Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bubba333 04-08-05, 02:40 AM	I have Races of Eberron and really like what I've read so far, however I was hoping for more on the drow. Am I the only one? Either way, I like the book and any fears about it being generic have been laid to rest.
Hellcow 04-08-05, 03:05 AM	There will be more on the drow in time. I'm working on something right now that involves them, though it will be a while before you see it. And I'll leave it at that...
PoeticJustice 04-08-05, 03:17 AM	Magic! It's Magic Of Eberron! They're Screwing Around With Elemental Binding, Aren't They!
greatfrito 04-08-05, 03:48 AM	If it has something to do with Magic of Eberron, then I laugh at it. Our DM is seriously considering having Drow having forgot magic in any organized sense - maybe sorcerers, but that's just a big maybe. they're gonna be far more of a group of savages.
Bubba333 04-08-05, 05:44 AM	There will be more on the drow in time. I'm working on something right now that involves them, though it will be a while before you see it. And I'll leave it at that... That's more than good enough for me. Thanks! BTW, I met more people that have gotten into/back into D&D because of Eberron. Thanks again Keith for breathing life into D&D again!
Gez 04-08-05, 05:48 AM	Less on the drow, please!!! I'm very close to think it was an error to begin with to include them in a supposedly subrace-free setting, but I was content enough with them relegated as backwater, fece-hurling, anecdotical savages living in a ruined continent where giants -- rather than dark elves -- would be the main attraction.
AzarKing 04-08-05, 09:37 AM	Oh no, not at all. My take is that if something is popular enough, however has the chance to be expanded story-wise without compromising what the designer has already built-it would behoove them to please fans, even if in a limited capacity :)
ekomega 04-08-05, 01:03 PM	I find the take on drow in RoE to be good, and relieving. They don't have the "traditional" place in Eberron, and that's good. But they do have an interesting place. It's a short section for them, but worth the read. Check it out.
Hellcow 04-08-05, 01:31 PM	I'm very close to think it was an error to begin with to include them in a supposedly subrace-free setting... Well, as I've said before, I see them as a separate race, not as a subrace. And again, at least with what I'm working on, it focuses on their culture and history as ties in to their past in Eberron - so these ARE the savage surface drow. They may not be hurling feces, but culturally they have nothing in common with the drow of, say, FR. Sorry to disappoint, Gez, but they have been mentioned, and many people are interested it them, so my goal is to make them as interesting and unique as possible. You can always choose not to use them, after all; one advantage of them being savages in Xen'drik (not some sort of mighty Xen'drik-spanning empire) is that you can just decide that your PCs never enter their territory.
krocha 04-08-05, 02:00 PM	Well, as I've said before, I see them as a separate race, not as a subrace. And again, at least with what I'm working on, it focuses on their culture and history as ties in to their past in Eberron - so these ARE the savage surface drow. I know I'll be eagerly awaiting this. I think it's another fresh new take on an existing race. Just take one look at the picture in the latest Dragon and you can see the difference in Eberron drow. In the game I run, they will have barbarian as their preferred class.
fizzbang 04-08-05, 02:07 PM	Less on the drow, please!!! I'm very close to think it was an error to begin with to include them in a supposedly subrace-free setting, but I was content enough with them relegated as backwater, fece-hurling, anecdotical savages living in a ruined continent where giants -- rather than dark elves -- would be the main attraction. Don't worry too much about it. Remember, if Eberron can make Gnomes go from "comic relief tinkerers" to "Machiavellis in short pants", then I trust that it can turn Drow into something interesting, as well!
Gez 04-08-05, 02:17 PM	Well, I just hope we'll see more on giants before (or at least at the same time as) we see more on drow.
(Psi)SeveredHead 04-08-05, 02:50 PM	Don't worry too much about it. Remember, if Eberron can make Gnomes go from "comic relief tinkerers" to "Machiavellis in short pants", then I trust that it can turn Drow into something interesting, as well! Well, actually, I think gnomes in Eberron are cool because they're jungle rats. Their politics didn't interest me much... but what that gnome did to that half-orc was still just great! As for drow, so long as they're not portrayed as "better" than everyone else (hey, I'm 300 years old, and for some odd reason I fight way better than any elf I run into) then they can be okay. But, please, no drow in more than one novel line, k?
Tzarevitch 04-08-05, 03:24 PM	Well, I just hope we'll see more on giants before (or at least at the same time as) we see more on drow. Yes, please. Tzarevitch
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 04-08-05, 07:16 PM	That's one of the things that sruck me when I first read the ECS... "Hey... where's the Drow?" Culturally speaking, the closest thing in Eberron to traditional Drow, in my opinion, are Gnomes. Scheming, plotting, regal, dangerous to deal with, even more dangerous to anger. Eberron Gnomes are like FR Drow without the spider goddess, theological matriarchy, and overt enslavement of lesser races! Eberron Drow, on the other hand, strike me as finesse-based traditional FR Orcs, while Orcs in Eberron are like brute-strength-based FR wood-elves, while goblinoids are more likely to be warriors and fighters, even aristocrats than barbarians, but halflings take it upon themselves to be the barbarians... but barbarians with a real culture. In short, Eberron takes the basic racial "type" concept, switches a few around, makes us rethink what each "type" is like, and then gives us something altogether different from what we're used to... That said, I want to hear more about these savage Drow, their ways, customs, innitiation rites, methods of government (however primitive), religion, common names, clothing (again, however primitive), languages, or what else have you. Just please, for the love of all that is good and decent, don't turn them into a study of what Talenta halflings would be like without the civilizing influences of The Five Nations... They owe their continued existence to the Giants and live amongst their ruins. Far from being untamed Talentans in nature, or in extreme reverence of nature, it would be much more likely that they would revere giants (possibly as gods) and attempt to emulate them. In that respect, the Drow would be more like Pueblo Indians, with an architecture and culture influenced by the Giants just as the Pueblos were influenced greatly by the Aztecs just to their south. I'd even go so far as to say that Drow tribes would have artifacts that tribal wars would be fought over and likely be central to worship, and "atifact" would be well nigh anything small enough and light enough for about ten or twenty low-level Drow could heave out of any given ruin... Anything from a Giant's chamber pot to an ancient warforged (who just happens to have a nifty metal torc that makes the party artificer salivate...). But that's just my take on 'em. :D
Teron Gorefiend 04-09-05, 02:25 PM	According to the excerpt on the website, Xen'drik drow worship a scorpion god. Isn't that rather similar to the traditional spider godess? I was hoping for a more radical departure from the drow in other settings.
Hellcow 04-09-05, 02:48 PM	According to the excerpt on the website, Xen'drik drow worship a scorpion god. Isn't that rather similar to the traditional spider godess? I was hoping for a more radical departure from the drow in other settings. Eh, SOME drow worship a scorpion god. The key is that there's a fair amount of cultural diversity among drow tribes: they aren't one monolithic civilization. It's something we'll explore further in the future. I admit, RoE makes it sound like they all share one belief, but really, the RoE section is an example of drow, not the definition of all drow. Just look at the Umbragen in the April Dragon and you'll see how different they can be.
hiryuu 04-09-05, 02:49 PM	According to the excerpt on the website, Xen'drik drow worship a scorpion god. Isn't that rather similar to the traditional spider godess? I was hoping for a more radical departure from the drow in other settings. I don't think it's a god per se as opposed to a more veneration of scorpions in general. There's a big difference between spiders and scorpions. Scorpions don't build webs, they are typically active hunters, and they are very good mothers, carrying their children on their backs.
Teron Gorefiend 04-09-05, 03:00 PM	I don't think it's a god per se as opposed to a more veneration of scorpions in general. There's a big difference between spiders and scorpions. Scorpions don't build webs, they are typically active hunters, and they are very good mothers, carrying their children on their backs. Well, the excerpt specifically describes a scorpion-humanoid hybrid god named something like Vulkoon. Thank you, Keith, for clarifying that what I read is only an example of drow culture; I was worried because, as you say, the text itself implies otherwise. I don't object to some tribes worshiping a scorpion god and may very well use that myself, but I don't want all (regular) drow to have such a glaring connection those of other settings. As for the Umbragen, I have read that excellent article and plan to make use of the material. That's largely why I was bothered by what I read; PC's who encounter the Umbragen should also deal with run-of-the-mill drow for the differences to be emphasized, and that's no good if the former aren't up to the high Eberron standards you've set.
Hellcow 04-09-05, 03:03 PM	I don't think it's a god per se as opposed to a more veneration of scorpions in general. There's a big difference between spiders and scorpions. Scorpions don't build webs, they are typically active hunters, and they are very good mothers, carrying their children on their backs. I agree. The scorpion theme is a common one that stretches across multiple cultures. Some of these worship Vulkoor, but others are more animistic and simply venerate and emulate the scorpion itself.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 04-09-05, 07:33 PM	I agree. The scorpion theme is a common one that stretches across multiple cultures. Some of these worship Vulkoor, but others are more animistic and simply venerate and emulate the scorpion itself. Is this veneration nearly as extreme as that of the Drow's veneration for spiders in other setting (as in killing a spider merits death)? Is the general idea of the scorpion the common thing (as in scorpions are significant to all drow, but some worship them as benefactors while others view their presence as an omen of bad fortune), or is it entirely scorpion=good thing? Is the scenario I described above in which artifacts from the ruined cities of the giants are looted as religious objects likely, or do the drow more generally see them as little trinkets to trade to foreigners for "valuable" things? Would a normal elf of Valenar or Aerenal be regarded merely with distrust, or would the "rebels" be recieved by a boomerang to the side of the head in general terms? Are drow sufficiently intelligent on the whole to realize that genetic diversity is a must and therefore marry into other family groups, or are they more likely to kidnap drow from other families, use them to procreate, then kill them, or do they just not care either way and live in incest 90% of the time? Is the boomerang favored over blowguns or bows and arrows amongst most drow? Is their style of tattooing closer to the modern "tribal" sort of pattern (like Chacotay's on Star Trek Voyager or your average Dragonmark), the original tribal patterns of the south Pacific islands, or do they generally follow the same South American style that seems to follow everything else in Xen'Drik? On a side note, I have a mental image of a group of Drow worshipping a pretty damn skilled Master Transmogrifist mixing monstrous spiders, drow, and centaurs... I think I might use that iwhen I run a Xen'Drik campaign...
Romulus LoneWolf 04-09-05, 10:34 PM	I guess I've just gotten entrenched in my vision of Drow, cause I just love those traditional spider-loving schemers. I browsed through the description of Drow in Races of Eberron.. And to me, they're little more then Wild Elves with a twist. So, sorry to disappoint everyone, but in my Eberron campaign, the Drow are elves who stayed in Xen'Drik, recovered the lost magical lore of their giant masters, then began building their own corrupt empire in the ruins after making an alliance with a Rakshasa Rajah with a spider-motif... ...I guess I could keep the more savage Drow as rival Drow nations, though.
Indigo 04-09-05, 11:19 PM	I guess I've just gotten entrenched in my vision of Drow, cause I just love those traditional spider-loving schemers. Have you checked out the Umbragen? They're underdark-dwelling, shadow-loving schemers (who are in a vicious war with the daelkyr).
Brastan 04-10-05, 01:16 AM	Interesting Romulus, that is a very appropriate concept. It does not prevent the current Eberron Drow societies as Xen'Drik is a very large place and most encounters with savage Drow occur along the costs, or relatively near. It is entirely with in the realm of belief that a large community of Drow in the interior some were have developed a completely different belief and social system then those else were. If you want to make the PCs hate you even more add Quoir sprits in to the mix. This would leave you with spider worshiping, mind-warped, magic/psionic using, paranoid, back stabbing, survivors. Remember that the lords of the Realm of Dreams did invade the continent and would have likely left some items or artifacts that the Drow may have uncovered.
Kid SixXx 04-10-05, 08:36 AM	I guess I've just gotten entrenched in my vision of Drow, cause I just love those traditional spider-loving schemers. I browsed through the description of Drow in Races of Eberron.. And to me, they're little more then Wild Elves with a twist. I dunno. To dismiss the Xen'Drik Drow as Wild Elf varients, is to sorta ignore their origins, IMO. I think that too many people are equating "savage" with "inferior" and that's certainly not the case. Just because the jungle dwelling Drow may not be as urbane or sophisticated as their city-dwelling FR kin, does not make the Xen'Drik Drow or the Umbragen any less dangerous. I think the way you run the Drow in your campaign is pretty interesting, but I also don't think it takes a leap of logic to separate yourself from the monolithic culture that has dominated the vision of the Drow over the years. Given the Umbragen, the jungle dwelling Drow, and the alleged advanced civilization of Drow hiding perhaps in Khyber, it's refreshing to see that you can have such drastic differences in culture and structure without having to breed a whole new sub-race.