Mind Seed and Quori [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mind Seed and Quori [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Streamweaver
07-13-05, 08:35 AM Posted this on the AKB thread but thought there could be some insight from the community as well on the issue.

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I'm a bit confused on the details of Quori using Mind Seed.

Basically Dreaming Dark agent is a Quori spirit using some form of posession to take over a host and presumably they stay a possessing entitiy with the ability to leave the host and all that.

So I'm confused as to what actually happens when they use Mind Seed on a host. Does this create a Qouri personality permanantly bound to a humanoid body or does it create another posessing spirit inside that body that can leave or otherwise operate like any other posessing Quori spirit? If that latter is this really a mind speed? Is'n't it more like some kind of spirit cloning spell instead and if they can leave what happens to the original personality?
Aloïsius
07-13-05, 08:51 AM BTW, did someone else think that "mind seed" is one of the most evil power of the XPH, and should have that descriptor ? As far as I know, the spirit of the victim is definitively destroyed.
drunkenewok
07-13-05, 09:12 AM BTW, did someone else think that "mind seed" is one of the most evil power of the XPH, and should have that descriptor ? As far as I know, the spirit of the victim is definitively destroyed.

It is evil, and it does have the descriptor. (SRD Reference (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSeed.htm))

As for the quori using mind seed, the way I'm running it is that the core Quori spirit is not duplicated, but that the "joint" mind of the Quori + vessel is copied. As such, they have the same general goals, but you can't copy the Quori's spirit, and thus there is still only one primary vessel (for Dal Quor Quori) and the rare evil kalashtar telepath can't extend his spirit-line by mind-seeding everyone in sight. Basically, this means that the victim of the mind seed has all the mental stats and class levels of the manifester, while retaining it's own racial stats. (ie, no Inspired psi-like abilities, Kalashtar bonus PPs or skill bonuses)

I'm playing this way mainly because I'm running a Dreaming Dark heavy campaign, with a high-level telepath BBEG who uses mind seed frequently to create pliable puppets throughout Sharn. The players are facing the dilemma of not being able to trust anyone, because anyone could be a Dreaming Dark spy. If the full spirit carried over, the PCs would have been seriously screwed many times over.

That said, the idea of a kalashtar so desperate to extend his spirit-line (to prevent extinction and eventual rebirth on Dal Quor, in the hands of the Dreaming Dark) is a really intriguing story line. Is it right to do unspeakable evil in the name of good? Does that make you good or evil? Great questions to put to the players...

I'd recommend making the ruling as it best fits the story, in the same way the a DM can decide his own way of dealing with what created the Mournland. If you absolutely have to make a decision (and don't have a story in mind to help with that), I recommend my ruling, cause the Dreaming Dark are FAR more likely to use the power, and having hundreds of mind seed-ed uber puppets running around could get crazy. (Of course, you might want that... :)
MysticTheurge
07-13-05, 09:20 AM That said, the idea of a kalashtar so desperate to extend his spirit-line (to prevent extinction and eventual rebirth on Dal Quor, in the hands of the Dreaming Dark) is a really intriguing story line. Is it right to do unspeakable evil in the name of good? Does that make you good or evil? Great questions to put to the players...

You could always say it works differently for Inspired and Kalashtar.
a_psh
07-13-05, 09:21 AM None of the above, I think.

Rather (and this is just opinion, mostly), the vessel's personality is the one being imprinted (it is the vessel that has this power, after all). The quori are pretty good at imprinting themselves on their vessels, however, so the two do sort of think alike. Only vessels utterly twisted by and loyal to the quori would ever be used for such deception, I believe (you also need a lot of raw power in the vessel's mind, of course).
Streamweaver
07-13-05, 09:51 AM As for the quori using mind seed, the way I'm running it is that the core Quori spirit is not duplicated, but that the "joint" mind of the Quori + vessel is copied.

I may be missunderstanding how it works but isn't the Inspired and Dreaming Dark actual take overs of an individual and hot a joint effort? Even if it is joint though, doesn't that create problems since it's the Quori manifesting the psi ability not the host. That would be the equivalent of duplicating someone elses mind with Mind Seed.

Obviously this isn't really something that will come into play often but I'm just wondering how it works in theory and to remain consistant with the rules.
Streamweaver
07-13-05, 09:58 AM Another question comes to mind if what is reproduced with Mind Seed is only the "joint" version then can the Quori part of the reproduced individual travel to Dal Qour to plan, or is it basically subject to the rules as any other Humanoid?
Hair Wax
07-13-05, 10:19 AM None of the above, I think.

Rather (and this is just opinion, mostly), the vessel's personality is the one being imprinted (it is the vessel that has this power, after all).

That's how I've read it as well, Tirashana is a 17th level (?) Psion as an empty vessel, I doubt she even get's used as a vessel anymore as she's probably quite old to be so pwerful and we know the Quori are vain. However after years ofbeing possessed she know thinks like a Quori so can be trusted to make mind seeds of herself.
Gurv
07-13-05, 10:43 AM I may be missunderstanding how it works but isn't the Inspired and Dreaming Dark actual take overs of an individual and hot a joint effort? Even if it is joint though, doesn't that create problems since it's the Quori manifesting the psi ability not the host. That would be the equivalent of duplicating someone elses mind with Mind Seed.

Obviously this isn't really something that will come into play often but I'm just wondering how it works in theory and to remain consistant with the rules.
I am really looking forward to Keith answering this. Myself, I'm pretty sure that when a quori possesses someone, it really is a take-over. But since they get access to all of the host's knowledge, skills, and abilities, there is a type of merging going on. This impacts the host more than the quori, as the quori is not the one being overwhelmed by the connection. Keith has said in the past that frequently used hosts start to lose their individuality. It seems to me that during the possession, they actually think what the quori thinks, and thus their mindset is reformed into a lesser copy of it. In a way, every quori is performing a lesser form of mind seed. If a host has little time to develop its own perspective and mindset, that limited time is easily ignored in the intense moments of possession.

So most hosts are pretty much brainwashed into having the same personality as the quori that possesses it. When an actual mind seed is manifested by such a host, the result is a copy of that brainwashed host.

All of this is a little different in the case of a host who hasn't had as much exposure to the quori spirit. But then again, such a host is unlikely to be capable of using mind seed in the first place. Such a host would be the favored one, not an ignored one.

Another question comes to mind if what is reproduced with Mind Seed is only the "joint" version then can the Quori part of the reproduced individual travel to Dal Qour to plan, or is it basically subject to the rules as any other Humanoid?
I would imagine that it would be subject to the same rules as any other humanoid. But that isn't so bad either; as long as all the agents make it to Dal Quor eventually, reports can be made.

Keep in mind that one of the major benefits of using mind seed is that those affected by it become willing to act as hosts for the quori spirit. They can only possess willing human hosts, and mind seed is a great way to make someone willing.
drunkenewok
07-13-05, 11:36 AM First, according to the existing material on the Inspired, they are willing and even eager subjects of Quori possession, and Keith and the ECS have both stated that empty vessels yearn to be "completed" by the possession. And up until very recently (read: the start of whatever campaign you are in), the Quori have required a willing vessel, and can't possess unwilling vessels. (Though individual DMs can change this as necessary for their story-lines)

In another post on the AKB thread, Keith stated that over the course of being possessed by a Quori, the empty vessel's thought patterns slowly merge with the Quori's, and thus by the time an Inspired is capable of manifesting mind seed (L15), those thoughts should be pretty much identical. This is my understanding of the "joint" mind I referred to above, in that the Quori itself is not transferred, but a large portion of it's thoughts and ideas have overwritten those of the vessel, and that copy has been made to the mind seed target.

As for Tirashana being a discarded vessel, I see your point, but I would think that having a greater vessel would be more important to a scheming Quori than a new pretty one, and given that Tirashana is a L17 psion (telepath), she would have access to all sorts of ways to keep her appearance youthful and gorgeous. True Mind Switch would work well, moving both the powerful manifester and the Quori soul into a new youthful vessel. Or you could just use the various anti-aging schemes used by D&D players over the past thirty-odd years. Heck, she could theoretically even be one of the mind seeded targets, having gained several levels of experience and then having the Quori spirit possess the new host.

Vanity is a great flaw for Quori to have, so you can pit these immortal adversaries against lower-level PCs, but for the really devious and manipulating Quori (eg the Kalaraq from Dragon Mag) are more likely to retain the higher powered vessels. At least I'd think so, since realizing your plans to take over the world would be more important than seeing a wrinkle-free face in the mirror. (And as stated above, they could have both the power and youth)

My reasoning is basically that the Quori spirit of an Inspired isn't copied by any of the telepathy powers. Thus the mind seeds don't have a spirit that can travel to Dal Quor for the night to plan, or psi-like powers, or any of the other fringe benefits provided by actual possession.

You could always say it works differently for Inspired and Kalashtar.

Now that you mention it, I probably will. :)
Streamweaver
07-13-05, 12:08 PM Interesting reply from Keith in this question in the AKB thread. In the interest of keeping that thread clear of discussion as requested I'm pasting that reply and commenting further.

It overwrites the personality of the victim with the personality of the quori. The victim is not a quori, possesses none of the psi-like abilities or other gifts quori possession bestows, but has the personality of the quori, along with the overwhelming allegiance to the Dreaming Dark that comes with it. The personality of the victim is lost, though as noted in an earlier message I like the idea that the character can make some sort of check to try to dredge up memories from the victim's mind.

So this is very interesting. The victim is basically racially a human with a Quori personality. It seems like it would differ from Empty Vessels and such because it's not just a transformed persality, it's an actual Quori personality that now has to live life as a human.

Roleplaying wise this opens some very interesting possibilities. In my opinion this would have to be a special kind hell for the new Seeded Persona. You would basically be an outsider imprisoned in a human body, never able to return to your plane of origin. I have to wonder if the new personalities would resent this? Would they be a bit less than happy little co-conspiritors since they are their own person? Would they become less Qouri and more Human over time and what kind of problems would this cause? Is there a problem with Seeded allies "going over the wall" as it were? It really opens up some interesting ideas for incorporating into a game.

Thoughts? Does this inspire (pun intended) you to specific thoughts as well?
Streamweaver
07-13-05, 12:12 PM More thoughts...

What happens when they have offspring? Are these Quori minded humans as well by birth or just by the way they are raised? Would this produce a Kalishtar-eque Inspired?

After a time you would have a pool of these Quori minded beings on Khorvair, but would they start to see themselves as a seperate race? Would they start to covet Khorvair for themselves instead of giving it over to a Quori invasion? In other words are they setting themselves up for a War of Independence?
Streamweaver
07-13-05, 12:22 PM Yet more thoughts.

The Quori seem to run their conspiracy by heading back to Dal Quor during dream time where time passes faster than in Khorvaire. However these Mind Seeded personalities are denied that ability to communicate that way with other Quori and they don't have the massive advantage of the time difference of Dal Qour to scheme and plan. I would think this would be a very big weakness for the Dreaming Dark and probably make them reluctant to aquire agents this way.
BuddyL33
07-13-05, 12:30 PM Interesting reply from Keith in this question in the AKB thread. In the interest of keeping that thread clear of discussion as requested I'm pasting that reply and commenting further.

So this is very interesting. The victim is basically racially a human with a Quori personality. It seems like it would differ from Empty Vessels and such because it's not just a transformed persality, it's an actual Quori personality that now has to live life as a human.

Roleplaying wise this opens some very interesting possibilities. In my opinion this would have to be a special kind hell for the new Seeded Persona. You would basically be an outsider imprisoned in a human body, never able to return to your plane of origin. I have to wonder if the new personalities would resent this? Would they be a bit less than happy little co-conspiritors since they are their own person? Would they become less Qouri and more Human over time and what kind of problems would this cause? Is there a problem with Seeded allies "going over the wall" as it were? It really opens up some interesting ideas for incorporating into a game.

Thoughts? Does this inspire (pun intended) you to specific thoughts as well?

Well to my understanding it isn't trapped per se. It can visit Dal Quor any time the subject dreams. So basically every night it travels back to Dal Quor to report, scheme, plot, etc.
Streamweaver
07-13-05, 12:36 PM Well to my understanding it isn't trapped per se. It can visit Dal Quor any time the subject dreams. So basically every night it travels back to Dal Quor to report, scheme, plot, etc.

Why? For all intents and purposes, this is a human being. Humans don't have the ability to do this so why would the seeded individual?
BuddyL33
07-13-05, 12:42 PM Why? For all intents and purposes, this is a human being. Humans don't have the ability to do this so why would the seeded individual?

The human doesn't travel back, the Quori Spirit does. In RoE it talks about several Quori from all over the world being able to get together during dreams in Dal Quor and meet and plot. Making them extremely dangerous, because they didn't have to sneak out or go anywhere to meet and geography wasn't an issue.
Streamweaver
07-13-05, 01:11 PM Nevermind Keith addressed this in the AKB thread with "everyone travels to Dal Quor when they dream". I didn't think this automatically assumed the seeded Quori could behave differently than a normal human could there.
Psymnotica
07-13-05, 01:48 PM Why? For all intents and purposes, this is a human being. Humans don't have the ability to do this so why would the seeded individual?

Actually, they do have the ability to return to Dal Quor. To quote from the ECS:

"When mortals dream, they psychically project their minds to Dal Quor, the plane where dreams play out. Dal Quor is ringed with dreamscapes - small, temporary envelopes of pseudoreality where dreamers live their dreams for a short time. Within the ring, however, exists an entirely different world."

So, a person who has been mind seeded can travel to Dal Quor every night. But only to a dreamscape in the ring surrounding the Quori cities. If they were to report to their Quori masters through Dal Quor, then the Quori would have to go to them in the dreamscape to find out whatever information was to be relayed.

What happens when they have offspring? Are these Quori minded humans as well by birth or just by the way they are raised? Would this produce a Kalishtar-eque Inspired?

From my understanding of it, neither. Mind seed doesn't pass down through genetics. And as for the the Kalashtar shared spirit, that is a different technique used than the Quori possession, even though they do have similar roots. It was the renegade Quori who accidentally showed the true Quori the way back to the Material Realm.
BuddyL33
07-13-05, 09:45 PM I am trying to understand some things and this is what I get. Some may be right some may be incorrect.

1st, a single Quori spirit can inhabit many hosts.

Question: If you destory the host, what happens to the Quori spirit or portion of that spirit that was inside the host? I am assuming it returns to Dal Quor so it can inhabit a new host. Thus the Quori spirit lives on personality and all.

If you go to Dal Quor you can combat the Quori spirit itself. If you destroy it the personality of the spirit is also destroyed, however, the spirit returns to the center of Dal Quor, so that it can essentially can be reborn. There for the number of Quori never diminishes but you can get rid of some troublesome ones.

Question: How do you get to Dal Quor to fight them. I know you can dream, but is there any other way?

One thing I love about the Quori/Inspired is their ability to spy. They can essentially be everywhere at once. When their hosts go to sleep they can report in. Time runs differently in Dal Quor. I mean the possibilities are endless!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Streamweaver 07-13-05, 08:35 AM	Posted this on the AKB thread but thought there could be some insight from the community as well on the issue. --------------------------------------------------------- I'm a bit confused on the details of Quori using Mind Seed. Basically Dreaming Dark agent is a Quori spirit using some form of posession to take over a host and presumably they stay a possessing entitiy with the ability to leave the host and all that. So I'm confused as to what actually happens when they use Mind Seed on a host. Does this create a Qouri personality permanantly bound to a humanoid body or does it create another posessing spirit inside that body that can leave or otherwise operate like any other posessing Quori spirit? If that latter is this really a mind speed? Is'n't it more like some kind of spirit cloning spell instead and if they can leave what happens to the original personality?
Aloïsius 07-13-05, 08:51 AM	BTW, did someone else think that "mind seed" is one of the most evil power of the XPH, and should have that descriptor ? As far as I know, the spirit of the victim is definitively destroyed.
drunkenewok 07-13-05, 09:12 AM	BTW, did someone else think that "mind seed" is one of the most evil power of the XPH, and should have that descriptor ? As far as I know, the spirit of the victim is definitively destroyed. It is evil, and it does have the descriptor. (SRD Reference (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSeed.htm)) As for the quori using mind seed, the way I'm running it is that the core Quori spirit is not duplicated, but that the "joint" mind of the Quori + vessel is copied. As such, they have the same general goals, but you can't copy the Quori's spirit, and thus there is still only one primary vessel (for Dal Quor Quori) and the rare evil kalashtar telepath can't extend his spirit-line by mind-seeding everyone in sight. Basically, this means that the victim of the mind seed has all the mental stats and class levels of the manifester, while retaining it's own racial stats. (ie, no Inspired psi-like abilities, Kalashtar bonus PPs or skill bonuses) I'm playing this way mainly because I'm running a Dreaming Dark heavy campaign, with a high-level telepath BBEG who uses mind seed frequently to create pliable puppets throughout Sharn. The players are facing the dilemma of not being able to trust anyone, because anyone could be a Dreaming Dark spy. If the full spirit carried over, the PCs would have been seriously screwed many times over. That said, the idea of a kalashtar so desperate to extend his spirit-line (to prevent extinction and eventual rebirth on Dal Quor, in the hands of the Dreaming Dark) is a really intriguing story line. Is it right to do unspeakable evil in the name of good? Does that make you good or evil? Great questions to put to the players... I'd recommend making the ruling as it best fits the story, in the same way the a DM can decide his own way of dealing with what created the Mournland. If you absolutely have to make a decision (and don't have a story in mind to help with that), I recommend my ruling, cause the Dreaming Dark are FAR more likely to use the power, and having hundreds of mind seed-ed uber puppets running around could get crazy. (Of course, you might want that... :)
MysticTheurge 07-13-05, 09:20 AM	That said, the idea of a kalashtar so desperate to extend his spirit-line (to prevent extinction and eventual rebirth on Dal Quor, in the hands of the Dreaming Dark) is a really intriguing story line. Is it right to do unspeakable evil in the name of good? Does that make you good or evil? Great questions to put to the players... You could always say it works differently for Inspired and Kalashtar.
a_psh 07-13-05, 09:21 AM	None of the above, I think. Rather (and this is just opinion, mostly), the vessel's personality is the one being imprinted (it is the vessel that has this power, after all). The quori are pretty good at imprinting themselves on their vessels, however, so the two do sort of think alike. Only vessels utterly twisted by and loyal to the quori would ever be used for such deception, I believe (you also need a lot of raw power in the vessel's mind, of course).
Streamweaver 07-13-05, 09:51 AM	As for the quori using mind seed, the way I'm running it is that the core Quori spirit is not duplicated, but that the "joint" mind of the Quori + vessel is copied. I may be missunderstanding how it works but isn't the Inspired and Dreaming Dark actual take overs of an individual and hot a joint effort? Even if it is joint though, doesn't that create problems since it's the Quori manifesting the psi ability not the host. That would be the equivalent of duplicating someone elses mind with Mind Seed. Obviously this isn't really something that will come into play often but I'm just wondering how it works in theory and to remain consistant with the rules.
Streamweaver 07-13-05, 09:58 AM	Another question comes to mind if what is reproduced with Mind Seed is only the "joint" version then can the Quori part of the reproduced individual travel to Dal Qour to plan, or is it basically subject to the rules as any other Humanoid?
Hair Wax 07-13-05, 10:19 AM	None of the above, I think. Rather (and this is just opinion, mostly), the vessel's personality is the one being imprinted (it is the vessel that has this power, after all). That's how I've read it as well, Tirashana is a 17th level (?) Psion as an empty vessel, I doubt she even get's used as a vessel anymore as she's probably quite old to be so pwerful and we know the Quori are vain. However after years ofbeing possessed she know thinks like a Quori so can be trusted to make mind seeds of herself.
Gurv 07-13-05, 10:43 AM	I may be missunderstanding how it works but isn't the Inspired and Dreaming Dark actual take overs of an individual and hot a joint effort? Even if it is joint though, doesn't that create problems since it's the Quori manifesting the psi ability not the host. That would be the equivalent of duplicating someone elses mind with Mind Seed. Obviously this isn't really something that will come into play often but I'm just wondering how it works in theory and to remain consistant with the rules. I am really looking forward to Keith answering this. Myself, I'm pretty sure that when a quori possesses someone, it really is a take-over. But since they get access to all of the host's knowledge, skills, and abilities, there is a type of merging going on. This impacts the host more than the quori, as the quori is not the one being overwhelmed by the connection. Keith has said in the past that frequently used hosts start to lose their individuality. It seems to me that during the possession, they actually think what the quori thinks, and thus their mindset is reformed into a lesser copy of it. In a way, every quori is performing a lesser form of mind seed. If a host has little time to develop its own perspective and mindset, that limited time is easily ignored in the intense moments of possession. So most hosts are pretty much brainwashed into having the same personality as the quori that possesses it. When an actual mind seed is manifested by such a host, the result is a copy of that brainwashed host. All of this is a little different in the case of a host who hasn't had as much exposure to the quori spirit. But then again, such a host is unlikely to be capable of using mind seed in the first place. Such a host would be the favored one, not an ignored one. Another question comes to mind if what is reproduced with Mind Seed is only the "joint" version then can the Quori part of the reproduced individual travel to Dal Qour to plan, or is it basically subject to the rules as any other Humanoid? I would imagine that it would be subject to the same rules as any other humanoid. But that isn't so bad either; as long as all the agents make it to Dal Quor eventually, reports can be made. Keep in mind that one of the major benefits of using mind seed is that those affected by it become willing to act as hosts for the quori spirit. They can only possess willing human hosts, and mind seed is a great way to make someone willing.
drunkenewok 07-13-05, 11:36 AM	First, according to the existing material on the Inspired, they are willing and even eager subjects of Quori possession, and Keith and the ECS have both stated that empty vessels yearn to be "completed" by the possession. And up until very recently (read: the start of whatever campaign you are in), the Quori have required a willing vessel, and can't possess unwilling vessels. (Though individual DMs can change this as necessary for their story-lines) In another post on the AKB thread, Keith stated that over the course of being possessed by a Quori, the empty vessel's thought patterns slowly merge with the Quori's, and thus by the time an Inspired is capable of manifesting mind seed (L15), those thoughts should be pretty much identical. This is my understanding of the "joint" mind I referred to above, in that the Quori itself is not transferred, but a large portion of it's thoughts and ideas have overwritten those of the vessel, and that copy has been made to the mind seed target. As for Tirashana being a discarded vessel, I see your point, but I would think that having a greater vessel would be more important to a scheming Quori than a new pretty one, and given that Tirashana is a L17 psion (telepath), she would have access to all sorts of ways to keep her appearance youthful and gorgeous. True Mind Switch would work well, moving both the powerful manifester and the Quori soul into a new youthful vessel. Or you could just use the various anti-aging schemes used by D&D players over the past thirty-odd years. Heck, she could theoretically even be one of the mind seeded targets, having gained several levels of experience and then having the Quori spirit possess the new host. Vanity is a great flaw for Quori to have, so you can pit these immortal adversaries against lower-level PCs, but for the really devious and manipulating Quori (eg the Kalaraq from Dragon Mag) are more likely to retain the higher powered vessels. At least I'd think so, since realizing your plans to take over the world would be more important than seeing a wrinkle-free face in the mirror. (And as stated above, they could have both the power and youth) My reasoning is basically that the Quori spirit of an Inspired isn't copied by any of the telepathy powers. Thus the mind seeds don't have a spirit that can travel to Dal Quor for the night to plan, or psi-like powers, or any of the other fringe benefits provided by actual possession. You could always say it works differently for Inspired and Kalashtar. Now that you mention it, I probably will. :)
Streamweaver 07-13-05, 12:08 PM	Interesting reply from Keith in this question in the AKB thread. In the interest of keeping that thread clear of discussion as requested I'm pasting that reply and commenting further. It overwrites the personality of the victim with the personality of the quori. The victim is not a quori, possesses none of the psi-like abilities or other gifts quori possession bestows, but has the personality of the quori, along with the overwhelming allegiance to the Dreaming Dark that comes with it. The personality of the victim is lost, though as noted in an earlier message I like the idea that the character can make some sort of check to try to dredge up memories from the victim's mind. So this is very interesting. The victim is basically racially a human with a Quori personality. It seems like it would differ from Empty Vessels and such because it's not just a transformed persality, it's an actual Quori personality that now has to live life as a human. Roleplaying wise this opens some very interesting possibilities. In my opinion this would have to be a special kind hell for the new Seeded Persona. You would basically be an outsider imprisoned in a human body, never able to return to your plane of origin. I have to wonder if the new personalities would resent this? Would they be a bit less than happy little co-conspiritors since they are their own person? Would they become less Qouri and more Human over time and what kind of problems would this cause? Is there a problem with Seeded allies "going over the wall" as it were? It really opens up some interesting ideas for incorporating into a game. Thoughts? Does this inspire (pun intended) you to specific thoughts as well?
Streamweaver 07-13-05, 12:12 PM	More thoughts... What happens when they have offspring? Are these Quori minded humans as well by birth or just by the way they are raised? Would this produce a Kalishtar-eque Inspired? After a time you would have a pool of these Quori minded beings on Khorvair, but would they start to see themselves as a seperate race? Would they start to covet Khorvair for themselves instead of giving it over to a Quori invasion? In other words are they setting themselves up for a War of Independence?
Streamweaver 07-13-05, 12:22 PM	Yet more thoughts. The Quori seem to run their conspiracy by heading back to Dal Quor during dream time where time passes faster than in Khorvaire. However these Mind Seeded personalities are denied that ability to communicate that way with other Quori and they don't have the massive advantage of the time difference of Dal Qour to scheme and plan. I would think this would be a very big weakness for the Dreaming Dark and probably make them reluctant to aquire agents this way.
BuddyL33 07-13-05, 12:30 PM	Interesting reply from Keith in this question in the AKB thread. In the interest of keeping that thread clear of discussion as requested I'm pasting that reply and commenting further. So this is very interesting. The victim is basically racially a human with a Quori personality. It seems like it would differ from Empty Vessels and such because it's not just a transformed persality, it's an actual Quori personality that now has to live life as a human. Roleplaying wise this opens some very interesting possibilities. In my opinion this would have to be a special kind hell for the new Seeded Persona. You would basically be an outsider imprisoned in a human body, never able to return to your plane of origin. I have to wonder if the new personalities would resent this? Would they be a bit less than happy little co-conspiritors since they are their own person? Would they become less Qouri and more Human over time and what kind of problems would this cause? Is there a problem with Seeded allies "going over the wall" as it were? It really opens up some interesting ideas for incorporating into a game. Thoughts? Does this inspire (pun intended) you to specific thoughts as well? Well to my understanding it isn't trapped per se. It can visit Dal Quor any time the subject dreams. So basically every night it travels back to Dal Quor to report, scheme, plot, etc.
Streamweaver 07-13-05, 12:36 PM	Well to my understanding it isn't trapped per se. It can visit Dal Quor any time the subject dreams. So basically every night it travels back to Dal Quor to report, scheme, plot, etc. Why? For all intents and purposes, this is a human being. Humans don't have the ability to do this so why would the seeded individual?
BuddyL33 07-13-05, 12:42 PM	Why? For all intents and purposes, this is a human being. Humans don't have the ability to do this so why would the seeded individual? The human doesn't travel back, the Quori Spirit does. In RoE it talks about several Quori from all over the world being able to get together during dreams in Dal Quor and meet and plot. Making them extremely dangerous, because they didn't have to sneak out or go anywhere to meet and geography wasn't an issue.
Streamweaver 07-13-05, 01:11 PM	Nevermind Keith addressed this in the AKB thread with "everyone travels to Dal Quor when they dream". I didn't think this automatically assumed the seeded Quori could behave differently than a normal human could there.
Psymnotica 07-13-05, 01:48 PM	Why? For all intents and purposes, this is a human being. Humans don't have the ability to do this so why would the seeded individual? Actually, they do have the ability to return to Dal Quor. To quote from the ECS: "When mortals dream, they psychically project their minds to Dal Quor, the plane where dreams play out. Dal Quor is ringed with dreamscapes - small, temporary envelopes of pseudoreality where dreamers live their dreams for a short time. Within the ring, however, exists an entirely different world." So, a person who has been mind seeded can travel to Dal Quor every night. But only to a dreamscape in the ring surrounding the Quori cities. If they were to report to their Quori masters through Dal Quor, then the Quori would have to go to them in the dreamscape to find out whatever information was to be relayed. What happens when they have offspring? Are these Quori minded humans as well by birth or just by the way they are raised? Would this produce a Kalishtar-eque Inspired? From my understanding of it, neither. Mind seed doesn't pass down through genetics. And as for the the Kalashtar shared spirit, that is a different technique used than the Quori possession, even though they do have similar roots. It was the renegade Quori who accidentally showed the true Quori the way back to the Material Realm.
BuddyL33 07-13-05, 09:45 PM	I am trying to understand some things and this is what I get. Some may be right some may be incorrect. 1st, a single Quori spirit can inhabit many hosts. Question: If you destory the host, what happens to the Quori spirit or portion of that spirit that was inside the host? I am assuming it returns to Dal Quor so it can inhabit a new host. Thus the Quori spirit lives on personality and all. If you go to Dal Quor you can combat the Quori spirit itself. If you destroy it the personality of the spirit is also destroyed, however, the spirit returns to the center of Dal Quor, so that it can essentially can be reborn. There for the number of Quori never diminishes but you can get rid of some troublesome ones. Question: How do you get to Dal Quor to fight them. I know you can dream, but is there any other way? One thing I love about the Quori/Inspired is their ability to spy. They can essentially be everywhere at once. When their hosts go to sleep they can report in. Time runs differently in Dal Quor. I mean the possibilities are endless!