Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Amaril 01-30-08, 09:42 PM	This thread is more of an exercise of ideas rather than any sort of petition for more Eberron Expanded articles. Having said that, if you could pitch an Eberron Expanded article, what non-Eberron D&D books would you cover? Assume that Player's Guide to Eberron didn't cover some of those books either. My choices would be: Heroes of Horror Book of Vile Darkness (kythons as remnant minor fiends altered by the daelkyr) Dragon Magic Races of the Dragon Admittedly, some of the new classes and subsystems have been mentioned in more recent Eberron books (e.g. - dread necromancer in The Forge of War), but there is still a lot of content that could be touched upon, such as the death delver or dread witch (PrCs). I could see the death delver being associated with a non-EC sect of the Blood of Vol and dread witch being associated with hags in Droamm. Spellscales and dragonborn were left out of Dragons of Eberron, but I think they could easily find a place in the world. Anyway, I'm digressing. So, if you could determine which books would get covered, what would you pick, and why?
Syltorian 01-31-08, 06:08 AM	I am doubtful there will be any more Eberron Expanded articles for 3.5 books, what with 4E coming up. But you seem to be aware of that since you mention this is not a petition, so moving on... Tongue-in-cheek, I'd have to say... the Monster Manuals! The "xy in Eberron" have been so derided here on the boards, and with a reason, that we could really do with a better look at them. A bit more work than for other books, obviously, but if Keith ever finds himself without anything to do... :P Seriously, ones I'd like to see are: Fiendish Codex I and II. The cosmology of Eberron is so different that I find it hard to include most things here. But I like those books and the material they contain, so I could really do with some advice on how to adapt things. Elder Evils. Beyond the "Leviathan in Eberron" sidebars. Ideas like: It's a Rakshasa freeing himself I can come up with myself, but I am sure Keith would have many great ideas for alternatives. Dragon Magic. Which you mention too. I'd like to see some ideas how to include such elements into a game where dragons are quite different from your usual fare. Can't comment on Races of the Dragon which I do not own. Heroes of Horror: Not so much for the PrCs as for the variants, the dread and taint rules. The Mournland and the Demon Wastes are logical places for Taint, but there are alternatives, too. Places where (or times when) Mabar touches Eberron, haunted fields of war, etc.
Amaril 01-31-08, 10:08 AM	I am doubtful there will be any more Eberron Expanded articles for 3.5 books, what with 4E coming up. But you seem to be aware of that since you mention this is not a petition, so moving on... Yeah, I don't expect any additional Eberron Expanded articles although I think with the closing of 3.5, WotC could tap into two markets with such articles: the 3.5 fans and the 4e adopters. Publishing articles and resources that summarize or contribute to 3.5 materials as well as present synergies among various books (e.g. - infusion index, psionic power index, Eberron Expanded articles, additional dragonshards (see my signature), etc.) along with new 4e material benefits both markets rather than leaving 3.5 adherents in the cold and with no purpose for visiting the site. In fact, rather than simply publishing 4e marketing content between now and June, WotC could at least offer some solace to the 3.5 fans by publishing such articles and resources. I can only assume that there are freelancers available for writing articles who are sitting on their hands waiting for 4e work. Having said all that, I have no expectations of ever actually seeing more 3.5 Eberron Expanded articles. Tongue-in-cheek, I'd have to say... the Monster Manuals! The "xy in Eberron" have been so derided here on the boards, and with a reason, that we could really do with a better look at them. A bit more work than for other books, obviously, but if Keith ever finds himself without anything to do... :P For some reason, this is one of the few things I tend to feel indifferent about. I actually like coming up with my own adaptations for using such monsters. I feel a greater sense of creativity on my part as a DM. Fiendish Codex I and II. The cosmology of Eberron is so different that I find it hard to include most things here. But I like those books and the material they contain, so I could really do with some advice on how to adapt things. Elder Evils. Beyond the "Leviathan in Eberron" sidebars. Ideas like: It's a Rakshasa freeing himself I can come up with myself, but I am sure Keith would have many great ideas for alternatives. Dragon Magic. Which you mention too. I'd like to see some ideas how to include such elements into a game where dragons are quite different from your usual fare. Can't comment on Races of the Dragon which I do not own. Heroes of Horror: Not so much for the PrCs as for the variants, the dread and taint rules. The Mournland and the Demon Wastes are logical places for Taint, but there are alternatives, too. Places where (or times when) Mabar touches Eberron, haunted fields of war, etc.You know, if I were still playing Greyhawk, I'd eat up those Fiendish Codex books, but running an Eberron campaign renders most of the content useless. Elder Evils seems interesting, but I haven't even read it. I was into the "end your campaign and destroy your world because 4e is coming" idea. If I want a cataclysmic event, in any setting, I can use something out of the setting itself. After reading Dragons of Eberron, I found Io'Lokar to be the ideal location to easily wedge in most of the content from Dragon Magic, but it seemed to pidgeon hole it rather than make it readily accessible. If I ran a draconic campaign that originated in that city, it works fine. Then again, I think that book assumes that one would be running a draconic campaign most likely. You're right about heroes of horror. PGtE mentions taint in those two locations, but the manifest zones or periods of coterminous planes really offers even more opportunities. Thinking about this topic more, I think the more recent Eberron books have done a decent job of filling the gap for Eberron Expanded. I'm recalling sections in The Forge of War as well as in Dragons of Eberron that reference other books.
Syltorian 01-31-08, 10:37 AM	Publishing articles and resources that summarize or contribute to 3.5 materials as well as present synergies among various books (e.g. - infusion index, psionic power index, Eberron Expanded articles, additional dragonshards (see my signature), etc.) along with new 4e material benefits both markets rather than leaving 3.5 adherents in the cold and with no purpose for visiting the site. True, but it seems as though WotC has decided that 3.5 is a waste of resources. That is more or less what they said in the Editorial to one of their online dragon magazines. It's not an attitude I like, but one I grudgingly see some sense in. From their point of view, it would be better to commission Keith Baker to put out the new 4e Kalashtar to stop Eberron players from putting off 4e until 2009, rather than support Races of Dragon which will be supplanted by the new Dragonborn anyway, come 4e. But I agree that it would be nice if they did something for the 3.5 folk. Considering that I am not keen on 4e myself and visit the site only in the hope of Eberron material. As it is, WotC doesn't go in for solace to 3.5 fans. Simply for showing them how misguided they are to be cautious or hostile to the shiny new edition. But let's not turn this into yet another gripe about 4e. Back to the topic: For some reason, this is one of the few things I tend to feel indifferent about. I actually like coming up with my own adaptations for using such monsters. I feel a greater sense of creativity on my part as a DM. I agree - but I generally have that feeling with all the rules material. PrCs and spells as well as monsters. The Eberron Expanded articles very rarely say how something is; rather, they give suggestions. That's how I have read them so far, at any rate. So I do not see too much of a difference between Keith having a good idea on how to fit, say, a Ruin Chanter into a campaign and his explanations how to fit Legendary Leader from the Eberron Expanded: Heroes of Battle in. You know, if I were still playing Greyhawk, I'd eat up those Fiendish Codex books, but running an Eberron campaign renders most of the content useless. Exactly; but that makes a "conversion" perhaps more necessary or interesting. There are definitely elements that could be used. Layers of the Abyss could be anything from manifest zones or other special locations on Eberron to a description of a place on Risia or Mabar. There is no soul-harvesting pact in Eberron as such, but there could be options for one to be there: some Dollurh inhabitants having found a way to grow powerful on souls, if only a tiny portion? A human/giant/qabalrin experiment? Perhaps it involves Khyber Shards somewhere, and enough souls can raise a Rajah. Just brainstorming here... but things could certainly be done. With lots of work, of course. Elder Evils seems interesting, but I haven't even read it. I was into the "end your campaign and destroy your world because 4e is coming" idea. If I want a cataclysmic event, in any setting, I can use something out of the setting itself. Yeah, the "end your campaign because of 4e" is quite clear in that book, and I don't actually like the idea of destroying my campaign world. But I like the idea of signs. Players can always stop the Elder Evil before it fully manifests - one thing I didn't like about EE is that its campaign style is somewhat railroading. Whatever the PCs do, the EE will rise at the end; at least, if you follow everything through. But I like the Signs, and the Elder Evils themselves would do great as Rajahs... After reading Dragons of Eberron, I found Io'Lokar to be the ideal location to easily wedge in most of the content from Dragon Magic, but it seemed to pidgeon hole it rather than make it readily accessible. If I ran a draconic campaign that originated in that city, it works fine. Then again, I think that book assumes that one would be running a draconic campaign most likely. I admit I did not like Io'Lokar, but that's just me. I found some interesting bits in Dragon Magic could be placed in communities that have some contact with dragons: The Serens, and, to a lesser extent, some Drow cultures on Xen'drik that serve dragons, or devotees of the Storm Guardians of Adar. Io'Lokar, even if you like it, is something you will not get to until quite high level, and before that, it might as well not exist since nobody has heard of it (outside of Argonessen, at least). Thinking about this topic more, I think the more recent Eberron books have done a decent job of filling the gap for Eberron Expanded. I'm recalling sections in The Forge of War as well as in Dragons of Eberron that reference other books. True. Secrets of Sarlona has some bits too, as do those books you have mentioned. City of Stormreach might well have some more. I hope future Eberron books/articles will also draw on such material, even if they have to offer a sidebar to convert it to 4e. Except that there will be no Eberron supplement between City of Stormreach and the ECS 4e, that I know of at least. Well, let's hope the new Valenar articles say more about Dragon Mag than the previous publicity for 4e...
kelvinaw273 01-31-08, 11:17 AM	The obvious ones to include are the Psionics books, XPH and Complete Psionic. Eberron Player's Guide fits the extra races from these into the Eberron context quite well, as well as the variant base classes from the Complete series and some of the details from the 'terrain' source books. I am wary about adding 'draconic' races into Eberron - remember that most dragons regard half-dragons as abominations, thanks to Vol.
Syltorian 01-31-08, 12:39 PM	The obvious ones to include are the Psionics books, XPH and Complete Psionic. Eberron Expaned: Complete Psionic (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebee/20061023a)
Amaril 01-31-08, 01:58 PM	Exactly; but that makes a "conversion" perhaps more necessary or interesting. There are definitely elements that could be used. Layers of the Abyss could be anything from manifest zones or other special locations on Eberron to a description of a place on Risia or Mabar. There is no soul-harvesting pact in Eberron as such, but there could be options for one to be there: some Dollurh inhabitants having found a way to grow powerful on souls, if only a tiny portion? A human/giant/qabalrin experiment? Perhaps it involves Khyber Shards somewhere, and enough souls can raise a Rajah. Just brainstorming here... but things could certainly be done. With lots of work, of course. You know, the planes of Eberron haven't been covered yet, and I could easily see the conflicts in the Abyss taking place in Shavarath. Those "layers" could simply be regions within Shavarath, although that plane is described as a barren plains. It is also described as devils vs. demons vs. archons, which doesn't seem to allow much for demons vs. demons. I admit I did not like Io'Lokar, but that's just me. I found some interesting bits in Dragon Magic could be placed in communities that have some contact with dragons: The Serens, and, to a lesser extent, some Drow cultures on Xen'drik that serve dragons, or devotees of the Storm Guardians of Adar. Io'Lokar, even if you like it, is something you will not get to until quite high level, and before that, it might as well not exist since nobody has heard of it (outside of Argonessen, at least). I know what you mean about Io'Lokar. I feel the same way. It's cool, but of limited use. Still, the rogue dragons are out there, and they influence pockets of civilization either directly or indirectly. The dragonblooded humanoids could fit in, but dragonblooded elves wouldn't stand a chance. Actually, I'm not sure about dragonblooded anything having any survivability rate, even with the coolness of silverbrow humans living in Sharn or other cities. The classes, prestige classes, and monsters are still fitting. Heck, I replaced the canoloths in Eyes of the Lich Queen with blazewyrms (fitting for that room, and their tumbling flight makes the room an even greater challenge) and the half-dragon mummy with an abyssal drake (Draconomicon) that is summoned similarly. You should definitely check out some of the PrCs in Races of the Dragon; the dracolexi in particular is interesting if you pair them with the prophecy marks (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20071008a). In the past, the symbols that appeared on the earth were called dragonmarks. These days, they are usually called Prophecy marks. The design of these marks is quite similar to those found on flesh, but every mark is different; each line has meaning to one who knows how to read them. If a character who speaks Draconic makes a DC 30 Spellcraft check, she gains a hint about the meaning of a mark, to a maximum of five words. For example, she might recognize the concepts of "king," "victory," and "moving stone." Although interesting, this hint rarely provides full meaning, and might actually be misleading. A small Prophecy mark might be the size of a human fist. The largest marks are so big that they can be seen properly only from a great height. All marks radiate a strong aura of universal magic and occasionally shimmer with a blue-green radiance similar to the color of dragonmarks. Prophecy marks slowly repair themselves if damaged. It's possible to remove a small mark whole, but if a mark is simply damaged, it eventually re-forms. The true nature of Prophecy marks is as mysterious as the Prophecy itself. In Xen'drik, explorers have found eldritch machines from the Age of Giants that seem to use Prophecy marks as a source of power, and many forces in Khorvaire -- notably House Cannith, the Twelve, and the elemental binders of Zilargo -- are working to unlock this secret. True. Secrets of Sarlona has some bits too, as do those books you have mentioned. City of Stormreach might well have some more. I hope future Eberron books/articles will also draw on such material, even if they have to offer a sidebar to convert it to 4e. Except that there will be no Eberron supplement between City of Stormreach and the ECS 4e, that I know of at least. Well, let's hope the new Valenar articles say more about Dragon Mag than the previous publicity for 4e...Or the Planes of Eberron articles being requested. ;)
Amaril 03-14-08, 04:39 PM	:bump: Any other throughts or ideas?
davethebrave371 03-17-08, 02:13 PM	I'd like to see one Eberron Expanded (or maybe a two-parter) on Draconomicon, Dragon Magic and Races of the Dragon. I'd also like to see one on Tome of Battle, and another on Magic of Incarnum. Thing is, I doubt they're going to get released now, because for whatever retarded reason, the DDI staff are still sitting on all of KB's old Dragonshards/Eberron Expanded articles. If they want to make the Dragonshards into 4e content, fine, but the EE ones should have been in the first two issues of digital Dragon, if you ask me, or even just released on the website. Come on.
Amaril 03-17-08, 02:38 PM	Thing is, I doubt they're going to get released now, because for whatever retarded reason, the DDI staff are still sitting on all of KB's old Dragonshards/Eberron Expanded articles. If they want to make the Dragonshards into 4e content, fine, but the EE ones should have been in the first two issues of digital Dragon, if you ask me, or even just released on the website. Come on.I share your frustration. We can always beg. :P
davethebrave371 03-17-08, 02:48 PM	Maybe a letter to the editor? A request for the EE articles on the DDI boards, perhaps?
davethebrave371 03-17-08, 02:55 PM	Man, 2006 seems so long ago. http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-457073 And 2005 does too. http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-402806
Amaril 03-17-08, 03:01 PM	Maybe a letter to the editor? A request for the EE articles on the DDI boards, perhaps? Try starting a campaign. Let's see if we can get WotC to release those articles. It might be hard to convince them seeing as they are scheduling for the Planes of Eberron series, but they might always need more material to fluff out DDI. Unfortunately, DDI is supposedly switching to 4e only. Still, I don't think WotC should consider it to be implausible to release prewritten 3e material for the sake of completing 3.x support for those who don't plan on switching. In fact, one could argue that it could help to finish off sales of some of their later supplements.
davethebrave371 03-18-08, 12:27 PM	Try starting a campaign. Let's see if we can get WotC to release those articles. It might be hard to convince them seeing as they are scheduling for the Planes of Eberron series, but they might always need more material to fluff out DDI. Unfortunately, DDI is supposedly switching to 4e only. Still, I don't think WotC should consider it to be implausible to release prewritten 3e material for the sake of completing 3.x support for those who don't plan on switching. In fact, one could argue that it could help to finish off sales of some of their later supplements. No argument there.
Amaril 03-18-08, 01:15 PM	Thinking about it more, it wouldn't be bad for WotC to schedule some finalizing support -- beyond errata -- for v3.5. Specifically, I have issues with the following: The Consolidated Lists haven't been updated. A psionic powers index would be useful, too. Inclusion of preprequisites in the Feat Index would make the index actually useful. Spells Index needs to include spells beyond just PH and SpC, particularly spells published after the SpC. Keith's articles are still left on the backburner.
Syltorian 03-18-08, 03:41 PM	I'd dearly like to see WotC address all these points, Amaril. However, I fear that they consider 3.5 as dead and buried. Why would they put any effort in there? It does not help their sales, and might actually harm them by encouraging people to stay with 3.5 and ignore 4E. Especially considering that, to get the lists in 4E, you have to hand them your money. I don't see why they refuse/omit to publish the Eberron Expanded articles, as they have already been written (then again, I have never understood the arcana of WotC's website policy), but the consolidated lists could involve a lot of effort.