Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Charles Phipps 03-23-05, 04:33 AM	Basically, CAN Eberron fit everything? This is a thread for Mobile Suit Eberron and cannibalizing its characters, plots, and so forth into Eberron. I think it fairly easy to include the Mecha itself (though I have no idea how you'd stat the dang things) and the themes of "War is Bad", "The other guy is exactly like you so why are you fighting", and "evil and good people are both available in equal amounts on the two sides" are things are practically built into Eberron at present.
DarkWarriorKarg 03-23-05, 07:58 AM	Armies of Apparati of Kawlish? Piloted Iron Golems? See Castle Greyhawk (1st ed, comedy module). No, they don't belong.
Endless_Helix 03-23-05, 08:19 AM	Basically you want a piloted warforged titan or four with some additional special abilities.So give some spell-like abilities to a warforged titan and ta-daa! Gundam Suit! Scorching ray would be a good one as well as fireball. Flight would make sense and magic missle or something would be good to deal with weaker stuff. For the plot you could involve the LOBster, just for kicks. to represent the piloted nature use the character's BAB, initiative, saves, and skills and the Titan's stats, AC, and armor check penalty and spell failure.
lokycat 03-23-05, 08:24 AM	Well... :thinks: It culd be powered by a dragonshard with a Large elemental in it. ________________________________________ ________________________ Essential for PC Artificer Making Magic Items I (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041207a) Making Magic Items II (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041214a) Making Magic Items III (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041221a) Making Magic Items IV (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041228a) Making Magic Items V (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050104a) Making Magic Items VI (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050111a) Making Magic Items VII (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050118a)
TwinBahamut 03-23-05, 11:28 AM	Whoa, that just blew a few circuits in my brain... Gundam.... in Eberron... Hmmm.... Well, I am honestly doubting that putting giant robots in Eberron would work well. Then again, it worked in Escaflowne, and that kind of steam-mech (replacing Dragon Energists with Dragonshards) might actually work. However, you would need to change the timing/setting from post-Last War Khorvaire. The default setting just wouldn't let this work. How much you want it to change depends on how much you want it to be like Mobile Suit Gundam itself. If you just want the giant robots, I would say first advance the entire magical-industrial society of Eberron at least a few decades of rapid progress. Lightning-rails everywhere, large aerial fleets of airships, etc. If you want the particular plots and characters to be translated over, then things get a bit more difficult and interesting. Many of the Gundam shows focus on a single, massive world state/allaince of world states, and some group rebelling against that state. In Eberron, Sarlona has the only close parallel (and much like Gundam, has psychic powers), but it is a nation that is far less likely to build giant robots in my opinion. I suppose you can say that many years after the Last War, many of the old nations reunite under some new banner, only to have a faction rebel and attempt to seize power... Argh, this is hard.
DarkWarriorKarg 03-23-05, 12:02 PM	Whoa, that just blew a few circuits in my brain... Gundam.... in Eberron... Hmmm.... Well, I am honestly doubting that putting giant robots in Eberron would work well. Then again, it worked in Escaflowne, and that kind of steam-mech (replacing Dragon Energists with Dragonshards) might actually work. However, you would need to change the timing/setting from post-Last War Khorvaire. The default setting just wouldn't let this work. How much you want it to change depends on how much you want it to be like Mobile Suit Gundam itself. If you just want the giant robots, I would say first advance the entire magical-industrial society of Eberron at least a few decades of rapid progress. Lightning-rails everywhere, large aerial fleets of airships, etc. If you want the particular plots and characters to be translated over, then things get a bit more difficult and interesting. Many of the Gundam shows focus on a single, massive world state/allaince of world states, and some group rebelling against that state. In Eberron, Sarlona has the only close parallel (and much like Gundam, has psychic powers), but it is a nation that is far less likely to build giant robots in my opinion. I suppose you can say that many years after the Last War, many of the old nations reunite under some new banner, only to have a faction rebel and attempt to seize power... Argh, this is hard. Well, if it's mostly psion Shapers... with a special feat, they could possibly form the constructs around themselves...
Kid SixXx 03-23-05, 12:31 PM	I like Endless Helix's proposal. Specialized Warforged Titans / Siege Engines with sentient "docents" (ie. the Gundam pilot) seems to fit in the flavor of the game. I think this concept was batted around a bit during the "Convert Metal Gear Solid to Eberron" thread maaaany moons ago. The "Metal Gear" was converted to being a specialized WT which had a specialized docent that targeting information was transmitted to.
darkthought 03-23-05, 01:35 PM	Check out the D20 Future book. It details mecha and rules on how to use them. Some (minor) changes are needed to slide it into a fantasy setting. Also look up the Dragonmech book...
Joni-san 03-23-05, 01:47 PM	Ok, Charles Phipps, I officially dub thee "Canon Killer" How you take and treat the title is your problem :P. Now on-topic: The theme of Gundam as you presented it (I haven't seen much of any Gundam to judge really) could do for an interesting campaign in Eberron :). However there are some problems: :pumpkin: *How would you get in the Gundams and the Battle-suits? *How widespread would they be? And who'd use them? *Power source?
Kid SixXx 03-23-05, 01:55 PM	*How would you get in the Gundams and the Battle-suits? If the Gundams are running parallel to Warforged construction, then there would naturally be a componant slot running roughly to where a amulet / docent slot would be, probably the chest area. Since there are already such things as antigrav-style magelifts in Sharn, the means to getting up to the "cockpit" is an afterthought: base the entry procedure on a similar prinicpal. *How widespread would they be? Probably very rare. If it were me, I'd tie them into the Last War and make them weapons of last resort, much like the Floating Fortress in Breland is now. *And who'd use them? Being relics of the Last War, anyone who got their hands on one would use them. Naturally you'd have to figure out how to work one, and that's where the House Cannith adventure hook would come in. *Power source? Bound elementals in Khyber shards.. Did you really have to ask? ;)
jesterjeff 03-23-05, 02:07 PM	I can see a Gundam campaign as taking place at The High point of the Last War; The great nations have fallen into total war, the warforged are released from theirforges, the spellmasters have crafted arcane plagues to release upon mortal armies and the Great Houses have open the gates to their armories to release their finest creations. Crafted to mimic the legendary Dragons, the giants of ancient history, the heroes of myth and the beastial monsters of the wilds; the Great Utilitarian National Dragonshard Armoured Mechanism's are the final greatest weapons to win the war. Who is brave enough to pilot these G.U.N.D.A.M units? Who is strong enough to survive? This actually works to show how the nations of Eberron came to fear another War so much, they saw what they could do to each other if pushed. so a vast flashback campaign......maybe told by the grandfather of one of your Campaign's current C's-wavey lines and he's playing as grandpa as he saw his 1st gundam and.....action.
Charles Phipps 03-23-05, 02:15 PM	Hmmmmm....canon killer, I like it. Well given these stories have usually the Gundams surrounded by lesser weapons, I'd definitely have lesser versions of suits created. These things might have been made to be the vanguard of the warforged armies. The Gundams themselves would be Adamantine versions of these regular steel siege engines/warforged juggernauts. Some plotlines that come to mind already 1. The Lord of Blades leads several of his warforged to steal the prototype Adamant "Ultraforged" armor suits. The Lord of Blades takes the place of the 'war is good' propaganda spouting character for the campaign as he uses his new super-weapons, developed in Breeland to conduct lightning fast raids on many important sites. The PCs are given a mission plus the last of the remaining prototypes (hopefully things they prevented the Lord of Blades from stealing in the first place) to hunt him down. 2. Several Flying Cities were created pre-War of Galifar and managed to largely stay out of the conflict. They're composed of the Four factions (including Cyre) largely and relied on each others friendship during the war while they were largely forgotten. Now all four nations want them back and are willing to risk war because the treaty of thronehold didn't cover them and none of the nations wants to risk the dangers a flying city could pose if they ever became part of another faction. Their defenses are huge piloted Warforged juggernauts that House Cannith is "quietly" commissioned to provide a counter to. Somehow the PCs come into possession of a better suit than the rest...or one that's evolving. 2B.The Spelljammer version of this takes this far more seriously in adaptation and there's numerous forgotren colonies on the moons. 3. Sarlona plans to drop one of the tiny moons above Eberron onto the planet's surface of Khovaire after some significant discussion between the factions and the conclusion it'll be better to wipe out the dragons, elves, and other factions than ry to subvert them. The PCs are sent in one of their super-suits to figure out a way to break it up. However, that will devastate large sections of Sarlona and other continents potentially. 4. Studies reveal the existence of a process that can (and has) transformed children into 'new types' (Sorcerers or Psionicists) confirmably with just alchemical process. The fact that they tend to have far higher stats than normal also results (and resulted in) massive jealousy and persecution for the left over genetic enhancement experiments of the War. Is the Lord of Blades responsible for this revival in study or is it honest beings who wish to create a better humanity?What of the original survivors? Are they plotting revenge? 5. The Fun one The PCs are called to defend a pacifist kingdom (hopefully with a beautiful princess), which cofounds them with their refusal to defend themselves but yet with their own desire to not see them annihilated.
Liane the Wayfarer 03-23-05, 02:42 PM	Somehow the PCs come into possession of a better suit than the rest...or one that's evolving. Perhaps they could find one in a ruin in Xen'drik? The giants seem to have left a number of warforged-related items behind, and after all, a 'Warforged Suit' made by a giant might very well be somewhat larger than normal...
hiryuu 03-23-05, 03:21 PM	The Dragonmech campaign setting has some very nice ideas for walkers/mecha/mobile suits, including rules for different materials, up to and including animated wood and undead flesh. I don't know if it's a good idea to pull into Eberron, though. The themes, yes, but I think you should try and steer clear of the more fantastic (yes, I actually said that) elements in the Gundam series, namely, the mobile suits. Maybe replace them with some sort of new magic item/outfit that augments a soldier's strength and gives him some AC and some more accuracy, or somesuch (at least, that's what I'd do)?
Charles Phipps 03-23-05, 03:28 PM	I'm largely just interested in what people think is salvagable about the Gundam "settings" and their stories rather than just asking for people to say 'Gundams in Eberron, isn't that Roxor!?' I'm unlikely to want to do over the top mecha piloting action where Dragons face down Gundams while armis of lesser mobile suits move across the plains. Though honestly, it wouldn't be that bad of a campaign. Everyone runs D&D a little differently and while its definitely High-Magic/High Power and plenty of D&D games shy away from that with good reason. My games are more storytelling based anyway. The fact the PCs might have a semi-invincible suit does not necessitate the games will become boring because the game is about achieving goals through diplomacy/interaction. Plus, Eberron is one of the few campaigns where it is POSSIBLE.
Prince Indirian 03-23-05, 03:38 PM	One word: Xendrik. The mechs could be ancient WF that were created as toys by the Giants. The giants were chickens and didn't want to get hurt so they created these to fight their enemies with. O something like that. Maybe they had elves fighting in them , against each other, kind of like gladiators. Controling them with psionic or arcane powers. Either way, I like the Idea of mechs, however if humans created them it might be a little to much. If they simply found...or even worse the Lord of Blades finds a couple
Aubri 03-23-05, 04:24 PM	I like the idea of the "mecha" starting out as a Huge suit of Xen'drik giant armor! It's a starting place, anyway. I don't think it's entirely unthemely, since as Kid SixXx pointed out, there's already the Floating Fortress. Superscalar magical constructs aren't entirely unheard-of in Eberron. Maybe there's even a gnome crazy enough to build one... I suspect you're going to end up with a situation where the PC(s) drive the mecha but there's no other mecha around. Twin Bahamut is right in that making this a common technology breaks the setting a little too much. A Large vehicle like the Magitech armor from FF6 might be a better fit for the "standard" mecha, if you fast forward a few years. Maybe they're released in celebration of 1000 YK. Watch out for the 1000 YK bug. :) A few details and random thoughts: Escaflowne's "enhanced-destiny warriors" would fit perfectly here as a couple of Fatespinners. I don't know what it relates to, but the idea of a giant mecha crouched down and zooming along lightning rail tracks seems really cool to me. I'd try to stay away from too much magical weaponry, myself. I'd give each one (if you HAVE more than one) a particular spell-like ability, 3 or 5 times per day, maybe even only once if it's a really good one. Primary weapons should be a ballista-based projectile weapon (say, a +3 flaming one) and a melee weapon of choice--preferably something integrated like a spiked gauntlet, but gundam like the beam sabers so if you come up with something that'd work... A ballista is basically a Huge crossbow, so just scale up the desired crossbow to Huge if you don't want a heavy. It's a little easier for me to specify weapons for a particular gundam. Though I'm loathe to do so, I was a late comer to the Gundam community--so I'll use Wing. Anime weaponry: Twin chainguns, beam cannon, beam saber, shield. Eberron weaponry: +1 shock repeating heavy crossbow, disintegrate 1/day, +2 adamantine flaming bastard sword stored in a "glove of storing" equivalent (FORM BLAZING SWORD!), tower shield. I rather like the idea of a couple of arm panels blowing off so the ballista can unfold. It's fairly typical in anime for mecha to be usable only by particular people. You might make the mecha respond only to those with a particular dragonmark, which would also explain why they haven't made more. Probably Cannith, and you could limit it further by requiring a Greater Mark of Making. Just Khyber shards, Kid? Khyber crystals bind the power source, Siberys shards run the control system, and Eberron shards power the magical weaponry! This thing is *supposed* to be hideously expensive. :) Now, you could certainly borrow the "slot" rules from d20 Future to decide exactly what weapons it can carry.
Charles Phipps 03-23-05, 06:54 PM	True but if they're found in Xen'drick, how do you justify the best parts in the Gundam on Mobile suit action to make it sound dirty? :-) Perhaps a large supply of them were found by House Cannith in another part of the ruins and brought back? Perhaps Cannith is working on their own knock offs but they already have plenty to use? On a different note, how DO you do war stories like those in Gundam where we find out the war (Great or not) is entirely senseless?
Aubri 03-24-05, 11:50 AM	Oh, I wasn't suggesting finding a complete and ready to fight gundam in Xen'drik--just that it's based on a giant suit of adamantine armor they found there. Remember that Cannith is factionalized at the moment--one faction could build the Gundam while another produces (smaller) knockoffs, but that'd be a serious breach of the Treaty of Thronehold. This kinda ties in with your second question--it suggests the treaty has already fallen apart. Perhaps the mobile suits are based on research that was cancelled when the war ended, and the Gundam is a particularly powerful one based on the aforesaid suit of armor. In a "new war", I'd suggest more Mobile Fortresses and the like, sky forts with multiple elemental rings supporting them, and armed airships. Those fill in the roles of spacecraft like the Peacemillion and Libra from Gundam Wing. A senseless war is usually based on one of a few options: 1) Someone triggered the war for political advantage. Typically this is someone who intends to pick up the pieces later, or who gains an advantage from continued conflict--like arms manufacturers. 2) One of the involved parties wasn't ready to stop fighting and finds the peace has lulled their enemy into a sense of security. This is kind of unlikely in Khorvaire, since everybody's sick of war after 100 years and afraid of another Mourning... (Ooh.. maybe the Mourning was caused by the first Gundam experiments, kinda like the Second Impact in Eva.) 3) An external force instigated the fighting in order to weaken both sides. The Dreaming Dark might pull something like that, for example. A giant suit of armor would be really handy for busting up a Riedran monolith before it can go online and start mind-controlling the citizens. Or maybe it's one of four intended to collect psionic power from the people to generate an inpenetrable shield, and you'll have to fight your way to all four and disable them to bring it down... 4) The war is an invasion from Elsewhere. This kind of war isn't quite so pointless, but it offers the same reasoning Macross used for Valkyries--to fight the enemy on equal terms. If the enemy "mobile suits" are actually armored giants, the Gundam may be the only way to battle them directly. This allows for more than one Gundam, too, so everybody can pilot their own individual, customized mecha. "With the invasion, the Creation Forges were hastily reassembled and activated. But this time, instead of Warforged, they cooperated with Lyrandar and Orien to create a new weapon for the new war: the Mobile Suit. However, each Cannith stronghold also built a powerful custom Mobile Suit intended to act as champion for the forces of Khorvaire..."
Endless_Helix 03-24-05, 02:40 PM	"With the invasion, the Creation Forges were hastily reassembled and activated. But this time, instead of Warforged, they cooperated with Lyrandar and Orien to create a new weapon for the new war: the Mobile Suit. However, each Cannith stronghold also built a powerful custom Mobile Suit intended to act as champion for the forces of Khorvaire..." It depends on how serious the campaign is going to be. If the party is fairly well versed in anime then it's going to be pretty tongue and cheek. The explanation is going to be good enough if they only vaguely know gundam, but if they have some expertise in the matter, you'll have to make it closer to gundam than eberron, which is kind of a problem. Also I was under the impression that only no more warforged could be produced.IIRC The creation forges can produce other stuff with the right schema.
Aubri 03-24-05, 03:12 PM	I think you could make the case that any humanoid coming out of a creation forge is a "warforged". Warforged Titans aren't living constructs, but they're prohibited too! It'd be a pretty hard sell to say they weren't prohibited from building giant robots. I think a party that's well-versed in anime would accept the changes necessary to accomodate Eberron--I do. :) Edit: Oh, I see what you're saying. No, the creation forges were "shut down and destroyed", according to the ECS p. 22.
Charles Phipps 03-24-05, 04:11 PM	Edit: Oh, I see what you're saying. No, the creation forges were "shut down and destroyed", according to the ECS p. 22. Even in pure Eberron, I don't think anyone believes that. Actually, the referene to Robotech gave me an interesting query that might as well be put here as anywhere. What place do Alien Races have in Eberron if any? Will perhaps we discover an ancient race that was the father of the Giants of Xen'drick? Out for our protoculture and Bards!? Revising this thread title for that subject matter we now have * Godzilla and other huge monsters * Giant Anime Robots in general * Aliens and what else? Any suggestions? How about we discuss cybernetics here?
Edymnion 03-24-05, 07:09 PM	Really, when you get right down to it, is there any reason why you can't wear Mithril Full Plate enchanted up with all sorts of nifty things, and just call it a hardsuit? I mean, use existing material where you can here guys. Hardsuit in Anime = A mechanical/scientific exoskeleton type suit of armor that enhances the user's natural strength, speed, and abilities. Often times it has built in weaponry or flight capabilities. Hardsuit in D&D = A suit of armor that covers the user in light flexible mithril plate, enchanted with Bull's Strength and Cat's Grace. Often times it includes a built in Wand Sheath or Wings of Flying. Boom, you've functionally recreated an anime hardsuit using nothing but normal D&D mechanics and rules. The only thing you have to actually change is the flavor and how you roleplay it. And seriously, if I had sat here and statted up Mithril Full Plate, gave it Wings of Flying, a Wand Sheath, and an Eternal Wand of Scorching Ray, how many of you here truely think that you would have immediantly recognized what I had done, as long as I dressed it up with nothing but animesque descriptions?
RadicalTaoist 03-24-05, 08:01 PM	The big problem with making a large robot for military purposes is: is it more cost effective to build big expensive robots that are large and easy targets for magic annihilation, or to research a crazy strong wand/staff/magic weapon that can blow up robots like this and just about anything else all while fitting conspicuously into any artificer's backpack? It's half the reason we don't have combat robots in real life - as of yet, we couldn't build one more cost effective than a bunch of infantrymen with RPGs. Best defense is a good offense, preferably an offense you can equip every third man in your army with. So if we do have these things, they'll need crazy strong antimagic abilities and will probably be something out of eldritch technology capabilities of Cannith and any of the Nations. Xen'drik Giant artifacts it would seem to be. Of course, I'm just enforcing hard realism on a fantasy game, so don't mind me.
Charles Phipps 03-24-05, 08:03 PM	The big problem with making a large robot for military purposes is: is it more cost effective to build big expensive robots that are large and easy targets for magic annihilation, or to research a crazy strong wand/staff/magic weapon that can blow up robots like this and just about anything else all while fitting conspicuously into any artificer's backpack? It's half the reason we don't have combat robots in real life - as of yet, we couldn't build one more cost effective than a bunch of infantrymen with RPGs. Best defense is a good offense, preferably an offense you can equip every third man in your army with. So if we do have these things, they'll need crazy strong antimagic abilities and will probably be something out of eldritch technology capabilities of Cannith and any of the Nations. Xen'drik Giant artifacts it would seem to be. Of course, I'm just enforcing hard realism on a fantasy game, so don't mind me. In D&D, you always have the other side of it. You need robots to be more cost effective? Get pilots with more hit points. Hence the Armor class is much better for cost effectiveness. Its sort of like the Musketeer. Since rapier wielding Musketeers can defeat armies, its much better to just forego canons and develop armies of rapier wielding musketeers going "AIYE! Have at you!" Battlefields degenerate into Wuxia with feathered hats.
Aubri 03-25-05, 09:40 AM	Battlefields degenerate into Wuxia with feathered hats. :rofl: But seriously--in answer to your earlier comment, no, I think the "average joe" feels safe in the knowledge that no more warforged will be produced. Remember that to them, a creation forge is as obscure as the process of microchip production for a non-geek. In any case it's true, except for Merrix's and the LoB's forges... Alien invaders and Big Rubbery Monsters will tend to come from the planes. Though given that we have Khyber and Xen'drik, it wouldn't be unthinkable for a giant monster to simply appear "up from the depths, 30 stories high..." Edymnion is right that you should use what you've got as much as possible, but I think some allowance has to be made for flavor. Giant robots may NOT be realistic, but they're darn fun! I'd personally stay away from cybernetics, though, I think it rather breaks the flavor of Eberron and it's a bit more steampunky than I think you're looking at. Gundam is a very... bright universe, as is Macross--in the sense that, if it weren't for this darn war, everything'd be peachy. Contrast that with something like Blade Runner, where the world is a dark, hostile place even without a war.
lukelightning 03-25-05, 09:58 AM	...just forego canons and develop armies of rapier wielding musketeers... Better yet, canons that fire rapier-wielding musketeers! And after that, the mage-bred war dogs with bees in their mouth so when they bark they shoot bees at you...
Aubri 03-25-05, 10:24 AM	I think it was two musketeers taped together to make one giant musketeer!
Roxlimn 03-25-05, 10:52 AM	Alternatively, you could have a pair of bracers that Polymorphed you into a Warforged and then Enlarged you or Giant Sized you. Possibly, the Bracers also contain components that automatically equip when you polymorph. Aubri: I disagree that the Gundam and the Macross worlds were "bright" even without the war. Even just after Macross was completed, the scheming and politicking was quite rampant. Most of the oppositions forces in many Gundam series became disillusioned and separated. You don't get disillusioned with a peachy situation.