Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Edymnion 01-16-05, 12:30 AM	Was just... well, nevermind what I was just doing, lets just say it gave me some time to think ;) House Vol carried the Mark of Death. The house was destroyed for mixing elven and dragon blood, hence Erandis d'Vol. Destroyed by both the Dragons and the Elves. But wait, something there doesn't jive. Think back to the Prophecy. The Dragons are taking special interest in Khovaire right now because of the appearance of the Dragonmarks on the people of Khovaire, right? And that these dragonmarks, and their movement, somehow reveal bits of the prophesy. So why would the Dragons allow one of the marks to be wiped from the face of Eberron entirely? Its like saying you want to read a book, but you go and rip out every 13th page, it doesn't make any sense. Unless the Mark of Death has not been wiped out. Perhaps there is still a sizable population that carry it, just not in Khovaire? Hmmm... but the dragonmarks never show up on people outside of Khovaire. Mystery abounds :)
Streamweaver 01-16-05, 01:12 AM	So many possibilities here. Just random whacky ideas. What if killing off house Vol wasn't to get rid of the mark, but just the elves who bore it. Now that they mated with Dragons perhaps the mark still exists in a draconic bloodline. After dragons were able to bear the mark they wiped out the remaining elves of the line so they alone would have the power over death. Much of the lore we read in the books comes from the point of view of people on Khorvair, what if there are tribes hidden in Argonessen who still bear the mark? Perhaps the dragons know that marks can never actually be destroyed and if you wipe out a bloodline they will always reappear on a long enough timeline. Then their actions come not to destory the mark, but get it out of the hands of house Vol or the elves. If this were true what would Vol do if the mark reappear on another race?
Gilgiga of the Hunt 01-16-05, 01:48 AM	Or perhaps they did it to see what would happen if they tried. Or perhaps the prophicy said rather clearly in very simple draconic KILL ALL THE ELVES OF HOUSE VOL. Something that the dragons saw necacary, that much is known. I doubt it was becuase they ****** the dragons off. They probably did use the other elves to meet their ends however.
InfinityStar8 01-16-05, 12:40 PM	Remember also in the War of the Mark that one thing the houses did was wipe out all Abberant and mixed marks. The books say they left behind the twelve current houses and destroyed the Mark of Death, but they also destroyed the "lesser" Dragonmarks. So, who is to say there is not another unknown mark out there that is filling the void till the Mark of Death returns from it's undeath.
Gilgiga of the Hunt 01-16-05, 01:04 PM	I don't really know if this is on topic. But dude, have you ever relasized that Blind Dog Pride, by Machine Supremacy, is the Vol theme song.
Isran_Imrador 01-16-05, 01:13 PM	a new dragon fraction of death carriers! does the mark diseapere when you leave Khorvaire? no but may it vanish after some generations? not many dragon generations have passed from vols time! they could always change thir shapes and stay on K. get refresh their mark once ina while! ps: thats why the chamber agents are so much in K. they need to refresh their marks....
Gurv 01-16-05, 01:20 PM	The Prophecy, and the draconic language, are complicated things. Imagine a language so complex that there are letters which exist only to be ignored. Kind of like the 'u' following a 'q' in the English 'language'. If Prophecy can be read in the shape of a landslide, then it can easily be read in the deaths of mortals. For example, if you documented the time and location of every slain Deathmarked elf, then drew a line between them in chronological order, taking into account the exact form of the death as well, then compared the generated symbols to the movements of Syberis... Humans kick :censored: but ultimately, we cannot hope to fathom the ways of immortal or ageless beings. Some things are just to big for us to see. Although I still think that King Kaius is keeping the last Deathmarked elf in Dreadhold as a hostage against Erandis' ability to control him. There is no way the Karrnath prisoner there is something as simple as the real Kaius III.
The White Sorcerer 01-16-05, 02:00 PM	Racism can blind even the most ancient beings. What if the dragons responsible, when they found out about Erandis, simply didn't care anymore? The massacre might have been part of the Prophecy, but the only thing the dragons cared about was their disgust and wrath for those who had polluted the draconic bloodline.
misanthropictodd 01-16-05, 03:26 PM	but the mark is not completly wiped out. it is mentioned in the campaign setting i won't say where spoilers and all. just look in the obvious spots. meaning prophecy still applies but if you want theory the original bloodline could have been bred into the house in the days of Xen'Drik the Drow still manifest the mark. the dragons never wiped out the Drow to keep the prophecy going and/or they did not crossbreed with the dragons. no abomination no problem
Isran_Imrador 01-16-05, 03:54 PM	who wouldnt want a drow villan with the mark of death! But i guess it just wont happen! (maybe a half-dragon drow!) but then they would be killed of to! LOL
Gurv 01-16-05, 04:07 PM	but the mark is not completly wiped out. it is mentioned in the campaign setting i won't say where spoilers and all. just look in the obvious spots. meaning prophecy still applies Where? PM me if you think it is a spoiler.
Edymnion 01-16-05, 04:26 PM	Where? PM me if you think it is a spoiler.Yeah, Erandis d'Vol still has her Mark of Death, but can't use it because she's undead. I don't recall ANYONE else in the setting being specifically said to have that dragonmark.
DolArrah 01-16-05, 05:18 PM	CAUTION: MAY CONTAIN SPOIlers What about a superman thing? The guy got blasted of of his home planet because it was about to be destroyed. What if, in secret, a member with the potential, but not the mark, escaped. Now, living in Knorvaire, his children hav not shown te mark, so the moon wouldn't come back, etc. Remember, it said that the marks only appeared where therewere Ebberon dragonshards, which only come up on Aerenal and Khorvaire (maybe on Argonessen, but no one knows), so the Drow can't have the mark. Maybe there is a correspondng dragon family with the mark, sinceagronnessen might have the shards, and they study themselves to learn more bout it. Since a 1/2 dragon can carry a dragonmark, why can't a full dragon, because a human can carry a Mark of Finding, like the 1/2 orcs.
misanthropictodd 01-16-05, 05:41 PM	Yeah, Erandis d'Vol still has her Mark of Death, but can't use it because she's undead. I don't recall ANYONE else in the setting being specifically said to have that dragonmark. yep just didn't think everybody would want to know also there is no reason in my mind why the drow could not have been the original bearers of the mark. if they bred with the elves of house vol at one time before the manifestation of the mark of death in aerenal. also the mark may have manifested before that back in Xen'drik history is always a little biased to someone and what elven hero would admit that his houses power originated among his evil ancestors especially in a culture of death and ancestor worship. it does not really matter i would rather see some more historical stuff on Eberron but it is fun to theorize. i'm used to FR so i crave more background on everything. sadly i am spoiled with background.time line wise though the drow thing is improbable. also just because Erandis d'Vol can't use her mark does not mean she i disconnected from the prophecy :evillaugh my mistake Eberron dragonshard whoops :thinks: could the mark still be dormant on others though away from eberron shards .... oh the uncertainty i love this
ydirbut 01-16-05, 06:09 PM	The Prophecy, and the draconic language, are complicated things. Imagine a language so complex that there are letters which exist only to be ignored. Kind of like the 'u' following a 'q' in the English 'language'. There isn't a q in language.
Ramses III 01-16-05, 08:56 PM	What about this: Maybe some dragon sage found an obscure passage of the Prophecy that predicted a doom that would be brought about by the last bearer of the mark of death, or by a dragonmarked half-dragon, or somesuch. So they kill all the elves with the mark of death (or so they think). Another possibility would be that the dragons found a passage they interpreted to mean that specific things they wanted to happen would only happen after the destruction of a house who had willingly mixed their own blood with that of dragons. Anyway, that's my guess; that they interpreted the prophecy in one way or another to say "destroy this part of the prophecy."
N'wah 01-16-05, 10:41 PM	The Mark of Finding is the only mark to grace more than one race in Eberron- and, alas, even if the elves and drow were mating in -3,200 YK, they are separate races. Not separate types of elves, but as similar as elves and humans are. For all we know, the Mark of Death affects the bloodlines of elves and half-elf/half-green dragons only. Second point- even though dragons can breed with elves, the Mark couldn't pass from a half-dragon parent to its whole-dragon child (the genetic feats of wonder involved with that boogle the mind). Just as a full orc-blooded member of House Tharashk can never manifest the Mark of Finding. Me, I think there may be a (long, arduous, and exceedingly difficult) way to grant a living elf with Vol's mark, or a copy thereof- the method of achieving that is what interests me most. For instance, while I doubt that a 'Marked member of House Vol survived a combined dragon/elf purge, I could see an unmarked illegitimate child or three going undetected. This latent bloodline offers the chance to recreate the Mark of Death- though some magical aid might be necessary to make up for centuries of bloodline dilution. Hmm... d'you think Demise might have some Vol in her family tree? Or maybe the Jhaelian elves? ;)
Ramses III 01-16-05, 11:18 PM	Well since the mark hasn't manifest (as far as anyone knows and is saying), I doubt that any living elf still carries the bloodline of Vol. The best bet to get it going again would be to true res Erandis and have her PAO herself into an elf and then have some children.
misanthropictodd 01-17-05, 12:07 AM	alas, even if the elves and drow were mating in -3,200 YK, they are separate races. Not separate types of elves, but as similar as elves and humans are. ok i may be missing something here. is there more info on the drow elsewhere that i am unaware of :help: as far as i can tell drow are elves i can't claim to have a PHD in d&doligyor have ever written an essay on elven biology. seriously is there more Eberron info i am missing about them. oh the idea was once the blood is in the vol line it only dilutes it does not go away( with the elven inbreeding it would dilute a bit slower) it could of happened in -40 000 for all we know anyway just a theory :shifty: :twocents:
Gurv 01-17-05, 12:16 AM	ok i may be missing something here. is there more info on the drow elsewhere that i am unaware of :help: as far as i can tell drow are elves i can't claim to have a PHD in d&doligyor have ever written an essay on elven biology. seriously is there more Eberron info i am missing about them Yes, yes, drow are elves. You're not missing anything. The point being made is that elves and drow have more differences between them than any two humans and are, for all intents and purposes, pretty much a different species. In Eberron, no one knows the history of the drow. There is no Lolth, and no "the drow are elves banished underground". As bst anyone can tell, the elves and the drow, although related, have been seperate for tens of thousands of years. They might have seperated naturally (unlikely, considering the arcane powers of the drow), or one might have been created from the other. For all we know, drow are the original elves. My theory however is that the drow were magically bred from elven stock as assassins and spies. So, yes. Drow are elves. No one knows if they are elf enough to carry the Mark of Death or any other elven dragonmark. Perhaps they are. Perhaps they do. Personally, I think drow are as different from elves as green dragons are from red dragons.
The White Sorcerer 01-17-05, 12:16 AM	ok i may be missing something here. is there more info on the drow elsewhere that i am unaware of :help: as far as i can tell drow are elves Hellcow has stated in the Ask Keith thread that he views the elves and drow of Eberron as two separate races. So a drow would be a humanoid (drow) instead of a humanoid (elf).