Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Syltorian 06-07-07, 04:50 AM	Unfortunately we have so far been starved of information on this month's Eberron book, Forge of War. However, they have now updated the Consolidated Lists (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/lists) for this month (June). From what I can see at this time (perhaps they'll keep updating, but I doubt it), there are no new feats, classes (base or PrC), or incantations. The consolidated lists only give spells from the Spell Compendium and the Player's Handbook, so we cannot tell anything there. However, there are five new monsters. Three constructs: Arcane Ballista (Large, CL5), Umbral Spy (Small, CL3) and Warforged Raptor (Large, CL8) One Undead: Karrnathi Dread Marshal (Medium, CL5) One Fey: Mistling (Template). Obviously, little can be said from the mere names. I'll guess that the Mistling is a template for some creatures that happened to be in Cyre at the Day of Mourning. The Karrnathi Dread Marshal sounds interesting. The officer version of the Karrnathi undead? Does it have actual Marshal levels influencing undead?
Rechan 06-07-07, 06:56 AM	I'm willing to bet that the Dread Marshal is lower level version of the Bone Knight. Basically, a necromancer says 'Here Dread Marshal, control these undead that I just animated' and the Marshal goes 'Grrr, ruaah - I mean, okay." It likelyc an control a number of unintelligent undead up to x HD. Also, you have far too much time on your hands if you found this info. Bravo though.
Amaril 06-07-07, 07:25 AM	Also, you have far too much time on your hands if you found this info. Bravo though.It's in the news section and in the D&D RSS feed. all new items are always added to the bottom of the consolidated lists.
Rechan 06-07-07, 07:28 AM	It's in the news section and in the D&D RSS feed. all new items are always added to the bottom of the consolidated lists. Having the D&D updates on the RSS feed still registers in the "too much time" list. :)
Syltorian 06-07-07, 07:44 AM	I'm willing to bet that the Dread Marshal is lower level version of the Bone Knight. Basically, a necromancer says 'Here Dread Marshal, control these undead that I just animated' and the Marshal goes 'Grrr, ruaah - I mean, okay." It likelyc an control a number of unintelligent undead up to x HD. That sounds quite possible. I'd hope for something more unique than the lower level version of an already existing monster, though having a Bone Knight of a level more appropriate to most of Eberron's PCs is good too. Also, you have far too much time on your hands if you found this info. Bravo though. The sad thing is, I don't have too much time. I'm currently extremely busy avoiding doing much needed work... :embarrass
Amaril 06-07-07, 08:16 AM	Having the D&D updates on the RSS feed still registers in the "too much time" list. :) Actually, using a news agregator minimizes the time consumed to gather such information. I just scan down the list of new items and see that there's an update to the consolidated lists, visit the pages, hit End on the keyboard and see what has been added.
Bluebrush 06-07-07, 01:09 PM	No new PrCs? Surely I must be dreaming.
Syltorian 06-08-07, 06:15 AM	In other news, the Previews (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20070607a) are up, and include some extracts from Forge of War. I liked the (apparently annalistic) account of the Last War of Chapter One. Year 971 YK was very interesting, I found. I am also curious about the battle-scars system introduced in Chapter Three. Especially since they also took emotional ones (shell-shock?) into account. As a side notice, I like that Orien is trying to sabotage Lyrandar, and that the book seems to give a little info on the Shadow War between not only the nations but also the Houses. Overall, the book seems to be to a large extent fluff rather than crunch, as already indicated by the probable lack of feats and prestige classes. I'm really excited about it; sounds like a treasure trove of the little bits of information that make Eberron so great.
Psymnotica 06-08-07, 09:37 AM	I am also looking forward to this book - especially since it seems to be high fluff and low crunch. :) In fact, ever since I heard of this book I've been itching for it (more than Dragons of Eberron - and I'm definitely looking forward to that book). It's about time we had a bit more detail on the recent history of Khorvaire. Now if they would only start fleshing out the other nations and territories I would be a much happier DM. Plus I'm sure it will also have an impact on my game as all of the PC's were involved in the Last War as mercenaries with the Blademark Guild. And two of my players are avid real life war historians, so having them come across stories of the various battles and campaigns will be sure to pique their interest. Hooray for Fluffiness! Psymnotica
Nevarre 06-08-07, 09:44 AM	Overall, the book seems to be to a large extent fluff rather than crunch, as already indicated by the probable lack of feats and prestige classes. I'm really excited about it; sounds like a treasure trove of the little bits of information that make Eberron so great. Have read the preview and am equally excited. Me prefer fluff over crunch anyway! :)
Amaril 06-08-07, 10:10 AM	I am also curious about the battle-scars system introduced in Chapter Three. Especially since they also took emotional ones (shell-shock?) into account.I don't get the impression that this is a system per se. It seems to be more of ideas for roleplaying. In other words, I don't expect this to be like the Taint system in Heroes of Horror.
davethebrave371 06-08-07, 01:22 PM	Awesome! Fluff pwns crunch any day.
Euangelion 06-10-07, 12:22 AM	I'm pretty excited about this book (but that kinda goes without saying.) Curse my nitpicking tendencies, but I was amused/confused by one statement in the sampling, regarding Breland's strengths in the uneasy peace after the Last War: "The King's Citadel, and specifically the Dark Lanterns, remains the most skilled intelligence organization on the continent." I would think that House Phiarlan, House Thuranni, the Trust, the Order of the Emerald Claw, the Dreaming Dark, and the Lords of Dust at least would take exception to that claim! Of course, from the perspective of a Brelish commoner, that claim is beyond question.
Rechan 06-10-07, 12:26 AM	When does it hit the shelves?
The White Sorcerer 06-10-07, 12:34 AM	I would think that House Phiarlan, House Thuranni, the Trust, the Order of the Emerald Claw, the Dreaming Dark, and the Lords of Dust at least would take exception to that claim! Of course, from the perspective of a Brelish commoner, that claim is beyond question. I wouldn't really count the Dreaming Dark or the Lords of Dust since they're both immortal organizations. As for the rest, I can understand the Houses of Shadow and maybe the Trust (although I think they're better at keeping secrets rather than finding them), but I definately wouldn't rank the Emerald Claw above the Dark Lanterns or even the Citadel in general.
Euangelion 06-10-07, 12:47 AM	...but I definately wouldn't rank the Emerald Claw above the Dark Lanterns or even the Citadel in general. Personally, I actually agree with this. And thinking it over, I'd probably not include them if I were to write the post now. However, IIRC they are described as the largest intelligence organization of Khorvaire, but of course that doesn't necessarily mean most skilled. On the other hand, just because a couple of organizations are composed of immortal (LoD) or very long-lived in their present incarnation (the Dreaming Dark until the next Turning of the Age) beings, that doesn't mean it's not fair to include them!
PoeticJustice 06-10-07, 01:46 AM	...that doesn't mean it's not fair to include them! I disagree. For one, Joe Brelish doesn't have a clue who any of those guys are and since neither of them had a direct involvement in the Last War it would be a misstep to include them.
Cifer 06-10-07, 09:14 AM	and since neither of them had a direct involvement in the Last War At least, that's what they want you to think...
Syltorian 06-10-07, 11:01 AM	I disagree. For one, Joe Brelish doesn't have a clue who any of those guys are Which would make them pretty good secret service. Joe Brelish probably does know who the Citadel and the Dark Lanterns are. Which makes them that little bit less secret. ;) Anyway, I agree that Phiarlan would be the best intelligence service on the continent, and Thuranni the best one to deal with problems. They have much larger networks, the support of their dragonmarks and dragonmark items, and experience that pre-dates the existence of Breland and even the ancient Kingdom of Wroat. Of the Five Nations, Breland might be the best; but I don't see them as the best on the entire continent. At least, that's what they want you to think... Exactly. For all we know, they might have sparked the whole thing off in the first place, or caused the Mourning.
DBlizzard 06-10-07, 01:07 PM	Curse my nitpicking tendencies, but I was amused/confused by one statement in the sampling, regarding Breland's strengths in the uneasy peace after the Last War: "The King's Citadel, and specifically the Dark Lanterns, remains the most skilled intelligence organization on the continent." My guess is that they missed a qualifier in that statement. There should be something that excludes the groups that hires out to anyone that pays them the right fee (i.e. the dragonmarked houses). Then I would think it could be accurate.
_Radagast_ 06-10-07, 02:43 PM	My guess is that they missed a qualifier in that statement. There should be something that excludes the groups that hires out to anyone that pays them the right fee (i.e. the dragonmarked houses). Then I would think it could be accurate. Perhaps the best intelligence organization "of any nation."
Euangelion 06-10-07, 03:44 PM	Perhaps the best intelligence organization "of any nation." That makes sense to me. Bottom line: it's not really a big deal. I'm sure the book will be fine.
Nevarre 06-10-07, 07:46 PM	Check out Keith's post on that very topic here... (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12674984&postcount=4) :)
MayorMcNaked 06-11-07, 10:35 AM	So when does it hit the shelves? And do we have any clues yet on crunch content? PrCs, feats, etc.?
Euangelion 06-11-07, 11:35 AM	That makes sense to me. Bottom line: it's not really a big deal. I'm sure the book will be fine. Edit: besides the Trust, as I mentioned in my first post on the subject.
Edymnion 06-11-07, 12:22 PM	Warforged Raptor (Large, CL8)Blast it, now this has got me wondering if its a bird of prey, or a velociraptor.
Euangelion 06-11-07, 01:50 PM	Blast it, now this has got me wondering if its a bird of prey, or a velociraptor. I'm hoping it's neither. I'd prefer not to have to open the "living construct mount" can of worms at this point, and any animal-ish warforged simply begs that question.
The White Sorcerer 06-11-07, 03:48 PM	I think the whole "who's the best spy?" thing is more of a "stnank" than a "mistake." The author propably forgot to specify that he was talking only about the intelligence agencies of the Five Nations, since the whole section was about the Five.
Edymnion 06-11-07, 04:56 PM	I'm hoping it's neither. I'd prefer not to have to open the "living construct mount" can of worms at this point, and any animal-ish warforged simply begs that question.Well, that can is already open, IMO, as we have WF squid and WF scorpions already.
WarlockDa 06-11-07, 08:06 PM	So when does it hit the shelves? And do we have any clues yet on crunch content? PrCs, feats, etc.? 19th, next Tues. per the listing on Amazon. Has for clues, the first part of this thread mentions the Consolidated Lists being updated with feats and such from this books, as well as the listing in this month's previews page.
davethebrave371 06-11-07, 08:09 PM	Well, that can is already open, IMO, as we have WF squid and WF scorpions already. WF in monster entry name only, as neither has the living construct subtype.
Tavish 06-12-07, 09:15 AM	Well, that can is already open, IMO, as we have WF squid and WF scorpions already. And don't forget the Tauric Belt, so you could essentially ride the warforged-centaur! :)
Thindelock 06-13-07, 01:21 AM	From the recently-posted art gallery for this book, I present "Where'd that come from?": http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ForgeWar_Gallery/105877.jpg Think it's safe to assume this is the umbral spy?
The White Sorcerer 06-13-07, 03:16 AM	Blast it, now this has got me wondering if its a bird of prey, or a velociraptor. Bird of prey. (http://wizards.com/dnd/images/ForgeWar_Gallery/105878.jpg)
The White Sorcerer 06-13-07, 03:18 AM	WF in monster entry name only, as neither has the living construct subtype. That applies to warforged titans as well.
Syltorian 06-13-07, 05:14 AM	From the recently-posted art gallery for this book, I present "Where'd that come from?": http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ForgeWar_Gallery/105877.jpg Think it's safe to assume this is the umbral spy? I'd agree with that assumption. Is this a mistling (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ForgeWar_Gallery/105876.jpg)? When I first read the name, I thought they had to do with the Mournland. But given they are fey, I'm actually happy they don't seem to be that much connected to it. Provided I am interpreting the picture correctly.
From_Khyber 06-13-07, 08:38 AM	From the recently-posted art gallery for this book, I present "Where'd that come from?": http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ForgeWar_Gallery/105877.jpg Think it's safe to assume this is the umbral spy? It is ;)
From_Khyber 06-13-07, 08:40 AM	I'd agree with that assumption. Is this a mistling (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ForgeWar_Gallery/105876.jpg)? When I first read the name, I thought they had to do with the Mournland. But given they are fey, I'm actually happy they don't seem to be that much connected to it. Provided I am interpreting the picture correctly. Mistling is a template. This picture resembles a dryad, having been warped by the Mourning.
Syltorian 06-13-07, 09:08 AM	Mistling is a template. This picture resembles a dryad, having been warped by the Mourning. So it is connected to the Mourning. Is the template applied only to fey caught in the cataclysm, or can other creatures gain it too?
From_Khyber 06-13-07, 09:12 AM	So it is connected to the Mourning. Is the template applied only to fey caught in the cataclysm, or can other creatures gain it too? Mistlings can only be applied to fey. They once dwelt in the wilderness of Cyre, now having been maddened by the Mourning.
davethebrave371 06-13-07, 10:40 AM	Mistlings can only be applied to fey. They once dwelt in the wilderness of Cyre, now having been maddened by the Mourning. OMG! That works perfectly for an encounter I have planned for the next time my players venture into the Mournland. If they do, I suppose, considering none of them really want to return there. Ha!
Syltorian 06-13-07, 11:27 AM	Mistlings can only be applied to fey. They once dwelt in the wilderness of Cyre, now having been maddened by the Mourning. Thanks for the information. I like that concept.
From_Khyber 06-13-07, 12:54 PM	Speaking of monsters in the Forge of War, I can tell you that the Umbral Spy is lovable as well! Very interesting creatures!
Frederyck 06-13-07, 01:28 PM	These all sound very interesting. Lets hope WotC shows us some plastic love for them so that a few of them appear in later miniature sets as well!
polt 06-13-07, 03:45 PM	A couple of things rubs me the wrong way this preview: The King's Citadel, and specifically the Dark Lanterns, remains the most skilled intelligence organization on the continent. Not in my game. I was always under the impression that Thuranni and Pharlian were the masters of that game. Karrnath remains the dominant military power in the region. Its armies are larger, better trained, and better equipped. When did that happen? I was under the impression that Karrnath was one of the hardest hit during the war. And that's why they turned to Vol and the Emerald Claw. I remember something about famine and all that kind of stuff in the ECS. I know it's one of the most militaryoriented nations, but I thought that was mostly from tradition and not the current state of the nation.
davethebrave371 06-13-07, 05:39 PM	The famine happened during Kaius I's reign, so they've had over 80 years to build up (IIRC) from the famine. And as KB said in the other thread, it's entirely possible they meant in the Five Nations. Since Zilargo is clearly the best of the best national orgs, with Medani and the Shadow Houses having superior information gathering skills to any individual nation.
Edymnion 06-13-07, 08:42 PM	Bird of prey. (http://wizards.com/dnd/images/ForgeWar_Gallery/105878.jpg)Wow. Thats really, really... crappy. I was hoping for something that looked more like Tallyhawk, as opposed to... the bastard lovechild of a goose and a dragonfly...
ChristopherGroves 06-13-07, 08:46 PM	Arcane Ballista was a D&D Mini already; likely to be similar to the stats for that. Who knows what the Raptor will be in stats.
Edymnion 06-13-07, 09:16 PM	There's one thing that shocked me about this book. I was looking through the art gallery, and I *SWEAR* one of the pictures in there is one of my PCs. Taran d'Lyrander, the Stormlord. Half-Elf Sorcerer with the heavy theme on wind, lightning, thunder, and rain (aka, storms). I can't freaking wait to see the text that goes along with this picture. If anybody has it yet, what is the story behind this picture? http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ForgeWar_Gallery/105847.jpg
The White Sorcerer 06-13-07, 10:12 PM	Since Zilargo is clearly the best of the best national orgs, with Medani and the Shadow Houses having superior information gathering skills to any individual nation. Hmm... I wouldn't necessarily rank House Medani above the Trust or the Dark Lanterns, considering that they aren't primarily in the information gathering business.
From_Khyber 06-13-07, 10:23 PM	I can't freaking wait to see the text that goes along with this picture. If anybody has it yet, what is the story behind this picture? http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ForgeWar_Gallery/105847.jpg A member of House Lyrandar shows his enemies why it is a poor idea to threaten anyone who commands the weather itself. The picture comes along House Lyrandar's description in the book.
alder_zeal 06-13-07, 10:28 PM	Warforged raptor- velociraptor- Me Grimlock say you attack them. Me Grimlock king. Thankfully it is the bird of prey
From_Khyber 06-13-07, 10:36 PM	Hmm... I wouldn't necessarily rank House Medani above the Trust or the Dark Lanterns, considering that they aren't primarily in the information gathering business. Precisely. But then again, the Trust and the Dark Lanterns dabble in additional employments as well - this doesn't necessarily deteriorate them, does it? The Forge of War says that they spent alot of time gathering information for Breland during the war. They were actually one of the most biased houses throughout the war. As for the whole "who are the best"-question - I'd personally go for the Trust ;)
davethebrave371 06-13-07, 11:23 PM	Hmm... I wouldn't necessarily rank House Medani above the Trust or the Dark Lanterns, considering that they aren't primarily in the information gathering business. ...really? I'm not sure what you call Inquisitive work, but I think it's pretty safe to say it's extensive information gathering, both with the mechanical Gather Info (a key skill for Medani heirs) and and in a fluff sense with them ensuring, according to Dragonmarked and the ECS, that their targets never get in the way of danger because they ferret it out three or four steps ahead (i.e. they've already figured out which stable boy will let in the repairman who sets the device which allows for the assassin to get in, etc) It's at a more individual level, sure. But it's still information gathering, and decidedly better than most intelligence orgs (aside perhaps from the Trust and the Houses of Shadow)
Identitystolen 06-14-07, 01:09 AM	Hmm... I wouldn't necessarily rank House Medani above the Trust or the Dark Lanterns, considering that they aren't primarily in the information gathering business. Medani is about as good as either of the shadow mark houses in gathering information according to the Dragonmarked book. The big difference is they don't sell that info, they retain it to help in later investigations. Basically, as Davethebrave said.
Hellcow 06-14-07, 01:39 AM	And as KB said in the other thread, it's entirely possible they meant in the Five Nations. Since Zilargo is clearly the best of the best national orgs, with Medani and the Shadow Houses having superior information gathering skills to any individual nation. It appears to me that Trust isn't mentioned in the book at all. Honestly, I think the authors overlooked it (which is a pity, because according to page 212 of the ECS, Zilargo provided Breland with intelligence services as part of their alliance). Someone already noted that there's a Zil librarian with a name that doesn't follow the gnomish naming conventions, and I think it's just the case that not everyone gets the gnomes. I don't think this is has a significant impact on the book as a whole; the main players in the Last War are the Five Nations, and I'm sure that the authors are familiar with the Five Nations. But as Zilargo is one of MY favorite nations, I am sad to see the opportunity slip by to talk about the role of the gnomes in the wider world in more detail. With that said, there's a simple, obvious answer that solves this problem without invalidating the content of FoW. The actions of the Trust aren't described in more detail because no historian every realized that they WERE the actions of the Trust. As they benefited Breland, people naturally concluded this was the work of the Dark Lanterns. In fact, the "We're the best in Khorvaire" reputation of the Dark Lanterns comes from the fact that Breland had support from both Zilargo and Medani in addition to its own skilled agents. Whatever agency you give top billing to, when you bring all three to the table it's clear that Breland had the best intelligence and covert operations forces of any of the Five Nations. Anyhow, despite this minor nitpick, I'm certainly looking forward to having the chance to read though this in more detail. I've worked with Ari and James before and have high expectations.
The White Sorcerer 06-14-07, 02:57 AM	I think the authors overlooked [the Trust] And that's how the gnomes like it. :incog:
From_Khyber 06-14-07, 07:27 AM	It appears to me that Trust isn't mentioned in the book at all. Honestly, I think the authors overlooked it (which is a pity, because according to page 212 of the ECS, Zilargo provided Breland with intelligence services as part of their alliance). They are mentioned, but they have been given remarkably little text compared to other nations, which is indeed a pity. And that's how the gnomes like it. Yeah, it is, but that's not how we like it (or most of us, anyway). Seeing as how the Forge of War isn't a historical book published in Khorvaire, I can't see how this should affect them in any way. I don't think the Lords of Dust would be particularly fond of how they've been mentioned in previous sourcebooks, but therefore they must be mentioned nevertheless, for us, as DMs and PCs, to be aware of their existence :D One can only hope that future sourcebooks will give the gnomes of Zilargo a bit more love than the published ones have, but with Dragons of Eberron coming up, it surely looks doesn't look that way. A bit off-topic: This did, however, give me an idea :lightbulb Alot of great minds visit these boards every day, contributing and helping with a bit of their impressive knowledge. looking at the succes of the "No Love for the Goblins (Keith Baker invited)" over at the People and Places boards, we could set a similar project in motion, where all of us delve into the exhilarating nation of gnomes, and well... flesh it out, the same way the goblinoids were fleshed out over at the "No love for the Goblins" thread. Any thoughts on this?
Edymnion 06-14-07, 08:02 AM	A member of House Lyrandar shows his enemies why it is a poor idea to threaten anyone who commands the weather itself. The picture comes along House Lyrandar's description in the book.Heh, close e-frickin-nuff for me. :D
polt 06-14-07, 08:46 AM	There's one thing that shocked me about this book. I was looking through the art gallery, and I *SWEAR* one of the pictures in there is one of my PCs. Taran d'Lyrander, the Stormlord. Half-Elf Sorcerer with the heavy theme on wind, lightning, thunder, and rain (aka, storms). I can't freaking wait to see the text that goes along with this picture. If anybody has it yet, what is the story behind this picture? http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ForgeWar_Gallery/105847.jpg One of your PCs? That is a pretty standard character if you ask me. I've seen that guy in countless games.
davethebrave371 06-14-07, 09:25 AM	One of your PCs? That is a pretty standard character if you ask me. I've seen that guy in countless games. Really? In my experience, the Lyrandar airship captain (or aspiring airship captain) is the most common Lyrandar stereotype. Hell, in my game, we had one at the start who wanted an airship, and then two character deaths later for another player, he chose to play the same basic role (only at this point the average party level minus one was high enough that he was just at the level where he gets an airship with Windright Heir to start). Of course, they were very different characters in a lot of ways. But they had the same basic archetype.
Splendide 06-14-07, 10:35 AM	It appears to me that Trust isn't mentioned in the book at all. Honestly, I think the authors overlooked it (which is a pity, because according to page 212 of the ECS, Zilargo provided Breland with intelligence services as part of their alliance). Someone already noted that there's a Zil librarian with a name that doesn't follow the gnomish naming conventions, and I think it's just the case that not everyone gets the gnomes. I don't think this is has a significant impact on the book as a whole; the main players in the Last War are the Five Nations, and I'm sure that the authors are familiar with the Five Nations. But as Zilargo is one of MY favorite nations, I am sad to see the opportunity slip by to talk about the role of the gnomes in the wider world in more detail. I was hoping they would paint it with a whole `Casablanca' type feel, where all the ne'er-do-wells far from their homes congregate while the war rages elsewhere, yet could get closer any day. Its getting pretty bloody tiresome that people writing Eberron supplements aren't familiar with Eberron though, particularly when its a historical supplement.
Splendide 06-14-07, 10:36 AM	A bit off-topic: This did, however, give me an idea :lightbulb Alot of great minds visit these boards every day, contributing and helping with a bit of their impressive knowledge. looking at the succes of the "No Love for the Goblins (Keith Baker invited)" over at the People and Places boards, we could set a similar project in motion, where all of us delve into the exhilarating nation of gnomes, and well... flesh it out, the same way the goblinoids were fleshed out over at the "No love for the Goblins" thread. Any thoughts on this?I'm up for it. I've got big ideas for a Trolanport festival.
From_Khyber 06-14-07, 10:46 AM	I'm up for it. I've got big ideas for a Trolanport festival. The please, my good friend, stop by here: No Love for the Gnomes (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=866476) :D
Hellcow 06-14-07, 11:34 AM	They are mentioned, but they have been given remarkably little text compared to other nations, which is indeed a pity. I know ZILARGO is mentioned, but is the Trust itself mentioned? I couldn't find anything about it. Which is essentially my point. I don't think there's anyone writing for Eberron who's going to literally ignore an entire country (at least I hope not) - however, they may overlook some of the deeper aspects of the country. From what I've seen, it describes Zilargo as a source of siege engines, elemental-bound weapons, and even mercenary companies using wands. All fine and good, but the ECS notes that Breland relied on the gnomes for intelligence as well (and that they specialize in alchemy, which I've always seen as something they've explored the military aspects of, but that's another story). Sure, if they have to go to war, a wand company is a fine idea, but one of the whole principles of Zilargo is to avoid any unnecessary violence. "Five words can defeat a thousand swords" - the same principle applies to spies and soldiers. Again, I don't think this is a huge reflection on the book as a whole. I've seen at lot of stuff that looks quite good. I think it's simply the case that the gnomes of Zilargo are a very different sort of culture from traditional gnomes, and not everyone - even Eberron authors - really gets them. we could set a similar project in motion, where all of us delve into the exhilarating nation of gnomes, and well... flesh it out, the same way the goblinoids were fleshed out over at the "No love for the Goblins" thread. Any thoughts on this? I think it's a fine idea. With that said, I'll probably avoid it for the same reasons I've avoided the Goblins thread. I have many strong opinions about Zilargo... far more opinions than I have time to express. I don't want to get into arguments with anyone who has wonderful ideas of their own that just happen to be different from mine - and meanwhile, I really just don't have the time to get caught up in something like this, because I can easily see spending hours and hours on it, and I really just don't have the time now. And, of course, should I have the time, I'd really like to find a way to write something for a canon source. So: I think it's a fine idea. The nation needs more love. If I stay away, it's because I know I'd get sucked in and spend hours I don't have (or as I said, get into arguments with people who just love their own ideas). But who knows, maybe I'll break down.
Edymnion 06-14-07, 11:40 AM	One of your PCs? That is a pretty standard character if you ask me. I've seen that guy in countless games.How many half-elf storm themed sorcerers have you seen again?
The White Sorcerer 06-14-07, 12:58 PM	How many half-elf storm themed sorcerers have you seen again? In Eberron? One of my players had a half-elf storm themed wizard, does that count? It's also one of the first character concepts that I thought of when thinking about dragonmarked characters. The concept is just so obvious in Eberron.
From_Khyber 06-14-07, 03:45 PM	So: I think it's a fine idea. The nation needs more love. If I stay away, it's because I know I'd get sucked in and spend hours I don't have (or as I said, get into arguments with people who just love their own ideas). But who knows, maybe I'll break down. Fairplay. That's very reasonable, and to be honest, pretty logical as well. Of course, the Eberron authors don't have time to ceaselessly debate with the fans about potential future material. Sorry for my lack of common sense on this matter. The fact that authors do hang out here is very much appreciated!
Hellcow 06-14-07, 05:39 PM	Sorry for my lack of common sense on this matter. There's nothing to be sorry about! I think it's a great idea for a thread, I just wanted to explain why I wasn't appearing on a thread dedicated to one of my favorite subjects. It's not that I have no interest or nothing to say - I have too much to say, not enough time to say it, and I don't want to get caught up in debates. Have fun with it!
From_Khyber 06-14-07, 05:56 PM	There's nothing to be sorry about! I think it's a great idea for a thread, I just wanted to explain why I wasn't appearing on a thread dedicated to one of my favorite subjects. It's not that I have no interest or nothing to say - I have too much to say, not enough time to say it, and I don't want to get caught up in debates. Have fun with it! Thanks. The thread is already blossoming with great posts :dancin:
DBlizzard 06-14-07, 05:58 PM	TI have too much to say, not enough time to say it, and I don't want to get caught up in debates. Then why, exactly, are you hanging out here? ;) Hanging out on an internet forum when you don't want to get caught up in debates. Sheesh!
Edymnion 06-14-07, 06:20 PM	In Eberron? One of my players had a half-elf storm themed wizard, does that count? It's also one of the first character concepts that I thought of when thinking about dragonmarked characters. The concept is just so obvious in Eberron.Fair enough. Just in my own defense, I created this character (although its undergone several revisions since then) back in 2003, well before Eberron came out.
davethebrave371 06-18-07, 04:00 PM	Fair enough. Just in my own defense, I created this character (although its undergone several revisions since then) back in 2003, well before Eberron came out. You know, that's funny. Most human casters I encounter favour fire, and most half-elf and elven ones favour lightning or sonic. I wonder what Jungeons and Dragons archetype people have in their head when they think that half-elves and elves are associated with sonic and lightning?
Syltorian 06-19-07, 05:54 AM	Previews (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070618a&page=1) are up!
Euangelion 06-19-07, 11:01 AM	You know, that's funny. Most human casters I encounter favour fire, and most half-elf and elven ones favour lightning or sonic. I wonder what Jungeons and Dragons archetype people have in their head when they think that half-elves and elves are associated with sonic and lightning? Elves=nature, lightning + thunder=nature Humans destroy nature, fire destroys nature (though everyone knows that an occassional fire is healthy for a forest in the long term) Just a guess.
Cifer 06-19-07, 12:23 PM	I'd say that lightning can be considered more 'graceful' than fire, especially with the spells given.
Saryn 06-19-07, 03:21 PM	Someone could tell me where I can find more about Trust? In ECS there's only few words.
Syltorian 06-19-07, 03:49 PM	Someone could tell me where I can find more about Trust? In ECS there's only few words. If we told you, the Trust would probably kill you. :P So, at your own risks, check Player's Guide to Eberron, p.68 for a few paragraphs.
Amaril 06-19-07, 03:59 PM	Elves=nature, lightning + thunder=nature Humans destroy nature, fire destroys nature (though everyone knows that an occassional fire is healthy for a forest in the long term) Just a guess. But wait, lightning in nature causes fires. Fire destroys nature. Elves destroy nature and are unnatural! Wait there's more. Fire is a naturally occuring chemical reaction as well as one of the prime natural elements of nature. Fire destroys nature. Elves destroy nature and are unnatural! One more: Humans = innovation. Electricity = innovation. Electricity should be associated with humans (based on this underdeveloped logic). And no, just because some humans destroy nature, doesn't mean they all do or that they should be associated with fire just because fire destroys nature. That's an example of the true definition of "begs the question".
davethebrave371 06-19-07, 07:06 PM	But wait, lightning in nature causes fires. Fire destroys nature. Elves destroy nature and are unnatural! Wait there's more. Fire is a naturally occuring chemical reaction as well as one of the prime natural elements of nature. Fire destroys nature. Elves destroy nature and are unnatural! One more: Humans = innovation. Electricity = innovation. Electricity should be associated with humans (based on this underdeveloped logic). And no, just because some humans destroy nature, doesn't mean they all do or that they should be associated with fire just because fire destroys nature. That's an example of the true definition of "begs the question". Simmer down! He was proposing ideas, not setting in stone for all time what that comes from in all people.
Amaril 06-19-07, 09:27 PM	Simmer down! He was proposing ideas, not setting in stone for all time what that comes from in all people. I know. I was just being silly in most of that. I should have slapped a smiley in there somewhere.