More Gnomes in Breland than Zilargo [Archive] - Wizards Community

More Gnomes in Breland than Zilargo [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
cbolt_toak
10-10-04, 06:19 PM Approximately 150,000 Gnomes live in Zilargo.
Approximately 518,000 Gnomes live in Breland.

...:confused:

When one of the people getting ready to play an Ebberron Campaign asked me "Where would a gnome be from?" I was about to say "Zilargo" but then I stopped, cause there are 3x more gnomes in Breland.

Just a guess, but I suppose alot of the gnomes in Breland live in towns like Zilspar and Starilaskur (Breland cities that are easily traveled to from Zilargo.)

Well, in the end I let them pick, and they chose Breland...:nonono:

Just something to note about them, But as far as I know the other races are more proportionately correct (At least there are more Dwarves in Mror Holds than in Breland or Karrnath, but not by much)
EvilDrPuma
10-10-04, 06:41 PM I can understand why it would seem odd that the gnome population of Breland (also of Aundair, by the way) is larger than that of Zilargo, but there are ways for the numbers to make sense. If Zilargo's politics and social mobility are as cutthroat as the ECS indicates, there might well have been quite an exodus over the centuries by gnomes who didn't have the political savvy or the right dirt on their competitors to make their name at home. Gnome shipwrights, scholars and alchemists may be very welcome in either Breland or Aundair, and might be able to make more of a niche for themselves on raw merit than they could in Zilargo.
Edymnion
10-10-04, 06:43 PM Also, as a real life example, there are more Jews in New York City than there are in Isreal. Like, six times more.
cbolt_toak
10-10-04, 06:56 PM Lol, you're right, Aundair too. Jeez, he probably would of chosen that one if it was an option.

Zilargo has problems? Other than the Trust's work to maintain order and gain knowledge, and the Aurum's work to infiltrate it, I didn't read about anything awry in Zilargo politics. What page was that on?

Oh, but I see what you mean businesswise, urban culture is stronger in those countries than Zilargo, and gnomes make good middle-class workers. Zilargo is more of an elitist nation of gnomes, so I will have to tell my group about that.
lugnut71
10-10-04, 08:22 PM France has the highest concentration of Muslims in the world.
Edymnion
10-10-04, 08:27 PM Yeah, so basically, its not uncommon for there to be large populations of any particular group in a place other than their original homeland.
ImmortalBlueMage
10-10-04, 08:48 PM Well of course Breland has more Gnomes than Zilargo. It has more EVERYTHING than Zilargo, Breland is 15 times Zilargo's size! The thing about Zilargo is that it has the highest percentage of Gnomes.
cbolt_toak
10-10-04, 10:08 PM Never realized Zilargo was a threatened territory, just a neutral nation of mediocre corruption and decent industrial development. I was planning on having alot of my Eberron Campaigns start there, but all this hype about Zilargo having gnome refugees is making me rethink that.

What's so bloody dangerous about Zilargo?
Splendide
10-10-04, 10:47 PM Nothing is particularly dangerous about Zilargo? Its just that there are many good opportunities elsewhere.

I mean really, who hates gnomes? Anyone? They are the masters of avoiding petty disputes; it makes sense that they would be one of the best integrating races.

If the Irish had all stayed in Ireland, then the USA would have about half its population (yes, I know thats a flawed comment).
Torillan
10-11-04, 10:34 AM What's so bloody dangerous about Zilargo?

Well, besides the fact that a not-so-stable region sits just to the east of the country, then not much, I guess. ;) Hell, if you throw a rock from the walls of Korranberg, you'd practically be launching a "missle strike" into Darguun!!

Seriously, Darguun is not really a cohesive country, meaning that the many warlords and other groups there could be a threat to Zilargo, which I see as not very aggressive about its military.

Just an observation.
ENHenry
10-11-04, 11:22 AM What's so bloody dangerous about Zilargo?

Well, if you don't mind living with the ****ing ILLUMINATI watching your every move, it's not that bad. Read the sections on "The Trust" in the Zilargo entry. :)
Just another user
10-11-04, 03:16 PM Well of course Breland has more Gnomes than Zilargo. It has more EVERYTHING than Zilargo, Breland is 15 times Zilargo's size! The thing about Zilargo is that it has the highest percentage of Gnomes.

Exactly and is not like all those gnomes are first generation brelish (brelander?). probaly some of those gnomish families are in Breland from before the Last War and more, but unlike nationality race don't change with the generations.
Brastan
10-11-04, 03:36 PM It seems like gnomes are more common in the western portion of Khorvaire. Because Zilargo is just a small portion of that region it only has a small portion of the total. Although they are probably some very long standing (and big) gnome clans. No wonder the Trust can control things the way it does. They don't have to go very far to find a family member who will know the person in question. Outsiders would be spotted immediately (+4 base to spot check vs. disguise)
m15a
10-11-04, 04:18 PM France has the highest concentration of Muslims in the world.

that's surprising. more muslims per area, that is? . . more than indonesia? more than bangladesh!?!?

wait a second . . .

"Bangladesh is one of the world’s ten most populated countries and has one of the highest population densities (about 2,100 people per sq mi/810 people per sq km) . . . About 88% of the population is Sunni Muslim . . . " (http://www.bartleby.com/65/ba/Banglade.html)

is it that a certain region of france, like, a district in a city has the highest concentration of muslims? still an interesting fact, i guess . . .

i think what was meant is that france has the highest concentration of muslims in europe.
Korhal IV
10-11-04, 05:35 PM France's population is about 4% Muslim, edging towards 5%. About the same as the USA.

I think Breland's large population of gnomes would be a chief reason why that nation and Zilargo are so close, which only encourages more immigration to and from. Zilargo is a small, urbanized nation, while Breland is a much larger and not quite as urbanized nation, so real estate is cheaper, food is more easily available, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see lots of gnomes moving from Zilargo. Gnomish nobles might maintain Brelish estates, and so forth.
Alexius D'Cannith
10-11-04, 06:39 PM i imagine the trust is using breland migration to try and gain a measure of influence and control in Breland, probably aiming at getting deep hooks into sharn first (only 800 miles from Trolanport and linked by a ditect road)

I imagine those gnomes who have problems with the trust (illuiminati is an accurate analogy) moved to Aundair to try and get away from their influence, as for Eastern migration, hostile natives (Goblins of Darguun, Elves of Valenar, Halflings of Talenta, Lizards of Q'Barra) provide obstacles to setlement as would having the MOURNLANDS in between
Splendide
10-11-04, 09:04 PM The Trust doesn't seem to me to be a particularly structured organisation...I doubt they have any real motivations beyond the protection of the Zil, whatever that may require.
cbolt_toak
10-11-04, 11:05 PM :) I make a comment about population density effecting average character choices and you guys talk about demographic variations concerning political views and geographical balance. Sigh. I just needed a good history for a Gnome character from Breland or Aundair instead of Zilargo (I am a character creator). But hey, information like this may help, so continue.
lugnut71
10-12-04, 12:26 AM that's surprising. more muslims per area, that is? . . more than indonesia? more than bangladesh!?!?

wait a second . . .

"Bangladesh is one of the world’s ten most populated countries and has one of the highest population densities (about 2,100 people per sq mi/810 people per sq km) . . . About 88% of the population is Sunni Muslim . . . " (http://www.bartleby.com/65/ba/Banglade.html)

is it that a certain region of france, like, a district in a city has the highest concentration of muslims? still an interesting fact, i guess . . .

i think what was meant is that france has the highest concentration of muslims in europe.

Actually I think my statistic is wrong Paris has the highest concentration of muslims of any city in the world. I should look it up and verify it but I think that might be it.
Splendide
10-12-04, 12:41 AM :) I make a comment about population density effecting average character choices and you guys talk about demographic variations concerning political views and geographical balance. Sigh. I just needed a good history for a Gnome character from Breland or Aundair instead of Zilargo (I am a character creator). But hey, information like this may help, so continue.Well, you'd think there'd be several excellent reasons for a gnome to be from Sharn. Bards like regular audiences - Sharn is big enough that if you're good enough you could work the circuit in Sharn alone and be able to live off that - no travel required. Also, since the destruction of Cyre, it would seem to be a major centre of magical industry.

Dragonmarked members of house Sivis are everywhere...as the background of the communications industry, you don't need any special background to place these characters anywhere.

Similarly, with gnomes are pretty good shipwrights, you've got another reason to have them in any coastal town.

As the gnomes have such a tendency towards social interaction, it wouldn't be out of place to have gnomish courtiers and scholars in pretty much any capital city in Khorvaire.

No-one of the `civilised races' hates gnomes, so gnomes can go anywhere.
Perun
10-12-04, 03:06 AM If I remember correctly, Zilargo was a part of Breland before the Last War. You could develop on that. For example, when Zilargo declared independence from Breland, the Brelish crown gave them only so much land, and as a result a large number of gnomes found themselves on the other side of the newly-established border. Fortunately, Breland and Zilargo always had good relations, so this wasn't much of a problem. I'd simply place the majority of the Brelish gnomes in the region near to the Breland-Zilargo border. Ther emight even be a gnome political party, found both in Breland and Zilargo, that wants a referendum to be held, so that the Brelish gnomes in border area could decide whether they want to become a part of Zilargo, or remain in Breland. Might be a whole campaign hook hidden in there, especially for an intrigue-loving party. Similar things have happened in the real world (just as examples, Trst/Trieste area (now in Italy) after the WWII; Gradisce/Burgenland at the Austria/Hungary border after WWI).

Regards!
The White Sorcerer
10-12-04, 04:51 AM If I remember correctly, Zilargo was a part of Breland before the Last War.

If I remember correctly, Zilargo has always been independent, even in the days of Dhakaan. I could be wrong, though.
Splendide
10-12-04, 05:49 AM Nah, Zilargo surrendered to Breland in Denmark fashion, remaining mostly autonomous under their reign. Then they made the split official again.
Xeraph
10-12-04, 01:38 PM So typical of a Gnome.. So typical of a Dane... (I myself is from Denmark, why face doom when you can gain power ;) or be used :( ... hrm hrm, we value human lives! :confused: or whatever... )

But this doesn't mean that there's 18 million Danes in Germany, compared to the 6 million living in Denmark (close enough)...
And for the Muslim and Jew thing, well, thats religion... not culture. I agree with the critizisers (sp) on this one... the population numbers is a bit unbalanced in most of Eberron.
I only know of one resemblance in the "real world" and that doesnt even hold... Berlin is Turkie's (sp) population wise, second largest city. But still, there MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more turks in Turkey than there is in Germany.
Please dont hold me resposible for false numbers, they are nealry right, and im simply trying to prove a point. :)
cbolt_toak
10-12-04, 04:48 PM Shush...We aren't supposed to know that the Eberron Campaign Setting reflects the history of World Wars I and II.

The less we know...the more they sell. :devil:

Well, that was something I was thinking too, that alot of the gnomes were displaced. But I'll just wait for the assessory on Breland when it comes to that.

The Gnome Bard I made for Game Day (And from there the other adventures, I coincided my group's introduction to the Eberron Campaign Setting with the Game Day) lived as a child and learned the musical talents in Zilargo, but will leave on ship to Sharn near the beginning of the Campaign Setting (998...right?) in the hopes of being a famous entertainer.

We're a group that puts more emphasis on roleplaying and mechanical play, so I am working on character histories right now. Luckily, none of my group reads the message boards or owns books (Besides the PHB, which I make owning one mandatory to play) so I can start us off in Eberron with minimal metaplaying.

One thing did interest me, the Gnomes in Aundair. I haven't reviewed the history of Eberron throughly yet, but those gnomes seem a little too displaced, unless gnomes have lived throughout central Khovaire for a long time, but most anciently in the Zilargo region, though I can see why relatively few live in Thrane, Thrane's a crazy place, and I can see Gnomes fleeing in droves from there. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
cbolt_toak 10-10-04, 06:19 PM	Approximately 150,000 Gnomes live in Zilargo. Approximately 518,000 Gnomes live in Breland. ...:confused: When one of the people getting ready to play an Ebberron Campaign asked me "Where would a gnome be from?" I was about to say "Zilargo" but then I stopped, cause there are 3x more gnomes in Breland. Just a guess, but I suppose alot of the gnomes in Breland live in towns like Zilspar and Starilaskur (Breland cities that are easily traveled to from Zilargo.) Well, in the end I let them pick, and they chose Breland...:nonono: Just something to note about them, But as far as I know the other races are more proportionately correct (At least there are more Dwarves in Mror Holds than in Breland or Karrnath, but not by much)
EvilDrPuma 10-10-04, 06:41 PM	I can understand why it would seem odd that the gnome population of Breland (also of Aundair, by the way) is larger than that of Zilargo, but there are ways for the numbers to make sense. If Zilargo's politics and social mobility are as cutthroat as the ECS indicates, there might well have been quite an exodus over the centuries by gnomes who didn't have the political savvy or the right dirt on their competitors to make their name at home. Gnome shipwrights, scholars and alchemists may be very welcome in either Breland or Aundair, and might be able to make more of a niche for themselves on raw merit than they could in Zilargo.
Edymnion 10-10-04, 06:43 PM	Also, as a real life example, there are more Jews in New York City than there are in Isreal. Like, six times more.
cbolt_toak 10-10-04, 06:56 PM	Lol, you're right, Aundair too. Jeez, he probably would of chosen that one if it was an option. Zilargo has problems? Other than the Trust's work to maintain order and gain knowledge, and the Aurum's work to infiltrate it, I didn't read about anything awry in Zilargo politics. What page was that on? Oh, but I see what you mean businesswise, urban culture is stronger in those countries than Zilargo, and gnomes make good middle-class workers. Zilargo is more of an elitist nation of gnomes, so I will have to tell my group about that.
lugnut71 10-10-04, 08:22 PM	France has the highest concentration of Muslims in the world.
Edymnion 10-10-04, 08:27 PM	Yeah, so basically, its not uncommon for there to be large populations of any particular group in a place other than their original homeland.
ImmortalBlueMage 10-10-04, 08:48 PM	Well of course Breland has more Gnomes than Zilargo. It has more EVERYTHING than Zilargo, Breland is 15 times Zilargo's size! The thing about Zilargo is that it has the highest percentage of Gnomes.
cbolt_toak 10-10-04, 10:08 PM	Never realized Zilargo was a threatened territory, just a neutral nation of mediocre corruption and decent industrial development. I was planning on having alot of my Eberron Campaigns start there, but all this hype about Zilargo having gnome refugees is making me rethink that. What's so bloody dangerous about Zilargo?
Splendide 10-10-04, 10:47 PM	Nothing is particularly dangerous about Zilargo? Its just that there are many good opportunities elsewhere. I mean really, who hates gnomes? Anyone? They are the masters of avoiding petty disputes; it makes sense that they would be one of the best integrating races. If the Irish had all stayed in Ireland, then the USA would have about half its population (yes, I know thats a flawed comment).
Torillan 10-11-04, 10:34 AM	What's so bloody dangerous about Zilargo? Well, besides the fact that a not-so-stable region sits just to the east of the country, then not much, I guess. ;) Hell, if you throw a rock from the walls of Korranberg, you'd practically be launching a "missle strike" into Darguun!! Seriously, Darguun is not really a cohesive country, meaning that the many warlords and other groups there could be a threat to Zilargo, which I see as not very aggressive about its military. Just an observation.
ENHenry 10-11-04, 11:22 AM	What's so bloody dangerous about Zilargo? Well, if you don't mind living with the ****ing ILLUMINATI watching your every move, it's not that bad. Read the sections on "The Trust" in the Zilargo entry. :)
Just another user 10-11-04, 03:16 PM	Well of course Breland has more Gnomes than Zilargo. It has more EVERYTHING than Zilargo, Breland is 15 times Zilargo's size! The thing about Zilargo is that it has the highest percentage of Gnomes. Exactly and is not like all those gnomes are first generation brelish (brelander?). probaly some of those gnomish families are in Breland from before the Last War and more, but unlike nationality race don't change with the generations.
Brastan 10-11-04, 03:36 PM	It seems like gnomes are more common in the western portion of Khorvaire. Because Zilargo is just a small portion of that region it only has a small portion of the total. Although they are probably some very long standing (and big) gnome clans. No wonder the Trust can control things the way it does. They don't have to go very far to find a family member who will know the person in question. Outsiders would be spotted immediately (+4 base to spot check vs. disguise)
m15a 10-11-04, 04:18 PM	France has the highest concentration of Muslims in the world. that's surprising. more muslims per area, that is? . . more than indonesia? more than bangladesh!?!? wait a second . . . "Bangladesh is one of the world’s ten most populated countries and has one of the highest population densities (about 2,100 people per sq mi/810 people per sq km) . . . About 88% of the population is Sunni Muslim . . . " (http://www.bartleby.com/65/ba/Banglade.html) is it that a certain region of france, like, a district in a city has the highest concentration of muslims? still an interesting fact, i guess . . . i think what was meant is that france has the highest concentration of muslims in europe.
Korhal IV 10-11-04, 05:35 PM	France's population is about 4% Muslim, edging towards 5%. About the same as the USA. I think Breland's large population of gnomes would be a chief reason why that nation and Zilargo are so close, which only encourages more immigration to and from. Zilargo is a small, urbanized nation, while Breland is a much larger and not quite as urbanized nation, so real estate is cheaper, food is more easily available, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see lots of gnomes moving from Zilargo. Gnomish nobles might maintain Brelish estates, and so forth.
Alexius D'Cannith 10-11-04, 06:39 PM	i imagine the trust is using breland migration to try and gain a measure of influence and control in Breland, probably aiming at getting deep hooks into sharn first (only 800 miles from Trolanport and linked by a ditect road) I imagine those gnomes who have problems with the trust (illuiminati is an accurate analogy) moved to Aundair to try and get away from their influence, as for Eastern migration, hostile natives (Goblins of Darguun, Elves of Valenar, Halflings of Talenta, Lizards of Q'Barra) provide obstacles to setlement as would having the MOURNLANDS in between
Splendide 10-11-04, 09:04 PM	The Trust doesn't seem to me to be a particularly structured organisation...I doubt they have any real motivations beyond the protection of the Zil, whatever that may require.
cbolt_toak 10-11-04, 11:05 PM	:) I make a comment about population density effecting average character choices and you guys talk about demographic variations concerning political views and geographical balance. Sigh. I just needed a good history for a Gnome character from Breland or Aundair instead of Zilargo (I am a character creator). But hey, information like this may help, so continue.
lugnut71 10-12-04, 12:26 AM	that's surprising. more muslims per area, that is? . . more than indonesia? more than bangladesh!?!? wait a second . . . "Bangladesh is one of the world’s ten most populated countries and has one of the highest population densities (about 2,100 people per sq mi/810 people per sq km) . . . About 88% of the population is Sunni Muslim . . . " (http://www.bartleby.com/65/ba/Banglade.html) is it that a certain region of france, like, a district in a city has the highest concentration of muslims? still an interesting fact, i guess . . . i think what was meant is that france has the highest concentration of muslims in europe. Actually I think my statistic is wrong Paris has the highest concentration of muslims of any city in the world. I should look it up and verify it but I think that might be it.
Splendide 10-12-04, 12:41 AM	:) I make a comment about population density effecting average character choices and you guys talk about demographic variations concerning political views and geographical balance. Sigh. I just needed a good history for a Gnome character from Breland or Aundair instead of Zilargo (I am a character creator). But hey, information like this may help, so continue.Well, you'd think there'd be several excellent reasons for a gnome to be from Sharn. Bards like regular audiences - Sharn is big enough that if you're good enough you could work the circuit in Sharn alone and be able to live off that - no travel required. Also, since the destruction of Cyre, it would seem to be a major centre of magical industry. Dragonmarked members of house Sivis are everywhere...as the background of the communications industry, you don't need any special background to place these characters anywhere. Similarly, with gnomes are pretty good shipwrights, you've got another reason to have them in any coastal town. As the gnomes have such a tendency towards social interaction, it wouldn't be out of place to have gnomish courtiers and scholars in pretty much any capital city in Khorvaire. No-one of the `civilised races' hates gnomes, so gnomes can go anywhere.
Perun 10-12-04, 03:06 AM	If I remember correctly, Zilargo was a part of Breland before the Last War. You could develop on that. For example, when Zilargo declared independence from Breland, the Brelish crown gave them only so much land, and as a result a large number of gnomes found themselves on the other side of the newly-established border. Fortunately, Breland and Zilargo always had good relations, so this wasn't much of a problem. I'd simply place the majority of the Brelish gnomes in the region near to the Breland-Zilargo border. Ther emight even be a gnome political party, found both in Breland and Zilargo, that wants a referendum to be held, so that the Brelish gnomes in border area could decide whether they want to become a part of Zilargo, or remain in Breland. Might be a whole campaign hook hidden in there, especially for an intrigue-loving party. Similar things have happened in the real world (just as examples, Trst/Trieste area (now in Italy) after the WWII; Gradisce/Burgenland at the Austria/Hungary border after WWI). Regards!
The White Sorcerer 10-12-04, 04:51 AM	If I remember correctly, Zilargo was a part of Breland before the Last War. If I remember correctly, Zilargo has always been independent, even in the days of Dhakaan. I could be wrong, though.
Splendide 10-12-04, 05:49 AM	Nah, Zilargo surrendered to Breland in Denmark fashion, remaining mostly autonomous under their reign. Then they made the split official again.
Xeraph 10-12-04, 01:38 PM	So typical of a Gnome.. So typical of a Dane... (I myself is from Denmark, why face doom when you can gain power ;) or be used :( ... hrm hrm, we value human lives! :confused: or whatever... ) But this doesn't mean that there's 18 million Danes in Germany, compared to the 6 million living in Denmark (close enough)... And for the Muslim and Jew thing, well, thats religion... not culture. I agree with the critizisers (sp) on this one... the population numbers is a bit unbalanced in most of Eberron. I only know of one resemblance in the "real world" and that doesnt even hold... Berlin is Turkie's (sp) population wise, second largest city. But still, there MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more turks in Turkey than there is in Germany. Please dont hold me resposible for false numbers, they are nealry right, and im simply trying to prove a point. :)
cbolt_toak 10-12-04, 04:48 PM	Shush...We aren't supposed to know that the Eberron Campaign Setting reflects the history of World Wars I and II. The less we know...the more they sell. :devil: Well, that was something I was thinking too, that alot of the gnomes were displaced. But I'll just wait for the assessory on Breland when it comes to that. The Gnome Bard I made for Game Day (And from there the other adventures, I coincided my group's introduction to the Eberron Campaign Setting with the Game Day) lived as a child and learned the musical talents in Zilargo, but will leave on ship to Sharn near the beginning of the Campaign Setting (998...right?) in the hopes of being a famous entertainer. We're a group that puts more emphasis on roleplaying and mechanical play, so I am working on character histories right now. Luckily, none of my group reads the message boards or owns books (Besides the PHB, which I make owning one mandatory to play) so I can start us off in Eberron with minimal metaplaying. One thing did interest me, the Gnomes in Aundair. I haven't reviewed the history of Eberron throughly yet, but those gnomes seem a little too displaced, unless gnomes have lived throughout central Khovaire for a long time, but most anciently in the Zilargo region, though I can see why relatively few live in Thrane, Thrane's a crazy place, and I can see Gnomes fleeing in droves from there. :)