Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Venrev 09-24-04, 01:14 PM	I know this question has been answered in spades, but is there ANY way for a character (outside of being a 'forged repairing one's self) to heal in the Mournland? Are there pockets where a character can rest and use healing spells? If so, how would you find them?
GoodGuy89 09-24-04, 01:53 PM	Well, there are some spells (like goodberry) which heal hit points, but aren't of the [healing] subschool. They would work, provided that you could find fresh berries. Otherwise, that's for each DM to decide, I guess. In my campaign, an old Sovereign Host church still hold enough power to allow spells of the [healing] school to be cast within. Unfortunately, the church is occupied by hobgoblin scavengers, who aren't fond of visitors...
Venrev 09-24-04, 03:14 PM	That's a good idea... Have you seen the Shadows of the Last War adventure? They are putting (depending on exp) 3rd level characters in the Mournland fighting a carrion crab thingy. Sounds harsh when you can't heal. Yet in the description of the carrion crab it talks about how IT is healing up after a fight with a war party of Valenar elves. So I guess a good question is... why can that beast "heal up" and a normal creature can't? How would any creature that lives in mournland heal? Does it have to be a Mournland abberition in order to heal there? I just don't want to lose friends over putting them in the 'Shadows' adventure and sending them into the mournland when they're only 3rd level... any thoughts?
Edymnion 09-24-04, 03:20 PM	The critters in the Mournlands are described as being tainted and mutated. To me, that says they have been changed in such a way as to be able to survive there, meaning that they can heal there. PCs however, no. I do not allow ANY kind of healing, any at all, to function. I don't care if you cast Miracle, pull a god down in front of you, and pimp slap them until they heal you, it won't work. In my game at least, even Epic Level characters would fear the Mournlands. You simply do not go in there and pick fights, no matter who you are.
mistakeagian 09-24-04, 03:30 PM	If you look through the Ask Keith Baker FAQ he addressed this problem. Basically he said PCs cannot Heal, but creatures who live in the mournlands or were there on the day of mourning and were mutated would heal normally, though if such a creature were taken to say, a zoo in Breland it would NOT be able to heal. I would think that anyone who went into the mournlands would try not to go in TOO far. Especiallya t third level. Maybe they could run away and get through the mists so they could heal, then try to find their way back the next day? It's pretty hokey, but its better than killing everyone.
Methos of Aundair 09-24-04, 04:15 PM	As I recall Keith also said that when SotLW was designed the mournland's healing affect was not taken into account. As I recall (in other words I'm not positive) Keith also stated there had been some discussion to change it to 50% healing.
tmagann 09-24-04, 04:34 PM	I'm partial to using transform effects to heal, same as the Warforged do. Shifters, druids, mages with Polymorph, etc. It's pretty limited, but it can keep you alive long enough to run for the border.
Darkest90 09-24-04, 06:30 PM	I allow 25% magical healing in my campaign, but no natural healing at all, unless they be of Mournland origin. On the other hand, maybe there are a few places a person skilled in Mournland Lore can find in the Mournland that allows healing. The blighted rain fell and would not stop. Mournland soil had been made into red mud, still stained with old blood. Corpses and other vile things floated to the surface of this dreaded mire, causing the adventurers to repulse every time the grey lightning struck. "This way! We must be quick, our luck will run dry soon, peace does not last forever in the Mournland." The hobgoblin guide gestured. He was an old beast, white hair and wrinkles all, wearing the clothes and armor of Dhakaan. And yet, he moved like a ranger of the Valenar, running through the wild thorny rushes and swimming through the festering cess pools that had been collecting since the dreaded rain had started. He was a bold character, and hardy even for the fierce adventurers behind him. Up ahead, against the white flashes of the storm, there was a mound of stone and rubble that rose up high against the rest of the marsh. Their guide stopped a minute, then pulled up a large piece of rubble and tossed it into the Mournland soup. "Come." he said. The tunnel was a tight squeeze, each member going sideways to get through the narrow crack. Scrapes and cuts for all, especially the Brelish sorceress whose corset proved to not be tight enough. Down and down they went, deeper into everlasting darkness. Finally they all emptied out into a small room, the walls of more fallen rubble, covered with worn engravings and symbols. In the center was a shallow basin filled with clear water, dripping down from above, where a blue everlasting flame gave off a ghostly light. "We will rest here for a night, before we continue." the hobgoblin sighed, setting his things onto a large slag, and swiftly assuming a sleeping position. Closing his eyes, the old guide continued, "I found this place, long ago. Once it was a great Cyre temple, to the Sovereign Host, blessed be that pantheon. Its greatness has fallen, but it is a hospice that few may find in this waste. Rest here, for here's a place where rest is possible." This place, the Cyrish Hospice, you could use in any of your campaign. This place is where natural healing is possible due to it being such a hallowed area, and magic healing runs at 100%. Fresh water is to be had and one would benefit from generally very good protection from the perils of the Mournland (someone should keep guard in case something doesn't pry their way through the cracks). The guide should probably be something like a Rogue 1 / Ranger 4, and I had him as a pious believer in the Sovereign Host, as well as in old Dhakaani Empire, who is an expert at traversing the Mournland. He could betray him to the wills of the Heirs of Dhakaan and could be an agent of that faction, or may serve as a spy for the Lord of Blades, for those looking for a way for him to betray the group. He is a really exceptional NPC, but I wouldn't have him help the group outside of the Mournland. Hope I helped, Darkest90
SirLoin 09-24-04, 08:12 PM	I like that concecrated ground idea. Because what seems to have happened to the mournland is some sort of undying/undead curse. I think there is a thread in here about the rope trick spell as well for resting. The animals I think go to that purple glowing crevice area to further mutations and to heal probably. But I do agree it should be a place feared by all but survivable by the weary. If you scope out the MMIII there are some fierce critters roaming that land.
MageofMyth 09-24-04, 09:04 PM	I allow this in my game, and my DM allows it in his game, but some DMs think that it is broken. Rope Trick; Create a rope trick, go inside, and you are no longer in the Mornlands, so you can now heal.
Edymnion 09-24-04, 10:20 PM	I allow this in my game, and my DM allows it in his game, but some DMs think that it is broken.*raises hand* Yup, I'd be one of those. Games I run in Eberron (or when I run one that is, I'm still playing in it at the moment), if you are inside the boarders of the Mournlands, you will not heal until you are outside those boarders. Extradimensional space will not protect you from the effects of the Mourning as long as you created it while you were inside the boarders. Only way you're gonna heal is to Teleport out, heal, and then Teleport back in.
Ch@pel 09-25-04, 12:43 AM	How about a DC 20 Heal check (performed by another person, can't do it for yourself) for 50% natural healing and a DC 25 + Spell Level Spellcraft check for 50% healing from spells. That way there's still a chance you can get healed, but its by no means a sure thing. Even an 8th level cleric, with max ranks in spellcraft, skill focus (spellcraft), and magic affinity feat (+2 for spellcraft), still only has a 50/50 chance of getting cure light wounds to work, and even then it only heals 50% of the hit points! Having to make these checks (and failing them... repeatedly... while in battle...;)) can really drive home the point about the danger of the Mournlands. I mean, I want them to have a healthy fear of the place, but I don't want them to completely avoid it altogether. They may get offers to do a job in there, but refuse them outright rather than risk it. Thats no fun. If they get to a high enough level that these checks aren't a problem for them, well then good for them, they're freaking heroes after all! Even if they always make the checks, they still only get 50% healing. Thats still a significant hindrance. Or maybe while they're low level, you can give them some kind of special device or artifact (with a limited number of doses/ uses) that allows for normal healing. That way they don't die right away at low levels, but then at higher levels, you just don't give them that luxury, so they have to be more careful.
TheRedRobedWizard 09-25-04, 07:58 AM	I want them to have a healthy fear of the place, but I don't want them to completely avoid it altogether. They may get offers to do a job in there, but refuse them outright rather than risk it. Um... that would make them smart. Mayhaps instead of trying to send them to a place where (according to the rules as written) they WILL die, send them to some place where there are people and things that they can actually accompish. Just my observation. Or maybe while they're low level, you can give them some kind of special device or artifact (with a limited number of doses/ uses) that allows for normal healing. That way they don't die right away at low levels, but then at higher levels, you just don't give them that luxury, so they have to be more careful. If they're low level, they shouldn't be in the ****ing Mournland! If they're high level, well, they'll have access to other ways of healing. Just, no. Mournland = no spells of the healing subschool or magic items that mimic the effects of spells of the healing subschool. Have the druid cast Goodberry a few dozen times and you'll be fine. Failing that, just don't get hit by anything. The Mourning is a scary place, and that's the way it should be. Don't go making it into some namby pamby "OH NOS ONLY 50% HEALING!" land. As an addendum: "Hey guys, I want you to go to the Negative Energy Elemental Plane without any kind of protection, but for some reason you're immune to the effects because you're only level 5." There aren't enough rolley-eye smilies in the world. -TRRW
Egres 09-25-04, 08:41 AM	Use Empathic-Transfer:Hostile and Vampiric Claw/Weapon.
Methos of Aundair 09-25-04, 09:13 AM	As both Egres and several other users have posted here there are ways to heal yourself and ways to get through the Mournland safely, it just requires planning. I will probably leave the Mournland the way it is (though might add the idea of consecrated ground) and let the players brainstorm ways to travel and explore the Mournland. Of course any interesting and great ideas I would definitely award them xp for. I don't want to modify the Mournland just so lower levels pc's can adventure there since when they get higher level I will have to be consistent with my rulings. The players always hate (as do I as DM) it when you change enironmental or other effects due to what level they are. Players typically are not stupid (typically, notice I said that :D ) and will find ways to get through something. Often surprising the DM. :)
MageofMyth 09-25-04, 12:01 PM	Um... that would make them smart. Mayhaps instead of trying to send them to a place where (according to the rules as written) they WILL die, send them to some place where there are people and things that they can actually accompish. Just my observation. If they're low level, they shouldn't be in the ****ing Mournland! If they're high level, well, they'll have access to other ways of healing. The problem is that the first official module for Eberron sends the PCs directly into the Mournlands. Quite a few DMs, that I know, want to run the official modules to get a better fit for the world so quite a few low level groups are struggling to figure out just what to do.
Edymnion 09-25-04, 01:01 PM	Yes, it sends them into the Mournlands. And all but one of the fights can be completely avoided as long as the PCs can control their trigger fingers. Remember, you get xp for defeating a situation, not for simply killing something. Yes, killing the monster is usually the fastest and easiest way to defeat the encounter, but there are other ways. If the monster is guarding an entrance to somewhere, and the players find/make another way in, then they've defeated the guardian, and should get the xp for such. Going into the Mournlands at low level isn't a deathtrap unless you've just got a bunch of hack-'n-slashers that think they have to fight everything that moves.
tmagann 09-25-04, 01:16 PM	Going into the Mournlands at low level isn't a deathtrap unless you've just got a bunch of hack-'n-slashers that think they have to fight everything that moves. And that's it right there, I think. I have what I consider to be a really good group of players in a game going on about 3 years. they will take every precaution, make every plan, do everything they can to survive. Except avoid the fight. Nobody runs away to fight another day, anymore.
m15a 09-25-04, 02:40 PM	i agree that healing at 50% doesn't seem nearly as scary. i'm noticing that people aren't really sugesting it, so maybe i'm missing the reasoning, but is there a problem with allowing natural healing but no magical healing whatsoever in the mournland? is it just because then it wouldn't be as scary a place to commonfolk? or is it that in game, that doesn't sound scary to players? to me, it seems good since you'd still really want to avoid a fight, since no one wants to rest for 5 days to heal up after every fight, but you still wouldn't have to die if you're clever enough to find a good place to hide.
stone_dog 09-25-04, 03:09 PM	Rope Trick; Create a rope trick, go inside, and you are no longer in the Mornlands, so you can now heal. I'd go for this. It makes the PCs feel a little safer and when the PCs feel a little safer they are a little more vulnerable. Rope trick? Oh sure, go right ahead. Again? No problem. Oh, you have a wand of the things? Good thinking. Maybe even give them a bit of xp for being clever. Each time they cast it though they risk drawing the attention of a Thing that dwells between the borders of the planes. Every time they cast it there is a cumulative 5% chance that Something Awful is waiting in there for them. A hungry force seeking to drain their souls and leave them mindless husks wandering about the Mournlands. An idea shamelessly stolen from the Wheel of Time books, yes, but I think it will still work rather well. If you have the WoT RPG rulebook, just go right ahead and use the Black Wind rules on page 287. Basically it is a Will save (20) each round to avoid 1d4 permanent damage to both Wis and Int. When either reaches zero you character is now mindless (int drain) or soulless (wis drain). If you are mindless maybe you can be Restored, but if you are soulless maybe you are just a new kind of zombie that bleeds. Maybe this thing is a manifestation of the Keeper and your friends can get your soul back, but they have to shepard your body about like Spock when his brain was stolen (while you play an orc guide taking the party into the Keeper's Lair). Once the attention of the Thing Between Worlds is drawn, it tends to follow them about. Give it a +10 to find them again and set the DC at 15+(1/15 minutes since last casting). Once it has failed three times to find them the chance for it to appear is back to 5%. Maybe the thing howls and gibbers through the etherial plane now and then too. The consecrated ground thing is nice and pulpy, but I'd still ditch supernatural healing within even its sanctified borders. A good night sleep will heal normally though and there is fresh water to drink untainted by the outside. After all that hell even that small blessing will seem huge.
Ch@pel 09-25-04, 04:51 PM	So is everyone flat out ignoring the fact that even the setting's creator has expressed an interest (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=273669) (read: post #2 and #11) in changing the current "rule" for healing in the Mournlands? It seems like SotLW was written without this rule in mind, so how solid can it really be? The concept isn't even so much as mentioned in the first official module for Eberron, which sends low level PCs directly into the Mournlands! Even in the CSB, the "no healing" concept isn't really presented as a solid rule; its buried in the fluff section of the Mournlands. Its seems to me like someone on the design team had the idea of making the Mournlands more deadly somehow, and "no healing" was just a quick way to do that. You'd think that if they playtested that rule and were 100% certain that they wanted to keep it that way, they would have emphasized it a little more, maybe in a sidebar or something, after all it is a cool idea. But it just presented as a passing remark on a bit of flavor for the place, and everyone here seems to have taken it to be the only way to run the Mournlands. It looks more like an after-thought than a critical aspect to the setting. I am all for making the Mournlands an exceptionally tough place to survive, but completely abolishing healing, in all forms, seems a little too harsh, and I'm not alone on that point. I stand by my suggestion that some Heal and Spellcraft checks could be required, and even if they succeed, they still only work at 50%. Even at high levels, having to make Spellcraft checks just to get half healing is still a big risk. Lets say for a high level campaign, you wanted to have them assault an outpost held by the LoB. No amount of planning, tactics, or tricks are ever going to make success even remotely possible. You can't reason with the LoB's followers, so thats right out too. I'm not saying to make it easy, just make it possible. It seems like most of the people who want to keep the "no-healing" rule in place are doing it just so they can screw over their players. It seems like a way to keep powergamers in check, rather than a flavor aspect, which is how it was originally presented in the CSB.
Ch@pel 09-25-04, 04:58 PM	Yes, it sends them into the Mournlands. And all but one of the fights can be completely avoided as long as the PCs can control their trigger fingers. Which module are you talking about? In SotLW, there is a carcass crab and a pack of undead wolves, and thats before they get to the undead vulture, living spells, and fire elementals. None of these things can be reasoned with, or resolved without combat.
stone_dog 09-25-04, 05:15 PM	So is everyone flat out ignoring the fact that even the setting's creator has expressed an interest (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=273669) (read: post #2 and #11) in changing the current "rule" for healing in the Mournlands? Not ignore, just wanting to work with it rather than blindly follow it about. I am perfectly happy to have ways around the no healing rule (and agree that it is required for an extended run into the mournlands), but I want them to be difficult, dangerous, unreliable even at high levels or any combination of the three. Consecrated ground, extra dimensional spaces, special limited magic items and other such things can all be put into effect, but I want to stay away from the idea that any one of those things can be relied upon on a regular basis while inside the dead grey mists.
Ch@pel 09-25-04, 06:29 PM	I'm not blinding following it either, but I think some people are taking it a little too seriously, when it wasn't even presented as a "rule" in the first place. Consecrated ground and special items are okay I guess, maybe I'll throw some special potions that allow you to heal normally (maybe 50%) into SotLW. But saying that there is no healing whatsoever, no matter what the conditions, seems too harsh. I don't think it needs to be like that to instill a little fear in the PCs. Now that I'm thinking about it, I think I'll go with dropping a couple of vials of pure water from Lake Cyre, taken before the Mourning, into the Church in Rose Quarry. When this water is imbided, you can heal naturally, and healing spells cast on you work at half strength for one day's time.
Edymnion 09-25-04, 07:41 PM	But saying that there is no healing whatsoever, no matter what the conditions, seems too harsh.I suppose its a DM style sort of thing. When I DM, I'm big on the idea that the world does not revolve around the PCs. Just because they want to do something doesn't mean there has to be a way to do it. There are just going to be some things that they cannot do, no matter how powerful they get. And for me, one of these things is healing in the Mournlands. Yes, its harsh, but we're talking about the aftermath of essentially a nuclear holocaust. Its supposed to be harsh. I personally LOVE this fact. Finally, its someplace even high level PCs can't just wave around some magic trinket and ignore the penalties. There is no environment in the multiverse that a well prepared 20th level wizard would fear to tread, in any other setting. But here, here is something special. Here is someplace that you could tell Epic level wizards to go, and make the sweat. Here is a place someone that could rival the gods fear to tread. Here is one of the reasons I love Eberron :)
MageofMyth 09-25-04, 08:56 PM	There is no environment in the multiverse that a well prepared 20th level wizard would fear to tread, in any other setting. But here, here is something special. Here is someplace that you could tell Epic level wizards to go, and make the sweat. Here is a place someone that could rival the gods fear to tread. Actually no 20th level or Epic wizard would be the slightest afraid, since they could teleport out, heal, have a drink, goof off, and then teleport back in. It is only deadly until the character can teleport, so it is only deadly for lower level characters. Which the first module sends directly into it.
Otakkun 09-25-04, 10:11 PM	Actually, the only place in the multiverse epic wizards fear are dead magic zones in FR. The mournlands don't bother them in any way at all, since a wizard will need healing only in very rare situations, and for those, he can just teleport in and out. The mournalnds are a nightmare for all of those who can't teleport though.
Edymnion 09-25-04, 10:47 PM	Note to Self: Make Living Dimensional Anchor spell, and have it tag along behind the PCs the whole time they're in the Mournlands...
smrtgmp 09-26-04, 03:03 AM	In SotLW, there are numerous fights that cant be avoided. How is a low level party supposed to have any hope of survival if there is no way to heal themselves? I also find it a bit odd that there are several healing potions to be found throughout the module if there is no way to use them. Honestly, it seems like bad planning to me. Perhaps some wires were crossed when the adventure was designed, but now I feel like I wasted my 15 bucks. There is no way in hell I would throw a low level party into that death trap.
Brastan 09-26-04, 05:04 AM	I'm still sure that there was something some were that can change how a spell works. It has something to do with changing the elemental type of a spell or something. Could there be a way to tweak a a damage spell into producing positive energy that would 'heal' people with out being part of the Healing sub-school? If there is such a method I would have the Artifice or Wizard spend time researching it in game. It interesting how dependent adventures are on such a small subset of spells. And the chaos and confusion that results as a lack of them. Personally I have chosen to retroactively ignore the Mournland rules for SotLW. I believe The Churning Chaos happened to be conterminous with Eberron during that point in the adventure thus resulting in a bizarre situation were the PCs could heal. It might or might not happen again. Chaos is unpredictable. If you hit a nasty snag blame it on the Churning Chaos. Its a perfectly valid rules based excuse. The plane is there, it does bizarre things, it MUST BE USED!... chaos made me do it. :devil:
Ch@pel 09-26-04, 10:14 PM	You guys are right. I WANT the Mournlands to be a horrible, evil place, it just felt like no healing at all was too rough. My opinion also had to do with the fact that I was set on running SotLW, so I needed some way of working it out. I ran the entrance into the Mournlands today (part 3 of SotLW), and Failin felt so bad about them going into the Mournlands that he gave them three vials of pure water from Lake Cyre, which when ingested, allows natural healing as normal, and healing spells work at 50% (with a Spellcraft check, not sure about the DC) for one day. They did deal with the bugbears for him, it was the least he could do. I figure that ought to be enough to help them through the place this time. (hopefully ;)) The thing is, I know that if I house ruled to allow healing in the Mournlands, I would wish I hadn't once they hit like level 7-8. Plus now they get to know the place first... and understand why they never, ever want to go back. :D
stone_dog 09-27-04, 12:46 AM	Good call ch@pel. This thread certainly is helping me flesh out my Mournlands rules. Ah like so. Within the borders of of the Dead Gray Mists normal and magical healing is halted for all non-natives except under these circumstances. First, some ruined temples have a strange aura of peace that allows natural healing to take place normally, but magical healing is still blocked. Placing an additional consecrate effect on the area might just let you cast healing spells as normal, but I wouldn't tell the PCs that right away. Second, somehow going to another plane will leave you free of the effects of the Mournlands, but some Thing haunts the space between planes and may catch up with anybody crossing planar boundries in the area. This includes going to any transitive, demi or coterminous planes. Imagine accidently leading this Thing (more a phenomenon than a creature, hence no stats and no killing it) to Syrania when all you want to do is heal up a bit. The solar ruler of the place might just demand that you do something about letting something like that loose in his peaceful community. Third, Irian Crystals might give a healing spell an extra boost to beat the aura of the Mournlands (but not so far as to empower the spell as normal). Of course, these extra material components kinda suck as written (poof? Just gone whether it did anything or not? Pftth.) so I might re write them. The percent chance of success might go up by the level of the spell everytime something is cast through the item. It gets more and more attuned to magical energies until its enhancement finally works and then it burns out. So there you have three options that seem like they soften the blow of the Mournlands, but leave it dangerous and deadly across levels. The consecrated ground is hard to get to no matter what your level is (teleport is an issue, but it burns up extra spell slots/resources for the simple task of healing so I'm not bothered). The plane shifting also uses up extra resources and could be fatal in itself (dc 20 will save gets easier with each level, but you still have to make it every turn). Nothing tries to suck your brians out (or susans.. I mean brains damn it) or rip your soul from your body for using Irian Crystals, but they are expensive things and only good for the one shot. The first is cheap and safe, but not fast. The second is fast and cheap, but not safe. The third is fast and safe, but not cheap. Sound good?
RadicalTaoist 09-27-04, 02:16 AM	I asked Keith Baker in that thread. Rope Trick works. While it's wonderful (RT is an excellent, excellent spell, even more so now) it's not perfect. You can't heal in the middle of combat, which is what characters at low levels may need to survive. If you're facing cunning foes, they'll know the spell and simply set an ambush for you, waiting until you fall out of that little demiplane. Hey, you need that healing again already? The Mournland should be a hella dangerous place, not a happy place. But players should be rewarded for cunning tricks which alleviate it's nastiness, not punished. I mean, Rope Trick far from breaks the Mournland, hitting them with a Thing Between Worlds seems ridiculously unfair on top. If you want to turn Eberron into Silent Hill, then I pity your PCs. If they're high enough level to make smart foes, then ambush waiting once they're done with that spell. Angry warforged rogues with much sneak attack. As for being able to cast healing spells inside, that would be very high level in my opinion, you'd need to be able to beat an antimagic field or a dead magic zone before having Mournland healing capabilities. And I'd base it on a caster level check, and if you succeed you have to make a Will save to keep from becoming fatigued from the effort. In the meanwhile, holy safe places seem pretty okay. It's a DM thing, I guess.
stone_dog 09-27-04, 02:30 AM	If you want to turn Eberron into Silent Hill, then I pity your PCs. I don't. They are asking for it. Literally. Oh, they aren't asking for Eberron/Silent Hill, but the best horror creeps up on you when you aren't expecting it. "Come on, run Silent Hill or Resident Evil or something survival horrorish." "Sounds like fun. I'll do that sometime. Lets just play D&D for a while while I flesh out a couple of oneshots, 'k?" "Sure!" (me laughing maniacally in my head) I'll tinker with the appearance of the Thing... hell, I might as well just call it the Black Wind... I'll tinker with the appearance frequency of the Black Wind a bit. I want it to be a shock once they have tried the rope trick a couple of times and an ever looming threat whenever they try it again, but not enough where they don't ever try it. Just enough where they wince a little when they climb up the rope... Then after all that (and probably a good dose of Delta Green: Countdown inspired Carcosa weirdness here and there) it is back to good ol swashbuckling shining heroes and monster bashing. Actually, the Carcosa stuff will have to come at higher levels when Xoriat is coming close and the only hope is to rescue a comrade from the endless revel of the King in Yellow's court.
Steven Snyder 09-27-04, 11:31 AM	Which module are you talking about? In SotLW, there is a carcass crab If the PCs were smart, they would have kept right on riding when they saw the huge mound of bodies. Those that dig through the corpses in search of loot get what they deserve. and a pack of undead wolves, This can be dealt with by Turn Undead which is about all your cleric is good for in the Mournlands. Another option is just avoiding the area as noted above, or the spells of Web, Obscuring Fog, Invisibility come to mind. Or just outrun them with your mounts...they can't run they can only take a single Move action. and thats before they get to the undead vulture, I hardly call a CR 1/2 much to worry about...Turn Undead and POP! living spells, Okay this is the first thing that is actually something of a challenge, and if your party is smart they should be in good condition when they fight it. and fire elementals. There are many spells that help people resist elements, and since your cleric isn't good for much else right now... The real challenge in the Mournlands is what happens after they leave Whiteheart, and even then they can reduce that encounter and get out alive...if they are smart that is.
RadicalTaoist 09-28-04, 12:59 AM	I don't. They are asking for it. Literally. Oh, they aren't asking for Eberron/Silent Hill, but the best horror creeps up on you when you aren't expecting it. "Come on, run Silent Hill or Resident Evil or something survival horrorish." "Sounds like fun. I'll do that sometime. Lets just play D&D for a while while I flesh out a couple of oneshots, 'k?" "Sure!" (me laughing maniacally in my head) I'll tinker with the appearance of the Thing... hell, I might as well just call it the Black Wind... I'll tinker with the appearance frequency of the Black Wind a bit. I want it to be a shock once they have tried the rope trick a couple of times and an ever looming threat whenever they try it again, but not enough where they don't ever try it. Just enough where they wince a little when they climb up the rope... Then after all that (and probably a good dose of Delta Green: Countdown inspired Carcosa weirdness here and there) it is back to good ol swashbuckling shining heroes and monster bashing. Actually, the Carcosa stuff will have to come at higher levels when Xoriat is coming close and the only hope is to rescue a comrade from the endless revel of the King in Yellow's court.OH. Well, if the PCs want a piece of this, then you are only being a good and generous DM by obliging them. :schemes: I would still find ways to mess with the extradimensional issue rather than totally annihilating normal healing. Why? We have not considered another factor - not allowing PCs to circumvent the Mournland's healing restrictions make Warforged ridiculously overpowered compared to all other races. The first time a PC dies, guess which race their replacement is? That also means they can do cheap **** like teleport the evil super monster you designed to TPK them out of the Mournland without slowing the steady stream of Repair spells the artificer and PAC knows (to say nothing of cleric and psion) and then jump right back in the Mournland after killing the creature quick because it lost its fast healing. Your campaign is no longer scary, your PCs are kinda identical, and you want to send them to other places now because Mourn Hills has lost its prime real estate value. However, no one said that Rope Trick has to work perfectly. Stuff goes wrong in the Mournlands right? :scheme: You don't even need that extraplanar baddie. Say, any healing spell cast inside an extradimensional pocket originating in the Mournlands has a 50% chance to function as an inflict spell of the same level (transfer this for heal too, an emergency casting of Mass Heal has the possibility to suck). This forces the characters to gamble. Likewise, the Rope Trick portal that stays in a fixed location in normal land may find it's location fluxing in the Mournland. How OH :eek::censored: is a moment like that? You have healed, rested, and you come out of your safe place - to somewhere in this daelkyr's landfill you've never seen b4. Finally, magic use can be detected, and thus magic-eating monsters/warforged bandits.
Marshall Stone 09-28-04, 01:31 AM	I know this question has been answered in spades, but is there ANY way for a character (outside of being a 'forged repairing one's self) to heal in the Mournland? Are there pockets where a character can rest and use healing spells? If so, how would you find them? From the Ask Keith Baker Thread: Q: Originally Posted by RadicalTaoist Ought to double check this idea I posted in the Magic & Cosmology forum. If the arcane spell Rope Trick, which creates a small demiplane a mage can escape into with a rope, is cast in the Mournland, will anyone in the little demiplane be able to cast healing spells normally? A: To the best of my knowledge, yes, this will allow you to heal in the Mournland. I'll also take this opportunity to note that I believe creatures native to the Mournland (carcass crabs, living spells, and other things shaped by the Mourning) do heal normally in the Mournland (but might not heal normally anywhere else!).
ieattrollsforbreakfast 09-28-04, 07:39 AM	I suppose its a DM style sort of thing. When I DM, I'm big on the idea that the world does not revolve around the PCs. Just because they want to do something doesn't mean there has to be a way to do it. There are just going to be some things that they cannot do, no matter how powerful they get. And for me, one of these things is healing in the Mournlands. Yes, its harsh, but we're talking about the aftermath of essentially a nuclear holocaust. Its supposed to be harsh. I personally LOVE this fact. Finally, its someplace even high level PCs can't just wave around some magic trinket and ignore the penalties. There is no environment in the multiverse that a well prepared 20th level wizard would fear to tread, in any other setting. But here, here is something special. Here is someplace that you could tell Epic level wizards to go, and make the sweat. Here is a place someone that could rival the gods fear to tread. Here is one of the reasons I love Eberron :) I completely agree with you there Edy. My players are currently fighting their way through Whitehearth. They just defeated the half golem wolf and all that remains between them and the schema is the trap room and the fire elementals. The problem is, one member of the team is unconscious, and most of the rest on very low hit points. Why is that a good thing you ask? Now they are actually scared of the Mournland :schemes:
Alexius D'Cannith 09-28-04, 12:09 PM	I like the idea of a dangerous Mournlands, but i also dont want to chase them off, so i allow the Rumour that there is a place maybe 2 where you can heal, these places will be hard to find and only allow 50% healing and no natural as even a most hallowed monastry takes a pounding from the mourning, I also allowed 50% healing in Whitehearth PROVIDING all the entrances are closed (the way they used and the dome) as it fit with the feel of whitehearth that it almost survived the mourning due to its many protections and thus does provide a limited form of respite, course my party were born in a barn
Dr. Benway 09-30-04, 07:52 PM	I have a fairly simple compromise to the Mournlands that i use in my game. The setup I have is that if you are in the Deadgray Mists themselves, on the border, then no healing of any kind is posible. Once witihin the Mounrland itself, it gets little better but not much. Basically the idea I have is that there are continuously moving 'rivulets' of the mists moving around through the Mournland, and that at any given moment you might be inside one. Thus each time you cast a helaing spell you also roll 1d4. This determines how strong the effect of the mists is in your area. 1=25%, 2=50%, 3=75%, and 4=100%. The result is what percentage you subtract from the HP regain. Thus you can never get back more than 75% of the total points from the spell...and there is chance it doesnt work at all, although it is still used. Natural helaing still doesnt work at all in the Mournland propper. What do you oflks think? It has been working fairly well for us so far. DocB:88E:
GMSteve 10-01-04, 12:06 AM	Since this thread seems to have moved onto a list of houserules for mournlands, here are two or three versions that I am considering... Simple Method Natural Healing shifts from being level/day to be level/7/day (basically level/week). Magic Healing Works - although all spells are minimized so that the die roll is automatically a 1. So if a healing spells does D8+3 - you only get 4 hitpoints. If it does 2d8 you get 2 hitpoints, etc. Very simple system that I think is still within the "spirit" without using a %reduction, which I think is against the flavor of the D20 system in general. Complex Method Natural Healing, you have to make a will power save, the DC equals 10+Number of days you have been in Mournland. If you pass you then you naturally heal that day. You can make a check each day. That makes it toughter the longer you hang out in the mournlands...The effect of the corruption.... Magical Healing spells you have to make a Wil save, you cannot choose to fail. The DC is calculated normally, so that means that powerful healing spells are actually harder to use in the mournlands....So for example for cure minor wounds it would DC10+Wis Bonus. For Cure Light Wounds DC11+Wis Bonus. That means that the lower level spells (ie. less efffective) are easier to cast while something like heal would be harder... Really Complex Way Natural Healing same as Complex Way Magical Healing, your character builds up a spell resistance to healing, Starting at 10. It goes up one each day. Every Day you make a will check for the DC being your "heal spell resistance" - if you ever fail two checks in a row, you start the process of being corrupted...Then you are treated as mournland creature....and the process works in reverse, you have a spell resistance to healing cast outside the mournlands, that is 10 and goes up 1 every day until you are restored to normal (which could be forever). Natural healing works once again... Maybe this is why some creatures stay in the mournlands... How do you get restored, we have no idea at this time....... My Choice I am going to go with option 1- Simple Method, it has the right flavor for me. and it "feels" like D20 to me. No healing and some X% just doesn't "feel" like D20 to me. I think effects should modify rolls, not negate or approach a broad brush approach. Of course this is just my opinion.
GMSteve 10-01-04, 12:13 AM	<double post>
Wren 11-03-04, 01:06 PM	I've just posted this elsewhere but I might as well cover my bases. Something that I'm wondering about. Would alchemical healing work where potions don't. There is a alchemical salve in the Tome and Blood. Nothing earth shattering only 1d8 healing.
Venrev 11-03-04, 01:36 PM	As long as it is not from the natural or healing schools of magic...
Wren 11-03-04, 01:39 PM	Nope purely alchemical in nature. Considering its in a book for Wizards and Sorcerers I'd say its nothing to do with natural healing or the Healing sub-type.
Venrev 11-03-04, 01:43 PM	Cool. It should work then...
Steven Snyder 11-03-04, 01:56 PM	Well, there are some spells (like goodberry) which heal hit points, but aren't of the [healing] subschool. They would work, provided that you could find fresh berries. Otherwise, that's for each DM to decide, I guess. In my campaign, an old Sovereign Host church still hold enough power to allow spells of the [healing] school to be cast within. Unfortunately, the church is occupied by hobgoblin scavengers, who aren't fond of visitors... I think it is a big "IF" to find fresh berries in the Mournland, most of what I read about it describes the natural vegetation as twisted and dangerous-looking.
Venrev 11-03-04, 02:17 PM	But if you can cast good berry, that would work, right? All you need is a billion good berries in a magic container (since good berries only last one day) that will prolong their potency indefinitely and you can traverse the Mournland until you're killed by a warforged or starve to death in the mists...
Iron_Weasel 11-03-04, 02:17 PM	When I ran SOTLW, I let my players know that the word out of the Mournlands was that healing spells and natural healing didn't work. Fortunately, healing potions seemed to be effective. This enabled my group to get through the adventure - hard pressed, yes, but no TPK. Since then, however, I've been dropping hints that something strange is happening in the Mournlands - first, there were accusations that House Jorasco was selling watered-down potions. A group of adventurers had gone into the Mournlands and discovered the potions weren't as effective as they expected. Now, the latest reports are that potions aren't working at all - and it's not a problem with Jorasco; even healers who prepare their own potions are having trouble. In this way, I've given my PCs the feeling that they were just in time - that now the Mournlands are even more dangerous than they originally thought. It also creates a certain sense that the Mournlands are unpredictable - first healing stops working, what's next? I've decided to go with the idea of certain consecrated locations (including a grove tended by a warforged druid that never seems to be in the same location) allowing the PCs to heal, and I'm also going to allow Rope Trick to work, but I'm goin to steal stone_dog's Black Wind idea for when my group's wizard inevitably creates a dozen RT scrolls. Can't let the PCs think they're safe, now can we? Cheers!
Cairn Stone 11-03-04, 05:02 PM	Only way you're gonna heal is to Teleport out, heal, and then Teleport back in. I agree wholeheartedly. Not only does this mode of ruling it keep the danger level intense in the Mournlands(as it is intended I think), but it also forces characters to come up with creative solutions to encounters in the Mournlands, that would elsewhere otherwise be solved through combat.
GoodTeletubby 11-04-04, 12:09 AM	I'm going to be running SotLW sometime soon, and I'm considering running with the spells not working, potions only working at minimum, with the potions found in the mournlands working normally, after all, they were exposed to the twisting magic too, they should be suitably altered to work properly while in there.
stone_dog 11-04-04, 12:16 AM	they should be suitably altered to work properly while in there. Make sure you use those words when you describe the effects to the PCs. PC: (swig potion) Did I heal? GT: (Rolls dice) Yes, the potion heals you of 5 HP. Apparently this potion was suitably alterered by the Mournlands twisted magics to affect you. Lemme see your character a moment.... (sound of dice rolling and note taking) Here you go. PC: Uhh... what was that about? GT: Oh nothing... probably. Carry on though. you feel better for now. :schemes:
Doc Phobia 11-04-04, 05:56 AM	I think allowing Rope Trick is OK, but what if you added a bit of flavour to this little 'pocket dimension'. Make a plane of your choice coterminous when the PCs use Rope Trick and have a little bit of that plane bleed into their pocket dimension. Make their lives a little more fun! :D That's if you go the whole don't-care-when-it's-coterminous-unless-it-fits-my-plot route. Make it a bit random, it's all good. Should stop PCs from 'breaking' the Mournland danger level, without breaking the PCs. ;)
Wren 11-04-04, 07:25 AM	No need to have additional flavor for the rope trick. Really! If anything have the casting of magic have a slight % of drawing a monster in. Random encounter. All the "Monster in the Void" stuff is so not part of the rules and a little unfair. I'm running the SotLW right now for my players. With a little teamwork and letting them level up to 3rd before they entered the Mournlands and they are doing fine. They've had a little bad luck with the dice but past that... they are doing OK. I've just had the PC's buy a small box of Alchemical Healing Salves the Failin "just happened" to have for such occations, which is the PC's only form of healing.
LENAIANEL 11-11-04, 09:54 AM	Pcs may expend Action Points to benefit from any method of healing. That why they should go into the mournlands when NPC will avoid it.
Wren 11-11-04, 11:35 AM	I'll tell you what... Aside from the little bit of dice betrayal my players had in the "wild" mournlands, once they got to WhiteHearth they kicked arse. Just the little bit of healing provided by the healing salves combined with the temp. HP provided by the AID spell and they were not having much trouble. They basically walked through most of the monsters like they did not exsist. So, the moral to this story. The healing issue while scary, does not prove to be insurmountable to PC's with good teamwork and a little forethought. (Damn the party cleric and his fire domain turning.) :D
MageofMyth 11-11-04, 12:42 PM	Pcs may expend Action Points to benefit from any method of healing. That why they should go into the mournlands when NPC will avoid it. Nice house rule, but not in any games I play in.
drowdude 11-11-04, 12:46 PM	I set it up so that there was a caster level check involved when casting healing spells or using related items. DC 20 base, modified up or down depending on how "tainted" a particular area was. Also, all such effects were minimized in effect (a potion of CLW for instance would simply heal 2 hp, IF you could manage to beat the DC, kinda hard with a caster level of 1 :)~ Further, I ruled that each individual instance of damage an individual suffered in the Mournland created a permanent wound that would not heal completely. So each time they got hit, they essentially permanently lost 1 hp for the duration of their stay in the Mournland. Those adjustments seemed to work out very well when I ran SotLW.
twoDtwenty 11-11-04, 01:11 PM	Anybody notice that apaladin's Lay on Hands ability is a supernatural ability and not a spell-like effect. Same with a monk's wholeness of body. Neither of those would be affected by the mist. Shifters can also grab Healing Augmentation, which could be concieved as supernatural and not natural healing. Death knell won't heal you but can keep a cleric alive. Same goes for Aid and Vampiric touch, all of which an artificer should have little trouble making scrolls, potions, or wands of (depending on just how low of a level your PCs are.) I'm sure that can't be all of them, but thats what I get off the top of my head that circumvents the no healing sub-school restriction and natural healing.
Wren 11-11-04, 01:21 PM	Gee... nope had'nt seen that before... nope... :D ;)