame might come without a purpose. They might feel rejected from the Silver Flame, or maybe they weren't ready to be exalted into It, or they might have doubts that their soul really belongs in the Silver Flame. Ugh... they should include 'philosophical' into the list of adjectives describing Eberron.