Post/Author/DateTime	Post
smrtgmp 06-30-04, 02:13 AM	I must say I am pleasently suprised by this latest release. I really thought I wasnt going to like it, since I'm generally not a huge fan of techno-magic. However, I am very impressed at how everthing was put together, and I have yet to encounter anything I really dont like. Kudos to WotC for a job well done. I especially like the artificer. Very cool.
Arisen Phoenix 06-30-04, 03:14 AM	Hey, Keith (and the rest of the Eberron crew) - thanks for such a great product! Eberron is definitely the most exciting thing I've seen out of TSR/Wizards in a long time. I love Faerun, and I've lived most of my fantasy life in Greyhawk, but so far Eberron stands to surpass both of them. Likes: * Break-the-mold alignment guidelines. I really like being freed from the stereotypical race and class alignment guidelines. Orc Druids, Goblin empires, and Giants with magic - all fighting against Evil - yeay! Along with corrupt Clerics. * Rich world to explore. Dislikes: * The book sacrifices some things to fit a space restriction. Encounter and treasure tables, a Khorvaire map with roads and major cities for cross-border travel, and does anyone know the price of a raw Dragonshard? Disclaimer - I used to work with Keith before he became famous. Don't let that stop you from believing my review, though. :eek:
Cthulhu 06-30-04, 04:46 AM	I've been considering buying Eberron. Sounds like it might be a good buy from what I have seen & read.
Cthulhu 06-30-04, 04:49 AM	Hmmm...why does this forum have a post counter but the rest don't? I had no idea I was over 2000 posts!
EberronGuiGui 06-30-04, 05:28 AM	Originally posted by smrtgmp I must say I am pleasently suprised by this latest release. I really thought I wasnt going to like it, since I'm generally not a huge fan of techno-magic. However, I am very impressed at how everthing was put together, and I have yet to encounter anything I really dont like. Kudos to WotC for a job well done. I especially like the artificer. Very cool. I know that many people are against techno and magic in the same game. I can understand why. When I was a young and unexperienced player 21 years ago. It was difficult enough to play my character in a classic world. But now that I have big experience in roleplay, classic worlds become boring. Complex worlds like Eberron are very interresting for me. Not only for the style mixing but also for the complexity of playing a pulp/dark/magic/adventure/action/intrigue mixing which is a real challenge for experienced Dungeon Masters and Players. But is Eberron a world for beginers ? I'm not sure.
Taurren 06-30-04, 06:23 AM	I think Eberron would be a good starting point for beginners as the high fantasy and over-the-top elements will help keep the "ooooh - ahhhh" factor at a high level. At the same time the underlying complexity of the setting, including the Dragonmarks, secret societies, lost civilizations and the recovery of nations from the Last War, make this a game where RPing and intricate plots and stories would fit in easily.
bahamut_0 06-30-04, 06:24 AM	Originally posted by EberronGuiGui But is Eberron a world for beginers ? I'm not sure. Me and my friends are about to find out, them being new to the game.
Willie the Duck 06-30-04, 08:59 PM	I like it too (and was surprised). Some things I like: The Crunch: Living constructs - Finally, metal things with hps! Since the dawn of 3e, I have bemoaned that the classic standard bearers of tanking, zombis and golems, suffer from hp envy. I understand the logic behind the "unliving creatures have no metabolism and thus have no constitution" thing, but I always thought they should have just relabled it "structural integrity" or some such thing (and boost it into stratisphere). Shifter - This race combines two things that 3e has desperately needed: good unarmed combatents and a use for lycanthropes. Werecreatures are, to me, as iconic as illithid and beholders, but the games really haven't had great roles for them (ooh, another cult of Malar that eats nearby farmers). Likewise I have found monks are a fretty shabby excuse for all the different feral, bestial creatures that fight with tooth and claw out there. Although the new psionics book which just came out is equally as good, these guys make unarmed combat cool! Dragonmarks - This is qualified. Except sentinal and healer, none of these seem to be that useful to adventurers. Sure, it allows some crossing of class boundaries (mark of handling allows you to influence animals without having a druid in the party), but the 4 feats 8 levels of PrCs and strict racial restrictions you need to get the most out of them is a heavy price for spells a wizard or cleric of equal level could cast, along with several more. That said, the idea is great! A fighter that can throw some feats to be able to heal himself mid combat, or a strict melee machine that can throw some magic missiles when they can't get close would be great. Eliminating the loss to the party of no one choosing a rogue, ranger or such helps alot. The Fluff: racial personality shifts - hospitable dwarves, good guy goblins and native american orcs are a great shift. More dusty, austere elves with exclusive rights to good guy undead is exceptionally lame, but the more whirling dervish elves elsewhere in the world make up for it. The psionic races that have a interdimensional feud finally look human (as opposed to the same old git vs gith vs illithid trip). Dragons that aren't sitting on treasure piles every fifty miles is a good change, although I would have made them glorified dinosaurs living in swamps or squabling siblings on a lost continent rather than the secret sages and witnesses to creation. Tone - after a decade of everyone trying to break the heroic fantasy feel of D&D going to gothic/punk, it is nice to see someone trying cliffhanger/noir. Don't let the elemental engines fool you, this isn't steampunk, it's Indiana Jones!
Brianish 06-30-04, 09:40 PM	The only thing I didn't like was the Halfling changes. (LOVE the new pseudo-voodoo elven culture).
LordofIllusions 07-01-04, 09:40 AM	I am going to have to play Devil's Advocate and say although Eberron is a good setting, I bought it yesterday, it DOES NOT IMO surpass ALL of the original settings. Each DnD setting is made to be different from the next setting. Just because a setting is medieval based with elves that do not like Dwarves and such does not mean that it is the same as the next one(It is YOUR campaign! If you want your elves to like Dwarves then do so.). Forgotten Realms is NOTHING like Dragonlance. Dragonlance although similar in some ways to Ravenloft is NOT Ravenloft. Greyhawk is NOTHING like SpellJammer, etc, etc. Just because something is NEW does not make it better than the OLD. And I say this w/o bias because I AM a proud owner of the new Eberron Campaign Setting it was the first thing I bought when my wife and I hit the mall yesterday. However JUST because I bought Eberron does not mean that all of my other DnD books are bad or worthless. Nope, it sits right on the shelf NEXT to the other Campaign Settings. So they have placed Action Points in Eberron, big deal. My campaigns were running fine w/o them as a matter of fact I have my OWN version of Action Points which I use as a houserule. So please stop with all of the "Eberron saved DnD" nonsense. DnD did not need saving , it sells MUCH better than ANY other role playing game that is out INCLUDING d20 Modern(Which had to be packaged with DnD materials such as the DM screen, etc. in order to get anyone to notice it.). ~~~
simon brumat 07-01-04, 12:58 PM	Tis a mighty book, where not worthy keith:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
Willie the Duck 07-01-04, 10:35 PM	Wow, LordoI, got some kind of small peice of wood on your shoulder there? Obviously there are going to be some fanboys here. It is, after all, a board dedicated to the campaign setting. Overall I have found the response to it (here and on the general boards) to be very moderated, as opposed to the "it's the greatest thing ever" vs. "Nothing has ever sucked so bad" onslaughts that have followed so many other releases. I don't think anyone claims it beets all the other settings hands down. After all, what people seem to like most about it is that it breaks the mold (which wouldn't exist, if the other settings weren't there to have formed one). As far as mold-breakers go, however, this one is actually something different. For most of the nineties, all the 'anti-standard fantasy' genres were gothic punk, suffuse with rebelling against some unspoken authority and suffusing us with a withering angst that steeped us in the meaningless of struggle (which makes no sense, since roleplaying is an escapist fantasy). To most people over 20, it was all so childish. Eberron, instead, has a noirish, Wild west feel that lets characters make a difference in their world and turns the old standards a half turn instead unsuccessfully trying to turn it on its head.
Shimura 07-02-04, 03:39 AM	I would have to sya the Eberron setting is excellent. Although it has all the regular D&D stuff that everyone knows & loves everything is just tweaked & changed slightly to make it new, vibrant & fun. Personally I love the dino-riding halflings & weird aberrant creating Daelkyr... For all those who say its rubbish:- Maybe you should have entered the competition then...
smrtgmp 07-02-04, 07:57 AM	Originally posted by LordofIllusions it DOES NOT IMO surpass ALL of the original settings. <snip> Just because something is NEW does not make it better than the OLD. <snip>However JUST because I bought Eberron does not mean that all of my other DnD books are bad or worthless. Nope, it sits right on the shelf NEXT to the other Campaign Settings. So they have placed Action Points in Eberron, big deal. My campaigns were running fine w/o them as a matter of fact I have my OWN version of Action Points which I use as a houserule. So please stop with all of the "Eberron saved DnD" nonsense. DnD did not need saving I'm not sure where all this hostility is coming from. No one on this thread claimed any of these things. Who said they were going to throw out all there old campaign settings? I certainly didnt. I've got hundreds of dollars of material, why would I throw it out? Why would anyone, for that matter? Who said it saved D&D? Again, not I. All I (and most of the other posters on this thread) said was that I like the new material. I've been playing this game for the last 18 years, and this is a nice change of pace. Finally, why are you getting so upidy about the action points? So you had something similar in your campaign, big woop. Concratulations. Have a :cookie:
smrtgmp 07-02-04, 08:04 AM	Originally posted by EberronGuiGui I know that many people are against techno and magic in the same game. Its not that I'm against the genre, its just rare for it to be pulled off well. Most of the techno-magic novels I've read have been sub par at best, and several video games fit this mold as well. There are, of course, exceptions. Final Fantasy VII is a prime example of the theme done right, and is, IMO, one of the best video game RPGs ever made.
LordofIllusions 07-02-04, 09:59 AM	Originally posted by smrtgmp Who said it saved D&D? The thread entitled: Eberron saved D&D for me! (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?threadid=233663[/url) There are also numerous posts throughout numerous thread which exist within the Eberron forums claiming that the aforementioned setting, "saved D&D." Again, I too am a proud owner of Eberron Campaign Setting(My players are generating their Eberron characters this afternoon.) and IMO Keith Baker did a wonderful job on the setting. The extent of Mr. Baker's imagination is worthy of praise. However, Just because I picked up Eberron the other day does not mean all of the sudden DnD was doing bad w/o the Eberron Campaign Setting. On the contrary DnD has ALWAYS sold very well for the 30 years it has been around. That is 30 years w/o Eberron which says something. The masses(Over a million players per year.) play because they are playing Dungeons and Dragons. DnD is unique simply because it is DnD NOT because Eberron is now ONE of the many campaign settings. All I (and most of the other posters on this thread) said was that I like the new material. I've been playing this game for the last 18 years, and this is a nice change of pace. I was not referring to YOU in particular. If you felt that I was attacking you then you have my apology. Finally, why are you getting so upidy about the action points? That would be "uppity" not "upidy" and actually I was simply stating that action points were around BEFORE Eberron came about. d20 modern(A game which I avoid at all costs.) uses them and they are ALSO in Unearthed Arcana(Yet another product which I have not purchased. I can make my OWN houserules.). Eberron is a VERY good campaign setting to run your games in but then again so are all of the others. So here is a nod of thanks not ONLY to Mr. Baker but to Mr. Greenwood, Tracy and Laura Hickman, Margaret Weiss, and any other campaign setting creators(Not to mention the TSR and later the WoTC core rulebook teams) whom I may have missed. ~~~
Willie the Duck 07-02-04, 08:39 PM	Well, now that we have that settled... Seriously, you have to expect some fanboys to be overzealous about anything that comes out. For me, Eberron did not save D&D for me, but the fact that something LIKE Eberron was able to come out of WotC proves to me that there are people there that are still trying to make this whole 30 year project work. Things like the splatbooks, 3rd edition reiterations of old campaign settings and other such stuff can come out ever month til eternity, and I am more than happy to argue whether they did a good job or not. But to have the people at WotC come up with (with someone elses imagination, but still) an entirely new setting, taking a right turn from the old ways, and going with it, taking a gamble on whether people would buy it (and you can bet that if it bombed, they would be seeking new employment), proves to me that not everyone there came from the CCG world of "let's churn out a new set with a slight twist before the public realizes they could do just as good a job" mentality.
smrtgmp 07-03-04, 07:43 AM	Originally posted by LordofIllusions The thread entitled: Eberron saved D&D for me I havent seen that thread. I was not referring to YOU in particular. If you felt that I was attacking you then you have my apology.I didnt feel that it was directed at me, as I never said any of the things you were referring to. I was merely curious where the animosity was coming from, as none of the issues you adressed were presnent in this thread. That being the case, this seems like an odd place to discuss them. Perhaps you should voice these opinions on the thread in question (although something tells me you already did). That would be "uppity" not "upidy" Yes, yes, I'm a horrilble speller. *Sigh* I never should have removed the "Proud founder of the Creative Spellers Coalition" from my sig. Eberron is a VERY good campaign setting to run your games in but then again so are all of the others. So here is a nod of thanks not ONLY to Mr. Baker but to Mr. Greenwood, Tracy and Laura Hickman, Margaret Weiss, and any other campaign setting creators(Not to mention the TSR and later the WoTC core rulebook teams) whom I may have missed. I agree that the other campaign settings are all excelent in there own right. I've been playing since elf was a class, for pete's sake, and I've enjoyed it quite a bit. Eberron is by no means a replacement for what preceaded it, I just think its a worthy addition.
Terrasque-Man 07-04-04, 03:07 PM	I love the new book/world and am rabidly assembling my campaign. keith rocks. my only criticism would be the population of ebberon seems far too large...with that many people, and a newspaper...wouldnt everything be explored? my plan to remdey this problem is to annihilate half the population of khorvaire with mournland-like-effects. BWUAHAHA
rexfelis 07-05-04, 05:20 AM	I am expecting a setting in which magic is not seen as very fantastic by the typical residents of the world -- what else could be their reaction when magic becomes just another tool to build civilization? I also expect that this setting will take a lot of modern day concepts and re-incorporate them into this world that has a facade of medievalism but may actaully be post-industrial revolution for all practical purposes. When magic is used as a tool for everyday transport and lighting streets, building a race of thinking machines, whats to stop the next logical step: magically powered factories that curn out mass-magical trinkets for the public at large? It is easy to imagine how Ebberoon is just a vehicle for decribing whatever the 20th or 21st century concept a module-writter is thinking of, then it's given a vaguely fantasy-skin of swords and longbows but the story is essentially the same as we might see in movies about modern times. I expect a Eberron is trying to be different by hiding familiarity behind artificial fantasy constructs. Trouble is, because of this, I am not fooled into suspending my disbeleif to enjoy this "fantasy"
Terrasque-Man 07-05-04, 11:50 AM	a harsh but just perspective. I can see your point, but any DM can undo any of the weaknesses you describe...here are some of my ideas to restore wonder and avoid post-industrial fantasy: cataclysm: reduce population by 2/3...the mournland spreads ever wider... effect: more exploration, waaay fewer cities, greatly reduced advanced equipment and supplies for purchase. a power surge in the weaving: eliminate lesser conveniences...the twelve turn their backs on the world... effect: as teh fabric of eberron begins to tear apart, all the "industrial" conveniences of magic become volatile and non-functioning (ie lights, farm gear, vehicles, communications) restores wonder of magic and eliminates modern feel...sets civilization back 500 years. call it the atlantis effect..just my approach to blasting eberron back to its true medieval roots. besides...if all taht industry is too much just move to xendrik. hahah.
smrtgmp 07-05-04, 12:32 PM	You know, I like the way magic has evolved in this setting. It always bothered me that in most fantasy settings magic has been this force that has existed in a vacume for millenia untold. It seems to me that minor conveniences like ever burning torches should be common place in a magical world. Even the various means of transportation dont seem too far fetched, since its only natural to use tools at your disposal to make life easier. And besides, it says on the very first page of the magic chapter that high level spells are still a rarity, so I dont see magic loosing much of its mystique. Just my 2 cp.
Jhaelen 07-05-04, 12:38 PM	Originally posted by Terrasque-Man a harsh but just perspective. I can see your point, but any DM can undo any of the weaknesses you describe...here are some of my ideas to restore wonder and avoid post-industrial fantasy: cataclysm: reduce population by 2/3...the mournland spreads ever wider... effect: more exploration, waaay fewer cities, greatly reduced advanced equipment and supplies for purchase. a power surge in the weaving: eliminate lesser conveniences...the twelve turn their backs on the world... effect: as teh fabric of eberron begins to tear apart, all the "industrial" conveniences of magic become volatile and non-functioning (ie lights, farm gear, vehicles, communications) restores wonder of magic and eliminates modern feel...sets civilization back 500 years. call it the atlantis effect..just my approach to blasting eberron back to its true medieval roots. Umm? If you introduce world-shattering events such as these, you might as well play in a different setting since it wouldn't resemble Eberron anymore. Besides: What 'weaving' are you talking about? Sounds like some 'Forgotten Realms'-stuff to me, there's no such thing in Eberron.
Terrasque-Man 07-05-04, 07:30 PM	no i really want to adventure through eberron...just a more ruined eberron...i think every campaign needs some earth-shattering events to stay interesting..then interpret their effects on gameworld characters and cultures.... as for the weaving..just using a generic term for a mana continuum/source of magic, which i guess is more related to the 3 dragons cosmology in eberron. hey..i just got the book a few days ago so pardon my ignorance! let me ride a dinosaur through the smodlering ruins of sharn!
LordofIllusions 07-06-04, 11:39 AM	Originally posted by smrtgmp I havent seen that thread. The is a link to said thread if you click on the underlined title. I agree that the other campaign settings are all excelent in there own right. I've been playing since elf was a class, for pete's sake, and I've enjoyed it quite a bit. Eberron is by no means a replacement for what preceaded it, I just think its a worthy addition. I agree wholeheartedly. ~~~
Jonduval 07-06-04, 05:56 PM	Actually, there was big discussion (http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=92648) on ENWorld about how LOW the population numbers in the ECS are. As presented, Korvaire is already severely underpopulated.
smrtgmp 07-06-04, 11:12 PM	Originally posted by LordofIllusions The is a link to said thread if you click on the underlined title. Having read that I can see how it would annoy you a bit. Especially when some of the people who said it saved D&D havent even seen the Eberron book yet! How can it save anything if they have no idea what it's like?:confused: Oh well...
Curious about Dark Sun 07-06-04, 11:55 PM	Originally posted by Brianish The only thing I didn't like was the Halfling changes. (LOVE the new pseudo-voodoo elven culture). Halfling changes? Tell me more, please!
smrtgmp 07-07-04, 06:52 AM	Some one with a name like curious about Dark Sun will probably like the changes to halflings. They are now dinosaur riding barbaric nomads. Not too far off from the wild halflings of Athas, other than the fact they dont eat their enemies.
LordofIllusions 07-07-04, 07:54 AM	Originally posted by smrtgmp Having read that I can see how it would annoy you a bit. Especially when some of the people who said it saved D&D havent even seen the Eberron book yet! How can it save anything if they have no idea what it's like?:confused: Oh well... Exactly. Once again I am EXTREMELY excited about starting a NEW campaign but I am no more excited about Eberron than I was about Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Forgotten Realms or any OTHER campaign setting I have DMed. ALL of it is Dungeons and Dragons and each campaign setting has its OWN color which contributes to the overall picture of the DnD role playing game. Thanks for your responses smrtgmp. Good luck with your Eberron campaign. ~~~
smrtgmp 07-07-04, 08:08 AM	Originally posted by LordofIllusions Thanks for your responses smrtgmp. Good luck with your Eberron campaign. My pleasure. And same to you.
Lord Arkhaven 07-07-04, 10:46 AM	I am finding that Eberron was well written enough to just read the thing cover to cover. Most other D&D books don't have that appeal and I usually use them as reference books. Eberron has a lot of story to offer. Definately an evolution to the product line.
LordofIllusions 07-07-04, 10:57 AM	Originally posted by Lord Arkhaven I am finding that Eberron was well written enough to just read the thing cover to cover. Most other D&D books don't have that appeal and I usually use them as reference books. Eberron has a lot of story to offer. :rolleyes: A highly OPINIONATED position. Personally the only parts I HAVE read thoroughly(Within the Eberron Campaign Setting) are those dealing with character generation directly(Certain parts of Eberron seem like it has been pieced together.). There is NO DnD rulebook that I have read from cover to cover and Eberron is NO EXCEPTION. ~~~
Lord Arkhaven 07-07-04, 11:07 AM	Originally posted by LordofIllusions :rolleyes: A highly OPINIONATED position. Personally the only parts I HAVE read thoroughly(Within the Eberron Campaign Setting) are those dealing with character generation directly(Certain parts of Eberron seem like it has been pieced together.). There is NO DnD rulebook that I have read from cover to cover and Eberron is NO EXCEPTION. ~~~ Oh my god an OPINION! I have sinned in the eyes of a dillhole! No duh it's an opinion dude. This is a messageboard. Yours is as valid as mine.
LordofIllusions 07-07-04, 11:17 AM	Most other D&D books don't have that appeal ..and.. Definately an evolution to the product line. ...are being passed off as definitive statements about Eberron. Perhaps a definition of "definitive" is required to help you see your mistake in making such statements, especially the second one. Main Entry: 1de·fin·i·tive Pronunciation: di-'fi-n&-tiv Function: adjective Etymology: Middle English diffinityf, from Middle French definitif, from Latin definitivus, from definitus 1 : serving to provide a final solution or to end a situation <a definitive victory> 2 : authoritative and apparently exhaustive <a definitive edition> 3 a : serving to define or specify precisely <definitive laws> b : serving as a perfect example : QUINTESSENTIAL <a definitive bourgeois> 4 : fully differentiated or developed <a definitive organ> 5 of a postage stamp : issued as a regular stamp for the country or territory in which it is to be used In closing, your statement about Eberron IS NOT definite, It IS and shall remain an opinion. Also name calling is AGAINST the CoC(Example: dillhole) since you appear to have ALSO missed that. My advice is state your OPINIONS as OPINIONS not DEFINITE FACTS. ~~~
WizO_Sith 07-07-04, 11:22 AM	Let's stay civil folks, I'd hate to have to close this thread.
Lord Arkhaven 07-07-04, 11:23 AM	You require intercourse. So I'll be leaving you alone now.
LordofIllusions 07-07-04, 11:23 AM	Thank you for intervening Sith. Btw, Did you ever get your players to make Eberron characters ? ~~~
LordofIllusions 07-07-04, 11:28 AM	Originally posted by Lord Arkhaven You require intercourse. So I'll be leaving you alone now. ANOTHER closet shot ? RIGHT AFTER Sith warned you about it too. :sad: ~~~
The Steve 07-07-04, 01:53 PM	Personally, I've found Eberron has rekindled my interest in, and enthusiasm for, DnD as a whole. I have enjoyed various other settings in the past - and played FR for quite a while but found the place had got a bit crowded with all the official output from WotC (not a criticism per se, just a personal feeling). Particularly I feel that the setting as written concentrates well on flavour, story and plot, with excellent avenues for exploring and expanding on them without to many mechanichal changes or additions and certainly no pandering to the 'munchkin' or 'power-rolling' style of gaming. Additions like Dragonmarks and prevalance of low-level magic items have little real game effect in terms of altering PC power but do massively enhance the potential for plot hooks and storylines. I'm also a big fan of the consistency of the world and its additions. Well done from me anyway.
WizO_Sith 07-07-04, 10:25 PM	The thread was warned, but one person decides to come along and ruin it for everybody. *Click*